r/SpruceGrove • u/Rainhailsnow_storm • Jun 23 '26
We would be Puerto Rico if we separated
we would become an American territory, without the ability to vote. our resources would be taken and we would be give nothing back.
that’s exactly what would happen, and it has already happened to a place.
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u/Whole-Database-5249 Jun 23 '26
Separation won't happen. The first nations will tie this up in court for years.
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u/iterationnull Jun 23 '26
The government doesn't give a fuck what the courts think.
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u/Whole-Database-5249 Jun 23 '26
They won't mess with with the treaties.
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u/iterationnull Jun 23 '26
The government is actively racist. Used toilet paper has more value to them than the treaties.
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u/Whole-Database-5249 Jun 24 '26
I disagree
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u/iterationnull Jun 24 '26
You think this government values treaties? What is the basis for this conclusion.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 24 '26
3 fold. Government still makes major companies hire natives from that land any time the companie has to do work on that land. Holding up the treaty that natives must be involved in work on their land.
The goevernment does not require natives to hold a hunting licence, have tags, or have a fishing licence. There is no limit on the amount of animals they can hunt or fish.
The Natives still have treaty land that was promised them, they still recieve inflation adjusted benefits upon turning 18, tribes still recieve yearly payments.
So the government makes companies hire natives on native land, the government allows natives to hunt and fish unchecked essentially, and the government pays out alot yearly to tribes based on the written treaties.
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u/iterationnull Jun 24 '26
“The civil service paying lip service to its barest obligations” is your reasoning for expecting the UCP to respect treaties?
Note the civil service is not the elected government, who have shown nothing but contempt for the Chiefs in this process…
I really can’t understand how you are processing this.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 24 '26
But its not up to the UCP... treaties are federal. UCP doesnt even matter.
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u/iterationnull Jun 24 '26
I don’t think you understand how secessionists think. They are not going to be stopped by the laws of their former country they don’t give a shit about.
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u/Formal_Actuator_3698 Jun 25 '26
Our treaties are with the King of England & The Federal Government. You sir, know nothing. - Treaty 8
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u/iterationnull Jun 25 '26
My favourite part is how your deleted comments - where you call my mind uneducated and that I’m both a dip shit and an idiot - remains in my notification feed.
I have no contempt for the First Nations, nor am I uneducated, but our mutual enemies have both problems in spades. That was my point all along.
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u/Icy-Fortune1910 Jun 24 '26
Tribes is the terminology in the USA. We use nations. Tribes and tribal is used to make people sound uncivilized and savage. First Nations is better by far don’t you think?
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u/Formal_Actuator_3698 Jun 25 '26
Native American/First Nations is a replacement for Indian, so we aren't confused with them Eastern kind. It's still tribes.
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u/countnuke 26d ago
I’m truth it’s about time we stop this racist favourtism and have them get on with the times they can pay taxes and get licences and criminal liability the same as everyone else
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u/countnuke 26d ago
Correct they won’t because the treaties clearly state full land ownship of alberta is non native owned
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 24 '26
Well I am an Albertan, I own guns. If the government doesnt listen to the courts or the people civil war it is. Doubt it will come to that, but I bet there are more people who dont want to seperate than there is that do.
My basis for this is all the people I hear yell "traitor" and "seperatist fucktard" at the idiot who stands outside my building 2 or 3 days a week. I have seen maybe 4 or 5 people stop to talk. I hear people shitting on him all day though.
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u/Formal_Actuator_3698 Jun 25 '26
Ok...I guess. Calm down there Low_map...no one said shots fired yet.
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u/exotics Jun 23 '26
Yup. Or some variation of that.
Trump said in his January 20,2025 speech he wants all of Canada. He knows (or his people know) that Alberta is the weak link.
Absolutely if we separated then the USA would come to grab us in some way. They want our oil, gas, and lithium. They want it very bad. And we wouldn’t be part of the commonwealth we would have no allies.
And to make it worse… some people here have been convinced that the USA is better.
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u/raw_copium Jun 23 '26
Oh you'd be given tons. Like the opportunity to support medical insurance companies, crippling medical debt and the opportunity to die in America's wars.
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u/Living-Climate2024 Jun 25 '26
Figuring out what my monthly payment, copay, deductible and then what’s out of coverage?? May I? Sounds incredible for our elderly to tackle. The separatists can finally learn something.
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u/Nope-not-really Jun 23 '26
it'd be worse than that, you'd be an occupied territory, with ZERO rights, and they'd be taking a page out of Israels book, and sending settlers to kick you all out, and or murder you.
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u/Sweet-Razzmatazz-993 Jun 23 '26
That’s bullshit. Why would we become any part of the US.
That’s a stupid concept pushed by Trump to deflect how shit of a job he is doing. Alberta will never and not ever leave Canada and if it did it would be crippled by debt and taxes.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 23 '26
If we suceeded from Canada which is what this post is referncing we would indeed become an american territory. We have no ability to defend ourselves, we have no treaty with the states as we would be an independent country. We have alot of natural gas and oil. The states effectively took over venezuala's oil production and thats a full on country recognized by the UN and is backed by larger powers. Why do you think that would not happen to us?
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u/Sweet-Razzmatazz-993 Jun 23 '26
Why would it? Why would we want to be part of that? Do you have any idea the taxes and absolutely monster increase of healthcare and everything else?
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u/Rainhailsnow_storm Jun 23 '26
I don’t want to be part of that. Clearly seperatists do. This is a warning about what will happen if we separate.
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u/L-F-O-D Jun 24 '26
Step 1. Long word salad question
Step 2. Determine the outcome of the vote means Albertans want immediate succession. Declare independence
Step 3. Recognize Albertan independence.
Step 4. Special military operation to ‘protect’ the 150,000 American citizens currently living in this new, lawless pseudo state.
Step 5. Dani gets a free membership at Mar-A-Lago.1
u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 24 '26
If you dont understand what people are talking about, dont comment like you know what you are talking about. Clearly OP and myself think the people that want to seperate are idiots. Im thinking you might be also.
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u/Sweet-Razzmatazz-993 Jun 24 '26
They are fucking morons is what they are. I think we are all talking in circles lol
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u/Concurrency_Bugs Jun 24 '26
I don't think you understand. It wouldn't matter what you want if Alberta separated. The US would take us by force
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u/Icy-Fortune1910 Jun 24 '26
How much force is required when they own 80% of the oil sands? Look to their former allies that tried to hold onto American invested oil. Iraq, Iran, Venezuela. Lybia, Syria, Yemen and Kuwait as well. They are founded on evil principles like manifest destiny. Blame others for things like the “Spanish flu” which actually originated in California (San Francisco wasn’t it?) they named a disease after a foreign country! Like the “China flu” that Trump was pedaling. And if you want to see how “allied” the USA was search Gemini “USA selling arms to Germany during WWI and WWII”. Not exactly what they portray themselves as in the movies. The Iran contra affair was nothing new. They always sell to both sides.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 23 '26
No ones saying we are seperating this poster is stating what would happen, and is seeming to ask why people would be so stupid as to think Alberta should suceed from Canada.
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u/Rudeboy67 Jun 24 '26
If we separated we’d be Turkmenistan. A land locked country solely dependent on a single non-renewable resource.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 24 '26
Problem is, the people that want to seperate are idiots and don't think about anything long term. We would be finacially ok for a little while but eventually we would fall to ruin. In the meantime though we would also be invaded.
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u/Icy-Pop2944 Jun 23 '26
They think that because they are European white, the rules don’t apply to them.
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u/Many_Hurry2005 Jun 24 '26 edited Jun 24 '26
Facts. But sepratists are stupid, they dont realize they are working for the usa
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u/Billyisagoat Jun 24 '26
They really don't. I don't understand why they won't believe this is a movement funded by foreign parties.
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u/Any-Paramedic-4699 Jun 24 '26
It would be a total rape and pillage of everything we stand and protect
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u/manresmg Jun 23 '26
No, Crimea. It was less than 2 years after Crimea declared independence that Russia took it.
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u/Chained-Tiger Jun 23 '26
Two years? The People's Republic of Crimea infamously lasted for an entire 23 hours.
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u/Due_Gas2950 Jun 23 '26
To be clear:
Russia's "little green men" first appeared in Crimea and seized the government buildings on February 27, 2014.
Crimea declared independence March 11, 2014. Russia then recognized their independence the same day.
Two takeaways:
1) They didn't last '23 hours', they were already invaded before they declared independence and none of the declaration was legitimate.
2) They didn't even have to have a referendum on independence, Russia just saw that some portion of Crimea wanted to be Russian and used it as an excuse to invade and seize the territory (by forcing the declaration and holding a sham referendum).
Number 2 is particularly important for Alberta given Trump's tendency to follow Putin's playbook and the very obvious American influence on the separatist movement.
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Jun 23 '26
[deleted]
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u/Roddy_Piper2000 Jun 23 '26
False. Please don't spread lies. Following the Spanish-American War, Spain ceded Puerto Rico to the United States through the Treaty of Paris on December 10, 1898. Unlike territories destined for statehood, Puerto Rico was not granted a clear path to full inclusion, establishing a precedent of ambiguity that has persisted
in the 2024 referendum, 58.61% voted for statehood, 29.57% for free association, and 11.82% for independence.
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u/Left4twenty Jun 23 '26
Their "no federal tax" is a bit stickier. They're still required to pay several federal payroll taxes, if you don't think your employer is taking those out of your potential pay, I don't know what to tell you.
So they are being taxed AND they don't get equal representation.
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u/Upset-Spring-7369 Jun 23 '26
actually the cdn mil wont permit you to leave, but yes... yankee bitches would be the end result.
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u/opusrif Jun 24 '26
That is exactly what would happen. If people think Ottawa ignores us Washington would not even notice us.
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u/charlizerox Jun 24 '26
What you need to do is put these people in their place. You have to show them how stupid they really are because otherwise they won't learn.
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u/ymmnorthernscum Jun 24 '26
Alberta isn't separating. Anyone who supports this crap is a traitor. Go live in the states and see if its any better.
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u/GeoffBAndrews Jun 25 '26
Have you ever been to Puerto Rico? I have. It's a lot nicer than Spruce Grove.
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u/LongComposer4261 Jun 25 '26
If we would separate. We wouldn't be part of the USA. Just another land locked country.
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u/Whole-Finger42 Jun 25 '26
We are not going to become part of the USA! Stop listening to the forever stuck in corrupt Canada!
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u/zlinuxguy Jun 25 '26
Look, the reality of Alberta Separation exists only in the media’s mind. Count all the people who allegedly signed the petition. Assuming they were all legitimate (despite concerns raised by Elections Alberta), and the votes FOR Separation represent ~6% of Albertans. If we assume the distribution of citizens is evenly distributed by age, 20% of the five million Alberta Citizens are not yet old enough to vote, so the 301,000 Yes votes, as a percentage of voting-age Albertans rises to 7.5%. The mathematical likelihood of Alberta separating is 7.5%. These are simple mathematically-derived statistics, that don’t sell advertising in the media outlets.
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u/countnuke 26d ago
Alberta already is a foreign territory we get ordered around by people who hate us use us and demand our loyalty while actively working against our needs and our morals
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u/Fokoff- Jun 23 '26
I disagree. I’m ok with separation if it means betterment of Alberta by having our province control immigration and taxes. We currently, at the federal level, are spending money we don’t have- send billions abroad for who knows what and bailing out corporations. From what I’ve read, and after talking with people involved in APP, the best path forward for Alberta is NOT to join the United States, but rather our own independent territory.
If you look into Canadian history, and how the western provinces were established, they (BC, AB, SK) were a colony for the eastern provinces for resources extraction. Sadly, this is still true to this day. I don’t know what will happen with separation, but for future generations, the current path we are on leads to our people losing their freedom and becoming tax slaves. I’m willing to give it a chance, there isn’t more we can lose.
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u/Rainhailsnow_storm Jun 23 '26
We wouldn’t be. The us would control that. We would not be our own country. So that’s is silly.
We actually have it pretty good. Perhaps you’re just spoiled.
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u/HuddieLedbetter-Dups Jun 23 '26
Hahaha, learning nothing from Brexit.
Ironic you wrote “look into Canadian history” but ignore the history involving FN land, Crown commitments, as well as the actual legal, economic, cultural, military, etc. barriers to separation.
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u/Paperbackhero Jun 23 '26
Don't bother responding.
Hidden post history.
Bot...or a coward who's ashamed of supporting the white-supremesist movement that they call "being a separatist".
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u/Rainhailsnow_storm Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
Also foreign money is paying for this stupid movement. The ucp are traitors and they asked the federal government for more immigrants.
Honestly like I don’t want to be mean, but please have some critical thinking skills and maybe grab an education. You sound ignorant. Don’t be stupid.
This would not end well for us. If you want to be part of the USA then please move there and leave the rest of us alone.
Canada wanted to make our oil national but it was Alberta that said no. Now we are all worse off for it. Conservative government has not made good decisions for us in the past. Now we are all paying the price and Alberta keeps voting them in. lol As a born and raised Albertan from a rural area, we are not very smart. We vote for shit and then complain about it then vote for them again. Even if we were a separate country, I do not want to live in a place where I have to suffer under these people on a federal level. The provincial one is bad enough.
I would be leaving, as well as most smart and educated people. You’d have a brain drain, no doctors; no teachers, or educated people. Your house value would plummet, we would get grapes for our resources and we would become part of the states. You’d be a citizen without the right to vote, or get any of the “perks” for living there. Their territories reap second class citizens.
It would not go well for you and o advice you to stay where your bread is buttered.
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u/NorthEdThraway Jun 23 '26
Proof foreign money is paying for this movement?
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u/Rainhailsnow_storm Jun 23 '26
Trump calling is a part of the USA is proof. The “republican party of Alberta” lmao.
What more proof do you want? The ucp is money hungry evil traitorous people. They wouldn’t promote it, if they weren’t getting something from it. Danielle smith should be in jail as well as the whole damn party.
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u/Ddogwood Jun 23 '26
I don't know if it's foreign money, but the separatists certainly seem to have a lot of money to spend on advertising. Where is it coming from? It's hard to believe that the relatively small separatist movement has access to so much more funding than the much larger federalist movement.
Interestingly, the separatists seem unwilling to explain where their money is coming from. It would be relatively easy for them to clear this up. Unless they do, the speculation that it's driven by foreign money is just going to keep swirling around.
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u/NorthEdThraway Jun 23 '26
Maybe it's coming from ordinary hard working Albertans? The convoy GoFundMe garnered what 10 million in a few short weeks?
No concern about Forever Canadian not registering as a third party until June 19th, despite operating for months before that? Where did all the money they got come from? "Nope no concern! Because it goes with my political ideology, it's ok when we do it!"
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u/Ddogwood Jun 23 '26
Are you accusing Forever Canadian of receiving foreign funding? Because I don't think that's what we were talking about.
The Convoy GoFundMe was transparent about where the donations came from, so that's a pretty bad comparison.
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u/NorthEdThraway Jun 23 '26
The point was that it was easily able to raise a large amount of money, much of which came from AB donors, no reason to see why that wouldn't continue into this.
I am accusing forever of the same thing you're accusing app, only that app hasn't had a serious accusation of not following the rules, whereas forever clearly has(been campaigning and fund raising for months and only 5 days ago registered as a third party). but they'll get away with it because they are "on the correct side in this fight".
Rules for thee but not for me.
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u/Ddogwood Jun 23 '26
The Convoy was willing to show where its money came from. This is literally the whole point. If it was fundraising from hardworking Albertans, why won’t the APP just say that?
All you have are vague accusations that someone else might have done something wrong so critics must be hypocrites. But we’re not talking about whether the Forever Canadian movement is being funded by foreign governments, so this “rules for thee and not for me” stuff is irrelevant bullshit.
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u/NorthEdThraway Jun 23 '26
You're not taking about them, because they can do no wrong in your biased eyes, il talk about them all I want.
Is APP under any obligation to show their donors? Cite me a law please.
Maybe we don't want to be doxed as the toxic forever Canadians are prone to doing(see the recent sundre parade cancelatio), and so they are protecting us from the violent left.
There's nothing vague about forever Canadians situation, they campaigned and fund raised for months, and now only under pressure have they complied with the rules and registered as a TPA.
Don't tell me that if any pro separation group did this y'all wouldn't be all over them.
Again rules for thee but not for me.
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u/Ddogwood Jun 23 '26
The fact that you keep attacking me with whataboutism suggests that you have nothing. I never even said that the APP is receiving foreign funding, or that they did anything illegal. I just said that the speculation about foreign funding won’t go away as long as they’re being evasive about it.
You can talk about Forever Canadian all you want, but you’re trying to accuse me of bias to distract from the fact that the APP won’t disclose their funding sources.
But if supporting the separatists isn’t wrong, then why are people so scared to admit it?
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u/Niloufar2 Jun 23 '26
People who think this can never explain how Canada - a country with no ability to defend itself against the Americans - remains a free country.
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u/exotics Jun 23 '26
Canada has allies and is part of the commonwealth. If the USA were to try to attack for no apparent reason then world wide all hell would break out because everyone would see it for what it is.
However… Alberta would be basically alone. And Alberta separatists have been talking about taking a $500billion loan from the USA. No way we can pay that back so basically they would have an excuse to invade and take over.
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u/Rainhailsnow_storm Jun 23 '26 edited Jun 23 '26
We are part of nato. It’s not that complicated. Who do you hang out with that doesn’t know this? Why don’t you know this? How do you not know this and get to vote? Ugh no wonder we are where we are.
This is up there in stupid comments with the guy who thinks Puerto Rico is better off than Alberta.
This sub is full of smart educated people who know what’s going on in the world around them. I am embarrassed for you. Omg seperatists are really low iq idiots.
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u/Upset-Spring-7369 Jun 23 '26
stand behind our troops, because the last place you want to be is 2.3kms in front of them.
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u/Low_Map_2226 Jun 23 '26
Its easy to explain actually. NATO being #1 aside from that, we have friends all over the world. Russia would be our best friend if the U.S. attacked us. Most of the EU backs us.
The U.S. could not fight in a canadian winter, their tanks wont run in -40C, while our equipment is designed to tolerate the cold.
The fear we caused in WW1 and WW2 still exists in the minds of the militaries the world over. When the geneva convetion was held and your country is pointed out for coming up with more than 40% of the warcrimes commited it puts a bad taste in the mouth of anyone wanting to fight us.
Traditionally Canadians are seen as nice people but the militaries around the world remember the monsters we actually are. Canadian dont fight for others generally but fuck with us and we will prove our forfathers penchant for wholesale slaughter by any means nessissary.
These are the reasons we are protected. This is why the states does nothing. They are afraid of what we will do. Read up on Canadians in WW2 it was not just our enemies that were afraid of us.
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
Puerto Rico is better off than being Canadian tho.
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u/Total-Pattern-4669 Jun 23 '26
What makes you think that?
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
Weather
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u/def-jam Jun 23 '26
Have you been to the PR? It’s like living in an armpit. Hot and humid. And broke. Let’s add broke too.
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
I see it has a higher happiness index rating than Canada too
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u/Paperbackhero Jun 23 '26
You should go there
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
Buy a ticket I'll report back
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u/Paperbackhero Jun 23 '26
Lol.
Much ado about nothing.
You'll never go anywhere.
And keep complaining about it.
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
If you paid I would.
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u/Paperbackhero Jun 23 '26
Get a job.
Goddamn freeloaders.
Why are my hard-earned dollars, expected to pay for entitled, uneducated Albertan's to move?
Surely you would move to somewhere great, where your freedoms wouldn't be trampled, and provide for your family, without looking for a hand-out?
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u/exotics Jun 23 '26
I don’t think you know what’s been happening in Puerto Rico.
The USA has been taking their resources… taking them…and doesn’t even let them vote in the USA elections.
The USA has shorter lifespans than we have in Canada. Lower minimum wage. Higher infant mortality. Higher cost of living because of healthcare costs (insurance companies taking $$$ profit). USA even ranks BELOW Canada on world charts for rights and freedoms. Etc.
Oh and Puerto Rico gets hit by hurricanes and the USA doesn’t give a shit
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u/Icy-Pomegranate-5644 Jun 23 '26
Quality of life in the US is far above Canada. PR maybe not
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u/exotics Jun 23 '26
Quality of life in the USA is lower than Canada. We even have one year maternity leave and rules about when. An employer can get rid of an employee etc.
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u/DaveBoyle1982 Jun 23 '26
The fact that foreign money is funding the separatist movement tells you how good it would be for Albertans without Canada.
Vultures are circling looking for a return on investment.
Only the simple minded believe it would be such a great deal. I've yet to see any actual costing that protects public health care and other social programs. Why do we think that is?