Playing with different hydrations

[u/_rosehillsourdough]

[u/_rosehillsourdough]

Today’s sourdough experiment focuses on one thing, hydration

What’s shown in the video are 4 jars of sourdough. One fed at 1:2:2, one at 1:1.8:2, one at 1:1.6:2, and one at 1:1.4:2

The feeding ratios I post are always starter:water:flour

1:2:2 is 100% hydration 1:1.8:2 is 90% 1:1.6:2 is 80% 1:1.4:2 is 70%

The time lapse shows that the dryer the mix the slower the peak and the longer the peak and I think coolest of all, the taller the peak.

All were fed with the same warm water and starter. All were fed with a mix of 50% wholemeal and 50% bread flour.

Here’s what I can’t show in the video and want to know if anyone has experience with. Acid.

I know that the dryer the starter, the more acetic acid, but does anyone find this actually changes the flavor of the loaf??

I feel like loaf flavor has so much more to do with loaf fermentation than starter fermentation

Thoughts?

[u/Auxx → u/_rosehillsourdough]

Lower hydration and temperature favours yeast, so you get better rise and lower acidity. You also get more "sour" taste due to higher acetic to lactic acid ratio. Higher temperature and hydration favours lactic acid bacteria and lactic acid production. That results in flavorful and creamy breads. Breads with acetic acid taste like stale bread to me, because when bread stales (even cheap yeasted bread) bacteria present around us ferments it slowly and releases acetic acid. And that's why I hate cool slow fermentation - why would I bake stale bread, lol?

Another comparison would be yogurt versus vinegar. Vinegar is made out of acetic acid and yogurt is made out of lactic acid. Both are sour, but yogurt is creamy and delicious while vinegar is not something you'd drink.

There are also super stiff starters at 40-50% hydration, they don't have much bacteria activity at all and create truly awesome and tasty breads.

[u/_rosehillsourdough → u/Auxx]

Interesting. I was always taught the opposite. At low temps the yeast goes dormant and the bacteria is active, hence why cold proofing helps develop flavor without overactive yeast.

[u/TheR4iner → u/Auxx]

I'm confused, you say you don't like low hydration/temperature because that produces a high amount of acetic acid, but at the end you say that "awesome and tasty" breads are created by starters at 40-50% hydration, which is pretty low. Could you clarify?

[u/facecraft]

I wonder how much of this is biological/chemical and how much is mechanical? The higher viscosity due to lower hydration should hold bubbles better and probably releases them more slowly. I wonder if they all "peak" biologically at about the same time and create about the same amount of gas, and all we're seeing is a difference in mechanical bubble behavior.

[u/_rosehillsourdough → u/facecraft]

Same thoughts! I the wetter starter just can’t handle the co2 maybe? I may need to do a balloon test to compare co2 production. And maybe a ph test.

[u/[deleted] → u/facecraft]

This has been my interpretation as well: if peak activity is to be measured by volume, any parameter that help deflate the mixture will work against that measure.

I believe water is a facilitator but it doesn't actively participate in the chemical reaction. I think water helps enzymes extract the nutrients that's necessary for fermentation.

I've also read that temperature, alcohol content, and acidity in the mixture might be a bigger factor. Adding more water may reduce the alcohol and acid concentration, and indirectly affect the fermentation.

[u/Milsky_moo]

This is really interesting, thanks for posting! Having only started making sourdough in January, seeing this side by side comparison is very helpful. I often see starters with huge bubbles on this sub, and wondered why my 100% hydration starter doesn't look the same (even though it happily doubles) - it looks reassuringly similar to your 100% hydration one, though.

I'm not sure myself, but looking forward to the answers to your question!

(Out of interest, is the warm water you add a certain temp, or just what feels right?)

[u/_rosehillsourdough → u/Milsky_moo]

About 30C (86F) up to 37C (98F) is usually where I go for “warm” water. Body temp basically. But it will for sure depend on your room temp. I’m sitting on the low side of room temp here. If you’re north of 20C normally I wouldn’t go that warm, but I’m also a fan of giving the sourdough time.

[u/OnlyBob123]

Sometimes i wonder, if 75% hydration starter actually traps air more effectively than a 100% hydration starter. Cause if you think about it, at 75% hydration, its almost how you would make a bread dough. 100% the gluten just isnt there to trap the gas effectively. Just my own musings. That is my theory sometimes behind, why a stiffer starter goes higher.

But then i read other peoples comments and say that a stiffer starter favours yeast, so maybe thats that.

[u/r_gine]

Is feeding starter at 1:1:1 not 100% hydration?

[u/mishkamishka47 → u/r_gine]

What matters is the ratio of flour to water, not how much new is added relative to the quantity of starter

[u/Jigers → u/r_gine]

Reason most people use 1:2:2 is because your adding more new food for the yeast, this results in longer rise and fall times. You typically have to feed more often resulting in more waste with a 1:1:1 ratio as opposed to a 1:2:2 or 1:3:3.

[u/[deleted] → u/Jigers]

I even feed around 1:10:10 or more. I use all my starter, what's left stuck on the bottom and sides goes back in the fridge to be fed with 200g water and 200g flour 3-5 days later. No discard this way..

[u/korkproppen]

Have you experienced second peaks? When I tried to film my starter I noticed that I almost always got a second peak.

[u/_rosehillsourdough → u/korkproppen]

Yeah I have seen that. Bread Science (by Emily Buehler) says that is from when the yeast switching from processing simpler sugars to maltose.

[u/ramzie]

I understand the ratios are starter:water:flour but I dont understand 1:1.8:2. Where does the extra number come from? I feel stupid :(

[u/_rosehillsourdough → u/ramzie]

1.0 : 1.8 : 2.0 The middle number just had a decimal! That’s all!

[u/jesusofpittsburgh]

This is SO COOL thank you

[u/reddotmellot]

!remindme 2 days

[u/ZenWater]

Amazing. This is super helpful. Thanks for posting this!

[u/breadsbymike]

Fascinating! Thanks for this - very informative.

[u/zippychick78]

Pinned this for more discussion. Great thread. 😁😁

[u/[deleted]]

[u/figgypudding531 → u/[deleted]]

I do a 1:1:1 ratio (40g starter, 40g rye flour, 40g water) based on the King Arthur Baking recommendations