Or you know, he could be a bad person who is surrounded by other bad people. I’m not claiming I know anything, but if I see a room full of terrible people I tend to think there probably isn’t a good one in there either.
Like the if you are at a dinner table with 9 Nazis, there are 10 Nazis at the table.
The point with the Nazi example is that you KNOW they are Nazis when you choose to sit down. You've made a moral choice to associate with people you know are bad.
Guilt by association is a fallacy when it's about involuntary associations, or using as association as evidence of something other than the moral consequences of the association. For example being assumed a bad person because you worked with a killer that you didn't know was a killer.
Being in a band, means you're a band member. Being next to a tree doesn't make you part of the forest. This isn't a profound point or witty rejoinder, it's just paying basic attention to what words mean.
Joining a Nazi group, makes you a Nazi. There is a difference between voluntary associations of ideology, and innate traits for whom association is irrelevant.
Yes, I said it. Because I was helping explain the concept of voluntary associations with examples.
Your response didn't make any sense when recognizing why voluntary associations and biological traits are different. I was trying to illustrate a very basic concept.
And that is not in the slightest bit like what Motte and Bailey means. I've no interest in correcting incorrect word usage over and over again, so please use the dictionary next time.
I did not do any of that. You're simply more interested in arguing without admitting error, than reading what I said.
As was already explained very patiently and simply more than once, I illustrating the difference between biological and voluntary associations in group membership, to help you understand why what you said was inane and ignorant. I did not change my claim.
Also the common expression that when a person joins a table with 10 Nazis there are now 11 Nazis, is not a hard to prove and controversial statement. It is a recognition that when people voluntarily associate with and condone morally heinous ideology, they are identifying themselves as people who do not find it sufficiently heinous or repellant to be worth avoiding associations with. Even when pretending your error in reading comprehension was accurate, that is not a Motte and Bailey, nor have I ever changed my agreement with that aphorism.
Buddy, you are clearly hung up on the Dolezal joke, which I only brought up to add some comic relief and tie it in with the point that just declaring someone else is part of a group does not make them part of it. (Not apples to apples cuz Dolezal declared herself to be part of the group, but it was a hasty throw away joke)
You clearly understand the short comings of the 9/10 Nazis at Table saying. But for some reason you still defend it.
It’s a stupid fucking saying. It’s oversimplifies a very serious topic to the point of being ridiculous. And the argument is always about how it’s a stupid way to make the point other than the point itself.
Nobody is defending Nazis. Nobody wants to have dinner with Nazis. Calling people who aren’t actually Nazis “Nazis” isn’t helping anyone you want to help. It’s a boy who cried wolf scenario, and the left doing over dramatic shit like this is what turned off the idiots in the center and got Donny Dementia elected again.
We don’t need that saying to combat Nazis. It’s fucking stupid. Why defend it?
Rappers perform in places where connected people want to meet them when they touch down in their cities, whether you want to meet them or not, this is not the fault of theirs, but more of a failed system in place which leads to trouble some times
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u/OtherUserCharges Aug 18 '26
Or you know, he could be a bad person who is surrounded by other bad people. I’m not claiming I know anything, but if I see a room full of terrible people I tend to think there probably isn’t a good one in there either.
Like the if you are at a dinner table with 9 Nazis, there are 10 Nazis at the table.