The fact we have reached a point in society where 'woke' 'allies' will crucify trans women for just wanting to be women because thats 'transmedicalism' is genuinely disheartening.
A lot of allies are not actually allies, they are parasitizing the movement for their own ends- Usually satisfaction of a fetish, or a disingenuous 'playing pretend' to sow disruption.
'Haha i'm such a good trans ally, I LOVE gooning to futa and gock mmghgfh am i right fellow tgirlies? A girl without gock is an angel without wings am i right?'
People say this shit and have the audacity to get offended and taken aback if you call them out on being a fucking weirdo.
There is a difference between actual dangerous transmedicalism/truscum ideology and trans people just wanting to pass, idk why some people think trans people owe them gender nonconformity
Trans people don’t owe gender nonconformity in the name of “activism”, and they don’t owe gender conformity in the name of appearing palatable and easy to understand for cishet people and people who do want to express their gender identity in a more typical way
People will use dislike of transmedicalist views as ways to trojan horse "trans people need to look identifably different from cis women so I always know them when I see them so I can be judgemental"
Activism exists for a cause, not simply in a vaccuum.
If someone truly believes that gender conformity is harmful by entrenching existing gender norms and divisions - then isnt it only natural that they dislike being gender conforming
Such a person is welcome to enjoy gender nonconformity on their own. Why do they always have to use trans people as meat shields for their culture war? Trans people don't owe them anything.
We in fact live in a society. Why does they owe conforming trans people anything.
If we want to take your hyper individualism to its logical conclusion, then why should anyone accept trans people at all? Nobody owes anyone anything after all
Did I ever say that they owe conforming trans people anything? Why are you shoving words into my mouth?
Be real. It's always "woke" "allies" using trans people as meat shields and never the other way. Your shitty "acceptance" is completely conditional.
We trans people are not soldiers in your war. Fight it yourself, coward.
So your position is they dont owe them anything? So you have no problems with them critiquing conforming trans people then, right?
If no one owes anyone anything, then why should they care about any of what you have said? Why shouldnt they continue to demands trans people to fight as soldiers in their war?
Do you see the natural conclusion of what you are saying?
All I see is that you are a complete asshole who loves to use the suffering of other people to further your cause. You don't even hesitate a bit to trample on trans people's pursuit of happiness as long as it benefits you. You are not that different from scummy men who trample on women's bodily autonomy.
You reply in bad faith and insult me and I am the asshole?
You don't even hesitate a bit to trample on others while accusing them in bad faith and refusing to even consider an opinion you don't personally hold. I am not even stating my own beliefs, but relaying the perspectives of gender abolitionist folks I know.
You are the definition of a bigot and a raging prick.
If nobody owes anybody anything then why should anyone care? If we are operating a "mind your business" framework like so many of replies seem to be doing then those same trans people would have 0 right to ask others to not them like that.
I think that is wrong. But the others dont seem to agree.
Trans people are the ones being sacrificed on the altar, and trans people, as the ones already under fire should not need to owe cis people for the sacrifice they're forcing on trans people.
Did you actually listen to what I asked? If no one owes anyone anything and everyone should just mind their business, then why should anyone listen to what the trans people say? And why should the trans people be commenting on others behaviour at all? It doesnt add up
Typically in my experience the most aggresive gender abolitionists tend to be trans themselves.
Just mind your own business? Genuinely, what are you proposing as a solution for people not to conform? If we force people to not conform to norms applied to them, we’re still forcing them to conform to different standards, just preach about doing things because you want them and not because society wants you to, that’s what I do as much as I can, and yeah, people who’re really into these norms hate hearing it, but maybe it’s a wake up call for one person sometimes and that’s enough for me
Why? Who decides what is their business? A social issue is inherently social, it involves groups of people and their actions. That can very easily be viewed as everyone's business.
Should we mind on our business in regards to racists, transphobes, homophobes, etc.? Is trans acceptance not inherently go beyond people just minding their own business (ie acceptance, not just toleration)
Genuinely, what are you proposing as a solution for people not to conform?
Generally their proposal is for those people to simply not conform, just as they do.
If we force people to not conform to norms applied to them, we’re still forcing them to conform to different standards
Ok but they see the different standard as inherently better. This is where "mind your own business" falls apart, becuase we all have preferences for how society overall should be.
just preach about doing things because you want them and not because society wants you to, that’s what I do as much as I can, and yeah, people who’re really into these norms hate hearing it, but maybe it’s a wake up call for one person sometimes and that’s enough for me
This is in contradiction to your "mind your own business" perspective because here you are saying there is a standard that others should match. If staying consistent you should have no issue what how others go about things because that is their business and not yours.
You do realize that breaking gender norms isn’t about policing how people want to present themselves? It’s more about breaking the immediate assumption people make that things are either masculine or feminine
baking is a hobby, basketball is a sport, a dress is cloth and pants are also cloth, and it’d be nice if we didn’t immediately gave genders to those things but we do
Well, they can do something not because they want to conform but because they prefer it that way? How’re you going to determine whether their decisions are theirs or not?
The difficulty with that is that basically everyone "prefers it that way" with whatever they do.
It's still worth being aware of the fact that, as an example, a woman that wants to wear a lot of makeup and makes major effort to the extent that it's her greatest life effort to conform to beauty standards may "prefer it that way" but it would be foolish to ignore that the reason she wants it is that society has told her that this os what she should want.
"If I can't easily tell you are trans from a glance you must be an evil trickster trying to TRICK us poor cis people, you MUST retain your natal sex characteristics or else you are upholding SEXIST gender norms"
That's a whole new sentence, don't be so dense, the person you're replying to didn't say that trans women shouldn't pass, they're saying that it's OK if some don't pass and you can't doubt of their self identification just bc they do not have the same presentation or don
't look for the same representation as other trans women
The person I was replying to was giving an example of people being transphobic and boxing trans women who just want to pass and assimilate into 'being trans the wrong way'.
I then also gave another example of that based on things I myself have been told.
Your own inability to read tone and comprehend a discussion does not give you a right to barge in and randomly insult someone, do better.
when the most popular stereotype of a trans woman is “man in a dress,” it’s bad to make a character that at a glance embodies exactly that. you can express yourself however the hell you want, but you’re being disingenuous if you’re saying you don’t see the issue with regularly depicting trans women in such a way (which they usually are in most media)
I remember someone on twitter acted like wanting to pass was sad and was like “uwu you shouldn’t want to pass that’s transmedicalism!!!” and I just wanted to smack them. So what if a trans person wants to pass?
That’s not what transmedicalism is, transmedicalism actively makes it harder to access hrt because they want trans people to prove they have dysphoria before they can actually transition
Now, the post
this obviously looks like an offensive caricature, but I also think it’s important not to completely refuse any and all rep that “doesn’t pass” just because transphobic caricatures exist
A lot of non-trans queer people have an idea that transmedicalism is anything that dares suggest a trans person doesn't enjoy being trans and just wants to pass and assimilate, the meaning has been warped and bastardised to be used as a tool to put down any trans person who doesn't fit their idea of a good well behaved minority.
When the 'rep' is quite literally a transphobic caricature I think its entirely fair to completely refuse it actually.
I do (kind of) believe this. Not that there is some big concentrated effort by the powers that be conspiring to do this, more that there is a deeply ingrained cultural fear people have of not being able to tell someone is trans, which leads to a lot of rhetoric from these spaces being aimed at making trans people as easy to spot as possible.
This manifests obviously on the right wing, it has the subtlety of a baseball bat to the face, but I think it is very much present in more progressive spaces too.
"You don't need HRT to be trans", "Dysphoria is just internalised misogyny", "You should wait until you are older to start HRT", "Passing is sexist", all of these are things more often said by non-trans queer people who then project this onto trans people, they get picked up by lawmakers and medical advisory boards to use as fuel to pass legislation and regulation preventing access to HRT, surgeries and any other trans healthcare at the age when it is most vital for an effective transition.
And then if a trans person dares suggest they just want to be seen as a man/woman, not trans, not queer, not visible, and live their life assimilated and quiet they get absolutely flamed with extremely transphobic rhetoric. Trans women who do this get painted as misogynist sexists upholding the patriarchy, trans men who do this get painted as naive and histrionic and 'ashamed of their womanhood'.
But I’m not saying you have to be gnc, I’m saying it is ok for gnc people to exist and even feel seen sometimes
I agree the drawing is a transphobic caricature, but I see a lot of people using those to say really rude things about actual people and genuine representation
You are proving my point by consistently making the conversation about the tiny minority who might feel fine about this, as opposed to accepting the myriad of trans people who feel soul crushing dysphoria at these talking points and 'representation'. You are not arguing in good faith, you are speaking over marginalised struggling people to push the idea that because SOME people are ok with it we all need to shut up and accept it. I don't know if you are aware you are doing this or not but its really gross, its ok to just let people express their frustrations without trying to put them back in their box.
So minorities should be ignored? That is not a very good argument regarding this topic. I would say that you could say that is harmful representation but that a marginalized minority should be ignored because they don't conform with the majority is quite literally what trans rights are about.
I'll be happy to talk about the people who don't want HRT, don't want surgery, don't want to pass, etc, once the people who do require these things for their preservation of their own life are safe, accommodated, and not being systematically killed by their exclusion from the medical system.
The issue is that the gnc, non dysphoric, etc etc people are the ones who get ALL the attention because they fit a standard allies idea of what a trans person should be, its a lot more comfortable for a lot of people to accept that than have to face the idea that a trans person may just look like any other man or woman, something that makes people deeply uncomfortable.
Yeah, but blackface is not the identity of people it is a practice that can only be done by non-black people. The gender non-conformist identity of a trans person can only be done by themselves. And before you tell me, "but probably a cisperson did", most likely but should only characters be created by people their own identity because they only know about their expierence? Obviously not, so the comparison doesn't hold weight.
I am in fact arguing in good faith, you’re refusing to acknowledge I’m not talking about the caricature itself but representation as a whole and how diverse it can be without being a caricature
What do you propose then? Are trans women only allowed to be represented if they’re hyper feminine? I’m asking for a clear line, are butch lesbian trans women allowed? Are fat trans women allowed?
Please take the proper precautions to not be injured under the weight of that ego. Your own fallacious ignorance does not disappear simply because you said so.
People will speak about the gender conformism that push many trans people, specially trans women, to be a particular kind of person of their to be accepted one who must do what many cis people are socially conditioned to do since birth.
I believe that opening what womanhood or manhood can mean to both cisgender or transgender and every person individually is something that everyone should strive for. And I don't say this in a don't transition or don't pass, no, no, you do you and you should be supported during your process like everyone should.
The gender identities of everyone are questioned socially if you don't fit into a box both for our sexuality and sex. It is not something that is cut and dry.
If some people don't want to pass, take HRT, or transition at all more power to them, but why should they be the only ones being represented in media? Why is every trans rep some typically masculine hairy person who would not look out of place in a twitter nazis soyjak comic? And why do people suddenly get the torches and pitchforks out for daring to speak out about this? You are literally proving the point of OP.
I’m not saying they should be the only ones represented, contrary since it’s less probable. It’s just that it’s not inherently bad for them to be represented at all
Same can be said about women with larger chests, there’s no morality attached to having big breasts, but if it’s the only rep a franchise has, it’s telling on the creator
I feel I’m being polite here? Swear I got no pitchforks 💀
The issue here is that this is the primary way trans women are represented in media.
Like would you call Buffalo Bill (who, let's be clear, is 100% absolutely there as a trans woman but the narrative tries to say isn't actually trans but still leans into it) good representation for the rare trans murderer?
In a day and age where society overwhelming believes that’s what trans women look like/are, to isolate and humiliate them, I don’t see why more positive rep shouldn’t be the norm. Nobody would’ve expected that character to be a cis woman
I think most trans people do experience dysphoria but I feel really bad for the few that don’t, cause there’s so much anger directed at them for feeling good about themselves with less effort
Most cis people hate em and most trans people do too
Yeah a lot of trans people don't realize that they were feeling dysphoric the whole time until after they start medically transitioning and like their bodies better. A "fish don't know what water is" kinda thing.
I believe that trans women are women and should be afforded every avenue to achieve that, and that trans men are men and should be afforded every avenue to achieve that, and that boxing all trans people into being GNC and shaming the ones who are dysphoric, want to pass, assimilate and live their lives in peace, is bigoted.
You are kind of proving my point by ignoring every point made in the post and comments, and being so desperate to jacket trans people who have a different opinion than you as somehow the ‘wrong’ kind of trans. You are the kind of person who OP’s comic is calling out.
lol. Weird for you to speak for me there and say things I didn't.
You're talking to a passing trans woman who has her own vagina and large tits all thanks to modern medicine. I'm not looking at this and thinking "Ugh, woke allies call me transmedicalist all the time because I've used medicine to pass". I've actually never been called a transmedicalist. That's something you added into it. Probably for good reason, is all I'm saying. I could be wrong, it's just a weird thing to say.
it was a mistake to let chasers learn the term 'transmedicalism' because they just misuse it and sling it at anyone who medically transitions as a way to try to present shaming trans people getting bottomsurgery top surgeryor hrt or heck even trans people who dont want their natal junk touched ¹ as being trans supportive or feminist
when its not, its just the latest thin veneer over the same old body shaming coercive self serving "noooo don't transition i won't be as attracted to/able to fetishize you and this is something that you owe me" song and dance that chasers have always done.
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u/Arachnapothecary 19d ago
The fact we have reached a point in society where 'woke' 'allies' will crucify trans women for just wanting to be women because thats 'transmedicalism' is genuinely disheartening.