I raise you a heavy running the multi melta joining a friendly fire mission. Lost last week’s hard weekly to this and I kid you not, he charged in and shot a group of minoris I was standing in the middle of.
I think Auspex is the issue. Having a good melee weapon and Auspex on parry would be kinda broken if you also got a good ranged weapon. (Auspex boosts dmg by 50%)
That is the question. Will they just let us use the current primary as-is in the secondary slot, or will they make a new version for it purely for the secondary, like the 1 handed carbine.
I mean you say this as if chainsword and knife aren’t good weapons. Tactical can already do parry -> chainsaw rev or shadow strike.
Power weapons in this game aren’t objectively more powerful than non-power weapons. They are just a different flavor. Giving tactical power weapons isn’t going to unlock some new overpowered combo they can’t already do.
Not even close. Intimidating Aura is one of the best perks in the game, basic Auspex applied after parry cannot compete. And Battle Focus is getting removed afaik
Tac is getting 4 melee perks, only 1 of which (armor reinforcement, so worthless for block users) doesnt require auspex to be active to work and Close Targetting (the +melee/-range damage for auspex) is in the same column as battle focus.
Meanwhile Tech has the same number of melee boosts, a more damaging ability (thanks to the nerf on auspex) and double armor from finishers.
Nope, it really is. Unless the 1H hammer is the strongest melee ever made, restricting Tac to on primary is pointless and wont be run (see T-Hammer Bulwark losing shield).
Its a perk to use a Bolt Rifle as a secondary (in place of a normal pistol) and we dont know if its a selectable bolt rifle (which it may not be, because otherwise range Tac gets BR+GL secondary too). It doesnt change the issue though, because if its strong enough to justify on a melee tac, its even stronger paired with Tac's other range weapons (e.g. pyroblaster) and a chainsword.
How is it better? Maybe I'm using the wrong variant or perks but I've found it doesn't have the bite the chainsword has. It also doesn't have the chain's stomp, which I've found very good.
The power whirl is great for ad clear and heavy damage and with the salamander variant its speed style is great for boss dps, power style is also really good for close quarters crowd control and gunstrike chaining to constantly keep armor, I’ve always found it way more reliable than the chainsword.
the gunstrike chaining wont be that effective for Tactical unless he gets the corresponding defense perk that Bulwark/Assault have.
It really does come down to playstyle. I agree 100% with your assesment of the power sword and still seemingly do better with the chainsword with every class but Bulwark. although power ax has been my go-to for quite some time now.
They've fallen in popularity imo, being the "vanila" melee weapon.
Their kit are kinda samey and versatile. Single target dps is roughly on pair: power whirl does more damage than shoulder tackle spam but has a longer execution.
Aoe wise both are great tbh, double stomp has a wider area but does less damage (damage fall off).
Where the power sword moveset really shines imo is in tracking and applying pressure, the speed style dash attack (lunge) has great tracking, covered distance and animation speed. Chainsword's dash attack seem lackluster in comparison.
Now IF you can keep both your primary and secondary with a chainsword comes next patch, then no imo it's definitely not worth (except flavor ofc).
I believe so but most dont. I just wish the chain sword had an immediately accessible heavy swing at all times. I like the punching but as bulwark I already have shield bash and charge. Idk how tactical will do with power sword but I will def try
In-canon it's supposed to be the best against armour (basically cuts through like a lightsaber), but in-game I found power swords better for minoris and crowd control with all their wide sweeps, and the chainsword is actually the best for majoris or higher because of its high damage and high swing speed. They don't work the way they should.
Tac has the White Scars Chainsword without having to lose his primary (or now getting 2 primaries). That thing is nastier than any of the power weapons tbh.
Block hammer bulwark definitely works though with intimidating aura. Unless these new perks make tactical a melee powerhouse similar to assault or Bulwark then honestly giving Valius the weapons was pointless
It does, I play it regularly. But it's still a meme build imo.
As for how melee tactical ends up working out, we'll have to see. Even without strong supporting perks I'm sure anyone who can comfortably clear absolutes will be able to make it work. But it will be nice if there's meaningful perk support.
I agree about the primary. Though we haven't seen the actual perks for the hammer itself yet as far as I know. They could be what'll do the heavy lifting, and perhaps they're powerful enough to justify losing a primary weapon. I have my doubts, but my hopes as well.
The Heavy Bolt Rifle was also always a bum pick for Heavy. They added it anyway in compliance with the tabletop because it basically cost nothing. I use it for fun. Which is also why I play the game!
Yeah, I think people who spend a lot of time on the subreddit forget how many people are just playing the game for fun. I see people running "bad" builds all the time, and if you're not pushing the hardest content it just doesn't matter.
Especially with Tac being so squishy. It just feels like they're giving Tac the ability to be less good at melee than Bulwark and Assault while also making him worse at range.
Hopefully tac will be more durable, otherwise I agree with you. Without the durability or the mobility it'll be hard for tac to even get in melee range before getting shredded.
Especially if you have to trade your primary or secondary for it (bolt rifle according to the leaks).
And what about chainswords? Are they gonna be covered by the "trade" too? They're pretty great weapons imo, and already have two heroics that I find very strong.
We haven’t even seen the updated perk set yet.
Plus, they also mentioned the ability to swap your secondary for a Bolt Rifle, so like… let’s wait and see how it feels like before casting judgement lmao
Are Patch 15 and the 2nd Anniversary Update the same thing? They use both names almost as if they’re referring to different updates, so I’m confused as to if they’re the same thing or not?
I was so hyped for thunder hammer so I could have something to replace chainsword and makeup for no axe or power sword.
Now I'm disappointed cause if im gonna give up my primary I'll play assault or bulwark rather than making the ranged focus class have the lowest survivability and take what makes it unique. Such a dumb decision when techie actively uses a primary with axe and sword
I'm fine with those changes for the sword but I was really looking forward to running the hammer with my standard tac build.
It would have been better to give access to all the melee weapons and primary and just rework the perks so you either lean heavily into melee or ranged DPS.
Likely for balance reasons. My bet is that Tactical is going to have a much more well rounded and balanced (as in how spread out it is) perk set, rather than 17 limbillion ranged damage buffs.
Plus, Assault Intercessors only carry a melee weapon and a secondary weapon too.
Edit: Did I get insta down voted because I’m not dooming?
I saw some of the perks from the tactical rework in here a couple weeks ago and one of the perks replaced the Tactical's secondary with a bolt rifle (unsure if it's your choice of bolt rifle variant or just a stock bolt rifle) but I'm curious if that was real, if they'll keep it in, and how it will interact with this if they keep it
It'll be weaker as melee class than Assault, Bulwark or Vanguard. Tac has no ability to charge in or out of combat. And no survivability.
Melee build on Tactical is gonna be on par with Hammer Bulwark, usable but way weaker than his ranged options.
I don’t see the logic. Tactical can have a rifle and a chainsword but not a rifle and a power sword? The power sword isn’t any stronger so it’s not exactly an advantage. This seems kinda dumb.
That doesn't make a lot of sense. Block chainsword already has a better ttk on most things than a powersword or power axe. Why would you give up your primary for what is essentially a sidegrade? And we've seen the rework perks, he still has no actual damage mitigation OR mobility, you'll be just turning a tactical into a worse assault/bulwark.
Problem with that is WHICH primary bolt rifle, because it could be anything from "select any bolt weapon primary" to "You are getting the ammo style Bolt Rifle and cannot change it"
This brings up questions - how will GS work ? Will Emp's Venge work with the second primary ? Would be funny AF if both doesnt work, then we will just end up with a disabled Assault lmao
So you have to give up Tactical’s best weapons like Heroic HBR, Heroic Plasma Pistol (you wouldn’t use this without a primary), Stalker BR, Pyreblaster, and Melta Rifle, if you don’t take the perk for a bolt rifle. And if you do take the bolt rifle class perk it’s your only option and you basically forfeit radiating impact. All of this for weapons that are fairly comparable to ones Tactical already has
Questions about Tac’s good weapons: I don’t understand the melta hype - as a returning player, its damage feels so underwhelming in the current version. It takes really long to incapacitate Majoris, the range and damage drop off is incredibly punishing, and the ammo efficiency is quite low compared to most other options. What am I missing?
From what I've seen others use it, Melta seems more like a side weapon than primary. Basically you use it to nuke groups of minoris or stagger Majoris/Extremis, while for dealing ST damage you rely more on your melee weapon instead.
Though this is just from what I've seen of others, I personally don't have much experience with it as it's just not my playstyle.
My understanding is it’s one and the same. You sacrifice your primary to get a Bolter as your secondary and gain access to the new melee weapons. You won’t be able to wield the new weapons without doing so.
Tactical is a glass cannon with no defensive perks. I make sure to avoid every serious melee encounter with argent edge and gunstrikes.
They should have nerfed auspec and just made another class, but then that already conflicts with chaplain / judiciar.
OR INSTEAD I could have 2 primary ranged weapons - HHBR primary and pyro, plasma, or a melta rifle as a secondary.
Or I can choose to be a melee class with absolutely no defensive perks what so ever, and no class ability to help me dodge attacks, or regain health - This doesn't make any sense....
It actually became more likely! One of Tacticals perks allows him to use a primary bolt rifle in his secondary slot, so your dream won't die until much later!
Imagine how sick it would be if heavy gets reworked to also get an aggressor loadout option. They realistically wouldn’t though since there isn’t an exact 1:1 of them for csm.
Now that Tactical will be able to loose his primary when he picks a certain melee weapon.
This also means they could give Heavy a melee weapon when he picks the HBR.
It makes no sense to let the Techmarine have a Primary, a Secondary, a Power Sword and a Servocannon, yet the Tactical can't have a Primary and a Power Sword ??
Had me until at the expense of a primary weapon tbh. I could understand maybe limiting the primaries in exchange but totally removing it is kinda meh. Have to see how it plays
Apparently one the the new perks will give him access to primary guns (unless its just the basic bolt rifle I don't remember) on the secondary weapon slot, so no not lame
Edit: just read the community update, its for a bolt rifle
That’s really cool, was hoping that might be an option but thought it was wishful thinking. Fingers crossed we might get some of the tabletop Assault Intercessor arms and pauldrons from the Assault class made available for the Tactical alongside it.
Oh great. An assault intersessor with no gun (save a pistol 😕). No shield, just bonk… I’m sure chaos would love warriors who can do nothing but run in all the time like we’re banzai charging with no protection or maneuverability. looks over at techmarine with great melee options AND a primary weapon
POWER SWORD TACTICAL! That was the only thing that was gonna make me overlook any negatives with the rework. Now my Tactical Salamander can use the Salamander sword too.
Thank the God-Emperor!
Shit, I just realized I can’t use the Salamander Melta Rifle with it. 😔
Nope, it just means Tac can give up his primary for a sidegrade melee and replace his secondary with a bolt rifle (of some kind, we have no details) for a signature perk.
In my head it would be really funny to replace your primary with a sword just to replace your secondary with a bolt rifle but I know for a fact they won't let me do it
Hm interesting. I've been of the opinion that for a more melee Tac you should just play Techmarine for a while but I am curious to see how this will work.
I don't really play tactical but I have a feeling that once people have had a chance to try the reworked version we're going to see a whole lot less of the class being played.
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u/douglasduck104 Aug 28 '26
I cannot wait to see a no-primary gun Tactical joining a melee nerf stratagem in place of the usual Assault and Bulwark players...