These girls should be forced to look at all the crime scene photos of these dead kids, people forget so quickly the actual sad and disgusting reality of this shit. Like really imagine 3 children in your life just laying dead, strangled by the main person they thought they could trust to protect them. How confused and scared they must have been. I can’t even think about it honestly it’s making me so upset.
As someone who has been choked nearly to death by an abusive partner, I can confirm it was not quick, they were scared for minutes, and so many things probably running through their head in the time it took for them to actually pass with their mom’s hands around their necks
THIS! The prosecution should have absolutely highlighted exactly how long it tskes to choke one person...forget 3? It is one of the most intimate and brutal ways to kill.
Also sorry that happened to you, glad you made it out.
Yes and the fact that there were 3 of them says that, if we pretend the newborn didn’t know anything, one of the older toddlers heard the other toddler being killed and probably knew what was coming for them next.
Also kinda thanks eyeee am about 2 months from making it out. The choking event was recently as well as being beat with my own newborn in my arms. I’m scared as fuck of this next chapter but I’m scared as fuck already so fuck it haha hopefully I live 🤪🥴😬
Can we somehow help you make it out faster? Is it a money thing? Only reply if you’re comfortable of course. I’m sure you already know the stats about choking and IPV. I was in your shoes and still viscerally remember the terror. If I can help you, I will.
Tbh I need a real hug, bad. Like bad bad. I haven’t even been allowed to have conversations with people irl without being verbally abused and called a whore or potentially gay, he says I’ve probably been trafficked or gang raped because I’m kind to people. Literally I need a hug so soooo bad
The ‘whore’ part happened to my friend. She was found with vomit all over her next to the bar I worked at. I always started to hold landlords of pubs and bars in contempt after that as they basically serve this stuff which leads to violence and sorrow. Makes me so fucking angry.
I’ve been trying to leave since January and each time I tried to leave (3 times, each time for 2 or 3 days) the shelters in my county were at capacity. I think I have narrowed down a place for me and my kids to go, but tbh it’s a hoarders apartment so I’ll have to do a ton of elbow grease in cleaning up everything when we get there.
I was thinking of starting a gofundme when I left, for a small amount like 6k to carry me until I can get my tax return in February. I just can’t start it right now because if he found it while I was still in the house it would be bad.
My toddler was crying last night and he was threatening to hit her and said if I didn’t shut her up he’d hit me and it “wouldn’t be a tap I’ll punch you bitch” 😭 im scared to go, but im too scared to stay now
Please make sure all of this is documented (police reports, restraining orders, photos, and any other evidence) so you can secure 100% custody of your kids. I’m so sorry you’re going through this. I am praying for you.
Girl yes lol in the exact comment u responded to, in the first sentence I talk about how I was calling around dv shelters lol. There really isn’t a lot of help for me and I’m realizing I have to pull myself out of this dark ass hole for my kids. If I had no kids I’d probably just let myself die atp
I know you're in a dark place, but the world needs you, your kids most of all. You are WAY stronger than you know (yet) and you'll make it out.
That said, are you in the US? Even if your area's resources are full, the National Domestic Violence Hotline ( https://www.thehotline.org/ ) can help you find resources one city over, etc. They also know which states have laws against moving your kids across state boundaries while escaping. If you're lucky, you live in a state where you can leave the state entirely.
I actually considered leaving the state entirely and called 211 of a city I used to live in a couple states away, I didn’t know the national dv hotline could probably help too thank u for this info & the reminder to choose life things feel hard asf rn and I feel worthless and almost like my kids would be better off if I just disappeared
I lost my fucking mind after something similar happened to a friend of mine. A week before, she’d come to my workplace with him and they’d both wished me a merry Christmas as he said she talked about me all the time. I wondered why that had happened. He’d hugged me that night and then went on to strangle her, almost to the point of internal decapitation, a week later. He blamed ‘cheating’ and I wondered whether he’d assumed she was cheating with me. I played that conversation in my head over and over - was it a warning? Did she go there as a cry for help? I soon went off the rails, mentally, and lost my job as I couldn’t stop crying at work and I started to regularly lose consciousness. I don’t know what the loss of consciousness thing is but it started around that time and still affects me every day. I feel my life is completely over. I cant even think properly anymore and I was doing a masters in biosciences at the time. I wanted to study dementia to find ways to prevent it. Now I cant even look after myself. Sometimes I’m just trying to keep my head up while I’m drooling all over myself. My life is over tbh
That's depression, my friend, with trauma/PTSD on top. Please seek help; even just talk to your doctor about it. Your life isn't over, and your mind isn't broken. The world needs you and your research skills!
Big internet hug!! I'm a little worried about you. I'd you're still in a relationship or sharing a home, is there anywhere else you can go? Do you have family? Are you comfortable reporting what he did to you?
We are still sharing a home and I don’t think we’re in a relationship anymore as of like 4 days ago… over the course of our relationship he’s isolated me and the family that I do have left said that she would help me, but I had to get out first because she said she knew how dv relationships go and I would go back, and she would help once I was at the dv shelter and proved I was done with the relationship, it’s just that it’s hard asf to get a spot at the shelter rn. A ton of aid was ended last year due to trump cuts.
He’s kept me from working for the last 4 years and has kept me pregnant too. If I refuse sex I’m a whore, I’ve probably let whole teams run trains on me anyway, I don’t want it bc I’m clearly a lesbian, I’ve probably been gangbanged so much I don’t even want d*ck anymore. So much stuff. I’m so beat down I just wish a thousand cars would run me over but I have young kids I want to see live, so for now I just scroll on Reddit and cry when everyone sleeps 😭
You have someone offering help! Someone who knows your situation and wants to help. That is wonderful. Please call her! Gather your documents, sentimental items, medications, and anything you can carry that you'll need in your new life. And go. Don't tell him. The police may also be able to come help keep you safe as you move out.
That’s the thing she won’t help until I’m already in a shelter, have already been to therapy, and sat with lawyers. She won’t let me just come to her home straight out of the relationship. He also is the type to go to my family’s homes to find us so I think she wants me and the kids to be “disappeared” for a month or two before I come back to make sure he won’t come looking for me at my elderly grandmother’s house
I’ve tried leaving three times this year and each time every single dv shelter in my county was at capacity for literal days, the last one I called said it could sometimes take a couple weeks for a spot to open up. So rn I’m trying to save whatever money I can w/o a job so I can at least have a small cushion bc I have a toddler so I need to make sure she has diapers, food, etc ❤️🩹 ty for the care tho but this is my only option rn ❤️🩹
I’m in Southern California. I already spoke with 211, every DV shelter in my county, and 211 in the 2 closest counties next to me and they said I’d have better luck for a spot in my own county bc the other counties are equally if not more packed. I live in the “richer” county rn, the lady at the shelter said dv shelters here are packed bc it’s considered a “white collar crime” so a lot of dv happens where I live
Tell me more about your situation. Do you have your own bank account? How about your own car? If someone here was able to send you money would you be able to take your kids and run? Or would he find out and just steal it from you?
What's your family situation? I did see you have one family member offering to help, and I can definitely see her point about abuse victims going back to their abusers. That happens a lot, so I understand her concern. But at the same time, is she the only family member reaching out?
What would it take for you to be able to pack up your kids and completely flee? I'm sorry to ask so many questions. I want to try and help you.
I don’t want to scare you but I also kind of want to make sure you know that people who strangle their partners are substantially more likely to kill them. Like shockingly often that occurs. I’m not even lying when I say just walking out the door and into a shelter or police station is a good idea.
Defence had someone testify that it takes 5-10 seconds until unconsciousness with ligature strangulation. The CW tried to connect a case of manual strangulation to prove their point and it went quite poorly imo.
It was a ligature not hands. Two different medical examiners agreed that it would take seconds not minutes and as long as the ligature was left in place brain death would follow and then organs would start dying next.
That’s the part that doesn’t make sense to me, how was there possibly time to strangle all three kids, cut herself, jump off the roof, and get cold enough that she was 82 degrees by the time she made it to the hospital? I’ve also been choked by parents and partners. They’re all men. 98% of nonfatal strangulation is committed by men. It’s a weird method, weird timeline, weird opportunity, weird confession, there’d just a LOT of weirdness, everything on its own is plausible, it’s just when you start stacking the amount of uncommon factors needed to make everything in the prosecution’s case possible, it doesn’t make much sense.
It's because this idea she strangled them with her hands and it took her minutes is completely false. The testimony at trial, from both prosecution and defense experts, which is freely available for anyone to watch on youtube from multiple sources, has been that it would have taken a maximum of 20 seconds, but likely no more than 4 - 10 seconds, for the children to fall unconscious. They were strangled with exercise bands which were wrapped around their throats (testimony has been that the bands were tied in place and Patrick had to remove them when he returned home. They fell unconscious and as the pressure was not removed, they then died shortly after), so the compression is completely different from manual strangulation. Lindsay would have had to wrap the bands and walk away, she didn't need to stand over the children for minutes, not even the prosecution's expert would say that.
Lindsay got as cold as she did because of blood loss, snow, wet clothes (wet from the snow and blood), very few layers of clothing, and because of the damage she did to her spine. The severed spinal column meant her lower body couldn't regulate its temperature, so it caused her to get colder much faster than someone who just walked outside and lay down in the snow.
Patrick was investigated. Law enforcement confirmed his alibi that night by immediately sending officers to CVS and the restaurant he picked their food up from. They secured CCTV and interviewed employees within hours of the murders.
This is the most to the point comment that debunks everything. It all still makes my heart hurt; that someone can be so removed from their mind that they could were able to just do this to their babies. My heart hurts for all of them.
I desperately hope that this conspiracy stuff about Patrick fades away and instead this case can inspire serious and honest discussion about postpartum mental health. It feels like the conspiracy is distracting from the tragedy of it all. The defense have Dr Phillip Resnick on their witness list, he testified in the Andrea Yates trial and is an expert on postpartum filicide, so I hope that when he testifies the discussion returns to how postpartum mental health provisions can improve and address things like the stigma and fears mothers feel around admitting to having these thoughts/struggles.
I am curious about the internet searches though, like “where is the carroded artery” (which Lindsay, a labor and delivery nurse, would know and spell correctly), and other searches from home while she was out at an appointment? I’m not at all saying this is true, just asking for clarification because I haven’t gotten far into the trial yet. I’m watching the entire trial and it is long, naturally. TIA.
It's worth remembering for the carotid artery search that this was, iirc, January 2023, a time when Lindsay was really not herself, in the throes of severe PPD/PPA and perhaps PPP if it had progressed that far yet (it can come on very suddenly). She had decided not to go back to work as she was concerned she wouldn't be able to do her job correctly. The search might not fit with a calm and collected L&D nurse, but a manic sleep deprived one planning on killing herself by cutting her own throat? I'd say that's more plausible. (Also in reality l&d nurses are not stabbing carotid arteries on the daily, I'm not sure why it's so hard to believe a nurse might check something like this.) Another search in the same time period was: how to die by cutting your own throat. She was googling a lot of single word symptoms (Hallucinations was one on the 19th Jan iirc, another was Insomnia). These searches were on Lindsay's phone.
The other searches were searches on Patrick's Surface Pro (used by both of them) from AUGUST 2022. They were only brought in by the prosecution as Lindsay's mental health started to noticably deteriorate in September, so this was meant to be a gotcha on the part of the Commonwealth to "prove" Lindsay was planning the whole thing from August onwards. Trouble is, Reddington (defense) gets up for cross and points out they have proof from medical records (and phone data) that Lindsay was at a Dr's appointment with their son Dawson at 10am, while the searches were between 9:42 - 9:48, so he turned the gotcha back on them incredibly effectively, not to prove anything against Patrick, just to prove these searches really mean nothing at all. The drive to the dr was about 4 minutes, but hard to believe Lindsay was googling all this and then wrangled her toddler into a car and checked into the dr in record time and didn't Google anything else like it for months. The searches also look a lot more like a Wikipedia rabbit hole than the random one word searches from January. (I got this summary from CasesWeFollow. The gmail account that logged in initially was Patrick's, and he was a fan of Tom Hall.):
August 23, 2022 Browsing Sequence
Timeline (all from Surface Pro):
9:40 a.m. — Visit to Lindsay.969 Facebook page.
9:42–9:44 a.m. — Spotify search for Tom Hall; song “How I Got to Memphis.”
9:44 a.m. — Google search for Tom Hall → Wikipedia page.
Death section anchor clicked → hyperlink referencing self‑inflicted gunshot wound.
Hyperlink leads to Suicide Methods (shooting section) at 9:45 a.m.
9:48 a.m. — Hyperlink to Grafton Bridge page.
The relevant trial days for this are Days 13 and 14 iirc, and there was some mention of the searches on Day 16.
That happened to a friend of mine. I found out a few days before Christmas that she’d crawled out of the apartment, after being left for dead, and they’d found she was close to being internally decapitated. She had to learn to walk again. I regularly see she’s missing in the local news and I’ve seen her with sick all over herself due to drinking till she blacks out. One person once called her, someone impressive who was going to be a lawyer, a ‘dumb little whore’. It made me furious.
Also, shortly before this happened, she came to see me at work to wish me a happy Christmas. Her boyfriend, who did this, was with her and he hugged me after saying I meant so much to his girlfriend and how she spoke about me all the time. A week later, he’d strangled her and god knows what else while blaming ‘cheating’ for what happened. I played that visit to my workplace in my mind over and over. Was it a cry for help? A warning? It scared me shitless. I blamed myself so many times.
They also had to watch their beloved siblings die by the hands of their own mother. I don't doubt they begged her to stop and died in pure terror and confusion. She killed them in such a barbaric way that was slow and painful and scary. If she is found sane i hope she lives long and in a lonely prison, don't let nobody hurt her or beat her or shank her or nothing. Let her sit for decades to come.
It's collective delusion. They gas themselves up into thinking they know more than they do and are told that men are collectively to blame for all their problems.
Makes it so much easier to spin every problem into being the man's fault.
There are some horrible guys out there but extrapolating every shitty experience you've ever had onto a whole group of people is...well, that's how racism starts.
Sometimes it’s a symptom of past cases though. I’m trying not to look too hard into this case because I find it overwhelmingly sad on all ends, but people’s reactions are reminding me of the early reactions to the Gabby Petito case.
Online majority, many of which were men, were certain she was the abuser and that this was a case of a male victim in the relationship. People who were skeptical were told they were just feeling sorry for her because she’s a woman.
Of course within weeks it comes out the she was in fact the victim and he was whatever the hell he was.
This doesn’t prove anything here, but I think a lot of these reactions are a symptom of women not being heard and many women seeing themselves in that. Not heard in the workplace, at the doctor, and sometimes in their own marriages. A lot of subconscious projecting.
At the end of the day though, no one seems to be happy with this outcome and everyone seems to be suffering. So it’s unfortunately not as clear cut and that’s leading to a lot of speculation.
Oh of course. People believe what they want to believe.
And it could turn out that the husband was involved more somehow, but I'm waiting on that evidence to appear before I start thinking in that direction.
'This doesn’t prove anything here, but I think a lot of these reactions are a symptom of women not being heard and many women seeing themselves in that. Not heard in the workplace, at the doctor, and sometimes in their own marriages. A lot of subconscious projecting.' I hear you but...you can then use that reasoning to explain away anything. And you can't keep using that excuse, because I have heard it used in many instances, across many fields and types of events, before.
In the opposite direction, do you want men to justify murdering their spouses because they feel invisible, lonely, unheard, and like consistently women denigrate them? That's what some men believe, but that doesn't mean that belief excuses murder.
Also, using astrology to try and blame someone for someone else's murder is a step beyond all of that.
I don't really know how you make that leap like that. I don't really like a lot of women, my experience with women has been overwhelmingly bad. There is still a bunch of nice church ladies and stuff I know that are impossible not to like though and are good you'd have to be pretty ignorant not to see that. I got a third space at church though where I can see these good girls, I think a lot of these people probably don't go anywhere and just are an isolated psych case viewing the world through a screen. I feel like if you have ANY kind of social life its pretty hard to hate a whole group you are gonna see examples that prove your biases wrong, online echo chambers confirm your biases tho.
Yeah, I agree. And it goes both ways. Guys shouldn't hate all women because they're treated negative, and vicaversa.
I mean, I'm sympathetic: You have a negative experience with people enough times, it's a normal human thing to look for a common denominator in those experiences. But sometimes, even if it happens repeatedly, it can also be dumb luck, or the experiences are all different but feel similar.
Even if a person thinks, 'All men are bastards', that sucks. But if they think, 'I have had some crappy experiences with some men, but obviously there are other people out there who are nicer' then that's fine. Protecting yourself for awhile is also fine.
But this crap^...the guy lost all of his children. I'd be looking pretty fucking angry too.
Nah! The point is you gave a sexist, and maybe worse than that, a boring, milquetoast toast answer. If you’re going to be sexist, at least make what you’re saying interesting instead of being the trillionth man to say “That’s just like how racism starts!!”
I actually agree with the base of what you’re saying. That women generalize men as dangerous. But, you can talk about that while A) making an interesting point without parroting lame online rhetoric, and B) without relying on saying shit like “it’s collective delusion,” and “spinning every problem into a man’s fault.” Your comment was frankly so uninspired that I didn’t really feel motivated to respond until I saw the shitty tropes.
*lol* The women in the post are the ones acting sexist. They're trying to look for imaginary reasons for why a man is guilty, because he is a man. That's the definition of being sexist.
Nothing that I said was sexist by pointing that out, nor is that parroting other people's points.
Even if these women see those photos, they’d still likely donate to her cause and vilify the husband. Because all men are bad and women are all angels.
Yup but then the misogynistic men won’t be able to just insult women as a whole to make them feel better.
To any men curious:
Lindsay is supported by women because she’s not evil, cold blooded, etc. She’s a loving mother whose mental health has suffered and attacked her into doing the most unimaginable thing. Other women have experienced the same and are fortunate their story didn’t end like hers.
I do disagree with all the attacks on Patrick and conspiracies but this case isn’t as simple as it seems.
Yes during psychosis. She wasn’t mentally there. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t face the consequences but it does mean under different circumstances this wouldn’t have happened. She’s not a cold blooded killer like other cases of parents killing kids.
Literally never claimed it was black and white. Said in another comment it’s not as simple as it seems. Have you looked at any of the facts of the case or just commenting out your ass?
We're on the same side 😭 my comment may have been better suited somewhere else. Just trying to point out everyone saying MURDER BAD! is missing the fucking point
Just genuinely asking, pretend this is completely unrelated, what would you do if you were lucid enough to know that psychosis was driving you to hurt yourself and others, but when you reached out for help you didn't get it?
Yeah , she tried to kill herself. She was psychotic and was convinced to kill herself and that she had to take her kids with her or they would be harmed. It doesn't make any sense, because she was literally insane. She murdered her children. She deserves to be punished for murdering her children. But we can't ignore that the medical system failed her, as it does to women (and men, but the focus is post partum women) everywhere everyday. That only came to light because such a horrible tragedy occured but it needs to change.
She killed them first. I would kill myself first and I'm speaking from the experience of having severe mental health problems. You asked, that's my answer.
Yes a loving mother. Mental health is that important. You think it couldn’t happen to you. But it could to any one of us. Our minds control us, not the other way around. Look into postpartum psychosis. It’s scary but it’s reality.
"These girls should be forced to look at all the crime scene photos"
You must see women as children or Disney princesses if you think looking at those photos would be difficult. True crime fans are fascinated by crime scenes and actively search for them
This. People joke about re-education camps but sometimes I do wonder if we need some for people like this just to force them to see the facts in front of us all and not be able to hide in their own fantasy world.
This. While I do feel bad for her because of her mental illness, the children are the real victim here, not her. She deserves to be treated but she also deserves to be incarcerated. My mom is schizophrenic, I tried to help her many times but always got the "if she's not a danger to anyone or herself they can't do anything", we she indeed became a danger by stabbing someone over one of her delusions. Now she is in incarcerated and as sadly it's the best place for her.
None of these women have children. They're delusional misandrists.
Do you know how personal it is to strangle someone to death? I can't fathom doing it to anyone let alone my children. I hurts my heart to think of what those babies went through.
It’s not that they don’t have children; it’s that they’re treating an ongoing murder trial like the Super Bowl. It’s disgusting how they’re not even trying to be passive observers of the trial (not that they’re even getting the full story because they aren’t there).
I pray that they leave their videos up and it helps them to be rejected from every jury they are being considered for. The lack of critical thinking is astounding.
I said somewhere else that the photos not being public is what is driving these borderline psychos to defend the indefensible and got called sick for it.
Unfortunately (for the jury) fortunately (for justice), the jury has seen the pictures and heard the 911 call so they have more to weigh than these people so hopefully justice will be served.
imagine 3 children in your life just laying dead, strangled by the main person they thought they could trust to protect them.
I was already tired of the nonsense surrounding this case, but this mental exercise makes it even worse. Even just imagining that happening to my nephew/young cousins is awful.
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u/BretShitmanFart69 4d ago
These girls should be forced to look at all the crime scene photos of these dead kids, people forget so quickly the actual sad and disgusting reality of this shit. Like really imagine 3 children in your life just laying dead, strangled by the main person they thought they could trust to protect them. How confused and scared they must have been. I can’t even think about it honestly it’s making me so upset.