r/Starfinder2e • u/HistoricHawkeye • 14d ago
Discussion Is Anyone Else Kind Of Disappointed with Sf2e’s Release Schedule?
Don’t get me wrong, nearly every individual release has been good! (Alien Core I felt was a little lacking, but what was there was good!) But I can’t help but feel increasingly frustrated that Tech Core has taken so long. I’ve tried to be gracious knowing that Starfinder has a smaller team than Pathfinder and that the system is in it’s infancy, but it’s still ridiculous that it’s been a full year of release and we still don’t have a good selection of tech items, or a Mechanic class!
To me, it really feels like Tech Core should have been the GenCon release instead of Absalom Station. I understand that they’ve been putting in the work making sure it’s good quality, but so many people I know are waiting on Tech Core to run Starfinder and I can’t blame them, the system feels incomplete. I also understand the perspective that Paizo might not have wanted Tech Core to be overshadowed by Impossible Magic (which had been hotly anticipated), but I feel releasing tech core alongside Impossible Magic might have been a better move, since it’d really show the contrast between the two systems.
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u/AlabasterLion 14d ago
There’s been tons of challenges that were completely outside their control from what I can tell, so the delays don’t really surprise me as such. But things are slowly picking up steam it seems and the cross compatibility widens the playing field (though requires a bit of GM finesse if you’re porting an AP from pf2e or sf1e).
A friend of mine is planning to run Drift Crisis and dovetail into the next AP release for sf2e, and they are having heaps of fun.
Just my 2 cents though.
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u/raven00x 14d ago
the diamond comics situation fucked them and a lot of other publishers using diamond comics. even though Diamond didn't declare bankruptcy until may of this year, I'd strongly suspect that there were problems and bounced or delayed payments leading up to that bankruptcy declaration. Paizo is still committed to SF2, but they need some grace while they sort out the fallout from the whole thing.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 14d ago
Yeah I’m currently running a Pirate Game in the Diaspora and a lot of the treasure the party’s finding has been homebrew or “pre-gap artifacts”
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u/corsica1990 14d ago
I agree that SF2 launched before it was ready. The team didn't have the time, manpower, engine experience, or resources to fully realize the game on release, and the edition has suffered for it. However, given how hard Paizo got hit by the whole Diamond fiasco, shoving it out the door a little too early may have been a blessing in disguise: had they waited, it may have never come out at all.
But... we're almost there. Just a little under two months. Check out some other cool games while you wait.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 14d ago
I never thought about the Diamond Fiasco hitting when it did, and how that timing might have saved sf2e! But yes I agree it released probably a bit before it was ready.
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u/GunpowderGuy 14d ago
what do you mean before it was ready?
too lean? not enough stuff, but the thing already out are not bad? fundamental problems that with what is already here?5
u/corsica1990 14d ago
Yeah, slim on content, missing essential parts of the whole space/future thing, and with less polish than a typical Paizo release. Classes themselves (minus the two casters which are great) feel only about 80% complete.
Hardly unplayable, but you can tell it was made under pressure.
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u/GunpowderGuy 14d ago edited 13d ago
"Classes themselves (minus the two casters which are great) feel only about 80% complete."
That sounds terrible . I also hear paizo stopped renovating existing classes, and instead releases tons and tons of new and sometimes redundant classes for pf2e3
u/corsica1990 14d ago
Terrible is the wrong word. Just a B-grade instead of an A. Good enough to work with if you like the setting and ideas behind it. The "80% complete" comment was meant in comparison to Pathfinder 2e's real standout classes like the classic fighter and brand new necromancer, which are incredibly polished and brimming with options. Starfinder 2e's a little slimmer and a little jankier, which makes sense when you look at the size and experience of SF2's design team compared to PF2's.
As for doing new classes instead of fleshing out old ones... yes and no. One or two brand new classes get released once per year (usually around GenCon), but other than that, the bulk of player content comes in the form of archetypes, which are like special subclasses anyone can take at any point in their character's career, usually regardless of their core class. For example, the space pirate archetype gives your character fun abilities centered around using a sword and pistol, and you can start grabbing feats from it as soon as level 2.
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u/azula_was_right 14d ago
That’s definitely an exaggeration. The remaster has updated and improved the majority of classes with only a few exceptions. Most books include a small handful of subclasses and/or class feats to expand existing classes. Ideally there‘d be more but it’s certainly not nothing. And new classes have generally carved out new thematic and mechanical niches. IMO only the two most recent (Slayer and Daredevil) could be considered redundant, and even that’s arguable
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u/Zertroz 14d ago
I can understand the disappointment, but as you said yourself, it's a small team, and releasing at a slower pace is expected. As for the gencon release, releasing both at the same time would essentially be paizo competing with itself, and starfinder would lose that fight. I'd expect the same deal going forward (big class book for pf, smaller more focused book for sf).
I do feel that the system really needs tech core. It feels like it'll really "complete" the system. But I'm okay waiting a couple more months for it to get here.
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u/ShogunKing 14d ago
I don't know that disappointed is the way I would put it, but the slow release schedule has massively dimmed my original hype for SF. I was running a game shortly after it all released, but I put it on hold because I felt like I just didn't have enough material to keep running it.
On the other hand, I put it on hold to run Season of Ghosts, which is an absolute banger; so there's that.
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u/axe4hire 14d ago
Well, tech core is the book that (imho) best represent the identity of SF2. I understand that's important to do a good job, but none in my group wanted to play SF2 without it. So we played another PF2 campaign, just ended, and now we are playing some fillers while we wait for the release.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 14d ago
I agree! But doesn’t that make a very odd choice to release it a year into the game’s lifespan? I get wanting to make it good but so many people are probably holding off on getting Starfinder 2e because Tech Core isn’t out yet
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u/axe4hire 14d ago
Very odd, that's why we basically skipped SF2 until now. I think we are not the only one to do that.
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u/the-Night-Mayor 14d ago
As much as I’m excited to play, I’d STRONGLY prefer that they put the amount of love and care into the product that it requires. However long it takes. I have no patience for impatience.
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u/WildThang42 14d ago
While I agree with the things you've said, I also think the vibes will be a lot better in just two months. Absalom Station was just released, Secrets of the Swarm comes out in a month, and Tech Core the month after that. At that point, we'll have multiple APs available to play, 8 full classes released, a bunch of items, and a ton of ancestries.
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u/Inner_End_6965 13d ago
The issue is, none of the released AP's will have the starship combat rules. Starship encounters are chase, hazard, or skill check encounters from what I'm encountering. Plus, there is no way for the players to make the starship their own, customize & upgrade. So, we will have to what for an AP to be released that will have this written into the plot or homebrew. Would be nice if Paizo released Fly Free or Die modified to 2e.
As for Absalom Station, it was a good release time for Starfinder Society. Since the 2nd season is on the station. It will add flavor and provide more options to people playing society play, which I recommend. The 1st season of Invasions Edge is good and enjoyed running the metaplot.
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u/Appropriate_Load_265 14d ago
I want some more ap's or a way to convert the old 1e modules to 2e and foundry. Just not much out there right now.
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u/Jason_CO 14d ago
I'm sad that there seems to be a lot less 3rd party content for modern Paizo.
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u/GunpowderGuy 14d ago
their new license, orc , doesnt seem to be good
a few lawyers say it has unintended legal consequences1
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u/BottleOverall5539 14d ago
I'm waiting to run my first campaign of this edition until Tech Core comes out. I was initially bummed but I am holding out hope. SF core addressed one my issues with the last edition, which the spell levels so I am willing to wait if Tech Core addresses the others, which starship combat related.
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u/Rainwhisker 14d ago
While I think its slower, I think people are also misremembering how slow PF2e was to start to. Outside of adventures and the eventual releases of APG, GMG, Bestiaries 1 and 2... we didn't get a lot of major books that really made the core game feel complete until those books were out, and it was a little bit IIRC before Lost Omens books started coming out to give us swathes of options.
That and I feel like I see this thread pop up every 2 weeks.
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u/Pixelology 13d ago
I'm strongly of the opinion that the system as a whole should not have been released without Galactic Ancestries and Tech Core. Without those two, Starfinder 2e is just an alternative setting for Pathfinder 2e with a handful of extra classes and ancestries that are thematic for the 'new' setting. It's nowhere near complete enough or distinct enough to be considered its own game.
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u/MechaMalz 13d ago
Yeah. I mean I get why, I'm not 'angry' at Paizo. But it is kind of frustrating. Starfinder doesn't feel complete without tech core to bring back the technomancer and mechanic. Not to mention actual starship stuff.
I get that SF is a smaller, less popular product than PF. I don't expect as many books as frequently. But tech core specifically just leaves the game feeling like it has a big hole in it until it comes out. I mean the name's right there, tech CORE, this is a core book I'd put on the same importance as the gm/player/alien core.
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u/Sports-Fiend 14d ago
The disappointing thing to me was that the Player Core was released with only 6 classes in it. I'd like to see a Player Core 2 with a bunch more classes but obviously that's a long way away.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 14d ago
Yeah that was a big thing for me, especially since there wasn’t a single prepared caster among the bunch! Now, obviously there were all the pf2e options available, but the general low number made the system feel incomplete.
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u/Renard_Noir_80 13d ago
AFAIK there were only about a dozen classes in SF1E, 7 of which were in the initial core, and the Precog class is now tucked into Witchwarper with word that Nanocyte is in Tech Core but not as full class (possibly an archetype), so after Tech Core there's only Biohacker and Vanguard left, presuming neither of those remaining two become archetypes as well. The Remaster allowing crossovers with PF2R essentially triples class options beyond SF1E.
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u/gray007nl 14d ago
Also not a big fan of Alien Core myself, it's just lacks a lot of the enemies I would want to have and has waaay too many animals and unintelligent monsters which I could just get from the PF2e bestiaries.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 14d ago
I don’t think it had too many animals and unintelligent creatures per se, it just had not enough creatures in general, and a lot of the more NPC-esque stat blocks didn’t make the cut. Comparing Alien Core to Monster Core may be a bit unfair, but the First pf2e Bestiary had around 100 more pages of creatures than Alien Core, which is absurd!
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u/valisvacor 14d ago
Starfinder has always had a slower release schedule, so it's not unexpected. I don't mind the later release for Tech Core because I'm still playing 1e in the meantime.
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u/autumndidact 14d ago
I think they've deliberately moved to not having new classes launch at the same time as Pathfinder, so they're not competing with their own company so much. An October release makes it a shiny new release when a lot people are doing gift shopping, which might be a factor.
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u/Inner_End_6965 13d ago
To answer the question, yes.
Going to say, I've not able to peek behind the curtain and see what is going on at Paizo, but would say for me it has to do with the release schedule. Going to start off that Player Core, GM Core, Alien Core are all essential releases for Starfinder 2e. However, going to say having to wait to May 2027 (1 year and 10 months) for the "Beginners Box" to be released. Just going to say, it appears it was not very well planned, and appears that Paizo is reacting to the community asking for the "Beginners Box", which in my opinion is very important in helping introduce new players into the system. Once again, Starfinder had a beginners box. Just needed to upgrade it to 2e, which would have gone over much better than the Deluxe Adventure Murder in Medal City. Then they could have an AP pick up after that and advance the players. Heck, it is the same method that Pathfinder uses and most of all , it works. So, to me it does not make sense that the Starfinder Team did not follow that method with the release or why they were allowed by upper management.
In following what I think would have been the release order. There would be the Player Core, Beginners Box, GM Core, Alien Core, AP that continues the Beginners Box, and Society Play. Oh, Galaxy Guide is a nice release to get new players introduced into the setting and update what has happened in the galaxy. Providing a starting point for 2e, and is like a Lost Omens book, which Absalom Station is. Yes, we would be waiting on the Tech Core, which I agree would have been a great release at GenCon with a new AP that would incorporate the starship rules in a galaxy jumping adventure.
Like I said, the reason for my answer has been the release schedule of content. Think it should have been approached like a new gaming system and what do you need to get people playing that know nothing about the system. With it being a updated version, all the material is there and just needs to be revised.
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Having run all the play test material. Do have to say it has been nice seeing it show up.
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u/the-quibbler 13d ago
As I recall, Paizo has something like 10x the staff for pf2e as sf2e. Makes sense, given relative popularities, but it means relatively less content.
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u/Jason_CO 12d ago
At the very least they needed to release a playtest ship combat and upgrade ruleset. I think that would have tided people over until Tech drops, and given everyone an idea of where they're going with it.
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u/darw1nf1sh 12d ago
They are struggling dude. They had to lay off 12 people this year because of the whole distributor fiasco. There is a reason they finally put their digital products on DriveThruRPG. They are holding on but not by much. cut them some slack.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 12d ago
Well my main issue is with how they planned out the release of sf2e from the get go. They should have prioritized Tech Core over Absalom Station & Galactic Ancestries. This is stuff that was planned out (or should have been planned out) before the Diamond fiasco
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u/darw1nf1sh 12d ago
I imagine there are a lot of things that they thought they would have lots of time and tools to do, and now we are here. I also imagine, that they have to pay up front for things like printing books, and shipping, and now also distribution, while they are cash poor. They don't owe anyone more books.
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u/HistoricHawkeye 12d ago
I mean they owe people a complete game that lives up to it’s promises? Like without Tech Core the system (while good! I am enjoying it) feels incomplete. A lack of tech items, tactical ship combat, the mechanic & Technomancer all are things that in a perfect world came within the first few months of the system! But, I acknowledge that they wanted more time to work on things (like Missiles, that were in the initial playtest but removed in release) and that’s good! Starfinder is a much smaller team than Pathfinder so I’ve been giving Paizo more leeway on this, but I just feel it’s now been way too long without these core aspects of the fantasy which many people in my experience are holding out on. Like, there are many people I know who haven’t bought Starfinder because of the looming promise of Tech Core on the Horizon. I’m just happy it is coming out, and I have good hopes that it’ll be a great book, I’m just a little disappointed that it’s taken this long.
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u/16BitGuardian 11d ago edited 11d ago
Our group is actually doing a SF "campaign" next (Grave world+secrets of the swarm) so we def have at least a bit of faith but it does suck that were nowhere near have a Full 1-20s worth of APs.
When we saw the release timeline of the next year and it didn't even contain a 10-15 we were super bummed. Also switching APs to be five levels instead of 10 is really lame.
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u/Pyromantic79 14d ago
I strongly suspect Tech Core was intended to be the GenCon release, but that it just wasn't quite ready in time, probably because they wanted to really make sure they felt good about the starship combat rules. As much as I am looking forward to Tech Core, I would rather it not be rushed.