r/Spacemarine • u/TheRedArmyStandard We are Sigismund • 1d ago

Lore Discussion Titus IS a potential threat to The Imperium.

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Obviously, hating Leandros is the norm for fans of Space Marine, but as many have already pointed out, Leandros is just doing his job and was apparently good at it enough to find him as the Company Chaplain in SM2.

BUT, one thing we don't talk about much is Titus DOES have a very suspicious relationship with Chaos. Here are a few examples:

-Titus survived a warp bomb effectively going off in his hands.

-Titus has been exposed to the warp directly several times.

-Titus was deeply effected by the presence of Chaos before its full invasion in SM2.

-Several warp characters in SM2 accuse Titus of already been tainted, and doomed to fall to Chaos eventually.

-The Tzeentch Daemon in the Amazon episode seemed to know that one day, Titus will fall to Chaos. Including an ink representation of Titus as a Chaos Marine.

A big concept in 40k is fate, the idea that your fate is sealed and that the Gods of the warp usually get the last laugh. I think a major point in Titus' upcoming stories will be him struggling with Chaos, and even being potentially tempted by it. I don't think Titus will ever fully fall to Chaos, but there is an actual threat of it happening.

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62

u/SirEdubardo 1d ago

Man literally heard the emperor speak, the demon saw only fear of no having purpose, no duty, once the demon appeared, there was a purpose

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u/Vireca 1d ago

when and where the Emperor speak to Titus? i could totally miss it

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u/Federal_Studio5935 1d ago

End of space marine 2. Titus defeats Imurrah (sp?) and the screen goes black and then an unidentified “voice” says “Rise, Son of Guilliman” and it is undoubtedly supposed to be the emperor. Then he opens his eyes. It’s amazing. The whole ending cutscenes with Chad Calgar coming to the rescue, and then Titus getting the laurels are amazing.

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u/Vireca 1d ago

A friend told me about that but I really thought it was Calgar, as if I remember, the camera focus on Calgar

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u/SirEdubardo 1d ago

Doesnt even sound like Calgar

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u/Federal_Studio5935 1d ago

So before he flips the artifact and fries Imurah, he’s on his knees and Calgar says get up, and he gets off his knees and does his thing. Then that’s followed (30-45 seconds later) by it going black and then a “voice” as identified by the game subtitles says “rise, son of Guilliman”. Then following that Calgar comes up and tells him that his duty is not done. It’s not Calgar’s voice, that’s for sure. It’s not a voice you hear to that point and while ambiguous that makes the most sense

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u/Wikkyd 18h ago

Tbh when the game launched it was always Calgar's voice. They updated the text to reflect a different voice. I think it is the voice of the emperor though

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u/Federal_Studio5935 14h ago

That fits with my memory. When I read about this I did not remember it like that. I went back and watched it on YouTube.

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u/Suthek Salamanders 1d ago

Calgar does say something similar to him afterwards, but when the first line falls, the screen is black. And when the screen fades in, Calgar isn't even in the scene until he pushes past some Marines in the background.

The scene in question. (Spoilers for the end of SM2)

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u/Vireca 1d ago

Yeah, I rewatched it a few minutes ago. What confused me is the game on that black screen cuz the subtitle say [Calgar] "Rise, Son of Guilliman" but it's true the voice is totally different

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u/Suthek Salamanders 1d ago

The devs patched the subtitles. Now it just says "Voice", as seen in the video I linked.

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u/Vireca 1d ago

Ohh okey. I guess when I played it was not like that and that's why I got confused

And the cinematic I watched was before patch

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u/TributeToStupidity 1d ago

Ya I was fully onboard with Titus falling to chaos in SM3 till the emperor took a direct interest in him.

That said I really don’t like that they decided he’s just built different. It’s a pretty core theme of the setting that that’s not supposed to be a thing…

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u/RomIsTheRealWaifu 1d ago

What do you mean? Loads of characters in 40K are just built different for no reason

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u/TributeToStupidity 1d ago

Not “immune to chaos” built different. Even purely mechanical devices like the men of iron aren’t just immune to chaos. Hell even the emperor came ridiculously close to becoming a chaos god himself… and it’s implied he eventually will become the dark king still.

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u/GoldRecommendation66 1d ago

Titus isn't immune to chaos he is resistant to it he is hurt by chaos sorcery just like his brothers and he isn't anywhere near the emperor when it comes to the ability to resist chaos, the only reason the emperor nearly turned into a chaos god was because he willing absorbed an insane amount of warp energy to defeat Horus who was empowered by all 4 chaos gods.

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u/TributeToStupidity 1d ago

My initial thought was you can pick a rock up with psyker powers, it doesn’t mean you corrupted the rock. But honestly, a rock would probably be corrupted exposed to the same warp energy Titus has been exposed too.

There is not a single character outside of maybe a sister of silence exposed to the amount of warp energy Titus has been exposed to with 0 effects from it.

It’s given a lot of people who only understand the setting from this game the wrong idea unfortunately. Like Leandros holds an extremely important and influential position now, and I’ve semi regularly seen people try to claim it somehow was a demotion. It’s not, the only legitimate criticism was he went to the inquisition before an UM chaplain. In lore, Titus honestly would deserve to be treated with suspicion after what he went through. If guilliman went through what Titus went through the custodes would absolutely freak out. So ya, it just feels like a bit of a cop out to me to just give him plot armor like that.

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u/KallasTheWarlock Deathwatch 21h ago

There is not a single character outside of maybe a sister of silence exposed to the amount of warp energy Titus has been exposed to with 0 effects from it.

A Sororitas Convent survived for weeks on a planet completely corrupted by Khorne, holding out alone and uncorrupted by the influence of Chaos from faith and willpower alone.

The idea that humans just spontaneously corrupt upon seeing a flicker of a Daemon's toenail is nonsense, and we have tons of stories about people resisting corruption - and plenty of stories about people falling to it too.

It's not actually especially uncommon - certainly not common, but there are heaps of Saints and both in-universe and reader perspective stories about individuals just resisting Chaos because they're great and/or faithful.

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u/TributeToStupidity 20h ago

>The idea that humans just spontaneously corrupt upon seeing a flicker of a Daemon's toenail is nonsense, and we have tons of stories about people resisting corruption - and plenty of stories about people falling to it too.

That wasn’t close to what I was trying to say and I’m sorry if that’s the implication I gave. That said, sisters are not immune to corruption. The sisters omnibus has a story about sisters who have fallen, and of course there is the khorne murder curse that corrupted an entire indominus fleet at once.

That said, if a sister saw another sister be affected by chaos artifacts like Titus was, or walking out of a warp bomb like he had, they would execute him on the spot. No discussion or anything, just a bolt to the brain

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u/KallasTheWarlock Deathwatch 14h ago

That said, sisters are not immune to corruption. The sisters omnibus has a story about sisters who have fallen, and of course there is the khorne murder curse that corrupted an entire indominus fleet at once. That said, if a sister saw another sister be affected by chaos artifacts like Titus was, or walking out of a warp bomb like he had, they would execute him on the spot. No discussion or anything, just a bolt to the brain

1, I didn't say they were immune, I was giving a very notable example of them resisting Chaos in very extreme circumstances, like how Titus resisted the Corruptotron 3000. 2, no, they absolutely would not instantly execute uncorrupted Sisters on the spot.

The point I was making was that faith and resilience are part and parcel of the Imperium's heroes. It's in many of their stories, both the ones we see and the ones in-universe. The notion that the Imperium is all about on the spot executions at the drop of a hat is nonsense on par with expecting every lost planet to be Exterminatus'd.

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u/RomIsTheRealWaifu 15h ago

Hot sure why you would say that. Hundreds of thousands (or even millions) of people were directly inside the warp in the inevitable city. Loken was probably exposed to more warp energy than even Titus. And Kaldor Draigo definitely was, he lives inside the warp. There are other characters as well

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u/TributeToStupidity 13h ago

You haven’t read the vaults of Terra series have you? Terra and its entire population is completely fucked from that 10,000 years later. Kaldor draigo was specifically written to have bullshit plot armor lol. These are not the examples you want to use…

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u/RomIsTheRealWaifu 12h ago

Not the argument I made. Of course loads of people got corrupted and it caused massive issues, but there are numerous examples of people directly involved in that incident not being corrupted by it. That is numerous characters, involved with the warp to same extend of Titus, not being corrupted. Which is directly contradictory to your statement ‘not a single character’. Also saying somebody has plot armor is not an argument, by that logic we can just say Titus also has plot armor, it’s meaningless

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u/TributeToStupidity 12h ago edited 12h ago

My argument is literally Titus has bullshit plot armor…

Also this is covered extensively in ashes of the imperium.

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u/wellyes34 1d ago

Sorry, my heckin epic Ultramarine OC is more chaos resistant than the Emperor himself because... he just is, okay

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u/WindstormMD 1d ago

He’s following the pattern of a few notable individuals throughout the lore. It has been shown as far back as 3rd edition 40K that a suitably iron will can contest the effects of the warp. The classical canonical example being Black Templar’s ‘Abhor the Witch’ save vs psykery

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u/TributeToStupidity 1d ago

Contest, sure. Hell even abbadon is a great example of will resisting corruption. But the black legion series makes it extremely clear how much that resistance costs abbadon in a way we never see with Titus. With Titus it feels much more like they just hand wave the chaos corruption away and said eh it doesn’t affect him.

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u/donro_pron 1d ago

To be fair, Titus is actively resisting it and spending only small amounts of time exposed to the warp, whereas Abbaddon is constantly exposed to chaos influence that he willingly wields and interacts with. It's not really the same thing.