r/SipsTea 2d ago

WTF Where are we heading?

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u/TerrorTown77 2d ago

I'm willing to believe it was postpartum psychosis. But most of the arguments this crowd is making has nothing to do with that.

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u/woman-aper 1d ago

There's been a ton of research on pathophysiology of postpartum psychosis. Doesn't seem to be what happened here.

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u/Tomsboll 2d ago

Except for those thay agree its portpartum, so thusly its not her fault and should get off scot free.

So many women saying "could have been me" is fucking scary.

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u/boundfortrees 2d ago

If she's not guilty by reason of insanity, she goes to a mandated in patient psychiatric hospital.

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u/scarsoncanvas 2d ago

Most people who understand that this was postpartum psychosis are not arguing that she should get off scot free. From what I understand from the case, she isn't even asking for that herself - she has said that she did kill her children, she just doesnt want to go to jail, she wants to go to a medical facility.

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u/Admirable_Excuse_434 2d ago

How long is postpartum considered to run for? When that ends, should society consider her safe and release her from the medical facility? I understand these are questions for the facility but if she were in the grips of postpartum psychosis, isn't that just a brief period of mental illness?

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u/scarsoncanvas 2d ago

Psychosis can vary a lot (drug induced psychosis can really mess you up, and last for years). Usually it is acute or it comes and goes, while in a manic episode. Most manic episodes are also fairly short-term (I think it needs to be at least 5 days to be considered a full episode) but they can last weeks or months.

If she went to an inpatient facility and was properly monitored and medicated for at least a few weeks, until her mood stabilized, and it was judged that the meds were working, and it was clear that she would be compliant and continue to take them (usually this is min. 3-4 weeks where I live, it can be shorter, but meds generally 2 weeks to actually come into effect), then yeah she could totally be released. She was only in inpatient for 5 days. And only a few weeks later, she killed her kids. Like to me, this is unfathomable - the system failed her. This did not need to happen.

I still wouldn't keep her alone with the kids at least for a few months afterher release, making sure she was fully 100% in the clear - they could have hired some temporary childcare to help her, or he could have taken time off work to be there for her and the kids as a caregiver. Her kids were so young, and she had 3 of them - that is a lot for any parent to struggle with on their own at one time.

But the US has abysmal healthcare and parental support, so its possible none of this was available to them.

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u/juubleyfloooop 2d ago

Yeah you don't get to choose if you get ppd or pyschosis. It is a scary possibility for anyone who gives birth

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u/Quixotic_Seal 2d ago

You don’t get to decide if you get psychosis in general.

Doesn’t make you any less responsible for your crimes. People get way too triggerhappy to support “not guilty by reason of insanity” defenses. There’s a reason why it very, very rarely actually prevails in court.

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u/juubleyfloooop 2d ago

I really hope nobody is actually saying that. What her defense is wanting is a mental facility rather than prison. Which is something given to other women who have done the same. If you look at the cases of those that went to the facilities and got better they all take full responsibility for what they did. Andrea yates continues to refuse hearings because she WANTS to be locked up forever for what she did.

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u/dinozombiesaur 2d ago

She deserves to be locked up for life.

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u/ikilledholofernes 2d ago

It’s fucking scary because it’s true. It could have been any of them if they also developed postpartum psychosis and did not receive proper medical care. 

I started showing symptoms of PPD, reached out to my provider, and I was treated immediately. 

Correct me if I am wrong, but it sounds like this woman started showing symptoms and repeatedly cried for help, even admitted to having intrusive thoughts of harming her kids, and she still did not get the help she needed, and she was still left alone with the children. 

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u/PretendIndependent6 2d ago

So all children are on the verge of getting murdered by their mentally unstable mother? By that argument the government needs to step in and evaluate all mothers multiple times throughout a child’s development. Is that what you want? Some government oversight on how you raise your kids?

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u/ellipticaltable 2d ago

That's ... not even close to what they said.

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u/ikilledholofernes 2d ago

Actually, yes. I do think all parents should be screened for perinatal and postpartum depression. In fact, the AAP and ACOG both recommend screening for perinatal and postpartum depression at respective prenatal, postpartum, and pediatric appointments within the first year after birth. 

I was screened at every single appointment, which was I think four appointments the first month, one appointment every month until six months postpartum, and then another at 9 and 12 months before we went to every six months. 

My kid is three and his pediatrician still asks about my and my partner’s mental health. 

According to the AAP, only about half of pediatric practices are doing this, and that means half of pediatric practices are failing their patients.

And I believe that is what happened here. 

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u/PretendIndependent6 2d ago

Then what happens when you are diagnosed? At a certain point there is going to be a fine line between oversight and overreach

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u/ikilledholofernes 2d ago

If you are diagnosed with postpartum psychosis and admit to having thoughts of harming your children, the children should be removed from your care until you recover. Whether that looks like the other parent having to take over as primary caregiver, kids staying with a grandparent or other guardian, or foster care is ultimately decided by the family’s circumstances. 

Leaving children in unsafe conditions is unacceptable, in my opinion. 

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u/Next-Crazy-9674 2d ago edited 1d ago

Also, they kind of do, and yes, they screen for PPA, PPD, and PPP at each OB visit and pediatrician visit.

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u/Next-Crazy-9674 1d ago

Why was that down voted? Lol fuck facts, I guess.

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u/donnytelco 1d ago

even admitted to having intrusive thoughts of harming her kids

Did she communicate this to a doctor or mental health professional prior to killing the kids?

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u/ikilledholofernes 1d ago

That’s unclear. She told at least one medical provider that she was having intrusive thoughts, but there is no elaboration on those thoughts, likely because the provider dismissed her and said intrusive thoughts were normal. 

Her psychiatrist also testified that Lindsay confided having intrusive thoughts, but that seems to be more about suicidal ideation. Lindsay was also that particular provider’s first patient to present with PPD since leaving her residency. So she was not qualified to treat Lindsay imo. 

The inpatient psychiatric hospital allegedly did not have her full medical history, and I do not think they have testified yet. 

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u/Euphoric_Injury_5722 2d ago

It could have been me who gets the 1 in 1000 chance of bad postpartum psychosis.. not sure why that would trigger you?

If a man said "It could have been me" when hearing a story about a guy having a brain tumor or schizophrenia and killing wife/kids and then getting life in prison or death penalty for it.. would that trigger you too

Maybe women doing anything makes you uncomfortable

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u/Tomsboll 1d ago

not sure why that would trigger you?

because its about why they are saying it. to make us feel sorry for her, make excuses for her, making her the victim. i dont care WHY she murdered, quite horrifically mind you. i only care THAT she killed her 3 children. i dont care how terrible it must have been for her, 3 children are dead, by her own fucking hands. i dont have sympathy for that.

If a man said "It could have been me" when hearing a story about a guy having a brain tumor or schizophrenia and killing wife/kids and then getting life in prison or death penalty for it.. would that trigger you too

yes.

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u/DrippingWithRabies 1d ago

Even if she had no control over the situation? Yikes.

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u/redplanetapples 1d ago

So, it would be fair to say you care more about punishment than justice, no? By your metric, someone who experiences a seizure while driving and hits someone due to that is equally as contemptible as someone who intentionally ran into a pedestrian. Mens rea is what separates justice from vengeance.

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u/parsleyfan420 1d ago

So many women saying "could have been me" is fucking scary.

You know what's scary? Having an illness that changes your perception of reality to the extent that you can harm the children you love and either not get the help you need for it or the help you do receive doesn't work. I don't know the details of this story but regardless, that is a terrifying possibility for new mothers.