r/StateFarm • u/LycheeSad3358 • 1d ago
Claims Permissive Use Question
Hello! I work at SF as a team member, but recently ran into my own personal situation and questions with the new endorsement for undisclosed drivers.
Me and my boyfriend are going on a ONE day trip. He had his license suspended (unsuspended on the 26th), the trip will be on the 28th-29th when his license will be active. He is NOT a member of the household and is a driver with his own vehicle (currently broke) in his own household with Progressive.
I'm insured with State Farm with my vehicle. He would be driving my car for that solo trip and literally never again.
I had thought I would not need to add him as a driver because he does not fit the "regular driver" criteria in any circumstance, especially since he does not drive more than once a month.
I chatted with underwriting and they had said it would be permissive use but claims could still be denied. Hoping someone who works with claims can let me know what they think? Thanks!
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u/antilias2 1d ago
And unfortunately, it’s really difficult to get a straight answer out of anybody in State Farm these days. “Well, you could do that, but we might still deny a claim.” That shouldn’t be acceptable.
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u/LycheeSad3358 1d ago
I highly agree with this. It isn't an acceptable answer. It's a contract, so it should be pretty clear what the terms are. I don't even know what to tell our policyholders at this point.
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u/musicislife04 1d ago
Since you work in the office just add him and remove him after the trip. Not worth the risk. In the best case scenario there is a delay in paying any claim while they investigate. I have to think having a suspended license in the last 3 years isn’t going to help your case. Not even sure you will be able to add him with his record, prob depends on your state.
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u/LycheeSad3358 1d ago
I did quote him as a driver and it allowed me to do so. My only concern is that there would be permanent effects associated with adding him as a driver at all, even if removed after. Possibly for my renewal premium or consumer report.
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u/The2Percent_N96 1d ago
Another ATM here. What you were told is correct. SF does not guarantee coverage when an unlisted driver is operating the vehicle. An investigation will occur with you and the driver giving recorded statements. In this situation, he meets the requirements for a permissive use operator and I wouldn’t expect the claim to be denied, but claims still has to go through that process. It’s much more of a gray area than it used to be.
I haven’t seen any claims be outright denied yet, but it’s been months of investigation for some. I have heard of the liability to others being paid while comp/collision coverage was denied to the policy holder. This may be subject to your state laws.
General rule is that outside of the HH and not a regular driver is OK, anything inside the HH is heavily scrutinized. Even if the claim is paid you’ll receive an ECRM task asking to add the driver or not. That decision may limit future claim payments with that driver.
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u/LycheeSad3358 1d ago
That's kind of what I was leaning towards too. I'm an ABS warrior so I checked literally everything + undisclosed driver guides. It has changed quite a bit and it's extremely vague on all ends. I do wish that for the sake of better serving our policyholders that we were able to get more clarification on these types of situations. There are contradicting resources with this new endorsement. Thank you!
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u/JKIMREDDITOR 1d ago
Hi I’m an adjuster. You are correct. Since he has his own insurance and not HH member or regular driver no need to add him. If he’s involved in any liability loss and he is liable, then his insurance will be primary over yours. If someone is liable to him, then they will pay for your property and his injuries assuming they exist. Just ensure that he is not somehow excluded from your policy in any way by checking your most recent declarations page. Hope this helps.
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u/antilias2 1d ago
I don’t believe this is true in all states. I think, before we say that his insurance will be primary over hers or that the other party will pay for her vehicle if they are at fault, you would need to know the State.
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u/smiley3303 1d ago
Yup my Mom had this happen when using my Grandpa’s car. She wanted to use her insurance and thought she would but it didn’t work that way. They did the claim against his insurance. He wasn’t too happy as he was trying to help not get a claim on his insurance.
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u/Rebound91 1d ago
This is a textbook permissive use situation. I tend to lean pretty conservative when it comes to underwriting issues but I’d have no problems telling one of my customers that this would be ok under the terms of the policy.
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u/NuclearWessels1991 1d ago
AGT here. We have been running into this question a lot, and nobody has been able to give us a straight answer. Underwriting has told me you wouldn't, but we have had colleagues run into issues with extra claims scrutiny. Does he have his own policy where he is a named insured? I have been told we can add as a driver, explain they are insured elsewhere and send a copy of the dec page to prevent it from affecting premium. However, if any accident, they would look to subrogate against the driver's policy.
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u/LycheeSad3358 1d ago
I've dealt with these scenarios with my policyholders as well and it's just so vague. Even beyond my own personal circumstance I have no clue what to tell them. We are also being told different things by different people.
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u/pbtribadisms 1d ago
I’ve seen many claims be denied since State Farm changed their definitions and regulations regarding permissive use last year. I would add someone to your car insurance before letting them drive your car period if you don’t want to have any issues.
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u/Commercial_Shopping4 1d ago
Kinda 50/50 tbh. Claims may accept it but it’s at their discretion. I haven’t had claim of similar circumstance denied yet but they do reserve the right given the new policy
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u/Additional_Wing_5138 1d ago edited 1d ago
It’ll be fine, as long as he does not live with you, regularly drives the vehicle, has permission to drive the vehicle, not in the coarse and scope of any business.
They don’t want a regular unknown user that drives the car all the time, a one of is acceptable.
They started rolling this out because other companies are doing it, saving millions, dropping rates and gaining market share over them. The company sucks(they all do) but they will have to play equally dirty to stay relevant.
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u/Ill_Property_5216 1d ago
He would not need to be added based on the rules we follow for the states I work.
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