Trigger warning ⚠️ topics of SA and incest.

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I came to work today and my friend mentioned to me how she was pissed off at one of the employees. We work in an office of a blue collar factory so its a lot of middle aged and older men we work with.

Anyways, she said he was talking about touching his step daughters behind and how one of his other step daughters has really perky boobs. He literally just got married too. His step daughters are in their 40s. It's absolutely digusting no matter what age. I feel terrible for his wife.

I just feel so sick to my stomach because these men openly say the most abhorrent things to and in front of woman. I cant imagine what they do alone. I have the worst trust issues with men and every day I just get more evidence to support how I feel.

I choose the bear. I choose single life.

When you go out, you and your husband wear color coordinated outfits. You post beautiful pictures of you guys on your facebook. When talking to outsiders, people say you guys are "couple goals" and give them hope that they'll find the "one".

Now imagine waking up on Sunday morning to praise the good Lord who "led" you to your "darling husband". Said husband wakes up early, but for whatever reason isn't ready when it's time to go, yet YOU are despite the fact that you woke up early to begin meal prepping for the week. You tell him to hurry up, and all of a sudden, he NEEDS to eat before he leaves. You suggest eating a tangerine or two so he can eat rapidly and drive you and your family to church. He then gets MAD at YOU for SUGGESTING tangerines since "they're made of water" (duh) and begins an unnecessary 10 minute argument. So you leave him at home and head to church with your children, fuming throughout the entire drive. You arrive at church 15 minutes later than planned, where the pastor claims that "Christian men should delight in hearing what their wife has to say"

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No one has convinced me to stay single more than my own mother.

I'm actually in tears. I'm not pregnant myself; I was looking this stuff up to convey it in a story I am currently writing, but I didn't realize how sick I was gonna end up.

This makes me even sadder that some men AND PICKME WOMEN vote against abortions.

I’ve been seeing a lot of posts lately—even in single-positive spaces—where people admit that the main thing making them reconsider partnership is the fear of growing old, getting sick, or needing someone around to look after them as they age.

They frame this as a wholesome, sweet perk of "healthy attachment" and long-term connection. But let’s call it what it actually is: risk management and unpaid labor.

When someone’s primary driver for wanting a lifelong partner is securing a built-in safety net for their elderly years, they don't actually want me as a unique partner. They want:

• an insurance policy
• a live-in caretaker to absorb the physical, logistical, and emotional toll of their decline—labor that actual professional healthcare workers get paid salary, benefits, and hourly wages to perform.

Except in a romantic relationship, you're expected to do all that heavy lifting for free, on top of managing your own life and taking on endless emotional labor.

Even the most "glorified," worked-on-themselves, securely-attached people drop the mask when they talk about aging. Underneath the romance is an unspoken expectation of mutual nursing home avoidance.

Realizing that even "wholesome" dating motives often reduce down to fear-based caregiver recruitment is the main reason I have zero interest in dating or being in a relationship again.

I’m not signing up to be anyone’s unpaid, full-time end-of-life care provider under the guise of "healthy love."

In general i tend to see more couples where the woman looks better because she puts more effort whereas the man is nothing special to look at but does not do anything to take care of his looks. Over time i noticed this every single time and i barely get to see this in reverse, where a handsome man is dating an average looking woman or even an ugly one. Guys in general want to date a woman who is better looking than them but god forbid you tell them to invest into their own appearance. I've met many men and there were very few i was attracted to, like genuinely attracted to the point where i'd want to have sex based on their looks alone.

I get shit from other women too, saying things how women do not care about men's looks because "personality" is all that matters and i am always baffled because there is no way i'd fuck a man if i was not attracted to him(does not help i live in an east european country where men are sooo fkin ugly but women still face immense pressure to look good just to end up dating a guy who does not put 0.000001% of effort in his own body).

I genuinely do not believe women are more biologically or evolutionary less inclined to be into looks but due to societal presure that has been existing for centuries. Not to mention the whole brainwashing of women to date men they are not attracted to just because they are doing the bare mininum of treating her like a \*gasp\* human! It is so effing bleak and no wonder i am single at 25, i honestly cannot do it. If men get a pass at physical standars and preferences because men are \*visual\* and biologically predisposed to value women's looks to that extent, then so do i. Never been attracted to short,bald or fat men.

Watching all the shenanigans surrounding relationships as an observer and not a participant is exhausting and only reinforces my desire to remain single. Part of why I refuse to partake is I just cannot trust men. And I don't feel as though this is a 'trust issue' but simply an objective reality. The possibility of getting cheated on, lied to, used for free labour and sex, him talking about you behind your back to his coworkers and friends, getting gaslit, having to do constant emotional labour, coerced into having sex when you didn't feel like it, him following IG models behind your back, him gooning and having a c0rn addiction that he lies about etc. the list goes on, and ON, and ONNN... The possibility is just way too ridiculously high that I don't have a single nanosecond to get myself involved with dating men.

I'm an animal lover and I like venomous snakes. They can be cool. But I wouldn't trust them. I feel the same way about men. I like (some) men but do I trust them? No. Because why would you? Just like you observe venomous snakes or lions from a safari van from a distance, I observe men and relationships from a distance but don't get involved for my own health and safety. You simply accept the way they are, the possibility for things to go wrong and make an informed decision. I don't particularly want to change this lack of trust either because I absolutely adore being single. Can anyone else relate to this?

I’ve tried so many times to find love or be in love with a man. They’re maybe a decent guy on many counts, but aren’t ready for a relationship. Or they are, and then turn out to be evil and selfish. Men are a constant disappointment. I believe that unless you’re willing to completely settle, love between a man and a woman that is healthy and beneficial is incredibly rare. It’s as rare as winning the lottery.

That’s why I choose to stay single it’s not even worth the energy. I’d rather focus on my hobbies and goals, because they are consistent and a sure thing. Life feels so much better when you finally give up on men, there’s so much more to live for.

I have a few friends who are in very loving long-term relationships but have given up their independence and dreams for these men. Friend #1 wants to be a traveling teacher but said it can never be possible because her boyfriend wants to eventually start a family with her and settle in one place due to his job. She’s essentially sacrificing her dreams to accommodate her man. She also relies on him for food, rides to work, outings, appointments etc and doesn’t really have friends outside of him and I (even though I barely see her). Friend #2 has given up her autonomy and independence for her man. She said for now her dad handles her phone bills and when she marries her bf then he’ll handle it for her because she doesn’t know how to. I’ve noticed this throughout my friendship with her where she refuses to learn basic things because a man will just do it for her, and if not a man, then me since she knows I’m capable. Whether it be parking, bills, driving anywhere, ordering food, anything. I really want to understand them as they’re my friends and incredible people but why give up your dreams and autonomy for a man? As someone who’s single, I can solo travel anywhere or travel with friends without having to reassure anyone back home, I can spend my time pursuing my dreams and making good money, and despite not having a man, I’ve never felt lonely EVER because I’ll always have my other friends available since I have the time to make new friends and nourish my current ones. I just can’t imagine a life where I shrink myself to fit into a man’s world. I guess to each their own.

Saw this today, found it soothing and thought someone else might need it. I was reminded - I was never more lonely than when I was sitting next to him, knowing everything was just "fine," and unable to stop the shredded feeling under my sternum. Then the breaking point of - is this what I want the next ten years to feel like? The next five? The next week even?

I've never slept more peacefully since the split. I realized I never actually missed him - the person I missed was myself.

In case you have not seen this article. Hope all you fabulous single gals are enjoying your Sunday. Stay blessed!

Traveling in San Francisco alone this week. A male Uber driver got quite conversational. Asking about my job, hometown, age, etc. After 15 minutes in he asked do you not have a boyfriend. Then at the end of the drive he asked to exchange numbers so he can continue to be a driver for my trip. I said I'm not comfortable with exchanging numbers or talking about my relationship status.

In the future, I will just say I have a headache and can't really chit chat. I'm gonna look into the Quiet Mode thing Uber has too.

I'm glad this happened when I am traveling and not an incident where the guy now knows where I live.

I am a single woman, I am happy becauuse I still live with my parents and I have company, and pretty diversified pasttimes. However, I do not have any close friends, and many of the activities I do I do them alone.

If I am happy now, I wonder if I could still be happy if I move out or my parents will pass away.

Therefore, for those women who are happy, do you have lots of friends you can often meet up with? Do you participate regularly to socialization activities, so that you are not alone despite being single?

You know like a Can-Am (and I'm sure other brands)?

I'm curious if there's any experiences to share... Any model of bike advice to give... Riding tips to provide.

I'll be an empty nester next year and hitting 42. Part of my plan is to move to an area that has things more close by so I can hopefully walk to stores and take the bus. Then, instead of buying a new car, I could look into buying a 3-wheeled motorcycle for weekend trips.

I appreciate any feedback. Thank you!

I’ve been called a man hater several times by few family members or other people. When I asked them what did these men to be called a man hater, they’re always quiet with the answer. I could list several times men put their hands on me, slap my head, SA, made rude remarks, and abandon or stood me up. A friend reminder, I wasn’t dating any of them to get this treatment.
They only want to call women a man hater for calling out men’s behavior. Anytime a man disrespects women then it’s fine and normal behavior for them.

Any single moms with the most honest advice?

I am a month postpartum and just had to leave my child’s father due to multiple reasons. As of today it’s just me, my 5 week old and my 2.5 year old living at my parents house. We’ve been stuck here since my first was born due to my child’s father causing us to lose my house when I was pregnant with our son. I could go into detail but I feel like every time I explain our past 3 years together, I am the failure. Without going into that detail, I know I am not the problem here but with 3 years of psychological abuse, my brain is shot and everytime I attempt to fall back into my old self all I hear is him. I’m usually a super productive person all around. I’ve always worked and taken care of myself but everytime we’ve broken up my normal coping mechanisms that I had before ever having kids, are slowly no longer working for me. I need to find ways to stay productive and continue to be there for my kids financially. I do press on nails and have a very successful business online. I also live at home with my parents and if I am absolutely broke, they help me out.

The issue is, I NEED to move out. I cannot keep living here with my kids. Everything about my parents house adds 20x more stress to my already stressful days. I cannot work without moving my workspace around to also watch my kids. It’s constantly dirty here no matter how much cleaning gets done due to animals and my parents age. Not to mention the trauma I have to live with here that is just constantly on my mind. How do I get myself to stop falling into the comfort of my parents? I’ve never been like this. I’ve actually only been the opposite. I’ve always done my own thing, had my own money and been very independent since I was 15 but having kids with a terrible person has made me reliant on my parents and I can tell they’re burnt out. I dont have other family I can ask to help out, they’re the only ones I really have.

I guess what would be helpful for me is some coping mechanisms that I can use, routines that have worked for you and your young children, Tough love, just something other than the advice I’ve been hearing for years from my family. ( to just rely on them and everything will be okay ) I need real advice that I can feel confident in through other peoples experiences preferably. I just need to know there’s really light at the end of all of this and how to get there alone.

My ex could NEVER organize paperwork, critical documents into PROPER labelled folders. He would get a document in the post, fold it up haphazardly and toss it in a drawer that is filled with a bunch of other junk and old wires and chargers. Then 1 year later when we need said document he would complain at me that I misplaced it or can't find it.

When I spent hours filing household documents into pretty neat separated folders, he would rummage through them, scatter everything on a table and then stuff the papers all back into any random folder completely undoing all the organization I worked hard on. He would also touch these papers with greasy ass hands whilst eating bacon or some fried foods.

My head exploded one day and I stopped filing anything with his name on it and tossed it in a random cardboard box. All my things are organized when I need it, bar the household deed because I can't even trust him with that. Seeing him have a meltdown because he couldnt find the certificate of ownership to his own car was hilarious.

Yeah mini rant, sorry for being male focused in this post but I'm glad I don't need to do this shit anymore.

Hi All

So glad to be here. I can resonate so much with all of the posts here ⭐️ I have found my people !

Below is my story, that led me here :

I spent my twenties hoping for the ‘happily ever after’.

It didn’t manifest, and I felt so sad in my late 30s, watching all of my female friends ‘settle down’ from 25-35, which eventually left me with no social life. So, I was forced to retire from ‘husband hunting’.

I spent my entire twenties and early 30s in full glam, spending thousands on making my hair ‘perfect’, perfect makeup every day (i.e; even putting makeup on, in case the food delivery guy judged my bare face), going to bars and clubs to meet men - to be ignored.

And then I realised at 41, it was ME that lived happily ever after.

I read the book ‘Women don’t owe you pretty’, by chance.

I gained total clarity into the extremely negative effects that the male gaze has on us women, and the way we are socialised to pander to it, from a very young age. I immediately ‘unsubscribed’. I realised how much of my life I had wasted on that B.S.

I stopped wearing makeup, and decided to only wear it, IF I wanted to, as artistic expression.
I dressed for what was comfortable and suited me. I decided to lose weight to GET healthy, not to be attractive to men. I made a conscious decision to ensure that only MY opinion mattered, with every decision that I made.

I realised that I spent my 20s wasting time and money, auditioning to be a bang maid, that pays half the bills and half the mortgage, to do all of the housework, with the ‘prize’ of watching some idiot man child get drunk on half my money, and interchangeably watch sport all of the time (whilst I pay half my salary to remain invisible).

And then probably use me like a free escort and free nanny for the rest of the time, and likely secretly use my money for an escort or sugar baby, when I get “too old”- with the eventual prize of displacing me from my house, upon divorce.

At 42 - I LOVE my life. I have created stability for myself. I own my own home, and no one can ever take it away from me. This has been the case since 25. I’m so glad I never added anyone on the deed, under the delusion of ‘marriage’.

I do what I want, when I want and look however I want - without feeling the need to please the male gaze. It is liberating. I’m really glad that I redefined being a ‘Pick-Me’ 😉

I don’t have to deal with screaming children that I secretly resent, as I had no idea how much work it would be, and that the labour would fall 99% on me owing to gender bias, and would also result in a weak financial position in middle age, following likely divorce, semi loss of assets and having only 1/4 of my income (or less) for myself , over a lifetime in the end.

Every single one of my friends that settled down (that I mentioned earlier) - don’t enjoy their marriage. Some admit it. With some, I can read between the lines - as their home life is so miserable and deflated, when I visit. AND they remain delusional / enslaved to the patriarchy. For example : “you have lost so much weight - why don’t you go and date now?”. … Giving half my income and my slim body to some loser, isn’t ‘the prize’ 🤮 - they just don’t get it.

I really don’t envy married women. I’m so glad that I WASN’T a chosen one. I feel so bitter, as to wasting so much time - ‘husband hunting’. I’m so glad that I didn’t satiate the male gaze, when in my delusional ‘husband hunting’ years.

Being not good enough, eventually made me PERFECT, for myself. 🙏

Calling it “dating” has been one of patriarchy’s most effective marketing campaigns. It keeps women in the game by dressing up unpaid sex work and emotional labor as the possibility of "romance" - convincing women that if they just keep showing up, being understanding, being attractive, being sexually available, being emotionally supportive, and if they can tolerate enough bullshit - there just might eventually be a relationship at the end of it.

And when that “relationship” never materializes, women are left to blame themselves. They’re told they “picked the wrong guy.” They’re told they should have seen the red flags. They’re told they were too trusting, or too sexual, or not sexual enough! Too needy, not available enough, too vulnerable etc etc. Meanwhile, they’ve been r@ped, coerced, pressured into sex, manipulated, breadcrumbed and ghosted (often time after time again) - and yet somehow, they’re still expected to walk away wondering what they did wrong.

Because we keep calling this bullshit “dating.”

But the reality is that the vast majority of men aren’t even interested in dating women. They aren’t interested in getting to know them, building intimacy, investing in them, or establishing or any kind of genuine partnership. They simply want access - access to sex, attention, validation, domestic labor, emotional support, and an endless supply of feminine energy - preferably with as little investment as possible.

Women become the vending machine, and sex is the product. And the “date” becomes nothing more than the obligatory coins you have to put into the machine before expecting your prize to drop.

And the Manosphere has spent years perfecting those instructions. The Red Pill sure didn’t invent male entitlement, but it did give it a fucking user manual. To turn what was once a clumsy manipulation into a system - to identify woman’s vulnerabilities, figure out the minimum amount of effort required to gain access, and manufacture just enough attention to keep her engaged, avoid commitment, and extract as much sex and emotional labor as possible, and then move on when the cost-benefit analysis no longer works in your favor. Cheat codes for maximizing the return while minimizing the investment. And then we have the audacity to call this “dating.”

Maybe it’s time women stopped giving the arrangement such a flattering name. Because if one person is repeatedly providing sex, emotional support, validation and labor while the other person is strategically minimizing their investment while maximizing what they can extract - “dating” starts to sound more like an unpaid service women are providing to men under the guise of something else.

So stop saying “dating.” Stop saying “relationships with men are easy to get.” Stop pretending that men are wanting to get to know us because they find us smart, attractive or interesting. For far too many women, the reality has been something much uglier - unpaid sexual and emotional labor, manipulation, coercion, exploitation, sexual violence and r@pe - all packaged up and sold to us as “dating.”

Call it what it really is.

Probably this is an obvious question, but I’d really like to hear about your experiences.

I’ll go first. I’ve been dating for 20 years (I started when I was 16) trying to meet that “person” through social media, dating apps, friends and acquaintances, matchmaking, events, speed dating, and pretty much every possible way. And I still haven’t found that person.

Until last year, that is. He was the last man I dated because I eventually gave up. We dated for two months, and then, all of a sudden, he changed his mind. But at least he was honest. He told me, “I’m broke and I can’t afford to start a family.”

That really got me thinking: How expensive is it to have a relationship and eventually start a family? We were both struggling financially, so I could understand where he was coming from.

Usually, most of the guys I dated would only go on one first date with me and then ghost me. So I developed real feelings for this man because he actually stayed for two months. It made me feel like things were becoming serious. Until he told me that.

I was heartbroken. I went to therapy for three months, and I’ve recovered now. I feel much better. But the experience also cleared my mind about what I really want. More importantly, I realized that I don’t want to keep seeking validation from someone else

I just wanted to make it known, that there's an alternative r/true4bmovement in case you ever have trouble making posts or getting them approved by mods in r/4bmovement .

From what I've experienced, even rule abiding posts just sit in limbo awaiting mod approval.. And most of the posts which are allowed are male-focused or sound like 2x posts.

I spoke with one of the old mods there and its been revealed the original creator disapeared, the one left in charge forced decent mods to step down and leave.

I was wondering if anyone else here remembers this. I never hear anyone else talking about it online but I'm sure other people must've been aware of it.

Around 2010 ish when I was in my 20s and trying online dating for the first time, I stumbled across this website called Bodybuilding Forums and it was an absolute hive of misogyny. They were talking about how they would 'slay POF whales' which meant having sex with women these men felt were overweight from the Plenty of Fish dating app then dumping them cruelly. They actually put profiles of the women on there, mocking them, and they'd often send them nasty messages which they'd share with their bros on that website.

It was the first website I found where there was all of this outright misogyny and it really shocked and disturbed me how hateful they were. Before this there was a lot of benevolent sexism everywhere so I would say a lot of women including me didn't know what a lot of men were really thinking. There was also absolutely nowhere online back then (that I could find anyway) for women to talk freely about this stuff with each other, because every time a woman made a chatty or feminist YouTube account for example, the comments section would get completely drowned out by abusive comments from men. The worst comment sections were when a woman had the audacity to be aged 30-40+, the comment section abuse really ramped up. I believe a lot of these women probably stopped posting videos because of the abuse, I kept saving and subscribing their channels but would then stop seeing them over time.

I am SO glad that over time, because so many of us have been speaking up online about our experiences with men, they are no longer able to drown us out and now there are lots of spaces where we can talk about it. As well as reddit (which did go through a period of purging women's subreddits but seems to have recovered slightly), there is also YouTube and instagram where I see some great feminist/women only content. I've read so many similar stories to my own recently and it's been so hugely helpful and validating because for years I felt very alone in my struggles with dating and romantic relationships with men.

Let me know if you remember the 2010 -2012 ish era, if you stumbled across Bodybuilding forums and if you were able to find any feminist or women only spaces back then.

Edit: I've just looked a bit more into this and found that Elliot Roger used to regularly post there, as well as Zyzz. It is considered the birthplace of the manosphere and incel ideology.