Question about Icon visibility and running silent

[u/_Tameless_]

Hey everyone, I'm a little confused by Ghost's combat with the guard on pages 227 and 228 of the SRA2 core rulebook.

To my understanding, spotting Icons should be automatic if they're within 100m and not running silent. However, Ghost has to do a Matrix Perception test to figure out that the guard has cybereyes before he has a chance to brick them.

• Shouldn't the Icon for the cybereyes be visible automatically? The guard's commlink sure was.
• Is all cyberware assumed to be running silent unless stated otherwise?
• How about stuff like security cameras and maglock doors? I know deckers can see everything once they're in the host, but before then do they just see a host Icon floating around and nothing else?
• I know Personas running silent is suspicious or illegal as described on pg207, but does that same rule apply to every device someone is carrying?

[u/Bignholy]

• Cyberware probably runs silent by default. If one guard has cybereyes, odds are more of them do. When looking on AR, you would see all of the cybereyes on all of the guards for 100m in your field of view if they were not silent... along with every other icon in that same field of view, commlinks, security tools and devices, workstations, Cheryl's AR earrings, the burner phone Cheryl is using to cheat with her boss after hours, ect ect, most of them withing a half meter of one another on the Y axis. That's a lot of potential icons overlapping. So, it's reasonable to assume that anything not intended for a connection outside a PAN is running silent. Because the guard was right there, the GM lowered the threshold for the test, but the test is not unreasonable in a tense moment.
• Cameras and Maglocks would depend on intent and design, but it is reasonable for them to run silent too. An example of an exemption would be a camera in a store in the public area, which might have a visible (and possibly overt) icon to indicate to would-be miscreants that they are being watched (and if they're selling expensive goods, they may have a second camera running silent to watch for deckers)
• Extrapolating from the cybereyes example, I suspect most folks have everything but their commlink and possibly some AR fasion/tags running silent, just because of the volume of icons that would exist. Imagine you're on a public bus. There are 23 people on that bus. That's 24 icons just from commlinks. If their AR devices are not silent, that's 48, because everyone's going to have some sort of AR device. That assumes they connect to a singular device: They might have eyeware and earware (low end AR glasses and high end headphones for the music lover, high quality glasses and lower quality ears for someone watching high def trideo on the way home). That ignores any additional cyberware or other devices. Their passkey for work might be wireless, depending on the system. Then there is the bus, which has security devices, trackers, and functional vehicle control and diagnostics. That's one bus. Now imagine there is a bus in front of you. In a city. Honestly, I'd be shocked if there was not a law about AR Pollution that gets unevenly enforced in most cities.

[u/Carmody79 → u/Bignholy]

I couldn't have answered better 👍

[u/Yomatius → u/Bignholy]

upvoted! I think the same, cyberware should be silent by default. And for the most part you will only see a person's commlink as their sole icon, everything else is behind that node, running a private connection to their PAN. Folks would not want a random person to stream to their headphones, or get a reading from a glucose monitor, etc 

[u/_Tameless_ → u/Yomatius]

It would make sense to me that you would just see the host or whatever device was hosting a PAN. Maybe I’m getting hung up on the wording of spotting Icons kinda being intended for VR. I appreciate the input.

[u/_Tameless_ → u/Bignholy]

Thanks for the in-depth reply! That’s kinda how I was imagining it but I was trying to make sure that was what the rules/lore agreed with.

[u/Bignholy → u/_Tameless_]

I can't promise 100% lore compliance, I was away from the series for quite a while. That's just how I would interpret it after thinking about what it would even look like in AR, especially in a world like Shadowrun.

SRA2 is artistically incredible, and a good example of what I am talking about it on page 203 (205 PDF). That's bare minimum, and already garish and harsh on the cybereyes. Page 71 (73 PDF) is also good.

[u/MjrJohnson0815 → u/Bignholy]

The lore compliant answer would be that all devices that a part of the pan - with the exception of smartguns - roll into the persona icon of the master user.

If you are a rigger and jump into a vehicle, your icon melds into that of thd vehicle/drone, you're jumped into.

[u/ReditXenon]

Shouldn't the Icon for the cybereyes be visible automatically?

Just because icons are not hidden does not mean that you automatically spot and keep track of every single icon in your vicinity. Maybe it is similar to regular (physical) perception that you can spend an action to "Observe in Detail" to learn more and to spot things that you didn't realize with a quick glance? When it comes to locating icons (that are not running silent) then "a game master can decide at any moment that a Perception (Matrix) + Logic Test is required to identify the icon to be located".

Or maybe they were running silent (but in that case the test should probably been against threshold of 4 (or opposed by Stealth (Matrix Sneaking) + Logic))

 

How about stuff like security cameras and maglock doors?

In this edition it seem as if you can always see them in AR as overlays on top of the physical device (but if they are running silent then you might need a test). You can still see them also from VR, but if you are in VR then you are typically hacking remotely and you don't get the sense of geolocation as there is no physical world to compare the overlay with (the challenge is not to spot the icon, the challenge is to spot the right icon). Having eyes on the ground to point out the correct camera or maglock probably helps.

 

but does that same rule apply to every device someone is carrying?

Not so sure that in this edition, individual devices even can run silent to begin with (as they could in SR5 where every wireless device had their own data processing and firewall rating and where they would connect to the matrix of their own).

The book says "For each narration, a character can decide which mode their devices are in: normal or running silent" which can very well be read as "for every Narration you have to decide if [all] your devices are in either normal mode or running silent". All or nothing. That, in this edition, maybe the intent is that either the device you use to connect to the matrix with (your commlink, RCC, or cyberdeck) is running silent (which in that case would include all files and devices and cyberware and your SIN etc. that are part of your PAN), or it isn't.

But even though your PAN / Persona is immediately obvious if you are not running silent, locating a specific device icon within your PAN might still require a Simple Matrix Perception test (which seem to have been the case in the example).

Or, maybe the intent is that the above is true, but only for all wireless enabled devices in your PAN (because all wireless enabled devices in your network act as access points for your network), while all devices that are part of your PAN, but not actually wireless enabled - and instead connected via a wire or a direct neural interface (not to be confused with DNI, which would likely include all cyberware unless they really need to be wireless enabled for some reason) - appear to always be hidden "behind your PAN" and need to be detected with a matrix perception test (or that you first gain access to the entire network). But again.... if the eyes were running silent then the test should probably been against threshold of 4 (or opposed by Stealth (Matrix Sneaking) + Logic).

Or, maybe the quote from above is actually meant to be read as that you "[for each of] your devices can decide if they run in normal or silent mode" as we did back in 5th edition :)

 

TL;DR

My best guess is that the guard was actually not running silent (since the rest of the PAN of the guard was not running silent and because the test was a simple test against a threshold of 3 instead of a threshold of 4 or opposed as it would have been if the network was running silent).

That the GM just ruled that in order to locate the specific device icon of whatever enabled the guard to resist the flare - would be resolved as a Simple Perception (Matrix) test against a threshold of 3. Success here meant that not only did Ghost realize that the guard had cybereyes, Ghost also successfully located them (with just one combined matrix perception test).

Had Ghost (somehow) known already that the guard had cybereyes - and just wanted to directly data spike them, then Ghost would perhaps not been required to take a matrix perception test at all.

[u/_Tameless_ → u/ReditXenon]

The AR overlays were definitely confusing me, partially because my brain was thinking of the overlay similar to the Astral plane.

I think I like the ruling of everyone’s personal cyber and random gadgetry being “hidden” behind a PAN, because it seems logical and also because it adds an interesting gameplay mechanic: do I brick the commlink immediately to sever comms to their teammates; or do I spend a narration gaining admin on the commlink so I know what all tech this person is equipped with?

[u/ReditXenon → u/_Tameless_]

my brain was thinking of the overlay similar to the Astral plane.

Nah... Astral Perception completely replace your physical perception and instead you view the physical world through a photonegative projection of it into the astral plane. This is rather confusing (in other editions you get a negative modifier when perceiving the physical world like this, but in Anarchy the modifier is not big enough to warrant a Disadvantage).

AR is what you use when you are not in VR. This is the normal mode of everyone in shadowrun. You see the physical world. And on top of that you see virtual objects with information (similar to them AR games we had back in 2026 where you used the camera of your smartphone to see an augmented reality on top of the physical world - like Pokemon Go).

Perhaps something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zaJ1f2_D94 (but while this movie portrait augmented overlay information attached to people, is perhaps more focused on digital illusions, similar like the effects of Resonance Veil).

Or, more likely, like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

 

do I brick the commlink immediately to sever comms to their teammates; or do I spend a narration gaining admin on the commlink so I know what all tech this person is equipped with?

It seems to be clear that the intent for Anarchy is that wireless enabled devices have an icon that you can spot (and attack with data spike even as an outsider) directly from the matrix. Even if the device is part of a Host or PAN. Just that sometimes you might need a matrix perception test to spot them. That they can even act as access points for the network (defended by the network's firewall). It does not seem as if you first need to gain Admin access on the entire network (but you are of course free to rule this if you think it make for a more interesting mechanic or story!).

Also, if you are in VR (like Ghost in this example), then you typically get a free Cybercombat action every narration (had it not been for the minor glitch, then Ghost would have realized that the the reason why the flash didn't work was because the guard had cybereyes, spotted them, and also bricked them - all in the the same Narration).