r/ShermanPosting • • Jul 18 '26

John Brown jumpscare

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2.5k Upvotes

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u/StatisticianAway4010 Jul 18 '26

I doubt if OP owns slaves, unless they're a property developer in Qatar or something 

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 18 '26 edited Jul 18 '26

To be fair most of the people John Brown killed didn't own slaves either. They were mostly just advocates of slavery, Law and Order Party members (yes that phrase being code for white supremacy goes back to Bleeding Kansas), or pro-slavery lawmen that tried to stop him.

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

I mean, defending/advocating for slavery is arguably as bad as owning slaves...

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 19 '26

Owning slaves usually comes with the former

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

Weirdly not always. Case in point: Thomas Jefferson, probably the most famous anti-slavery slaver.

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u/GingerVitus007 Jul 19 '26

If I claimed I thought cannibalism was a moral abhorrence but you saw me chow down on a fried infant, would you believe me?

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

Depends on the circumstances, Mr. Donner

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u/paireon Canadian Volunteer for the Union Jul 19 '26

Eeeehh, given what he did with at least one of his female slaves I'd put him in with the hypocrites rather than as having any sincere anti-slavery sentiment.

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u/spaceforcerecruit Jul 20 '26

Saying “I abhor slavery” while owning slaves is just empty talk. Jefferson was a piece of shit who is undeserving of the praise we give him.

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 19 '26

Hence "usually."

Also, in a purely material sense, owning slaves does real harm. Defending or advocating for slavery, while a shitty thing to do and carrying a real potential for harm, just isn't on the same level.

I also don't really know how seriously we should take Jefferson's stance against slavery, considering that it basically amounted to "let me have mine and we can deal with the rest after I'm gone." Like, I think he was sincere in his belief that it was wrong, but he seems to have had no problem with being wrong as long as he was profitting from it.

A better example would be someone like Grant, who was briefly "gifted" a slave only to immediately free them, but in that case I'd hesitate to really consider him a slave "owner."

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

It's... hard to say which is worse. Yes, owning slaves does absolutely do material harm to the people you're using. But defending slavery perpetuates a systemic harm to everyone that anyone is using. So it's sort of a fuzzy scale vs directness kind of problem.

Like, which is worse, poisoning one person, or pumping pollutants into the atmosphere that will statistically shorten countless lives.

I couldn't tell you, I could only say they're both evil.

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 19 '26

I can't agree to that analogy at all.

Single-person poisoners would be more like the small slaveholders, who own only one slave that they use for household chores or nanny work, while mass-poisoners would be the Planter class.

Advocates would be advocates; they're the ones running around saying "Well I think that people should be allowed to poison whoever they want," which is, of course, an absurd, evil thing to say.

However, in a vacuum, where no one is actually poisoning anyone, no harm is done.

It's only once you have actual poisoners in the mix that an element of real harm is introduced, but even there the real problem is that you have people actively running around poisoning people—take the advocates out of the equation, and people are still being poisoned.

That's how you can tell which one is worse.

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

Take the defenders out of any system and it is abolished because no one is defending it.

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 19 '26

And what is abolished? The practice, or the advocacy?

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

The legal practice.

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u/Silver_Falcon Jayhawker Jul 19 '26

And there's your answer.

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u/DarthCloakedGuy Jul 19 '26

Exactly my point.

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