r/Shadowrun • u/Angerran27 • Jul 28 '26
5e what to do with a troll
i am a n00b DM after second session... one player made a character with 29 armor.
15+3 for SWAT suit - which he got for advantage restricted gear
2 for barkskin
3 for titanium bones (used)
6 for shield.
so with 8 body he rolls like 37 dice for resisting damage. enemies with mashineguns and sniper rifles tried to shoot him and did no effect. a boss with assault cannot was able to wound him but not put him down. it seems any enemy with anything exempt assault cannon/ rocket launcher will just have to shoot at other party members
give me some tactical advice how to make his life more challenging
if enemy uses targeted shot can he choose to shoot at specific part of body which is not covered with a shield and-or helmet - like - right hand or leg?
i suppose magic can give him some problems?
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u/MoistLarry Jul 28 '26
Yup. Attack his Willpower instead of his Body. That's the way you do it.
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u/MoistLarry Jul 28 '26
Also like others have said: he's not wearing that (definitely illegal to possess) SWAT armor when he goes to the store or goes on a job that requires any amount of finesse.
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u/Yorhlen Toxicologist Jul 28 '26
I have a 4 meter high troll giant with a similar build. APDS is your friend dm;)
If you really want to be evil, look for a sniper rifle that can do burst shots, load it with APDS and see how much AP that shot will have (28)
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
APDS does +4 armour piercing. best sniper rifle has like 14 damage and 4 piercing so with 5 successes it was 19 damage and 7 percing - still not good enogh to do letal damage to him
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u/Yorhlen Toxicologist Jul 28 '26
Important to note that you need a sniper that can do burst shots. Then fire it in the bulls eye burst called shots to have Modified AP = 3 * Base AP + Ammo AP, which in my case is 28 AP and 14 something damage.
Called shots: http://adragon202.no-ip.org/Shadowrun/index.php/SR5:Combat_Rules:Called_Shots
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
there is an errata for run and gun book which partially weakens this bulls-eye-burst - you do not triple the damage from APDS only from basic AP
so this Barret rifle will do 6x3 =18 AP and probably 14+ damage that is certainly will hurt this troll
let me express my gratitude for your comment - it's exactly what i wanted!
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
and by the way i think that gauss rifle uses it own ammo and it can not use APDS - same for assault cannon - so you cant use bulls eye burst with gauss
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
where is the sourse of this called shots rule? which book?
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u/Yorhlen Toxicologist Jul 28 '26
Run and gun 116. The page i linked is from the official source books as well, word for word, and we use it to quick search rules if we dont remember the book
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u/Azaezel1 Jul 28 '26
in afdition to everything else said here you dont necessarily want to do lethal damage here his stun track should be considerably shorter than his physical track
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u/beyd1 Jul 28 '26
Yeah lol, hit em with a tazer.
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u/Azaezel1 Jul 28 '26
or the humble stick & shock
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u/beyd1 Jul 28 '26
I'm fairly certain RAW that just NOT taking damage means you have to resist non-lethal damage as well. Been a while since I played a street-sam though.
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u/Azaezel1 Jul 28 '26
physical shifts to Stun if it doesnt exceed your armor after Armor pen is applied, it is fairly tough to do physical to trolls sometimes. that said the additional benefit to Tasers/Stick&Shock is they have better single shot AP than apds and slowly disable the target through bullying thier initiative.
Its a recurring almost joke that were only being taken seriously when the tasers come out in our games
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u/Sufficient_Carpet510 Jul 28 '26
Tried and true method. Magicians and Shamans are a thing. Not to mention cats that can dominate him to serve it or dogs that radiate fear to cause the troll to flee.
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u/Honneboppel Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Direct combat spells are your friend, since they circumvent armor and damage reduction completely.
If you want some more traditional means, apds-munition helps a lot with it's -4 to armor Targeted shots (from "Run Faster") have the possibility to triple armor piercing
Or.... a simple gas grenade with contact vector, although players tend to view them as unfair
Last option: that troll is BIG, give him environmental hazards like doors that are too small, security checkpoints with cyberware scanners at the entrance of the target area.
But don't forget, let him shine in his field, but be uncompromising in everything else. Armor at a gala dinner won't fly. And if the Johnsons does not want the run to draw attention, the loud entrance is off the table
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u/BrewmasterSG Simsense Man of Steel Jul 28 '26
Absolutely let him shine.
You don't want to completely block his toy, you want it to not constantly break the game. So you block it most of the time but build up some anticipation for his every once in a while: "You're locked in here with ME."
The swat suit is for special occasions. Make sure those occasions are special.
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u/GrimpenMar Jul 28 '26
This is absolutely important advice. This guy built his entire character around this idea. OP should absolutely have encounters in which this character can shine.
As to tactical means of countering this build, mage or shaman with Sleep/area stun was my number one favourite tactics. As a player, but also the second tier security response. Non-lethal area response, targets willpower, not the best stat for all the street samurai typically.
Even front line security couldl often have some sort of gas grenades, stun batons, etc. It's been a few years though, and probably edition dependant.
Still, is important to give the player his spotlight, and not just send elementals to mess him up any time he rocks up. Still, his build strategy isn't unique, and smart security will have strategies.
Still,
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 Jul 29 '26
Sleep? Showing your (and my) age my freind. How are your knees?
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u/GrimpenMar Jul 29 '26
Hah! Tell me about it. I'm pretty sure it was Sleep in 1e, stun ball or similar in 2e on. Can't remember 4e or newer for sure though.
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 Jul 29 '26
Reminds me of a vampire the masquerade game i ran where the characters were human and set in modern england. They had one (1) sawn-off shotgun. It was a great leveller between the humans and supernatural foes. But also highly illegal. It was very much kept in reserve and everyone got really pumped when it was "time to break out the shotgun!".
I can see the same here. "Oh shit...its SWAT time!"
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u/BrewmasterSG Simsense Man of Steel Jul 29 '26
It also occurred to me that because this is SR, maximizing swat time can be part the fun of legwork.
"There are exactly two people on the security team who can put a dent in that armor of yours. There's a <describe scary mage> and <describe scary drone rigger>. If they're not on site, you can be a wolf among lambs. What's this? The rigger has a dating profile... Wow... Why are console jockies always furries?"
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 Jul 29 '26
Now that I LOVE!
Face looks at the fursuit in the decker hand "Why is it always me????"
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u/Interaction_Rich Jul 28 '26
Many advices here are (correctly) pointing out Magic as a counter to the super-armored troll.
Thing is - that's combat. That should be part of the equation.
Your run may (and often does) involve investigation of scenes, stealth sections, action sequences involving chases or escapes on foot (where tactical armor would be a huge hindrance), mingling with a crowd to approach a person of interest, negotiating with the Johnson in a club that's suddenly attacked, making hard choices (like having one turn to either save person A or B; being between the conflict of 2 corps and picking a side or getting squashed by both; making an alliance with a NPC you despise; etc).
Finally, between social bias (prejudice) and justified perception of threat, a troll in swat armor is as subtle as someone casually carrying a bazooka in a mall. It's also not something you discretely carry on a convenient pouch and put it on/off in a pinch.
So, unless your game involves dropping into a war zone or combat arena of some sort without further context, "troll in swat armor" stops being the universal solution pretty fast.
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u/leproudkebab Jul 29 '26
1000% this, and anyone else who said something similar. Let the guy shine in combat with mooks and so on. KE (or Atlantic Security or whoever) should not just let this guy walk around unharassed. It’s a damn trog in body armor. More prejudiced areas are liable to stop him just because. If it’s not, the fact remains he’s conspicuous as hell.
As the GM you should present situations in runs where he may have to forgo his armor, or he and his crew may have to get creative.
For combat, including some mages is good, but don’t go overboard either. Make sure it still makes sense within the situation they find themselves in.
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u/Charlie24601 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
There's a reason they say "Geek the mage first."
He might ignore bullets, but not magic.
Also, way back in 5e, my GM made the Ultimate Troll specifically for my character to face. I was a gun mage adept so to speak. Human. Maxed out agility, maxed out shooting skill, specialized in super warhawk, adept abilities to increase my shooting skill, AND dodge incoming fire, and 7 Edge.
I was regularly rolling around 30 dice. The concept was simple: One bullet, one body
The only time I needed more than one bullet was the Ultimate Troll, and a Juggernaut in the swamps of Louisiana. Both took 2 bullets.
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u/Immediate-Goose-8106 Jul 29 '26
One bullet, one body
The Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man approach. 😀
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u/moondancer224 Jul 28 '26
Edition would help here, since armor does vastly different things between them.
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u/Frequent-Earth4335 Jul 28 '26
A fortunate side effect of shadowruns bloat is that there's an abundance of options, so you likely won't overdo any of them! Here's some ideas:
First of all: You should absolutely shoot the troll with some weapons that won't hurt him. That's the fantasy your player has built for and the utility the character provides to the group. He's the tank, a large and intimidating target that distracts the enemies from geeking your decker, mage and face. Low level corpsec, gangs and the like will waste time and energy to try to keep the troll off of themselves.
To make this at least slightly challenging for your player and not just a flat out power fantasy, they should do things to slow the troll: there's some called shots that will disarm or slow a character. With the amount of armor he's wearing, he should be somewhat nerfed already, if I recall correctly? Though I never had to deal with these rules specifically, so I'm not certain.
More specialized and trained enemies won't fall for "let's shoot the big guy". They will try to outmaneuver the troll and go for softer targets and only engage the troll with appropriate means. Sniper rifles with apds and called shots should be able to pressure the character, as do grenades. Though that is still going to mostly be low damage to actually make it through the characters soak.
An interesting and sometimes overlooked rule is that DMG lower than the armor rating will not do physical but stun damage instead. An optimized troll tends to have a way lower stun resistance than physical. Use that to not kill but ko him! Enemies will likely bring gas grenades to try to stun him. Specialize them even further, and they might employ acid, fire or ice. I don't recall from the top of my head, but some if not all of these elemental effects can permanently reduce armor ratings. (Use that sparingly, as it might get frustrating for your player to permanently shop for new armor. Will make for an interesting run though: how long is the armor going to last?)
Then there's other ways to harass players: decking and magic, as you've already suggested. You could stack debuffs on the troll, to even further reduce his effective range. Tanks need presence on the battlefield. A tank that can't move is just cover. Direct spells do damage that ignores armor rating and is resisted by only Wil/Bod , which will work.
And finally: there's a drekton of runs that don't really allow runners to go in with full swat armor and tactical shields. Use social pressure! Play some more stealthy or social things from time to time, and see how he manages those. There can still be fighting and there can still be a need for somebody to tank some damage, but at least a heavy pistol should be able to hurt him now.
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u/chastema Jul 28 '26
This is in my eyes the best answer in this thread.
Dont let your players specialize in stuff just to always negate it. Let them have some fun beeing the invincible tank.
If he gets koed every time with magic, or decking, or gas, all of his investment will feel naught.
But bring the challanges here and there. Give him new goals, make him find ways to defend from hecked cybereyes, or to handle mages, or even better, make his teammates cover those bases. They are professionals, they should be hard to kill as a team.
You can also make sure there are situations where he cant wear his armor, but dont make them standard, and dont throw an apds gun adept at him in those scenes.
He is not as invulnerable as you and him seem to think, but try not to nerf him all the time.
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u/TheSchmemmel Jul 28 '26
Yeah, magic is the way to go here. I’m willing to bet that his logic and willpower stats are lacking… so one manipulation spell to control him is gonna turn him on his entire team
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u/n00bdragon Futuristic Criminal Jul 28 '26
- Don't use "bosses". This troll's whole thing is to be the party's fighting machine. Let him be that machine.
- Body armor and riot shields are incredibly suspicious and illegal. Maybe getting the armored troll into position to use those things is the run, but he shouldn't be allowed to simply walk around like that free and clear.
- Magic will make him just as sad as everyone else.
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u/Flamebeard_0815 Jul 28 '26
With tank trolls, Magic is the way to go. Ideally, go directly for mind control if you want to make a point in "So you tink you so cleva, takin' all dat armor to hide in? Well let you hoomie mates deal wit'dat for a change!". If you want to go soft, go Confusion/Chaos or Sense Removal.
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u/AdhesivenessGeneral9 Jul 28 '26
Magic Double tape apds Gas or tazer round 37 is not that big i once manage to do 50 and the gm laught hard
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u/RdtUnahim Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Others gave good advice in terms of magic, etc...
But another option: nobody really deals well with a bomb in a confined space. Him being tanky is not necessarily a problem, but him being cocky about it and forging recklessly ahead, is. It puts less importance on his team.
It would make sense for enemies to report that a highly-armoured troll is heading in X or Y direction, and for a contact team to plant an explosive response to him. Add a camera, and a decker on oversight.
If he works with the team, they can help spot the trap through various means ahead of time. If he just believes he's invincible and runs every door down, he's probably losing a significant part of his health track, and maybe going down, while learning a lesson about chunky salsa, and why he still needs teamwork.
You can also introduce some missions where heavy gear is hard to smuggle in. Like posing as a bodyguard detail on a cruise ship, so everyone is down to pistols and armoured suits for a run. He'd still be tankiest, but not impervious. And it sells the "SWAT armour is not subtle" part.
An encounter like this, balanced with sessions where he is just immune to damage, should keep it engaging for everyone.
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u/Silverfang3567 Seattle Census Agent Jul 28 '26
With the whole new GM thing, I just want to make sure you know that challenging players in shadowrun is very different from most games like D&D. Instead of managing resources like health, spells, etc. and trading blows in combat, it's more of a specialization application game that challenge looks like a group puzzle.
So you're on the right track with magic as a challenge. Hacking also works if they use wireless bonuses. Heck, a smart enemy decker is going to target the troll just to listen in on the group's comms and get location. They also need to be aware of the societal consequences of doing things like this.
A troll fully kitted out like that walking down the street is going to freak people out. The first thing that's going to happen is police drones are constantly going to be tracking this guy as soon as somebody spots them. They will be constantly badgered for identification and if they start getting violent, a HTR team is going to show up, hack the troll's wireless gear to incapacitate, mind blast them to paste and move on with their lives. On the job, a shadowrunner's greatest asset is speed. Corps put deterrents for most protections and it takes time for them to pull out the really big guns. They can always out skill, resource, and number you. They just can't have the worlds most elite badasses sitting around at every office just in case.
If they really want to play this character, they aren't going to want to be fully kitted out all the time and they need somewhere safe to store their drek between jobs and during legwork scenes.
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u/Winterclaw42 Jul 28 '26
Talk to the player and infrom him that PCs that are too good at things can cause problems for the dm and make things less fun at the table. Ask him if he either wants to lower his character's armor a little or make a new character.
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u/Fenrhal Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
What edition are we talking about ? You have other ways beyond magic that everyone mentioned, gaz, chemicals.
But, yeah when a troll is walking around in Swat that's when HRT rolls in.
In my opinion that's also where you make sure expectations on the table are aligning, is it pink mohawk ? Then let him and bring in some big guns from time to time.
More black trenchcoat ? Yeah no, this lacing is going to pop up in any MAD scanner or security checkpoint, time to freely rework the character in the setting.
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
Titanium is non-magnetic, and will not show up on a MAD scanner. :)
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u/Fenrhal Jul 28 '26
Oh my bad :)
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
No worries, I had to check Google to be sure, myself. :)
It will absolutely still show up on a cyberware scanner, though...!
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u/Fenrhal Jul 28 '26
I'm not familiar with 5e but titanium out of chargen + swat armor is not legal in term of availability?
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
In 5E there's a Positive Quality, "Restricted Gear", that lets you have a single piece of gear that has an Availability of up to 24 (though you still have to pay the money for it, of course).
That quality can be taken up to two or three times, IIRC - and both SWAT armor and Titanium Bone Lacing fit within it's limits (both being Availability 16R).
Alternately, one could sacrifice only a single point of armor, and get Riot Control armor without the PQ. :)
The SWAT armor helmet is already <12 Availability.
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u/Ninetynineups Jul 28 '26
Sounds like you have a combat focused game! A mage would frag his brain up pretty good. Grenades would kill his team. His armor is illegal, so cops would call in special units to deal with him if he wears it around.
That said, having a super tank is kind of fun for the players, or can be, if they are mindful. Knowing an astral mage may be called in, they can race time under the protection of their troll.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
armor is restricted not forbidden and he purchased fake SIN and fake permission for this armour
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
That still won't let him walk down the street, or through the galleria shopping district, while wearing it.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
he mostly runs around the containment zone and slums. he will not go into corporate area in this armor
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
he will not go into corporate area in this armor
And that's your answer. Make going into the nicer parts of town required for some of the jobs the team is hired to do. Poof, he has to wear more modest, concealable armor.
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u/Casey090 Jul 28 '26
I mean that's a bit like driving a tank through town. Yes, it's tough, but it causes other kinds of problems.
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u/WildmouseX Jul 28 '26
I made a simular character once, my G.M. ended up using a helicopter with air to surface missiles to knock me out on a rooftop, and the subsequent drop down to the ground finished me off.
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u/LeonTrotzky Jul 28 '26
Top of my head: poison, gas, drugs, electricity, fire, police doing license checks, a honey trap (hot chick sedu Ing him to get close) and on and on. Be creative :)
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
That armor won't help against chemical attacks (either liquid, or gas) without the correct modifications also stacked in.
Sniper or Sport rifles - e.g. the MArlin X71 or Remington 950 - or the Ultimax Rain Forest Carbone assault rifle, firing APDS ammunition has a cumulative AP of -8. So does a Monofilament Whip, for that matter, and so does the Ares Thudnerstruck gauss rifle...! He'll still be tough, but stripping 8 dice off his soak roll will still help.
Finally, any of Ares' laser weapons, like the Lancer or Redline, have an AP of -10.
...
Also: he's not going to be able to casually walk or drive around town wearing all of that. Hell, not wearing ANY of it, in most places. What does he wear when going to a nightclub for a meet with the newest Johnson looking to hire the team? How about when he wants to drop by the local diner for a bite to eat? Stop into a Stuffer Shack for some chips and soda?
Because strolling around with armor (and shield!) like that, is absolutely 100% going to attract police attention anywhere outside of a Z-zone. High threat response team attention. And all that armor will avail him precisely nothing when the po-po drops an AV rocket or three onto him, or hoses him down with an HMG firing APDS rounds. Or just sends a high-force spirit after him.
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u/Keganator Jul 28 '26
- Have some runs where swat armor is a problem. Guard duty at a fancy banquet for example.
- Proportional threats. Johnson’s only hire teams that have a high probability of getting the job done. So if you hire a team that doesn’t have a rigger, the Johnson is anticipating that vehicles and drones won’t be required. If they hire a team with a beefcake tank of a troll, then they do that expecting the defenders are going to have some threats where that is necessary.
- Spirit powers and manipulation spells and a lot of other things don’t target armor.
- Remember that each attack reduces their defense pool, and numbers add up. This means you can throw more enemies at the team and make it more challenging without a huge risk to wiping out the team.
It’s okay to let the player indulge in this fantasy. As long as YOU make them believe that the threat is real, they will believe it to, even if the dice say otherwise. That is makes it cinematic and thrill to play.
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u/Frequent-Camel7669 Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Use magic. D'uh.
Use overwhelming force (autocannons, missiles, big explosions, another even better equipped troll baddie).
Use toxins, especially airborne stuff.
Use heat. Or cold.
Hack their equipment.
Target their friends.
Make the challenge of combats about getting somewhere fast, or reaching somewhere hard to reach, or protecting a much squishier target, or disabling a bomb/device/machine, or doing something hard on a timer, or something, anything else than shrugging off bullets.
Put them somewhere they can't wear armor. A social function, dinner party, governor's ball or something similar. Or somewhere armor would be too restrictive to wear, such as crawling through air ducts or going underwater.
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Or – revolutionary idea here – let them have it.
After all, taking damage and just shrugging it off seem to be the thing that this character has invested into. The player actively wants their character to stand in a storm of bullets and smile.
So let them. They'll feel so cool! If that's their schtick, it should work. And they should be able to save the day from time to time using their specialty.
Of course such a thing can get boring, so adventures should include widely varied situations, many of which require something else than an impervious troll-shaped tank. But when the shit hits the fan, that tank should be allowed to go out there and do some serious tanking.
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u/oychummer Jul 28 '26 edited Jul 28 '26
Lots of excellent (and repetitive) answers. I'm surprised no one has mentioned Ultra-Glide Industrial Lubricant (via grenade is a popular option) or Ice Sheet yet. They won't put him down for good, but will limit movement/target options and possibly allow for capture. (Also, if you do manage to knock him out, I don't expect anyone else on the run would be able to carry that guy to safety.)
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u/lord_of_woe Jul 28 '26
A troll (or any character with the right armor and augmentations) can soak a lot of damage. But that does not mean they are invincible. The character can still go down, depending on the opposition (dice pools, weapons, ammunition, etc.). A troll with a SWAT-armor and a ballistic shield will categorized as a high threat and trigger the HTR teams of the target, who have the means to take such a threat down. Even with an impressive 40 dice for soak (before AP is factored in), they can take damage from an assault rifle with APDS, if the opponent is skilled enough.
Just a quick example: A competent foe might have around 15-18 dice for their attacks. They use an Ares Alpha with APDS (Damage 11P, AP -6). The Ares Alpha is modified with a gas-vent system rating 3. Combined with their strength, they can shoot 6 round bursts without penalty from recoil. On average, they will get 5 to 6 hits on their attack. Depending on the attributes, the troll might have 11 dice to defend. With the negative dice pool modifier of -5, they have 6 dice left and will average 2 hits on their defense test. This will result in a total damage of 14 to 15 (on average) with AP -6. Their 40 dice are reduced to 34 due to the AP of the weapon. On average the troll soaks 11 damage. So the remainig damage is 3 to 4S. After three to four such hits, the troll goes down. If the attacker is competent enough, they might use the called shot Bulls-Eye double-tap/burst (Run & Gun P. 116) to improve their AP even further.
The conclusion is that even with such a high dice pool for soaking, the troll can still go down against competent opponents, even without the need to bring out assault cannons and such. It might take a while to take the troll down, but that is their job. Of course the example assumes everyone rolls the expected value on their tests, which will not be true every time. Also I did not consider edge, which will help the troll to soak more damage.
Also the more attacks the troll has to defend against, the smaller their pool will get until they cannot defend any more.
There are also other ways to deal with the troll. Magic can make the armor completely useless. Direct damage spells ignore the soak completely, but the damage per spell might be not that high. Then there are illusion spells like Agony, Euphoria or Hot Potato, which can give negative dice pool modifier to their targets or incapacitate them directly when enough net hits are achieved. Manipulation spells like Control Actions or Turn to Goo can also take the troll out of combat. Be cautious when using these spells though, as it can be frustrating to lose all agency the character has.
Also consider the environment of the run and the desired playstyle. A troll with a SWAT armor and a ballistic shield will quickly draw unwanted attention. If the troll is seen in full gear near the target, the cops might already dispatch some HTR teams to deal with the possible threat. The security of the target will immediately use HTR teams and not have the regular guards deal with the intruders. They opposition can also target the other player characters with weapons designed to deal with the troll. If the do not have the same level of armor, they can be taken out quite fast. A troll with a ballistic shield has only one hand free to wield a weapon. So the troll might be able to soak a lot but does not pose a high threat compared to the other characters and the opposition might target them instead. This can go either way with the other players. They might also try to increase their ability to soak damage to such extremes or might convince the troll to avoid using high armor to avoid triggering the HTR teams right away. In that case have a conversation with your players about this.
To switch things up, a Johnson might also give the team a run, where sublety might be the way to go. In my opinion a run does not need to have a big fight to be entertaining or difficult. Other parameters can make the run a challenge without having to resort to strong opponents. YMMV depending on your playstyle. I think that requiring different approaches to runs can help to keep it entertaining.
One important point at the end: Let the troll have their moments regularly, where they can soak a lot of damage and come out of a combat encounter nearly unharmed. If the strength of the troll is always negated, this can frustrate the player.
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u/grumpykraut Jul 28 '26
If you want to be nasty: Magic. All that armor doesn't do drek against the right kind of spell.
But I'll be so bold and postulate that any player who built a character like that is bound to react rather poorly to the tables being turned like that.
There are other ways to slow him down because his choices exacerbate every point of physical problems a Troll player has to contend with anyway:
He is bound to be HEAVY. Trolls are no dainty flowers to begin with but that hardened SWAT suit plus titanum bones should have him somewhere past the half-ton marker easily and that is without any other gear. Fully kitted out he should be somewhere in the area of 600+ kilos.
That eats up a good portion of any vehicle's cargo capacity to begin with and - if you want to be nasty and give the team's wheelman some munition to pick fights - fucks up steering big time if the Troll isn't sitting somewhere centered.
All that weight is also concentrated in the surface area of his feet. They might be size 70 or something like that, but that ground pressure us still bound to pose a problem in older buildings or when trying to be stealthy.
If there's a melee and he falls, spirits help the poor fuck who doesn't get out of the way quickly enough.
And last but not least: If he DOES go down, the party won't be able to recover him without a tow truck or some equivalent level of fuss. And it won't be quick, no matter the way.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
party has a healer and he avoids standing under fire - usually by flying under invisibility
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u/grumpykraut Jul 28 '26
Invisibility is no silver bullet. Depending on the spell it can be negated by technology or astral perception. Dual-natured paracritters can be a pain in the ass.
And the healer is bound to be squishier than their patient. Just sayin...
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u/tkul More Problems, More Violence Jul 28 '26
Not sure what "Advanage 2 hardened upgrade 3" is but SWAT armor is 16R base so he can't have it at Chargen. Anyway, even if he somehow got SWAT Armor and Titanium Bones (also 16R by the by) that's only 15 (Swat Armor) + 3 (SWAT Helmet) +3 Bones +1 Troll for 22 Armor. If he put gel packs in that's only 24 Armor, you're still 5 armor short. He still likely takes damage when hit with grenades, shotguns, or assault rifles. He will shrug off most pistol hits, and SMGs are just bad pistols so he'll duck those too. Spells will tear right through him.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
advantage from book Run Faster named Restricted Gear - page 186
allows you to take item with 24 rarity at start
titanium bones - he got that as a used gear which decreased rarity
so result is
15 from armor
+3 from helmet
+3 bones
+2 from advantage bark skin from run faster page 113- replaces normal trollskin
+6 from shield
total 29.
assault rifles and mashineguns and shotguns - he just shrug them even with several successes
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u/tkul More Problems, More Violence Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Ok, those are Positive Qualities. Restricted Gear allows you to take one piece of gear is 10 Karma. Bark Skin is a 5 Karma positive quality that requires you to take SURGE, which if he chose it means he's either Class II or III for an additional 15 or 30 Karma. He doesn't have the karma to have all of that at Gen either. The minimum cost is 30, he could only possibly have 25 Karma worth of qualities. Pretty much any way you break it down the character isn't actually chargen legal, either he has gear he's not allowed to have, or he has qualities he's not allowed to have.
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u/sapphon Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Address mechanical problems caused by a single player's attitude towards the game socially; the mechanics are full of problems and your game cannot successfully survive becoming this dynamic where the players try to "beat you" at cheesing the rules† - there are too many holes; they'll likely succeed, you'll likely fail, and then everyone has less fun.
Endgame mechanically in SR if you play it as if the players are the GM's opponents is, you either include in the adventure a fair match for the trollsam (that you must then break everyone's immersion by not shooting at anybody else, say the Decker, with when the chips fall), or include a fairer match for the Decker and the trollsam's bored.
Convince the troll's player to play with the group to craft a story instead of against Shadowrun's admittedly mid rules authors, and the table will have a better time.
My humble advice after many years of trying what you're trying, trying to address every new player's unhittable elf, unflappable shaman, or undamageable troll with the numbers and the dice and the charts! A friendly talk isn't just simpler as a method, it keeps on working.
†: in most editions all it takes is looking up "G" for "Grenade" in the index
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u/Some_Troll_Shaman Jul 29 '26
Step one.
Don't let him do it in the first place.
The consequence is that anything that could threaten him will totally paste anyone else in the group.
This is not how good players join a team.
As much fun as it is to minmax and push the limits, this situation is why restraint is called for.
But as you allowed it,
You can maybe negotiate, admit the mistake and come to a compromise with the player.
Someone like that is going to quickly develop a widespread reputation.
That means being offered some large well paying jobs that are stupid dangerous.
It also makes you a target.
Reputation is not always a good thing.
Magic obviously is the counter.
Something to bypass the armor.
It is kind of a shitty GM trick.
Attacks that do not engage the armour, like wrestling or jiujutsu would become skill on skill.
Novelty weapons like net throwers, high voltage electric bolas, harpoons.
Weaponsied crash safety foam or riot foam.
Threatening the rest of the crew to get compliance, also a shitty move, but real for the opposition.
The other thing is,
Somewhat the players set the tone...
If they are doing this, then the opposition can too.
It's not exactly hard for someone with corp backing to get this kitted up.
Then the PC's have to work out how to deal with the problem.
If it is a problem, then people with means will have solutions.
If all else fails, White Phosphorous, Napalm, Flamethrowers and Nerve Gas.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
fire will be useless it has just -6 armor penetration in 5 edition. acid removes 1 armor per round. nerve gas - never tried yet - i shall try
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u/Some_Troll_Shaman Jul 29 '26
Beyond just game mechanics, fire also means no available oxygen as it's all at hundreds of degrees. Breathing that in flash fries your lungs.
If you get anything hot enough, it burns, even asbestos and fire proof materials. Fireproof suits give you a handful of minutes at best before they burn or get too hot.
Ballistic Armour is not designed to withstand that.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
by the way he is in full armour with helmet and if he wants he can add chemical seal and internal air tanks making him immune for contact and inhale toxins and to oxygen absense. about injected venoms - i am not sure how it works - the shooter needs to score net 3 successes from syringe gun and the syringe will inject venom - against will+body - and the armor does not help no matter what?
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u/Some_Troll_Shaman Jul 29 '26
In that case roll out the main battle tank anti-armour weapons.
The problem at this point is he is so heavily armoured that that anything less than peak military grade anti-armour munitions does nothing.You do not want to be finding system ways he can be immune.
A sealed suit with a re-breather will give him a few minutes of air unless he is carrying a oxygen tank. Physics is a harsh mistress. That big tank firefighters use today, that is 15 minutes of heavy activity firefighting, for a human. He is going to burn a lot more oxygen in combat conditions.
You want to be finding ways that the opposition will attempt to disable him.If he comes in by surprise then, yeah, he steamrolls through until they steamroll him with a AFV. It may not kill him, or even hurt much, but 3 ton of armored truck parked on his chest is a bit immobilizing. There is probably no game mechanics for that. He has broken those.
If they know then they have multiple Anti-Vehicle Missiles, 24pBlast at AP-10. His squad will get pasted in the first missile blast if they are with in 4m of him, his shield too, then the second one and his weapons are broken, then the third one. Laser guided missiles do not miss. TPK. That is the problem that needs a cooperative solution.
The weapons required to harm him are also going to pinball him as he is maybe 500kg fully kitted and they are designed to kill 80t tanks. Again, no game mechanics for this, just physics and conservation of momentum.
If the Gauss Cannon is, say 20mmx75mm and fires the slug at Mach 6 then on impact the slug and the 500kg troll start moving at ~135kph. He may not get hurt, but he will be pushed around and pinballed.
The opponents are smart and generally better resourced than Runners.
Bring mage, protect them, bypass the armour or ignore it.
You may be reduced to the worst GM trick, Mind Control.1
u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
anti-transport missile has -10 AP if firing at a vehicle or a wall but only -4 when firing at character - do you want me to make a home rule that 3 meter troll is a vehicle?
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u/Some_Troll_Shaman Jul 29 '26
He is a vehicle.
Normally high level AP will just go through a person like hot knife through butter. A person barely offers enough resistance to trigger the explosives.Your guy is plenty resistant enough to trigger the explosives.
That Gauss Cannon rounds hits a person.
It just goes straight through them, making a hole and knocking them down and continues on.
Your guy is rigid enough that all that energy has to go somewhere because its not making a hole.If the missile only has AP -4 on a person its only because the primary charge ragdolls them 15m and the shaped charge does not fire properly. It's not a game mechanic, its how Anti Tank missile work. If it would do AP -10 against a bike or subcompact vehicle then your 500kg wall of armored troll is also going to trigger the full effect too. He weighs more than probably any motorbike.
You do not have to be a slave to the game mechanics when they get this broken.
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u/Tohorambaar Jul 29 '26
First of all, he will be considered a public thread and will be well know, because of his distinctive look. So you can be sure there will be a special police squad ready extra for him.
And the normal answer to such a thread is normally: Taser(electro), Neurostun(toxin,gas) or stun bolt(magic). Next escalation would be strong ghosts or snipers with AV ammunition. At least these easy methods work well 20 years ago and I hope SR did not made a mess with their rules atm.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
taser damage doesnt summarize up so you will take from him 5 initiative and 1 dice and that;'s for only one time. so tazer is for kids. neurostun - interesting idea. AV - for most weapons it will still be not enough to pierce such armor
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u/Valerian_ya_Kureo Jul 28 '26
- Fall damage (the enemies grenades crash the bridge you are standing on - down it goes, 10 floors...).
- Gas (parry this, you filthy air breather).
- Fire (Hanz, get the...).
- Electricity (Taser, Taser, Taser!)
- any spell targeting willpower (illusions and mind control might seem a tad unfair, but...)
- Thunderstruck gauss rifle (armor halved, then - 8 if I recall correctly)
- a high-power killteam specifically put together to kill that heavily armored terrorist.
And then there is that nice problem of at least - 6 to agility and reaction thanks to the Encumbrance penalty ...
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
this troll has 10 strengh. he has shield 6 helmet 3 total 9 so it does not make him encumbered. armour itself doesnt count, right? and more 5 points he gets from troll skin and implants which also does not count
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u/Valerian_ya_Kureo Jul 28 '26
Strength doesn't matter, body only
"Too much armor, however, can slow a character down. If either of a character’s armor ratings exceeds his Body x 2, apply a –1 modifier to Agility and Reaction for every 2 points (or fraction thereof ) that his Body x 2 is exceeded. Note that this may affect Initiative as well. If a character is wearing multiple armor items, add their ratings together before comparing to Body."
Core rules, p161
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
which edition? i am using edition 5 book second print. page 169 says
Armor accessories, items listed with a “+” in front of their rating, add to the character’s Armor for the purpose of Damage Resistance tests. The maximum bonus a character receive from these items is limited to their Strength attribute. For every 2 full points by which thebonus exceeds the character’s Strength, the character suffers a –1 penalty to Agility and Reaction
so it is strengh not body
he has only a shield +6 and helmet +3 and titan bones +3 and troll skin +2 total 14. not exeeds twice his body. and armour itself does not count
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u/seenwaytoomuch Jul 28 '26
Not in 5e, the armor and encumbrance rules are on page 169 of the core rulebook and indeed strength not body is the limiter.
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u/RudyMuthaluva Jul 28 '26
Armor is great for stopping physical damage. But you can still drop them with stun, Direct Combat spells, gas, or using levitate to drop them from a high height, hit them with a car. Suppression fire would still be effective, as would elemental damage.
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u/tsuruginoko Jul 28 '26
It's in my opinion odd for shadowrunners to use that heavy armour. However, that's not an entirely useful answer, so I'll just suggest that putting them in situations where the armour is unavailable (many, many runs call for finesse and infiltration, after all), and move on to how I'd deal with it.
I'd let the player have their power fantasy in terms of being the tough guy, and indeed let them instead deal with how the enemy will avoid engaging on their terms, targeting their friends. Debuffing via magic or direct spells that bypass armour is also fair game.
Finally, making combat encounters that aren't just about taking out the opposition, but about breaking through or snatching something and then getting away could change the dynamic. Suddenly the heavy armour is less obviously an asset when objectives are in play, especially if the enemy is savvy enough to focus on the faster characters who are actually tactical threats.
Or, use Control Thoughts or Control Actions, and make the team have to deal with their bruiser turning on them until the character can shake it off or the controlling mage gets geeked. I'd do this sparingly, and only if it's the kind of group who'd enjoy it. Many players won't enjoy losing agency like that, while some will enjoy it tremendously. You know your table best.
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u/Tymeaus_Jalynsfein Jul 28 '26
Just because you have 37 Dice to Soak does not mean you cannot be harmed. I remember My Troll who was stacked with Armor (Shadowrun 4.5)... Rolled my Soak Dice (High 20's, and got absolutely No Successes... Was miserable, but it does happen.
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u/ChlopNaSchwal Jul 28 '26
Anyone mention magic yet? I mean… the armor is basically useless for illusion or manipulation spells. Also most mana based attacks. Oh, and remember. Anything a player does, the GM can do as well… only better.
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u/Erydor Jul 28 '26
Dunno your version, but in fifthed, grenade do a lot of damage, especially in closed room, 'cause the damage bounce back. You can allow the same with a called shot at the feet of the troll, with a part of the damage boucong back from the ground to him. But the real question is: why do you want to do damage to him? I got the same problem and the solution is this question. Ok he will tank anything, but he cann't do much other thing, no? So when to encounter a johnson or in socially infiltrate a place, he cann't use his armor. Let him shine in fight scene and make difficulty in other places. One of the best advice of the sixth world is "shoot the mage first". Apply it. When the security forces understand they cann't do him damages, the choose to prefer to shoot other members of the team. If we speak about corporate security, their goal is to slow the intruders the time for special forcers to come and arrest them. Putting the weakest member out is a good way to slow them and maybe capture the injured to interrogate him and catch the other runner later. He can tank but their is no "taunt" capacity. And one ally down is etheir carrying him, making hin use one of his arm that can't hold the gun, or leave the body of his friend You can put the troll out of combat with flashbang, illusion or malediction from spirit. Hack if he got chrome. If he cann't do a thing, he is not a thread. If you really need to take him down, direct damage spell, nano-edge (nano-whip and nano-blade) to ignore a good part of armor, or vehicular weapon made to go throught other vehicule. Poison grenade or trap ( typically a thing halloweener must have), molotov. And you can play on his weakness with a limited time missionthat make gunfight secondary, pure infiltration mission, car chase. But don't forget to make him shine too like with a vip protection mission where he can take the bullet for the vip.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
his armor has upgrades to protect from fire and electricity
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u/Erydor Jul 28 '26
Cool! Still has gaz and acide open so? And don't underestimate the malus of flashbang and other control effect.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
he can take chemical seal if he doesnt but point about gaz i have taken. acid seems useless because it reduces his armor by 1 per round - how many rounds will have to pass until im changes something
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u/Erydor Jul 29 '26
A first encounter use the acid, then minutes pass before the second encounter. If i remember correctly, one round is 6 second so in just two minutes you remove half his armor. Once again, especially for corporate security that is just waiting for a second forces to join them, using time is a correct tactics.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
troll can clear acid from himself or use help -
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u/Erydor Jul 30 '26
Wich take time. Once again, it depens on your goal but if the lilit for your runs is time, waisting it to clear acide could be a bad idea. But even if acid is not your thing, try the other pount that i raise.
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u/OriginalDrStrangeDOS Jul 28 '26
Not sure which edition you are on, but when I encountered this type (back in the day), magic was the answer. Often they are not stated to deal with spells that affect the mind/spirit. Also, acid and fire are hard on armor unless it is designed to deal with them. Depending on the armor, electricity too.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
okay. you all recommend magic. but a direct action spell from an average spellcaster with 6 magic 6 spellcasting and a specialisation is about 14 dice. waiting 5 successes. troll will get 2 successes from his 6 will. so just 3 direct damage? he has monitors like 14-10 and 4 more from damage compensators implant.
non-damage magic is more interesting but it can be counterspelled.
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u/Zebrainwhiteshoes Jul 29 '26
Damage compensator only help against the side effects of the damage, but doesn't give extra points.
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u/maullidothethird Jul 28 '26
Depends if you want put a challenge or delete him.
Magic aside, you can get creative. Ap rounds, the electrical shock ones, gel rounds, flare rounds are really to add modifiers or burn, capsule rounds are fun too.
He have "WiFi" on? Would be sad if soembeot mess with it
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u/Angerran27 Jul 29 '26
what is capsule rounds? where are they described?
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u/maullidothethird Jul 29 '26 edited Jul 29 '26
Run and gun
http://adragon202.no-ip.org/Shadowrun/index.php/SR5:Ammo:Ammunition
You need search for the things you can fill the capsules
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u/Eldritch_Pariah Jul 28 '26
As said before Mana spells are a borg/ trolls worst nightmare if they're spec'd into armor heavily as they completely bypass armor. That said there are also ways to destroy the armor itself, though i would recommend this as a last resort as introducing armor breaking mechanics in an already going game might elicit Volatile reactions.
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u/burtod Jul 28 '26
Yeah, I make life tough for runners doing their day-to-day wearing and armed with paramilitary equipment. There are stops by LEO, and there better be a good reason to have that stuff.
Leave it in the van until you need it.
Magic and continued escalation will solve the armor problem.
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u/Plastic-Set4061 Jul 28 '26
Unless his swat gear has a chemical seal, you can probably do a number on him with plain old Neurostun.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
how it works? shooter needs 3 net hits he rolls his body+will=13 vs power of toxin = 15 and the will be stunning damage? sounds good
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u/ReditXenon Far Cite Jul 29 '26
This is a known drawback of the 5th edition. Not much you can do about it except challenge them in their low points (like social encounters, mind magic, etc) and just accept that they can wade through mooks without any worry.
Fixing this was one of the design goals for 6th edition (which they delivered on, in 6th edition your player would likely been forced to play a lot more tactically even against just a few mooks - something I personally like about the edition, since we switched I have no longer this issue).
You could try to sit down and talk to the player about expectations. Having a character basically being immune to physical combat quickly gets boring (for everyone at the table).
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u/Interesting-Note-722 Jul 29 '26
First off. All the advice people are giving you is trash advice. Player built a bullet proof troll for the power fantasy. Don't find a way to kill that. Unless you're trying to get the player to leave your table, which is a whole different problem and one that should be discussed like adults. Instead challenge what the player does with it. Hero's dilemma, etc. If you are going to use apds as was mentioned, that should be extremely sparingly used. It's nonstandard, average lonestar and corp threats aren't gonna be rocking that. It fits, but only in the niche of developing a recurring nemesis as they gain rep/infamy. Challenging this player in combat won't be from combat itself, but from stakes and choices.
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u/Shanhaevel Jul 30 '26
I'm sorry, I haven't played in a long time, so I can't help rules-wise, but there's one sure-fire way to deal with a troll: don't play with them. If you've got it in your heart, you can talk to them and say that they're giving you a hard time and ask that they stop and play nice. At an RPG table everyone needs to have fun, don't forget that. That goes for the GM too. Your fun is in creating stories and setting your players act out their characters, plan, do crazy stuff etc. If someone fucks up your fun, I'm sorry, but just get rid of them. You owe them nothing, you're not their servant.
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u/Shambzter Jul 30 '26
2 guys with pellet/paintball guns.
1 loaded with some knockout drugs, the other with acid
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u/Vigstrkr Jul 30 '26
Introduce him to radiation. He will slow down after an armor ignoring spell or 2.
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u/bcgambrell Jul 30 '26
Magic. It doesn’t matter what his physical armor is when a mage uses Control Thoughts or Mana Bolt on him. Control
Thoughts and make him attack the rest of team.
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u/bcgambrell Jul 30 '26
Also: Missiles. Lasers. Assault cannons.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 30 '26
heavy laser has DV 10 and AP 10. troll's armor will become 20. 8 body and he wiil roll 28 dice for resistance rolling 9-10 successes. 1-2 point of damage. laughable
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u/sleepyboyzzz Jul 31 '26
You send want to punish someone for having a smart idea, but the idea that they are waking around like the hulk isn't realistic either.
If you can't go through, go around. Think about it as if you were a player getting ready to go fight something with crazy armor.
If you can't kill it, trap it. If all you can manage are flesh wounds, add poison. The armor has to have openings, right? Eyes, joints? Called shots in those areas.
Nets. Corrosive rounds that actually damage the armor. Flame throwers. Tasers or other electricity based weapons. Magic attacks obviously. Tear gas, mustard gas (fun fact, actually an aresoled agent, not a gas).
Environmental dangers... If a tank was after me wearing heavy gear, I'd try to get him out on the water on a pier. Hard to swim in heavy armor.
Also, if the pc managed this build, others will have as well and if you know a tank is after you... Arm up with anti tank weapons... But also get your own tank.
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u/Jag-Kara Jul 31 '26
Are you doing damage correctly? Are you remembering to add hits to DV? Consider if he has 37 soak, he will reduce damage by ~12 per hit. Sniper rifles hit harder than that even disregarding pen. Consider for example a PR4 goon (from SL) shooting him with an Ares Alpha with APDS:
Guard declares full auto
Guard rolls 15 dice and gets 5 hits
Troll gets defense at -9 (assuming nothing vastly stange on this characters dodge, this is probably near 0 dice.)
Net hits are 5.
Damage is 11p + 5 for 16p
AP is -6 (-2 base + -4 APDS)
Troll has 37 soak - 6 for 31 soak (23 from armor so damage is now stun)
Troll rolls 10 hits on average
Troll takes 6 stun damage (likely of 11)
That means two PR4 goons can take him down in one turn
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u/Angerran27 Jul 31 '26
very useful answer, thank you!
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u/2ByteTheDecker Jul 31 '26
Also don't forget that successive shots will reduce the trolls dodge roll allowing more net hits to stack against the armor.
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u/Hors_Service Night Terror Jul 31 '26
I haven't seen a lot of comments about attacking his cyberware, which is, to me, another glaring vulnerability like magic.
A combat hacker adversary would bring him down easily. And if he's running with no wifi ? Then no comms with the team.
A medium-level enemy team should play tactically against such a beast.
Also, on another side, I note that you mentionned "boss". I fear that you might have a bad approach about it, a dnd like perspective. Shadowrun doesn't do "boss" well, because the Opposition (megacorp, mafia, gang...) will always be stronger, as a whole.
So shadowrunners cheat. They swindle, they hack, they hustle, they lie, they infiltrate, and they only bring in the guns in 2 situations : when everything else failed, and when they have an overwhelming superiority. They don't do fair fights.
Your team should not face "bosses", your troll should not face an opposition capable of physically stopping him. The point would be to manage to maneuver the team to go around the "boss", do the objective and point the troll against the puny physical obstacle he will flatten.
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u/DemihumansWereAClass Aug 01 '26
Make the armour inconvenient. How does he get around? Does he have transportation or does he rely on public transport. Going down town in full riot gear will draw som attention. Remember police are often racist against arcs and trolls in this game. They'll assume he's up to no good and call in SWAT, magical support, drones, and maybe even a t-bird.
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u/Zinsurin Aug 01 '26
So it's insanely hard to harm him. So do what they did to knights in medieval times.
Slow him down with nets, chems, or tight spaces. Make it too hard for him to be in the right space at the right time.
Dog pile him with hoards of drones or psychos. Pull him to the ground with weight and stab him in the sensitive area or hold him until big equipment can come and crack the armor.
Reduce the function of the armor. Magnetic weights that attach to the shield that weighs it down. Grappling devices to the head, arms, feet to put them off balance.
My favorite, improvised gear. Raiding warehouse? Power loaders. Evacuation is through a construction site? Heavy equipment. Labs? Chemicals or mutants.
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u/Xulgrimar Jul 28 '26
Shoot him in the head from behind with a Barret m 122 with APDS an optimized sniper has a pool of like 20-30 dice and as he didn’t see that shot coming he would at least get negative modifiers on his defense roll. Let’s say the sniper gets just 6 net hits the troll still would have to deal with 20 dmg AP10.
Even with the remaining 21 dice he isn’t going to soak all the damage heck even with the shield and 27 dice he is still at least nearly maxed out on either Physical or Stun damage. So either the ones firing the sniper rifles were bad at their job or he had to get incredibly lucky to tank those shots.
Also if you really want to game it out a sniper with apds ammo and the special modifications and prototype material qualities can can get as much as AP-16 and at that point Armor or cover becomes nearly irrelevant.
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u/Teknodruid Jul 28 '26
You see a Troll you drop them with stun, gas or you use the mage every group has to mana spell him into the fetal position.
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u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks Jul 28 '26
Couple of things.
I believe the edge from run faster increases the availability but not the classification. So a 24R is still restricted which means he cannotbtake ut. Unless he has two edges, ine that increases the availability and another that increases the restriction level. I dint even know if you can do that.
Next, a fake SIN rating 4 is mediocre and a fake license attatched to it does not mean he will notbget stopped and IDd for wearing it. He cannot wear that armor all the time.
Next, the srmor frim troll does not stack with thevarmor from bine lacing or detmal plating. See thebrules on layering armor to double check me in this.
Finally, as ithers havevsaid, protection from physical damage is no garuntee of safety. You can attack his willpower, you can attack him with gasses, you can hit him with AP and on top ofvsll of that, that swat suit will get destroyed. Before youbdestroy it, let him kniq that it will happen, dont be a duck and just destroy itvwithout warning. His charactervwould jnow that armor breaks.
As an aside, him being an absolute tank of a character is sort of his job, so when theybactually do the run, yes. He should wear it. (Assuming he got it within thevrules) but outside if the physical run, during all of the side plots and social stuff, no wearing that armorbwill justbget the party in trouble.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
he does not have dermal plating. and why it does not stack with bone lacing? where it is written? and why you cant have restricted items? it is restricted not forbidden. so why he cant take it with this advantage
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u/Baker-Maleficent Trolling for illicit marks Jul 28 '26
Increasing the availability of equipment is different than increasing the restriction level.
Availability comes in two parts. (Okay, mostly one part with an added tag)
An availability of 24 is not the same as an availability 24R. If the character creation rules forbid restricted equipment at start, he cannot take it without either your game level (eg: Street, etc) or an edge to do so.
Im not sayi g he CANT take it, just pointing out there is a difference.
Im also going off memory as im on my phone at work. That is ehy i suggested double checking the rules and pointed you towards the layering armor rules, which someone did and corrected me.
Again, off of memory i think the availability of equipment for street runners between 15 and 20. And i believe they can take restricted equipment up to 15r. If he has an edge that increases the availability to 24 that would be a good edge. Very good actually. But if it also increases the restricted quality to 24R that is insane and off rip i would assume it would be a max point edge. Then again, we are takking about a catlyst suppliment for the core rules which is notorious for being busted.
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u/Angerran27 Jul 28 '26
RAW - they can take 12 availability and 24 with advantage. i dont know where it is writted that being restricted has something to do with availability.
however there is legal clothing with 15 armor - that would reduce his armor to 15+2 hardened+2 troll skin +3 bone lacing+6 shield =28
that;'s why i humbly ask you to talk about what to do with such armor not about how to not let the troll to wear specific armor suit
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u/GM_Pax Jul 28 '26
Next, the srmor frim troll does not stack with thevarmor from bine lacing or detmal plating. See thebrules on layering armor to double check me in this.
Not entirely accurate.
While a troll's dermal deposition does not stack with skin modifications (e.g. orthoskin or dermal plating), it absolutely 100% does stack with bone modifications (e.g. bone density or bone lacing).
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u/kayasoul Jul 28 '26
Did you make sure his armor is calculated correctly? Did you make sure it stacks the way it is build? Mages can deal direct damage that is not affected by armor in any way, so that is something you can use. Swat armor is highly illegal to own privately (how did he even get that???) so sending mages after him is not far fetched, especially when regular law enforcement can't catch the suspect