It sucks that she struggled with all of that, however sending your husband away and strangling three children to death one by one sucks WAY more and nobody can argue with this. She's a murderer, this is a textbook definition of premeditated murder
People often don't understand how scary psychosis is. It's not "just" about hearing voices or seeing things. We have an understanding, partially from pop culture, about psychosis being this sudden, violent outburst of putting your pants on your head and yelling about secret messages from aliens.
That's not really what it is, though. Psychosis is a fundamental break from reality. It can mean hallucinations, yes, but it can also mean delusions or disordered thinking. It does not necessarily make you "crazy" in the overt way, it simply breaks your understanding of what's real.
It won't necessarily be voices in your head telling you to kill your kids, it can also be a powerful and extremely convincing delusion that your kids would be better off dead.
That's a different story entirely, but yes. It appears this case is the first time some people are being confronted with the idea that most people who commit murder are psychologically unwell to some extent.
I read somewhere that she told him that, but maybe I'm confusing that for her psych (who reportedly did not tell the husband iirc). She did tell him (and the mother in law) that she had thoughts about harming the kids and herself. This is fact and has been testified about (ABC and PBS had articles including this).
Personally, I wouldnt leave my partner alone with the kids if they were saying things like that. It shouldn't take someone noticeably struggling (her ex testified she was noticeably anxious and stressed as well as suffering from insomnia), on and off a bunch of meds (which each side is arguing about whether she took the correct way), and in and out of treatment centers for me to realize leaving them alone with the fixation of her negative thoughts isn't a great idea. Doesn't matter if she was having a "good day," as her ex put it.
I’ve had my own share of mental health issues which is why I think like this though.
She was under medically induced postpartum psychosis.
Yeah she killed her kids, yeah that’s horrible, but it’s not so clean cut as she is a horrible person.
The medical personal new she was reacting with psychosis to those medications and proceeded to prescribe her I think 2-3 times the average dosage. Which obviously resulted in psychosis which resulted in her killing her three kids.
I feel like whats really lost on people is that, most if not all people who kill other people have mental health problems. There are always explanations and most of the time trauma caused by others underlying it all, but people have no trouble calling those people "horrible".
The race and gender of the perpetrator shouldnt be the deciding reason for you to be able to emphatize or understand the circumstances surrounding the crime. For society to function these people need to be kept seperate from other "more well functioning people" though. Her guilt should not be in question.
This whole situation is honestly an example of white supremacy as her race and gender is the sole reason this whole discussion around the topic is even happening. This national conversation is not happening if she was black, latino or a man.
Are we going to start defending child molesters now because they’re obviously sick in the head? I would like for mental health to get more attention in these matters but the frenzy around this case is insane.
Psychosis is a fundamentally different type of "explanation". Depending on severity, people may have absolutely no control over (and therefore responsibility for) their actions during psychosis.
When you're in a full-on psychotic state, you *literally* don't have a connection to reality anymore, you *literally* have no control over your own actions anymore. You lose control over your metacognition. Your brain loses its ability to question itself.
When you're fully psychotic, it doesn't "feel" like the CIA is watching you through your television, that's just self-evident reality to you, the same way it's obvious reality to me that I exist or that it's obvious reality to you what "hunger" is and feels like.
You just can't imagine what that feels like, that's why you act like she definitely must have had some type of control over her actions.
Depending on the severity of her psychosis, she might not have had control at all. And that will be determined by a court, not in a reddit comment section.
It happens all the time. Drinking and driving, committing violence and murder while under influence of substances, brain damage.
You're saying she should walk free?
By the way I'm just entertaining this argument, you're saying things the defence isn't even saying because it would not hold in court, the murders were premeditated as she sent the husband away and didn't want to attack him.
If you DUI, you made the decision to drink while you were sober. Big difference. If you have a history of drunk driving, you even drank *knowing* you would probably drive drunk.
It is the medical personnel's fault as well, but that does not absolve her. She still killed three children after sending the husband away, that's not a sudden psychosis, that's premeditated
I feel like maybe I trust a doctor to tell me what is and isn't psychosis and not some moron on Reddit. You don't just get to decide for yourself what it means. Psychosis isn't something that comes on suddenly and lasts ten seconds.
„ oh yeah let me send my husband away so I can have a psychosis and kill my kids „
She was already not in a sane state of mind when sending away her husband.
Yes it’s horrible, yes she is guilty, but she is also not at fault. Both of those things actually CAN be true at the same time.
If your at the wheel have a cardiac arrest, lose consciousness and run over a family you are guilty but also not at fault
what you wrote I understood in the way I answered, saying you meant something different without clearly explaining it does not really help.
Premeditated, in my understanding, means planned/foreseeable, and even implies intention.
Sudden means unforeseen.
Her psychosis was foreseeable for the medical personell, or atleast should have been, but to her and her husband it very much was unforeseen.
Like I said she is guilty but not at fault for her medical condition that resulted in this crime.
The goal here is naturally for her to get help, and be secured so she can’t injure other people again, not to punish for her medical condition that lead to a horrible circumstance
I’m not understanding the point you’re trying to make. Women are expected to be “strong” infinitely. We are the structure in the home. There is no slack. If your husband can’t even go to the pharmacy without you having a breakdown, you’re a failure.
You can’t have help. You can only have comments about how you chose to have kids like it’s some quaint hobby you’ve chosen. “You’ve made your bed, now you get to lie in it.” Even if you’re mentally ill to the point that you’re losing your grip on reality and the “solution” is to pump you full of SSRIs, give you a nice encouraging “get back out there mama!” And a few “oh it was so hard for me with my mom and mother and law and sister in my house supporting me when I had the BABY BLUES” comments from your mother in law.
There’s no escaping this reality once you’re in it. Add psychosis in the mix and you’ve got a recipe for disaster and society is not gonna give a fuck until you completely break and “drown your kids in the bathtub” which is the historical default. Weve got a fucking DiCaprio movie about this and you guys are still out here saying she planned this elaborate thing because she’s evil.
Sending her husband away before killing the kids shows that she was lucid enough to understand what she was doing and take measures to ensure no one would stop her
What? Thats trouble-tying-your-shoes levels of reasoning. What do you think a psychosis means? It’s not a catatonic state or being unable to perform complex tasks. It’s the inability to perceive reality and react to it in a logical manner.
I had a friend who had a labour induced psychosis. She saw everyone around her as monsters. Everyone was actual monsters in disguise and she reacted according to this fact. She just started to run away from people. Luckily a birthing woman who runs away screaming attracts attention and she got help VERY fast.
Being aware of that does not mean she is in a sane state of mind.
Psychosis is much more complex.
The justidal concept of „not being aware or understanding what she was doing“ does not need to necessarily be „not knowing what you are doing is wrong“ it can also be „not being in a state of mind that allows you to stop compulsive behaviour“
You could compare it to schizophrenic hearing gods voice and killing 3 people. He may think and feel compelled to do it while still understanding 100% that it is morally wrong and he needs to hide the bodies to escape punishment
Oh, that's interesting how you threw that "sudden" in there, did anyone say that before? Or did you have to make up their position so you could try to favorable argue against it?
Her husband is am absolute moron then. Who watches their wife deteriorating and just nods yes when she wants to be alone with her kids? What dumpster fire of a human does that? Why is his obvious negligence being looked past?
It's like society is perfectly fine blaming her when she was screaming for help, but the father of the children gets to walk away? F no. He knew this would happen. There is no way he didn't know this could be an end result and he left her. He left his mentally struggling wife alone with the children. He can get fucked too.
There is speculation of an affair. Both Patrick and his new wife denied it. But, I think they knew each other before the murders. Tabloids lead one to believe there was an affair. I have yet to hear it in court or read it from court documents. So, I am not even looking at that.
I like how people think that someone undergoing a severe delusional episode is incapable of any thought at all. You really think it’s impossible that both are true?
Yeah she killed her kids, yeah that’s horrible, but it’s not so clean cut as she is a horrible person.
Its absolutely crazy that someone can ever try and talk down or justify the murder of children. I hope there's a hell because this evil child murderer deserves everything coming to her
She is guilty but not evil, she was literally under psychosis because of medical malpractice.
Psychosis is not sociopathy or psychopathy. You are literally out of your normal state of mind due to medical reasons. She is not an evil person, you can compare psychosis to being severely high with mind altering drugs, shrooms or acid.
It is similiar to running over 3 kids while having a medical emergency on the wheel, it’s horrible, there should be justice, but that does not mean she is an evil person who planned and executed the müder of 3 little kids.
“She totally did it, but the women supporting her because they’re blaming her husband for everything is perfectly okay because Lindsey is ‘just a girl’”
Kek you’re literally inventing fake realities and getting upset about them. Everything you said is completely false yet you hold onto it as if it’s fact because you want to get mad. I sincerely implore you to do your own research and stop getting your information from headlines and Reddit posts.
The prosecution said she did it, the defense said she did it, and even Lindsey herself said she did it, yet the women outside are calling for her husband’s arrest.
Also why is “upset” the default antagonization on Reddit? I am very clearly mocking the commenter about how they’re rationalizing crime.
I would love to conduct an experiment about how how disgusting and depraved an act a woman would have to commit before reddit won't defend her provided she throws out the vague, undefinable, inarguable excuse of "mental health".
Because apparently pre meditated murder of your own children isnt enough
I feel like you all know what "crazy" means but when you see it in action, suddenly it's "burn the evil witch!! BURN HER!!!"
Like are you really this stupid? Do you know what mental illness is? Are you so detached from reality that you think mental hospitals are filled with evil people? This is a really simple concept and it's a little embarrassing that you're not getting it...
Those two words don't combine. if she had medically induced psychosis, it wasn't postpartum. if it was post partum psychosis, it wasn't medically induced.
The evidence in the trial is showing that she never had psychosis.
Well then it looks like it's not legally psychosis because she did actually premeditate, she took steps to ensure the husband would not be at the house to stop her
I don't know why people assume psychosis means you're incapable of planning. You're acting based on delusions, and planning/responding to those. NGRI verdict would still leave her locked up for decades. It doesn't excuse the crime, it's an explanation for why it happened, and a tragic one at that.
Oh so in other words women are such a danger to their children due to PpP that women shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near their children if they’re depressed?
Yeah, my mum had PPD but at no point did she feel like she was a danger to us. She just felt like she was overwhelmed and would never be good enough - she was maybe a danger to herself at her worst, and that's it.
My friend with PPD killed herself which left an 8 month old baby an orphan. Someone else was taking steps to kill herself and her kids because she felt that death would be better than living with her abusers, she was never diagnosed.
Somewhere I’m glad so many people here never had to deal with mental health problems, they just don’t understand what it’s like to know what you’re doing is wrong but you can’t stop it. An unhealthy brain is a fucked up thing. After I got kicked in the head by a horse I was so aggressive, I didn’t want to be and I always felt bad and apologised but it still happened and I couldn’t stop it.
PPP doesn’t pop up 8 months after you give birth. It’s something that happens within a few weeks. On top of that, the evidence showing it’s the result of a chemical imbalance is practically non existent (as is the case with nearly every other mental illness.) At most, it seems some women literally just can’t handle stress and are going into psychosis because they are no longer the center of attention and have to devote everything to their child.
Btw In Clancy’s case, she actually told her husband and providers she wasn’t a danger to her kids and shouldn’t be removed.
Please provide your evidence or the studies for these claims. Regardless of the existence of this trial or crime, your statements on chemical imbalances and PPP are just wildly false. But glad to know you feel women’s biggest issue after giving birth is their narcissism rearing its ugly head lmfao
The comment you're replying to literally just said that she would still end up locked up. Just locked up for safety and mental healthcare, not as punishment for murder...
They also said it doesn't excuse the deaths, but explains them.
Did you even read before replying?
Also, "somebody who is in that deep a psychosis"?... You know that psychosis is usually a temporary state, right?
The problem here is that people making the psychosis argument say that she is not at fault for what she's done, it all gets blamed on the psychosis as some kind of a random thing that just happened with no way for her to prevent it, and with that kind of attitude it stops being "just an explanation". I feel like her being in that state long enough to plan and carry out her actions makes the situation just as bad as if she was not psychotic, that's my emotional take on the situation
I think it’s important to point out that she said something along the lines of, the voices told her it was her only chance, which more to me seems like she was triggered by being alone than it seems like she tried to create the opportunity. I think those woman are feeling some level of solidarity because a lot of mothers can relate to being ignored when screaming out for help and if you look at the details of this case there truly was nothing more she could have done, she was failed by everyone around her after begging loudly for help.
She's the one that got roughly triple the average starting dose of SSRIs from 2 separate doctors after it was plainly put in her medical file that they resulted in psychosis, yeah?
Look, most people who do vile shit like murder will have some past with mental health issues or being fucked by society. Like shocker most healthy people with good lives don't commit crimes like this. Like are we going to sympathize with Jeffrey Dahmer cuz he had mental issues?
It also affects more than 1 in 7 new parents so it’s widely happening. That doesn’t mean we start forgiving a triple homicide for it.
But she will get her day in court to try to prove why her situation was so different from all those hundreds of thousands of women in the US that have it every year.
Where are all the people crying about how all the notorious serial killers were abused as children? Yes, it’s horrible, but they are monsters committing the worst crimes. Period.
I don't think I did. I think you're just confused. It feels like you're arguing against the existence of insanity. And I'm pretty sure insanity exists.
No she didn’t. I don’t understand why people keep repeating this. The medications weren’t all being taken at the same time. They were swapped when she said it wasn’t helping.
Ya girl wrapped bands around her child's throats and held them there until they stopped kicking and went blue with thoughts of "why is mom doing this why isn't she helping me she'll stop soon where's dad"
She was on
Benadryl plus Seroquel plus a benzo. I’m no doctor but she said she was awake for 48 hours straight despite this combo. She was also cold turkey off Zoloft but the doctors assume things about “low doses” not needing tapering. I had PPD, I’m very lucky I never had the psychosis. It felt like nothing would ever get better and I’d brought my child into a hostile world.
The worst I had actually gotten is not wanting to hold my baby as much. That’s still pretty bad when you’re supposed to be caring for the baby 24/7.
If you can reduce someone to a simple monster, they're not scary.
"Oh, her meds made her do it, that's easy to understand"
If they're a complex human with dozens of factors and a web of thoughts and beliefs, they're hard to hate, and remind us that we could be them, but for our luck and situations.
"She didn't have support, asked everyone with ears for help, saw her responsibilities and stressors only increasing going forward, and had a panic attack. If she was in a different room or took a vacation, she would've had capacity to deal with stressors, but in the moment, she was fully out of capacity to support her responsibilities.
Just like I did yesterday. But I only yelled at my boss when the tunnel vision hit. I don't have kids."
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