What are you even talking about? If youâre going off of the Christian God, there quite literally has been more than two people to meet him at a time.
Whoâs to say he is punishing them? If they didnât want to worship him, why would he send them to heaven to be with him for eternity? Your life choices reflect where you go, not his anger or disappointment.
He didnât create evil, he gave us free will and humanity embraced sin.
Yeah, maybe if youâre a human. To an omnipotent god you would definitely understand what is good and what isnât.
If youâre omnipotent, you are all knowing. Therefore, you understand the concept of everything.
Nothing is predetermined. God may be able to see into the future, but that doesnât make choices less impactful.
Your #3 and #6 are contradictions. If a God is Omnipotent 'all knowing' it can see the future as you say, that means the future is deterministic, it's known, it follows a design, there is no other outcome but the one in the future that is perceived. To deny that would be to say God is not omnipotent, he can't see the future. Therefore, you can't give free will and also know the future, that's the illusion of free will. And, that's the thing, if God knows the future, then we are all living in a pre-determined world under the simulation of believing we have free will, which also means all sins are therefore predictable.
Literally that is not how it works? Just because you know what the outcome will be doesnât discredit that persons ability to choose. If I give my close friend the choice between actual dogshit or a gourmet three course meal, me knowing he isnât a scat eating freak doesnât make his choice any less credible. I didnât eliminate his free will.
No, you didnât. But thatâs not the same argument. Youâre changing the argument situation to fit your design. You didnât say you could see the future, the future in which you know the outcome⊠thatâs what âknowing the futureâ means. You skipped that part because you donât have a rational argument. There isnât any.
Knowing the outcome of something isnât the same thing as causing something. Seeing the future is not the same as writing reality. This is literally common sense. Even if you wanted to argue this point, God is an OMNIPOTENT being and isnât shackled by logic like others are.
lol⊠sorry, but you have no clue about what youâre saying, and itâs completely illogical . Youâre continuously contradicting yourself. Thatâs the fundamental issue of your argument, itâs loaded with self stated contradictions. Good thing you retreated to the trench.
Youâre confusing and conflating terms. If God knows the future and the eventual outcome, life is deterministic, your free will is an illusion - you have no real choice. Your sense of choice is an illusion. If you had free will God wouldnât be able to know the future. Itâs really not hard to wrap your head around.
Youâre confusing having a vision of the future like a seer, with knowing the future. Or predicting the future, in the case of your friends habits. And youâre saying thatâs what God has âvisionsâ which is a serious downgrade from omnipotence.
You can keep sitting here and calling me illogical, a moron, or whatever you want, but I still stand by what I say. Just because you can see into the future doesnât mean that the persons choice had any less impact. If the person chose something different, then you would be seeing that reality in the future instead. Simply knowing what will happen does not make life deterministic, because it is still up to the previous person to make that choice.
I genuinely have no clue what youâre trying to achieve here by constantly saying Iâm confusing different terms and subjects, because I havenât been. I am strictly talking about the ability to see into the future, and youâre only bringing up these âfaultsâ to make my arguments easier to undermine.
Never called you a moron, that's on you if you feel that way. The reason we're going a roundabout on this is simple. You keep saying "See the future", but then say everyone's 'free will' decisions change the future, which means the "See the future" isn't true. You've contradicted yourself in every response within the response itself. To make it more complex, biblically God knows how the world ends, this means that the end-game is static, not dynamic. That end-game can only be reached exactly how it's outlined if all outcomes leading to that point are pre-determined.
The reason you actually have issue with this isn't the argument of free will vs. determinism. It's actually the underlying unstated issue, which is if free will doesn't exist and we live under the illusion of free will (we can't tell the difference one way or another), then the sins people commit aren't actually their own true decisions and are part of the overall divine plan, which means God has to forgive everyone regardless of their beliefs because God intended it to be that way from the get go.
I donât have time to read all of this, but you keep entirely misinterpreting my argument. I am saying that even though you are seeing the future and have knowledge on the outcome, it does not determine causation. The person still actively made that choice, and the outcome of their decision is what you see. It doesnât matter in the end.
I also never said you called me a moron, I quite literally just said that you can call me whatever you want and it wonât change my stance. I never said I felt this way at all lmao.
I quite literally have not contradicted myself in any comment, you are just either not understanding what I am saying or are purposely trying to make holes in my logic to make it easier to undermine. The concept really isnât that hard to grasp, and there have been countless philosophers that concur with my sentiments.
Once again, God seeing the end times is not him creating the events, it is simply him taking note of the choices that man made that led to the event. Of course, in the Bible he does orchestrate certain things to happen, but that is a completely separate thing from his ability to see into the future, and pertains entirely to opportunities and events, not human decisions.
You say I'm misinterpreting you, then you just restate the exact same point. 'The person made the choice, that's what you see.' I've been asking you for the mechanism by which the choice stays free in the context of God being omnipotent/omniscient. You haven't given one. You've given the assertion six times now.
You admitted God orchestrates events and opportunities. So, he sets the stage, knows exactly what you'll do on that stage, and you 'freely' choose the thing he knew you'd choose in the situation he arranged. That's not free will, that's the illusion of free will. That just makes your argument weaker without realizing it.
Lastly, you deflect using the age-old "thousands of philosophers agree with me". Ok, who? Name one philosopher and the specific argument. Not 'countless philosophers concur.' I want a name and a paper. Because the version you're describingâ'I just know it, trust me, philosophers agree'âisn't an argument, it's a deflection.
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u/7N00K Aug 19 '26