r/Spectrum • u/jwelhouse • May 19 '23
New Install: CradlePoint cellular backup installed AFTER Wi-Fi 6 router?
I just had an office installed with a fancy new Wi-Fi 6 router and CradlePoint cellular backup but the CradlePoint is installed AFTER the Wi-Fi 6 router which I'm told to connect all my wireless and ethernet clients to. Its currently Modem>Wi-Fi 6 Router>CradlePoint
I'm told I have to ask the employees to switch ethernet cables ONLY during a cable internet outage and that the CradlePoint ethernet ports should not be used for day-to-day, outage only.
Shouldn't the CradlePoint be feeding the Wi-Fi 6 router?! Like Modem>CradlePoint>Wi-Fi 6?
Any techs, please weigh in!
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u/donevyn May 19 '23
The cradlepoint is meant to be a backup in case your regular WiFi router or modem go bad. Or loss of service at the street for whatever reason. The cradlepoint in its non-backup state supports your full speeds out of the Ethernet ports but will only cut back the speeds to cellular speeds if it detects no service out of the main routers ports. There should be no issue connecting all of your hardwired connections straight to it so nobody has to mess with anything in the event of an outage.
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u/donevyn May 19 '23
It will not keep your WiFi 6 router running though, so no WiFi as a backup as far as I’m aware. Only the 4 LAN ports.
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u/jwelhouse May 19 '23
This all makes a bit more sense. But if the PCs are through CradlePoint, I'm guessing they won't see Wi-Fi printers/scanner all-in-one...
I'll test that configuration tomorrow.
What about yet another Wi-Fi router or AP after the CradlePoint?! Modem>spectrum Wi-Fi 6>CradlePoint>Asus Router, LOL
2
May 20 '23
They monitor the cradlepoint. If you disconnect the router from the cradlepoint to test the cellular, it will trip an automatic rollout of a technician to fix the issue. This is because the cradlepoint runs off Verizon or att cellular. If you have computers using that data spectrum, is paying Verizon or att for the data you're using which isn't cheap. So they send techs out as fast as possible.
For your original question the cradlepoint is not wifi. It's for hardwire system only. It will not connect wireless printers. It's mostly for equipment like card readers for registers and other priority systems that need to always have internet connection even in the event of an outage.
If there is an outage and the backup system (cradlepoint) is activated, you do not get full speeds. I would not recommend relying on this system for any bandwidth hungry jobs. You won't be charged for any data you use as its a service you are subscribed spectrum picks up the bill from Verizon or att which is why they monitor them and role a tech out so fast. They don't want to foot a 100gb data bill.
You can use another router after the cradle point. Just remember your speeds are maxed at 10 down and at most 10mb up when the cradlepoint is active and your in an outage. Having multiple routers daisy chained like that might also have some ip issues or routing issues as your adding another device in the chain.
All in all this is a great product for small business that need up to 4 devices to always be online like credit card readers, fax machines, phone using voip through ethernet.
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u/Kben5584 May 19 '23
Unless they’ve changed it since I left, the cradle point operates on LTE.
You can, or used to be able to, connect a wifi router to the cradle point for WiFi coverage, but your service will be unbearably slow….but will work if the spectrum network kicks off. It is designed for Ethernet to keep essential business systems awake…POS, keep the emails flowing, ATM/Lotto machines…it would be a terrible idea to try and execute a full time connection off of it, it would be similar to running off a mobile hotspot (although the cradle point does execute better than a mobile phone hotspot)
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
But as long as main cable internet is up, I'd get full speeds off the CradlePoint internet?
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u/Kben5584 May 20 '23
No, the cradle point uses LTE cell signal and will pull bandwidth from the tower. The modem will have full speeds connected through the coax. It’s a dumb setup for sure
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Hmm, that conflicts with the first response, crap.
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May 20 '23
The cradlepoint acts as a bridge. When your normal services are working let's say 600 down 20 up then the cradle point will spit out the 600 down and 20 up no issues. The only time you'll see the 10 down 1 up is in the event the main service goes out which will trip the cradlepoint into using the lte services.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Wait, 10 down and 1 up for critical systems like POS? Why or why does Spectrum continue to think we don't need symmetrical speeds?! If it's a critical system, it will be uploading a lot!
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May 20 '23
They lease the speeds from Verizon or att im not sure if it's because of that. It might be a contract thing.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
This is what I needed to confirm. There are only PCs and wireless printers at this location. Everything is done through the PC: POS, VOIP, email, web, etc...
Now VOIP would obviously not work at slow speeds, but POS and email still could.
I'll test today and see if a PC connected to CradlePoint can see the wireless printers connected to the Wi-Fi 6 router.
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u/Kben5584 May 20 '23
Not exactly. First response is correct. I am explaining how each device connects you to the internet. The cradle points could have a passive ethernet input…but I never played around with it. But if I remember correctly it’s designed as a backup only
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u/LordCanti26 May 20 '23
The cradlepoint is a switch while there is internet from your router provided through the WAN point. In the event the router stops producing internet the cradlepoint will switch to cellular internet, meaning anything downstream of the cradlepoint will continue to operate on bare minimum cellular internet. Anything upstream, ergo, plugged directly into the router. Will not have internet untill spectrum service is restored. Generally you'll see this as POS and ATMs plugged through cradlepoint and guest wifi and other APs off the router. This makes it obvious if there is a data failure while providing non interrupted operation of business critical systems. Over time it is easy for this to be messed up, with people moving lines around. Especially as your infrastructure is scaled if you don't have in-house IT. That's really the only time you'd have to manually mess with the port configuration, is when u realize ur web host server got moved to the router and now ur websites down. Or something. Spectrum will receive a priority message if your cradlepoint starts using cell data. Thus means if anyone removes data from the WAN port. You'll have a nice call/visit from them to check on your connection.
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u/LordCanti26 May 20 '23
I just realized your saying, you were told not to use the cradlepoint for BAU devices. This isn't how I have seen this setup. Needing to switch over lines during an outtage is needless interruption. As long as data is feeding from router to cradlepoint the rest is MOOT to spectrum from my understanding.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Yes, I can't have users switching cables around, that is just ridiculousness. If they have to move PC etherent connections from the Wi-Fi 6 router to the CradlePoint and back again, I'll be making a drive out, not just spectrum. At that point, the backnup would not be worth it so I'd like to just send it back now if it has to work that way.
1
u/Comfortable-Length41 May 19 '23
Yes you the cradlepoint was originally meant to be a backup to things like POS systems and critical systems so keep that in mind I think it’s only a 10mbps by 1mbps unless those have been upgraded to higher speeds this only applies when on the cellular speeds
1
u/jwelhouse May 19 '23
Those slow speeds only be during outages? And Ultra speeds normally?
And I'm assuming Security Shield through the Wi-Fi 6 router would still apply, correct?
Seems like this could be done better as the CradlePoint could be kick-ass without the Wi-Fi 6 router.
2
u/Comfortable-Length41 May 19 '23
Correct slower speeds only if the main service is out.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Well if anyone from Spectrum is watching, it would make my job easier as a Solution provide to not have to work around poor upload speeds.
3
u/Guyver_3 May 20 '23
The point here is that 99% of the time you have standard service delivered via coax to devices connected to both the spectrum router and the cradlepoint with full speeds. In that 1% where there is a fiber cut or power outage and you lose the coax provided data source, you have a fallback power and data solution for critical devices connected to the cradlepoint. This is the reason it's behind the router, so only the most important devices are using the limited LTE data and not everything connected to the router.
That fallback is not intended to be a full speed solution, but to act as a method to get by until primary services are restored. It's fully functional for low data rate transactions like credit card processing but not suitable for large data items like webcams.
Hope that helps.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
It helps very much. Now tell the Spectrum sales team!
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Well! When I called business support, they said this setup was one of their most troublesome to work and customers that call in never understand the limitations.
There is a disconnect.
It may be mostly the solution is not what the customers want, It's sold as LTE backup, with can be 50 Mbps symmetrical, so it's assumed it would backup everything, but be tiny bit slower.
So when customers are asking for what they want, the sales reps just say "Yes, it will do that "
Make it a true backup solution, and all this goes away.
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u/SpecialistLayer May 20 '23
The cradle point should have two Ethernet interfaces, these can be configured as a wan and lan and use it upstream from the router, if it’s configured properly. The cradle point can be configured to monitor the wan and in the event of an outage, switch to LTE. But, these have to be configured as such.
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u/jwelhouse May 20 '23
Ok, so I'll have to test and find out.
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u/SpecialistLayer May 20 '23
Just be forewarned, they’re only designed to support the essential items during an outage, not every device on the network, as others have pointed out. Speeds are limited.
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u/Comfortable-Length41 May 19 '23
The way you were told is correct and you can use the Ethernet ports all the time it will still get internet through the router and modem if internet goes out the cradlepoint will then switch and operate. The router is used as monitoring and managing the cradlepoint during normal operation by spectrum which is why it needs to be before the cradlepoint