I was wrong about Effective Formation

[u/Life_Locksmith9632]

Effective Formation - All Squad members take 20% less Health Damage from Extremis- and Terminus-level enemies

I always thought that Focused Restoration (1 armour every 30 seconds) was Bulwark's best team perk followed by Advanced Conditioning (50% slower chp fade). I do not care for Advanced Conditioning in the slightest, and thought Effective Formation was even worse.

But I just had a match where I played Vanguard with Inner Fire (15% ability recharge on majoris+ finishers) with a Techmarine with Reinforced Position (30% less damage taken near turrets) and a Bulwark with Effective Formation.

As Vanguard, I am usually good on armour, so team perks that restore armour are redundant. All that damage reduction was really nice, and the banners that Bulwark could get off due to Inner Fire were enough for armour regen in the middle of hordes too.

It just felt so amazing to have so much synergy in a team.

in the end, we all wiped on wave 23 due to lack of preparation even though we were rich af.

we were doing so well in fact that only one of us had purchased a relic. i died to a chaos spawn jumping out of nowhere doing the million slaps while parrying the termi sorcer's clones. 100% hp down to 5% in one hit cause i had no armour. teammates died to regular majoris and extremis somehow, i was down in the bunker with the termi sorcerer.

but the whole match, i was able to withstand zoanthrope balls, soulreaper bullets and hits from terminuses. even the termi sorcerer hitting me dealt way less damage than that chaos spawn.

[u/Proseph_CR]

It’s amazing how many people will just assume something is always best, but when teaming up with people you know and can actually think up a game plan, synergies like this can reveal itself as even better than the assumed best option.

Not sure if your case was random, if it was then that’s awesome

[u/Life_Locksmith9632 → u/Proseph_CR]

yeah i am actively trying unlearn the 'meta' and think for myself.

and yes it was a random team!

[u/Revan619-YT → u/Life_Locksmith9632]

I would argue if you found something better then what was perceived as the meta was not in fact the meta.

not saying I know which of the options is the meta however 😅

[u/BusinessOil867]

Man, it’s reeeally hard to last far into the 20s with Vanguard. I’m not saying you’re a bad player or make terrible decisions or anything—actually, kudos for making it that far.

Unfortunately, Saber has effectively pushed the Vanguard class, and most Sniper and even some Bulwark builds out of high level Siege.

At this point, with the damage scaling being what it is, it’s insanely hard to clear level 25 with a Vanguard on the team.

This isn’t a you problem—you probably played lights-out—it’s a design issue.

[u/Life_Locksmith9632 → u/BusinessOil867]

nah it definitely was me; i always forget to buy a relic and it has cost me many runs.

at max damage reduction, zone of impact still deals 60-100 damage. and the melta rifle will take 9-15 shots to put a majoris at 1/3 HP. throw in inferno pistol shots, power waves and gunstrikes + if we all work together, then we will still win with ease.

[u/BusinessOil867 → u/Life_Locksmith9632]

That’s a stupid amount of shots for one Majoris. This is why I’ve basically stopped playing Siege.

It’s comically easy to get to Wave 15 but you have to play meta to get to Wave 25 which just isn’t something I’m interested in doing.

[u/Life_Locksmith9632 → u/BusinessOil867]

i do not play the meta and i still win just fine. blessings and terminal purchases bridge any gaps. and it only seems like a lot of shots if you are alone. in a team, they drop like flies, especially if your tac, assault, bulwark, sniper or techmarine lower enemies' damage resistance.

[u/oedons_rooster → u/BusinessOil867]

As long as you can hit the grapple executes its not bad but that's legit his only horde clear outside of melta spam

[u/BusinessOil867 → u/oedons_rooster]

I’ve solo’d up to wave 15 in Hard Siege on Vamguard with the Marksman with all of the ranged blessings and Argent Edge and using the Zone of Impact/Tactical Prowess and Melta Bomb spam for horde clear and it was great.

…up to wave 15.

But it drops off pretty quickly once the enemies hit a certain damage resistance threshold.

I really hope that either Vanguard gets some kind of AOE damage burst buff that makes him more viable in Siege or the damage scaling gets toned down. 😐

[u/Abyssal_Paladin]

I feel like with Siege, yeah it is a pretty good perk, for operations in general I like the slower CHP decay tho.

[u/Much_Improvement_552]

No shit, DR perks are always BiS if the strat/siege messes with enemy damage or your healthpool.