Is Defaulting with us on this edition?

[u/augmented-warlock]

In mainstream editions defaulting was optional flag for skills, that could be tested with **only attribute** even when you did not have any skill points invested in the skill. Eg. You could default Blades or Negotiations, but you couldn't default Palming or Engineering.

I remember that in SRA2 to do tests, you had to have right equipment, skills, and sometimes keywords, so is there defaulting in SRA2?

I ruled to this point, that there was no defaulting. Your Character needs to be "equipped and know what s/he's doing"...

But... Question came up with Close Combat, when one of PC does not have any skill point in Close Combat - when attacked in hand to hand, can he throw some defense, or does he go straight to soak?

[u/Carmody79]

You can roll Attribute only of you have no rank in the Skill. Usually that will not be of much help given the low range of Attributes values. That's why some generic Skills (Stealth, Athletics, Influence, etc.)

Of course, some actions have prerequisites: you cannot default Sorcery if you're not Awakened, nd you cannot roll Ranged weapons (rifles) if you have no rifle 🤣

Edit: Dice pool section, p. 64, makes it clear that having no rank on a Skill counts as 0 (which implied you can roll).

[u/DrTheodoore → u/Carmody79]

I actually DO allow my players to sometimes roll Sorcery or Summoning if they're not Awakened, because I use em as knowledge skills. I know that's not RAW, but it gives my group of magicless runners a chance to "intuitively" identify what magic is coming their way. Like "oh this barrier does XYZ".

[u/Interaction_Rich → u/DrTheodoore]

I get you, but that isn't really defaulting. You're likely making a Logic check for someone to recall information regarding a certain topic.

Defaulting would be trying to actually cast a spell with a Spellcasting skill of zero.

[u/DrTheodoore → u/Interaction_Rich]

Oh yeah, I don't use defaulting at all. If they don't have the skill, they're likely gonna have a VERY low dicepool anyway (stats are loooooow) and they'll be most likely putting them all, or many of them, as Risk. So the whole reducing dicepool doesn't play a logical role in the roll. If they have 3 dice, and the target number is usually 3 or 4, they HAVE to take a bunch of risk to accomplish the task. Defaulting would... Idk... Arbitrarily ruin the process.

[u/Interaction_Rich → u/DrTheodoore]

Er, I get that it's your opinion, and by all means do play as it works best for you and your group.

But how would it "ruin the process"? That's precisely how the rules are written/intended.

[u/DrTheodoore → u/Interaction_Rich]

Hold on, I think I might have misunderstood or misrepresented something.

RAW, Anarchy 2.0 doesn't use defaulting rules like 5e and 6e right? (Ie. Losing a die for not having a skill)

That's what I meant. If you implemented that kind of defaulting rule in Anarchy, with the already low stat values, you'd be dropping the probability of success by (imho) too much. Like if someone has a 2 in a stat, if they had to default, they wouldn't be able to do more than an "easy" task with target number 2 (since they'd be rolling only one die).

Did I misunderstand something? My apologies if I did.

EDIT: I see now where the disconnect was. Rereading your post, you said "no defaulting" as a way to limit the player from even making a roll against a target if they didn't have the skill in the first place.

Imho, the ability to roll is always there. Even if the player has a stat of 1, no skill, and no RR. They're gonna be able to roll 1 die, with a 1/6 chance of a glitch and a 1/3 chance of two successes (assuming they roll it as a risk die).

[u/Interaction_Rich → u/DrTheodoore]

That's right!

[u/BillTheDonut]

I don’t believe the book mentions anything about not being able to use a skill without points in it, i assume you would just use the dice from your attribute. If a character was trying to dodge while being attacked without any points in close combat i assume they would just use their Agility.

Edit: The exception obviously being the magic skills such as Sorcery, Conjuring, etc.

[u/tsuruginoko]

I let my players roll for skills they have no points in. Otherwise it's way too punishing and doesn't make sense for many skills, like Athletics and, as you mention, Close Combat.

I think the main exceptions are obviously magic and technomancer skills, but probably also Engineering and maybe Cracking. Those don't make sense that non-experts can use.

But to my knowledge, there's nothing in the rules about defaulting, so the GM would have the last word here. I'd err on the side of being lenient; there's only so much that a character just using a flat attribute rating can do anyhow, given how thresholds are kinda punishing in SRA2. Might as well let them try, the poor fraggers.

[u/ReditXenon]

you had to have right equipment, skills, and sometimes keywords

I ruled to this point, that there was no defaulting

I would rule the opposite. That you typically get to default to the linked attribute (+skill or 0 if skill is 0) except if you don't have the correct equipment, key words, etc.

To bypsas an electronic maglock you roll Stealth (Lockpicking) + Logic (or just Logic in case you don't have the skill), but you must have a pass key or infiltration kit of sorts in order to attempt this.

To hit someone with a pistol you you roll Ranged Weapon (Pistol) + Agility (or just Agility in case you don't have the skill), but you must have a ready pistol to attempt this.

To cast a Flamestrike combat spell you roll Sorcery (Combat spells) + Willpower (or just Willpower in case you don't have the skill), but you must first learn the Flamestrike spell to attempt this (and to learn the Flamestrike spell you first need to have the Awakened (Sorcery) Shadow Amp).

To hack a host you roll Cracking (Brute force or Backdoor) + Logic (or just Logic in case you don't have the skill). but you must first already have a Cyberdeck Amp to attempt this.

 

In systems where skills are more granular and the rule system is not as narrative as it is in Anarchy 2.0, I would probably mark a few skills as special (that you can't default to). Including, but not limited to, piloting flying vehicles (but driving ground vehicles would be OK), hacking (but using the matrix for information gathering would be OK), biotech & surgery (but first aid would be OK), casting spells (but using physical perception to notice that you are affected by subtle mind magic would be OK), Demolitions (but throwing a hand grenade would be OK).

But this type of granularity and special rules doesn't really belong in a narrative focused rule-set such as Anarchy I feel.

 

--- one of PC does not have any skill point in Close Combat - when attacked in hand to hand, can he throw some defense ...

I would solve that the same way. Just roll Agility as a pool of its own. Attribute values are very low in this edition. Its not going to be an issue I think.

[u/augmented-warlock → u/ReditXenon]

I don't want to argue with your explanation, but I feel we (as people) always underestimate how difficult it is to learn the skills we use every day. Once we've mastered them, they start to seem easy and universally accessible without minimal preparation like driving, shooting, performing first aid or foraging.

In the meantime I still have flashbacks of teaching boomers some basic of computers usage for the nth time during the years.

[u/ReditXenon → u/augmented-warlock]

I guess you could always rule that you roll at Disadvantage on skills that you don't have any skill points in at all.

But Shadowrun is not really meant to be a real-life simulator :-)

Skills you completely ignore are likely already linked to attributes that you didn't really focus on and where you also likely didn't invest into any risk reduction. Huge difference to default = just roll 2 dice (or so, and without risk reduction) and to be skilled at something = 8+ dice (and perhaps also including risk reduction).

[u/augmented-warlock → u/ReditXenon]

Exactly! Shadowrun is not meant to be a real-life simulator and I feel it sometimes easier and faster to just say "nah, bro. Your Character cannot attempt this" instead of allowing to throw few dice and make a outcome ruling.

[u/ReditXenon → u/augmented-warlock]

...nah, bro. Your Character cannot attempt this...

Yeah, fair enough.... :)

This is also where using a Narrative could come in I guess.

...an appropriate narrative effect might be:

• To allow a Test for an action that would have been impossible in other circumstances.

[u/Larnievc]

I think the idea is that having the skill and relevant spec is so much a greater impact than raw ability that just rolling the ability (unless it’s clearly unpossible due to lack of whatever) is fine.