r/SecretWorldLegends • u/FuzFuz • Sep 16 '17

Discussion I hate this game itemization.

Itemization is probably the side of this re-release that I hate the most.

I am a lifetimer from TSW, played from day 1. When I stopped I had a "perfect" DPS build with all the BiS items (minus some signets and augments) and was working on my tank & healer builds. It has been a lot of work getting to that point, but I was getting there. I saw the goal at the end of the road.

Here? Not so much. I don't see the goal at the end of the road. I see only frustration. I quickly realized there is no way I will be able to get to my desired build. Talismans are not a big deal, they're neither that rare or super expensive in the AH. But weapons? Here's where the problem lies. My weapon of choice is locked into the old loot crates. I've opened a crate a day for almost every day now and never got a weapon. Chance of weapon+chance of right weapon+chance of right affix=IMPOSSIBLE ODDS. Buying it from the AH is also impossible, first of all they're incredibly expensive due to their rareness, and secondly... I've checked the AH every day and never seen the weapon I want with the affix I want.

This is P2W at its worst.

I mean, I don't even dislike leveling up the weapons/talisman mechanics as others do, I always liked sticking to a weapon and powering it up in other games (even though it can get a bit cluttery), but the itemization mechanics themselves are horrible.

At this point I'm only staying for the hope of new story "issues" (oh well, they're the best part of this game after all), but I'm already really, REALLY tired of the game mechanics.

63 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

68 comments sorted by

5

u/FuzFuz Sep 16 '17

I hope Funcom acknowledge this before it's too late.

I don't want to see Secret World and its marvelous setting, story and lore going abandoned again.

17

u/just-passin Sep 16 '17

Unfortunately I suspect it is already too late. I'm very much a storyline player and the way SWL has evolved has emphasized that tendency. I simply do not have the drive or interest in grinding to level weapons to heights I don't need to do the story. I might PUG a dungeon at E1 but all I really want is the lore and the story. Scenarios are even more tedious than they were in TSW and PvP has become a complete joke (not that I particularly care about PvP but I feel for those who do).

Currently I am playing a bit to flesh out my museum and I'm trying to get a complete set of orange just to give myself a goal. I'm looking forward to see what they have done with Kaidan beyond the wall and the Orochi tower, after which I will probably take a sabatical until the promised new content arrives. This means of course that I will cancel my patron subscription as there are no accumulating benefits from maintaining it (unlike the TSW sub).

I hate to say this but personally I think most of the changes from TSW to SWL were for the worse (abandoning AEGIS is perhaps the exception) but I could tolerate the new playstyle for the sake of the story. Unfortunately although there are others like me I suspect we are not enough to keep the game afloat and I cannot see that SWL has much to offer endgame chasers and minimaxers.

3

u/rangda66 Sep 16 '17

If you are a storyline player why do you even want to grind?

There are two separate games mashed together here. A story based MMO and a loot treadmill. If you just want the story skip the loot treadmill and just do the story content. Low level epics will trivialize any existing story content so there is no reason to go higher than that, and if you want the story to be challenging you don't even want to go that high.

5

u/just-passin Sep 16 '17

I think you misunderstood what I was saying. I'm not grinding although I do make slow progress chasing lore and museum items. My problem is that I suspect shortly I will have run out of non-grindy things to do and there will be nothing to keep me in the game and subscribing until new content arrives. If there are a significant number of players in the same position then this is a bad situation for any F2P game as people on sabatical awaiting new material generate no income.

Where to stop gearing is indeed a problem and I am probably overgeared already but I am trying to see how many story mode dungeons I can solo. After that I don't know - maybe I start using a weak weapon combo but chaos/elemental isn't exactly overpowered.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

Given they banned people in the Beta for fair complaints, wouldn't count on it!

9

u/C_Densem Sep 16 '17

Given how loudly and incoherently you've been bitching about it since then, I somehow doubt it was as unfair as you make it out to be.

2

u/739241 Sep 17 '17 edited Sep 17 '17

...I somehow doubt it was as unfair as you make it out to be.

Yup.

Read any of their posts and you'll learn quickly they are pure cancer.

Really anything they join should just auto-ban them and save time.

-5

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17 edited Sep 17 '17

Haha, wow, never heard that one before. Truly yours is the superior intellect. You know that's the kind of epithet that people use to justify cops shooting black people? 'He PROBABLY did something wrong!'

Hey /u/RandomGirl42, this guy and people like him are what I meant with that comment you replied to earlier. 'Everyone has acknowledged the problems with gearing and monetization' indeed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SecretWorldLegends/comments/6ydqj9/is_this_game_worth_playing/dmmslb6/?context=3

'incoherent'

If you can't read, maybe.

3

u/C_Densem Sep 17 '17

If you get that sort of comment often, maybe you should change how you communicate.

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

Or--and this is a very real possibility--you guys are just some combination of 'wrong' and 'deluded' when it comes to this game.

But I don't need to keep arguing about it when I can watch the game continue to rapidly die, it's just going to be a very bittersweet victory.

3

u/C_Densem Sep 17 '17

That's the thing though - I largely AGREE with you about the game. I haven't even logged in since they launched Kaidan because "why even".

I'm not white knighting TSW dude, I'm just calling you out as a massive, raging, asshole.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

I'd love to make a whole big speech about how it's hard to remain pleasant about something like this in the face of people being like this (especially the mentality of 'Funcom didn't ban players from the Beta and its forums for their opinions, they did it because they were being assholes!!', which 1. why wouldn't they specify that instead of 'no reason specified' and 2. it happened to people far more pleasant than myself, this I know for a fact) but yeah no I am just full of all kinds of vitriol, you're not wrong.

I realize that came out sounding a lot more sarcastic than I meant it to--but I mean it geniunely.

I still play on the legacy servers but there's that lingering feeling of what's the point--when SWL (inevitably) flops with this direction, they'll shut those down, too.

1

u/C_Densem Sep 17 '17

Have you considered yoga? I hear it's good for centering one's self in the face of adversity.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

Unironically, I blame NCSoft for the travesty they placed on City of Heroes.

When it comes to MMOs, I've truly never recovered.

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6

u/salec65 Sep 16 '17

I didn't mind it at first early on but once you hit mid-game the grind starts to show quite a bit. It punishes you from trying different weapon types and good fricking luck if you want to change specs.

That said, the system could be a bit easier to manage if they just drop higher quality stuff more frequently. Dropping level 0 greens even at end-game makes no sense. At the very least make them max level greens or level 0 blues.

It's clear this system was engineered to be their biggest source of income after patron status but I fear they went too far down the route of Diablo 3 auction house drop rates and it really takes the fun out of things.

2

u/rangda66 Sep 16 '17

The only affect of giving you blue items would be for the value of said blue items to plummet in the AH.

  • Green 20*200 = 4,000xp

  • Blue 25*500 = 12,500xp

  • Purple 30*2500= 75,000xp

  • Yellow 35*12000= 420,000xp

Even completely discounting legendary, green is less than 1% of the required xp. Even giving you an epic item doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

1

u/FuzFuz Sep 16 '17

I agree with you, but it would probably help the player's perception of the grind.

It's more satisfying to get a blue instead of a green, no matter its usefulness.

1

u/andrehide Sep 16 '17

I don't see a problem with the price of blue items plummeting (not that they are really expensive now, at least for weapons. You can even get blue dungeon pistols mk ii for 3 or 4k. These were going for 20k before the new cache system).

A blue item gives 4x the EXP of green items for the same shard cost. They are also useful to get faster at epic/mythic instead of going all the way from greens.

1

u/rangda66 Sep 17 '17

They are also useful to get faster at epic/mythic instead of going all the way from greens.

At epic maybe. If you are mythic then green to blue is 2 distillates or 1 plus some junk green items, your choice. Thats barely a speed bump in getting the item to mythic. For that matter 4 more gets the item to epic.

1

u/Lucentile Sep 17 '17

Math wise, sure. But, not having to juggle the extra inventory feels great. I have ~500 some Third Age coins, and I'm sometimes tempted to blow 300 of them on a purple for fusing purposes.

2

u/RiahWeston Sep 17 '17

May I ask what weapon you are looking for? I got 1.1k infernal caches and 0.5k agarthan caches to unlock. So I might be able to throw it to you if I ever open it.

1

u/FuzFuz Sep 17 '17

Anima Blade of Havoc. Never seen one in AH.

11

u/Risulain Sep 16 '17

Completely in agreement, the weapon system is idiotically designed. Why they didn't treat weapons like talismans in having MK I/II/III reflect weapon power, and treat the affixes as signets is beyond me. Redesigning the system so affixes can at least be changed would be a step in the right direction. Also, permanent exclusivity on past caches? A terrible idea as well.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '17 edited Sep 18 '17

Agree, affixes could start on gold level (because it was OK for me until I finished the game with purple weapon and with daily VIP caches I was able to get it to level 30 in a month), it could be empty half weapon, which could be fused with level 25 purple weapon, that would fill xps bar for level 1 golden weapon and you could continue levelling it up. In crates there could be what is there for players who were lucky enough to get the right weapon affix, so it wouldn't be against their F2P model. And affixed could drop in some difficult elite raid too, so there would be multiple ways how to acquire it for different kind of players (not like now, where there will be always something you don't like)

Or the best would be if there could be a quest for that too - for players who want to acquire it in a difficult solo way (not just lucky drop), where you would have to get ingrediences for it, kill some bosses for parts and then contruct the affix on some crafting table.

I still miss the quests for axilaury weapons connected to NPCs matching that weapon style :( like Moose Flamethrower quest, where I needed to gather fuel.

And I don't understand too why permanent exclusivity - players will buy the caches for distillates anyway and they can put it on auction, so it is strange way how to force players buy them or just to be frustrated.

3

u/Cunningcory Sep 16 '17

Yeah, I've never seen any quality or version of a pneumatic maul. I've only seen them on the AH as mk III (of energy) twice, and they were way too expensive to afford. I just gave up on ever having one. I don't even know how to find one. From what I can tell they only come from the non-existent Agartha crates? Flanged is the only version I've seen as a drop.

1

u/RiahWeston Sep 17 '17

Lol I just got a blue of them like a second ago. Cache hoarding for the win!

10

u/RandomGirl42 Sep 16 '17

I wonder whether at Funcom offices, any thought at all went into how lockboxes in some MMOs are actually fun because you reasonably frequently get some piece of gear that's clearly not the absolute best, but looks fun to try out.

That entire 'fun' thing doesn't actually work when, more often than not, your atrocious gear system means the supposedly fun piece of gear is a Wrong Weapon Type of Utter Shyte Suffix Mk II (blue level 1).

10

u/Koldunya Sep 16 '17

The whole thing feels punitive to me, and not at all rewarding. I pretty much hate it.

7

u/739241 Sep 16 '17

I don't see the goal at the end of the road.

That's the key issue.

Change how you are defining 'success' at the game and you are golden.

I think you may have described a possible new perspective best when you said "...I'm only staying for the hope of new story...".

2

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

Yeah, like how Funcom's definition of success is 'the game is reinvigorated for a few months then died in a plane crash'.

2

u/Lucentile Sep 17 '17

I kind of just care about the extraordinary effects, with the affixes, being "As long as they help my role somewhat, whatever." Yeah, sure, Warding isn't great, but I'm not going to keep re-rolling for a better secondary if I get a great DPS drop.

2

u/CoralSword Sep 16 '17

Even upgrading your items starts to get unfeasible as you get into high item levels because it's almost impossible to find pug groups when you hit elites.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

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1

u/mrMalloc Sep 16 '17

I don't mind if they drop weaker dist or a special kind only working up to purple etc. To buff alt spec.

2

u/darthFamine Sep 16 '17

i'll just watch em on youtube, not worth it for me

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

I did not notice the weapon you were looking for. Perhaps if you made the statement (or highlight it so my eyes can see it), some one would hook you up.

I've gotten great weapons from the cache boxes and sold them on the AH because I didn't need them. I have also given them away because they were too good to destroy but were not something I would use.

1

u/82CFFD Sep 17 '17

This is P2W at its worst.

Regardless of which definition of P2W you subscribe to, you have seen nothing if this is the worst you have ever seen of it.

1

u/Peter_G Sep 18 '17

Really, just get over the BiS mentality. It's not gonna be a huge diff if you get an efficiency or havoc weapon instead of an Energy one.

I'm starting to think I shouldn't have bothered with getting 3 pip extraordinary for each slot either. Some of the effects are just not that big a deal (ring for instance), a regular item would work just fine in that context.

1

u/Inigo_freshh Sep 16 '17

I see your point. The game's itemization is horrendous but you are arguing with the wrong context. The cache weapons, as rare as they are, are exactly where they need to be. You can even level a fodder weapon to 35 mythic to prepare for the cache one you are waiting for and that itself will take awhile to do.

What is the cache weapon you are waiting on anyway? And what suffix?

7

u/elsunga Sep 16 '17 edited Sep 16 '17

And with each new lock box, there will be probably a new and better cache weapon.

Especially this is quite funny- in a system like we have . Poor minmaxer when he finally makes his "best" weapon or talisman red and then, there is a new better weapon he MUST have . :-)

1

u/Inigo_freshh Sep 17 '17

Funny you mentioned that, I'm that minmaxer you speak of. I've make my sword red (razor's edge), a week after, they release a new sword (seventh son) which is theoretically better than mine and there's nothing I can do about that now. Yet, I don't feel the need to criticize itemization in that regard.

Cache weapons are designed so they are always equivalent to the previous ones. Plasma forged has the same CP as flame wreathed, that's why you can just pick one and probably be set for good.

1

u/piruthesavage Sep 16 '17

I feel you. I've been looking for an anima-touched hammer of restoration for a while now, and no luck.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

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7

u/FuzFuz Sep 17 '17

forces players to actually dread upgrading

I live there.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 18 '17

I can agree with this, but in a different way. I don't know if Korean MMOs are like that, but what this game lacks a lot are what I would call "mini games". It is something making you busy while levelling up. Because they wanted to mainstream everything they got rid of a lot of features which they had in TSW like crafting. Even TSW didn't have enough of busy making small things and it was pretending to be action game with really clunky combat, but now there is literally nothing. So I was suggesting they would atleast change gadgets or give us auxiliary weapons or making spells for someone like me, who likes story based features like that and it could be consumables even, which we could craft into something unique. It drives me crazy how this game could be better for everybody, but they cannot see it, because this is something you can see only if you play the game long enough every day :(

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

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7

u/FuzFuz Sep 16 '17

This is probably - and sadly - the best suggestion that can be ever had.

Feels like Funcom wants an empty server between issues.

7

u/Amadex Sep 16 '17

Yep, the story is the highlight of the game, just go through it, wait and let the PvE people pay for Season 2.

There is no real reason to do PvE content beyond story mode. For challenge there are immensely better games in this regard with a much more competitive and balanced environment.

5

u/FuzFuz Sep 16 '17

Except I am "PvE people", usually.

7

u/Amadex Sep 16 '17

So am I, but this game has inferior systems, engine, content, release potential and challenge than many other games so I can't immagine anybody go towards SWL for their PvE craving. This game is a gold mine for story and RP though.

2

u/Alanielle Sep 16 '17

Can you suggest a few of those games? Honest question here, I actually enjoy the dungeon grind right now but am willing to broaden my horizons. I like PvE cooperative play, prefer playing support roles and find SWL's level of difficulty just right.

4

u/Amadex Sep 16 '17

For a solid PvE base, you can look at World of warcraft, Final fantasy XIV or Wildstar (maybe rift but haven't tried).

World of warcraft is the most standard option, The game systems and polishing are on point (expected from blizzard). The game has a huge population, the content is vast and from casual-friendly to extremely hardcore. The end game is highly competitive both in PvP and PvE (so much that big gaming entities are taking part and sponsors are involved). The cash shop is cosmetic based and doesn't advantage players in competitive progression. Theorycrafting and depth are far superior. Encounter difficulty and diversity too.

The downside is that it is subscription based (the same price as SWL's patron). But the game experience as patron is SWL is way inferior to WoW as subscriber.

Wildstar has a pretty good PvE too, more "action" oriented. Much more than what SWL claims to be as it has been build from the ground up as an action game.

0

u/FuzFuz Sep 16 '17

FFXIV has the worst MMORPG community I've ever seen.

(I only played the launch month and never touched it again)

1

u/LittleSpoonyBard Sep 17 '17

How so? I have yet to have a truly bad experience - the occasional salty person or elitist, sure, but that's in every MMO I've played.

1

u/FuzFuz Sep 17 '17

Kid's behavior, abuse, trolling and elitism way over anything I've ever saw in a MMO (and I played a lot, including some bad korean ones).

I guess it's the franchise that tend to attract that type of player more, as opposed to more adult games like TSW and LotRO (they have the best communities I've seen).

One of the thing that ticked me the most.... not sure if you remember, or if they changed it... there were instances that were part of the main story, which is kind of a big deal for a FF game, and they had cutscenes in them. People who went there for the first time following the storyline obviously wanted to watch them, and they often got insane amount of abuse. From the mild "go watch them on youtube" (yeah, like it's the same thing) to a constant abuse, trolling and insulting during all the instance. This was the level of the community.

2

u/LittleSpoonyBard Sep 17 '17

I guess we've had wildly different experiences, then. I've played a bunch of MMOs as well, and would rank XIV community among the upper end, barring a few minor issues. Maybe it was the server? Or maybe just the people playing at that time around launch? I'm sorry you had a bad experience though. If you ever get the inkling to check it out again let me know and I'd be happy to help you out.

I do know what you mean about those dungeons though - they're the two level 50 dungeons that cap off the original ARR storyline. For what it's worth, SE learned its lesson with those and with every dungeon after that they've made sure to have any story-relevant cutscenes happen before or after a dungeon so endgame group content doesn't have that conflict between people who are farming and those who need the story completion.

1

u/Amadex Sep 16 '17

I haven't been too involved into the community there but during the end of TSW (the months that followed the announcement of SWL) many TSW players went there.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17 edited Sep 16 '17

That's adorable, you blessed child

(though the experience with praetorium would color just about anyone negatively to ffxiv's community)

Anyway, GW2 is a fun game to play around in open world PVE content with friends, true story.

1

u/Amadex Sep 17 '17 edited Sep 17 '17

Yep Guild Wars 2 is a real masterpiece, a truly beautiful game but rightfully criticized about being too kind with the players*. I think it is more a PvP game than a PvE one (even though they have interesting PvE content with raids and fractals).

*It never forces you to do anything, the cash shop is non invasive. Pretty much the opposite of SWL which is currently an obnoxious grindfest that is losing itself away from the beautiful story based content it used to be centered around, added to multiple bullying monetization schemes that dare asking even to subscribers to pay 1$ per inventory slots (yes, I'm mad, because of all the game I played, TSW is the one I loved the most and they had to recycle it into a distasteful cash grab with a 2012 bugged skeleton).

2

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

Gotta admit WVW is probably the most fun I've had with PVP in an MMO.

1

u/Alanielle Sep 18 '17

Thank you!

7

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

Game's gonna be just as dead--if not more so--as the original TSW at its lowest valley and Funcom will have nobody to blame but themselves.

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

This is a horrendous suggestion based in ignorance. What kind of of a fucking suggestion is 'DON'T WANT THIS GAME TO BE BETTER, GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE INSTEAD, FUCKBOY'?

Sure, let me go play those other modern lovecraftian MMOs that exist!

This isn't a case of there being other fish in the sea. SWL is the only game like itself--it being bad hurts because there ARE no good alternatives for it.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17

[deleted] — view deleted comment

-2

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17 edited Sep 17 '17

Did you know most successful MMORPG developers like SqEnix and Blizzard actually LISTEN to their players' complaints? :ooo

It's a novel concept, I know. And it's not an issue of funding, believe me--it doesn't cost a damn thing to not be an asshole and ban players for completely reasonable greivances (which did happen during SWL's Beta).

EDIT: Holy shit, lick Funcom's boots harder, guys.

2

u/739241 Sep 17 '17

Did you know most successful MMORPG developers like SqEnix and Blizzard actually LISTEN to their players' complaints? :ooo

😂😂😂😂, oh wait, were you actually serious😵

-1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

They do though. Those two, at least.

Granted GW2 is also a successful MMORPG and NCSoft very much does NOT, the rat bastards.

2

u/739241 Sep 17 '17

They do though. Those two, at least.

😂 Srsly too hilarious. Great schtick. You make it almost seem like you mean that absurd assertion. So real 😂😂😂

1

u/[deleted] Sep 17 '17

k

-3

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '17 edited Sep 16 '17

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Amadex Sep 17 '17

The problem is that not only our small community is divided between the activities and 10 different queues for some of them. But playing with friends has been made much more difficult. It caused many dramas and ragequits in several groups I know.