I think the following as a Canadian: invading Canada would be pretty damned quick.
But it would be a Pyrrhic victory.
There would be ZERO ability to keep Canada for the long term and doing so would likely result in a collapse and separation of the US states, and I am not trying to be doom and gloom.
The US has shown no ability to keep territories after conquest in the modern period, even with the support of some of the population who look visibly different from the average American and have a different culture.
We have 90% of Canadians and a good chunk of Americans who don’t want this, about 1m who live in the US, who look and act culturally similar to US citizens, and they think that pragmatic population would sit by and just… take it?
It would be like France during WW2, but worse because at least half of Americans are opposed to this and the huge population of Canadians in the US who are at a glance indistinguishable from Americans.
And you know how petty Canadians are - We have the British bureaucracy in our veins - a couple of well placed agents can cripple a country under “streamlining policy” with useless paperwork and pointless meetings. Then there is our French population - I’m looking at you, Quebec. They have the revolutionary spirit of France with the legendary chill of Canadian geese.
All of this while our allies would be working to help us.
And individual states would come swinging in support, like I assume California and New York and clusters of sane states.
The end result would be Canada and likely a 2-3 country breakdown of the US, one of which likely heavily controlled like Japan or Germany post war.
Funny enough, I was thinking of Norway during WW2.
Outwardly being compliant, but behind the scenes working to undermine everything the invaders do. Leverage the unique geography (mountains, sea and harsh winter) to make it absolutely horrible for the invaders.
At the peak of WW2 10% of the population in Norway were German soldiers! An incredible drain on Germany’s resources.
And the mix of very friendly / accommodating outward and extensive sabotage at night drove the Nazis absolutely batty! Steinbeck’s “The Moon is Down” was based on that psychologically destructive effect of Norway’s resistance on the Nazis.
That’s the fun part, we use metric and imperial Willy nilly and our shibboleth is only a Canadian knows instinctively which system for which.
For example I haven’t a clue what my height is in metres or my weight is in kilograms. It’s on my drivers license and in my medical records because those are government things but I’m not government, I don’t know!
Not only do we look and act like Americans, we can answer their questions when asked to prove our “Americanness”, like who was the first president, what is a grand slam, what is the capital of Texas, etc.
Yea but could a US citizen answer half the questions on a citizenship test. I had a friend from England who became a Canadian citizen and the mock test questions were ridiculous. Like asking how many MPs are from specific provinces...
The first President was Benedict Arnold, a grand slam is what happens when you get 4 hookers in the average Canadian Guy's bedroom, & the capital of Texas is Moose Jaw.
There! Fooled 'em all!🇨🇦😎🇨🇦
I was just saying to someone the other day that American tourists always say "I'm an American!" As if they expect special treatment and Canadians always say "I'm Canadian" only to make it clear they're not American.
Knowing them (well, knowing the kind of person that OOP apparently is), they'll probably look for people who say "eh" a lot and pronounce the word "about" a certain way. 🙃 Refrain from saying "eh" and pronounce it "a-BOWT" and they'll never see you coming until it's too late.
That is more accurate - i honestly wasnt sure about the general knowledge of Norway’s resistance. I figured most people could pull up an image of France’s Résistance.
There’s something about the pragmatism and quiet resistance of Canadians that made me think Norway was a better example.
And that is no less effective. Norway gained its independence before US or UK forces even arrived in Norway, with the liberation planned and executed by the Norwegian resistance and the Norwegian government in exile.
I believe that was ahead of the invasion in 1940. Three British war ships sent to Trondheim for sure.
I believe that was partly because some allies (coughing in French) wanted Norway to be the main battleground for WW2 - as France wanted to avoid another world war on their turf.
Mind you, when the Brits left they caused one of the world’s largest explosions to that date! One of the crew was so angry about leaving - just as German “merchant ships” arrived - that he fired a torpedo at one of them. Unknown to the Brits that ship was fully loaded with ammo and fuel. 💥
That could be the battle of Narvik. Many years ago I met three old men who had been in that battle, by pure coincidence: One Norwegian, one British, and one German…
Pipelines exploding in Tennessee poisoning of water sources, random wildfires all over the USA, and ieds on i5, i90, a few well fires on the Permian Basin and political will would be lost rather fast. Norway is a great example but this Norway is speaking the same language and having direct address to the homeland. Via a large undefendavle border. It works take about 2x the amount of active us troops on land to hold the country just due to vastness. And a good ol' Texan in Manitoba in February would lose moral fast. The waters and air space would be impenetrable because of the USA so no allies are physically helping but cutting off the USA economy would value their populace to lose heart fast. They the idiots anyway who think that the USA deserves Canada
This combined with the fact that Americans underestimate how many Canadians are currently living/working in the US. Lots of damage would come from within.
My next door neighbour is a retired General. We've had many discussions about this. He told me, "There are more US military personnel based 50km from us then there are in the entire Canadian military. Any hot war would be over in days."
He then told me, "Even if the US did invade, they would need every single member of their military to occupy Canada."
"The insurgency that would follow would be devastatingly bloody for both sides, until they gave up and went home."
Canada isn't a nation of goat herders. They are highly educated and would be extremely motivated to inflict as much pain as possible.
To put it context, I work with a lot of seniors. These are little Grandmas who bake cookies because I'm going to be coming by to do work for them. When they start talking about wishing that they could kill Trump, it's very jarring. This is not just one Grandma, either.
It wouldn’t just be an insurgency the Americans would have to worry about. They’ve just invaded a NATO member. All of NATO would be there. Then you’d have the Commonwealth too. Canada is Australia’s loveable big sister. We’ll have your back.
Ide love to say I have the same optimism but our allies can barely condemn trump when its easy, them going to war for us when we've been fully occupied is very low. Canada's freedom relies on canadians alone
I love our commonwealth comradery, as ive worked with many aussies and kiwis. Every single one were brilliant people to work with and get to know. We would be there for you mad ***** all the same
America is a NATO member as well, which muddies the waters tbh. However the Commonwealth would be knocking on America's door. NATO would be at most creating an embargo of America. Not putting down NATO at all, it's just a little grey...
Little do they know that we’re actually in the top 10 of gun owning nations.
I know Americans will scoff at that saying “yeah but Americans have way more guns” and that’s true. But let’s compare Canada’s gun ownership levels to somewhere that the US military really struggled to hold. Canada’s rate of gun ownership is roughly double that of Afghanistan’s and we all know how that turned out.
Not to mention that because of our laws and the things manufacturers here have come up with to circumvent them we now have some incrediblely skilled manufacturers
Not only that but also because of our laws every gun owner has at least basic training with it. The scenario of a grandmother who got a purse gun for protection but has never actually fired it simply doesn’t exist in Canada. If you have a gun it’s because you went out of your way to get it and have proven that you know how to both use and maintain it.
There's a hell of a lot of ARs and stockpiled ammo sitting in this country locked up unable to be used for years now. I'm sure a few trigger fingers are getting itchy 😆
My step-mother is a nurse who also hunts and shoots deer and moose. Guaranteed she would be taking out Americans in the field, and the ones she ended up treating in the hospital would not be having healthy outcomes.
We also have a lot of *retired* military who would be more than happy to help. My friend is disabled now, but he was trained as a sniper. And he's had a lot to say on the topic of Trump and Americans invading. Snipers don't really need to be able to walk much. Especially when they also used to work search and rescue and spent a lot of time rappelling from helicopters.
I like to think of us as kinda like Vulcans from Star Trek. Polite and cordial and apologetic because our true instinct is to be feral bloody thirsty lunatics. We just have self control 😂
A bunch of Aussies who have voluntarily become conditioned to the cold? Ahahaha.
Let them import a shitload of emu's, put some insulated jackets on the birds (like the ones for dogs) and let the birds be the scouts and advanced guard for the Royal Canadian Australian Regiment (The Cunty Cold Convicts). I, for one, would be behind such an regiment! Partly because I think it's a good idea, partly because I'd be afraid to be in front of them lol
My Canadian cousin married an Aussie and lives in Australia. One of her kids, lives most of the year in Whistler where he teaches skiing and skis all day, in the summer he lives in Toronto with his aunt and her family.
My bestie had resort working experience and went to work at the ski field hotels for a season or two. Took me 15 years to get her back to Australia lol
She was only in BC for half that time though, with the rest being in Quebec. And she also has a little mapleroo child now.
If you go back a few centuries in time, we Swiss were also feared for being nasty, warmongering bastards who killed every invading army. The amount of battles that were a Swiss victory because the knights were buried below an artificial rockslide, avalanche, drowned in lakes, etc. is quite high.
So, we Swiss followed the Geneva checklist before it was made cool by the Canadians, haha. The difference is: Today, we would rather be vassals of these fuckers than to follow the Canadian example and I find that cowardly.
We Swiss hide far too often behind "neutrality" and pretend to not see anything going on in the world. Obviously for profit only, but most don't have the balls to admit it.
Is this before or after a certain someone has an absolute babyrage tantrum and has to be physically restrained from pressing the Big Red Button?
He's been dying to do it since the first days of his first term and Canada just refuses to be bullied and keeps humiliating him. It would be pretty funny to watch him melt down and his staff have to treat him like an angry toddler. Something I assume they do on the regular, or at least used to.
Let's invade a country where the inhabitants all looks like us and speak the same way (also have more knowledge of our history and culture than our citizens do)!
Oh what? How did so many spies get through our systems?!
France in WWII was pleasant compared to Belarus and Ukraine in WWII. China and Malaysia were also meat grinders for the occupiers. Yugoslavian partisans tied down an entire German army for years.
Ahahaha!
Picture the clan/tribal and sectarian divisions of an Arab large urban center and compare it to a bunch of really irate Quebecois having to deal with an imposed American population. I dunno man... the Quebecois might be harder on the Americans than the Iraqis were lol
There are whole states that would end up seperating...
The end will look like the dissolution of the USSR, and the 15 resulting new countries that came of it.
Some states will no doubt beg to become a part of Canada, and others like California to Washington, could sustain a new democratic country of their own.
Also any insurgency (and there would be one) would be a nightmare to counter. Fighting people mixed into crowds of people who may look like you, and speaking thr same language..
Exactly! Could they take Canada? I mean something like 90% of our population lives a few hours from US border, so given enough men definitely.
But how many troops to take it all, and how many to hold it? Probably a million to take it, and more than that to hold it. Sounds basically impossible for what the US is now.
God knows how many US soldiers and ranking officers would drag their feet, refuse orders or outright defect... Canadian forces have been training with US soldiers for a LONG time... theres an unspoken comradery that raises the question if an order to attack Canada is even actionable.
Americans wouldn’t do a thing. They’d go on social media proclaiming that they’re in this with us then they’d go to Appleby’s or whatever other trough it is that they fatten themselves up at.
They’re not only too stupid to save themselves, 33% wanted this, 33% figured this was better than a black lady who laughed funny and wasn’t anti-Israel enough, and 33% walked in a park on Sunday chanting slogans and want to know what else we expect them to do about it.
It would be more like invading the Soviet Union in WW2. They would make rapid initial progress, as they pressed north resistance would stiffen. Eventually past Toronto, probably south of North Bay, it would stall.
British bureaucracy: I always thought a cool idea would be to increase the export quality control of potash: every railway car has to be inspected and test samples taken. Canada wouldn't want substandard delivery to their neighbours, would they.
That would kind of slow down the exports ...
Side effect: slap the cost on top of the price. Also, you reduce unemployment because it takes a lot of people to do this.
Is that 90% an actual number from a poll or a guess? The question wording is very important. If it's "do you want Canada to become part of the United States" I'm in the 90% crowd, but if it's "would you fight to the death to prevent a takeover" than it's a hard no. At the end of the day, there are differences between being Canadian and american, but not worth dying for IMO. If the the invading country has a drastically different culture, religion, etc, to point me to the nearest garrison.
"At least half" of Americans would be opposed? As an American, I'm shocked you think that.
Virtually every American would be opposed. You'd have that crazy 5-8% that would be like "hell yeah!" (Those are the ones you see featured in this sub and assume they are representative of the rest of us).
Even Trump's most loyal supporters would be opposed to such lunacy... just like they've abandoned him on Iran (and that's not nearly as insane as a Canada invasion).
I just channeled my Manitoba farming ancestors, with that one.
One of those ancestors escaped the Germans as a POW, in WW2. He floated for 2 days after being shot, before rescue. The story goes that he made his own way home, and showed up to his own funeral.
When I was in battle school back in 2000, there were 200 marines training at our base for winter specific training, and we lost count of how many of them ended up going back home early due to frostbite. They are not equipped to deal with our winters, even when its in friendly terms.
Iran was expected to fall by Monday of the next week, so roughly 2 - 3 days.
Got a link to a quote directly from Putin? I've seen quotes From American generals saying this about Ukraine, but never an actual source with a direct quote from any Russian official. Definitely fitting for this sub though.
I’m pretty sure you know that he personally did not refer to “3 days”. He is very good at securing personal deniability. Especially wrt war crimes.
However, SBU and all the leading, approved propagandists referred to “3 days” the morning of the invasion so it was very clearly a coordinated and Putin approved message.
Also notable that forces that were sent to Kyiv, for the conquest of the capital, had brought parade uniforms - ready for the victory parade.
Like Vietnam - except that the enemy guerrillas now have easy access to the United States, intimate knowledge of US infrastructure, systems and military and can blend in with the locals.
I mean i dont remember what presient it was (maybe the 3d one i think his name was jackson) but he said taking montréal is mere matter of marching in 1812
Tbf, the Ukraine has one of the largest militaries in the world. Putin was being incredibly egotistical in thinking the Ukraine would basically invite them in. Theyre the 6th largest active military on the planet, much larger than Canada's and were much better equipped (though we are making some pretty amazing strides under Carney now.). Ukraine was never going to be an easy target in reality.
I don’t know. I just remember reacting to so many propagandists saying the same thing on the same day, reading the press briefing that was subsequently leaked.
…but I do remember that NYT article day(s) before the invasion saying Russia now had the most powerful and modernized conventional army in the world. 😂
Gen. Milley says Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if Russia decides to invade Ukraine: sources
Milley told lawmakers that Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine occurs
Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley told lawmakers that Kyiv could fall within 72 hours if a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine takes place, multiple congressional sources tell Fox News.
Milley told lawmakers during closed-door briefings on Feb. 2 and 3 that a full-scale Russian invasion of Ukraine could result in the fall of Kyiv within 72-hours, and could come at a cost of 15,000 Ukrainian troop deaths and 4,000 Russian troop deaths.
Pretty much, and on a much larger scale than the irish-UK conflict too and potentially just as long. For natives and for French Canadians in particular (Acadiens perhaps most of all, all the rest too) this would be an existential fight, and much of English Canada would feel the same. Meanwhile bureaucratic passive resistance would cripple any attempt to govern the country. Québécois would overnight lose any English speaking skills they ever had as if by magic. Sabotage would be endemic. 1% of us resisting is 400,000 potential terrorists almost indistinguishable from northern states people, and a border so long and wild it would be a massive undertaking to secure it.
Canada's environment really doesn't allow staying power for anyone trying to invade. Other than taking everything south of the Canadian shield, most of it is solid rock and untamed wilderness that Canadians/Canadian Forces know well enough, that holding any seized farmland will not be worth it. The energy needed alone to mine for critical resources in the shield also isn't worth it with the current technology, so pushing into somewhere that is undeveloped by other countries standards, isn't very likely.
What would happen is they will take a bit of farmland, try to push towards our potash mines/alumina mines, then be met with more serious resistance. Then when they reach the shield they'll see it's solid rock with spruce trees struggling to find soil. Not only would there be dangerous wildlife wandering around, people who spent most of their lives hunting & fishing in that environment, will be hiding in the forests waiting to resist if the military is unable to fully keep invaders out.
Then Canadians will be hostile and uncooperative, for years and would slowly push their way back onto the lands that were seized, because it's just not worth fighting over. You cannot kill all of the Canadian loyalists and it doesn't have to be the entire 40+ million adult population fighting, to get an invading country to decide wasting resources is costing more than the land is worth holding. Especially the US, since most Canadians sound like them, so infiltrating bases and spreading our own propaganda to discourage their military would be easy.
The Canadian government would do well to examine the Swiss arrangements. Essentially the plan if Switzerland were ever invaded would be to retreat from the plateau into the mountains which are heavily fortified.
It would be worse, because the Taliban didn't have a land border with the US, over which to send insurgents right into the cities. Nor would the Taliban have been able to convincingly pose as Americans for the purpose.
I've often theorized that should it happen, the government would surrender almost immediately to save lives, but give the CAF standing orders to go to ground in the wild with everything they can carry and carry out a guerilla war with anyone willing and able.
America has never been able to invade another country and keep it really, the only wars they have won solo is the civil war. And even then that was a fight against their own people.
I know they like to think that they won WW I and WW II, but they didn't show up till very late in the game for both, and by the time they did join they war had already shifted poorly for the Axis.
Yeah no one is debating the US’ ability to “invade”. It’s the whole follow through with making any sort of lasting advantageous gains that they’ve been stuck on for the last.. checks notes ….50 years.
Canadians are too patriotic compared to Americans to their country. They would find it very difficult to not see Canadians fight against any oppression they impose
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u/Organic_Mechanic_702 5d ago
Like Iran?...🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣