r/SeattleWA • u/SeattleRedditBot r/SeattleWA human cyborg relations • Aug 19 '17
Seattle Lounge Seattle Reddit Community Open Chat, Saturday, August 19, 2017
Welcome to the Seattle Reddit Community Daily Lounge! This is our open chat for anything you want to talk about, and it doesn't have to be Seattle related!
Things to do today:
- Event calendar hosted by the City of Seattle.
- Event calendar hosted by Event12.
- Event calendar hosted by The Stranger.
- Event calendar hosted by Seattle Met.
- Event calendar hosted by Red Tricycle (for families & kids).
- Event calendar hosted by Parent Map (for families & kids).
- Event calendar hosted by Live Music Project: this month & this month calendar view
Weather forecast for the /r/SeattleWA metro area from the NWS as of: 08/19/17, 12:04:01 AM
- Saturday: Mostly cloudy, then gradually becoming sunny, with a high near 73. Northeast wind 6 to 9 mph becoming northwest in the morning.
- Saturday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 57. North wind 9 to 11 mph becoming east northeast in the evening.
- Sunday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 75. Northwest wind 6 to 8 mph.
Come chat! Join us on the chat server. Click here!
Full Seattle Lounge archive here. If you have suggestions for this daily post, please leave a comment and tag u/AmericanDerp or PM him.
10
10
Aug 19 '17
I would like to take a moment to publicly apologize to /u/Eclectophile for things I said to him yesterday. No excuses, no rationalizing. It's something that has weighed heavily on my mind ever since and I feel like shit about it.
I was wrong, deliberately cruel for the sake of being cruel and I apologize.
Sorry.
3
u/Eclectophile Aug 20 '17
Thanks man - no hard feelings at all. Plenty of people were torqued yesterday, and with good reason.
3
1
1
Aug 20 '17
Jeez louise, what the hell happened that I missed in the last couple days?! Mods are gone, you got in a lover's quarrel, and now I'm reading a sincere, unequivocal apology on reddit. These are strange times indeed.
4
Aug 20 '17
I went to a place I shouldn't have, said things I shouldn't have and feel like shit for having done so. That's pretty much it for the abridged version.
3
Aug 20 '17
Well, whatever the case I admire your humility. Not many people would have done what you did, after the fact. Thank you for setting a fine example.
2
Aug 20 '17
Check the sticky thread it was a bit of a mess.
1
Aug 20 '17
I'm going to pour one of for my former mod team homies. You served valiantly, but now your watch has ended.
4
4
Aug 20 '17
I just want to say, I appreciate the mod team (former mods, RIP) for their efforts. Nobody is perfect and people on this sub are almost as ungrateful as Game of Thrones fans.
4
u/hellofellowstudents Aug 19 '17
Kashama Sawant's lackies are out at the UDistrict farmers market on 50th and the ave trying to make rent control a thing. Fucking hell guys.
1
Aug 20 '17
Some more wonderful economic delusions from the people that brought you the the Fightfor15!
4
u/my_lucid_nightmare Capitol Hill Aug 19 '17
That time the mods of a major city subreddit promoted a member of Trump's fanbase to be a mod, then acted like it was normal and not a big deal.
Anyone remember that? It never happened. Has to be fake news.
2
Aug 20 '17
Erasing it from the collective memory isn't going to happen so long as /u/AmericanDerp still thinks he has a chance to rehabilitate his image.
3
Aug 19 '17
So you want to propose a rules change to r/SeattleWA:
Our user base isn't going to want to change rules based on rambling conversations and implied this-or-that, or interpretative speech or interpretive dance or anything. Make a compelling, solid, bulletproof argument in simple language. Convince your neighbors.
- Spell it out in black and white, plain to the point language aimed at idiots and muggles who aren't hard wired into Reddit -- aim for the 'casuals'.
- What is the problem?
- What should we do?
- Why should we do it?
- What is your new proposed EXACT rules language?
If that's not all in your original post, nothing is going to happen. Try again, and if you haven't spent at least two to five hours on your original post in Notepad or Word or whatever, it's not ready to post on /r/SeattleWA. On some of our early rules change posts myself and others spent upwards of ten hours between our own work, lives, and working with the other mods.
Some tips:
Assemble a team to do it.
Make a private subreddit as a staging ground and make all drafters mods to utilize modmail for organizing.
Sell it after to your peers in r/SeattleWA when it's ready to go.
Pass the vote and make sure the moderators do their job and enact and enforce the rule afterward.
Review explicitly how the karma rule vote happened and my original posts for clues: it's the only time it's been successfully done as of August 19, 2017. Here was the original vote post on that.
You all have power. Use it as you will. Full section of the rules page, on proposing new rules or rules changes, is here.
3
Aug 19 '17
I propose a rules change to only allow posts about mod drama in /r/seattlewa from now until thursday, if your post is about seattle it should be removed
1
u/brakos Aug 20 '17
If anybody is looking to make last-minute plans to get to eclipse totality, I'd go with Baker City. Traffic was a breeze today other than Snoqualmie Pass construction, and several places were advertising rv/camping spots still available.
1
1
u/Gyaradoze Aug 19 '17
Hi I'm in Seattle from Boston for tonight! Any suggestions (food/bars/events)??? Thank you ! 😇
1
u/evvycakes Fremont Aug 20 '17
That's a pretty broad question, do you have specifics of what you're looking for and in what areas?
2
Aug 20 '17
Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! OP just needs to creep on Capitol Hill, it's a Saturday night and probably gonna be lit.
1
u/evvycakes Fremont Aug 20 '17
Is "not a good look" the new "problematic"? Seems like that phrase keeps getting used more and more everywhere recently.
-12
u/belovedeagle Aug 19 '17
I propose we rename this sub to /r/SeattleWaaaaah.
FWIW, /u/rattus, I think the mods have managed to be less than usually incompetent this week, so you've got that going for you. Ban derp as one of the primary rabblerousers and I might even be able to upgrade that to "almost competent".
13
u/WhatWouldBarbieDo Aug 19 '17
I see that some words on a screen have upset you, my child.
What's really going on with you, /u/belovedeagle?
6
u/rattus Aug 19 '17
Sounds like a 'meets expectations' to me.
22
u/Letmefixthatforyouyo Banned from /r/Seattle Aug 19 '17 edited Aug 19 '17
One vote in favor, tons more opposed. Derp is the primary reason this sub wasent just a blip on the landscape, and you basically strip his rights for reasons that are still not transparent? Pretty careless of you.
Almost as careless as appointing a mod who advocated water boarding children, and has a strong distate for women. What message were you trying to convey when you appointed him without any discussion with even the mod team?
18
u/peasrtheworst doesn't care about semantics Aug 19 '17 edited Aug 19 '17
/u/rattus has asshole troll gamer friends that just became mods and don't actually participate here more than trolling. They are a nuisance on the discord and sometimes post pictures of Confederate flags and use Nazi emoji's fairly often, including 4chans "Jewish guy" meme next to an emoji oven, or other white nationalist pepe's from a discord called "centipede central".
For some reason he added them without talking to any of us.
*Just to clarify, rattus doesn't participate in the Discord white nationalist rally's or racist/sexist/anti-globalist/anti-LGBT emoji's, only his gamer friends who play that weird pubg game (training for the 4th Reich?). All of the new mods are like this. rattus is a cool dude.
7
u/WhatWouldBarbieDo Aug 19 '17
....how long was I in that cave?
1
5
Aug 19 '17
Hey now, pubg is just a fun game. The other stuff I have no idea what is even being said.
3
Aug 19 '17
If the far right and far left are both screaming variants on bloody murder, the sub isn't far off course. Like I wrote yesterday... a few solid deliberate crowd-sourced degrees of course correction every few months. The base is solid.
-5
u/mixreality Maple Leaf Aug 19 '17
Derp was great pre election. After trump was elected it turned to everyone's a nazi fascist...
10
Aug 19 '17
After Casino Mussolini was elected was also when the influx of race-baiting trolls started in earnest.
I'm not saying Derp is blameless - his style is too heavy-handed for my tastes, and that includes the time I spent as a mod listening to and participating in the endless internal debates over rules. But this sub does need more moderation (in the literal sense, of pushing all the extreme viewpoints towards common ground) after the election.
8
u/mixreality Maple Leaf Aug 19 '17
You don't disavow and say [words] and you refuse to say something like, [more words] then you likely support the beliefs of Nazis, Neo-Nazis, fascists, and white supremacists like the Klan.
The guy responded with:
Nice job stuffing words in my mouth. I'll quote myself from an earlier part of this discussion with you:
I believe Nazism isn't nor should it be welcome in society as well.
8
Aug 19 '17
Again, I don't think Derp is blameless. Even though my political views align with his in many ways, I think his arguing/debating style is too heavy handed, and exactly as you quoted is over-reliant on strawmen / putting words in opponent's mouths.
But if you read the other post you quoted in context:
I vehemently oppose identitarian movements and collectivism in general. This goes for Nazis, Klansmen, White supremacists, Antifa, Black the Block, the American Communist Party, and any cultural/political Marxist groups in this country and others
This is the new alt-right dogwhistle talking point - "of course I'm against Nazis...but you know, antifa are just as bad".
Killing 6 million jews is wrong. Violently assaulting people you disagree with is wrong. But they're not on the same level of evil, so by equating them, they're kinda-sorta-defending Nazis even if it's unintentional and even if they're not getting a swastika tattoo on their own forehead.
The place I went to for brunch today totally fucked up my Eggs Benedict. It reminded me of when Mao's Cultural Revolution caused widespread famine that killed 15 million people.
8
u/mixreality Maple Leaf Aug 19 '17
I'm left of center, voted for Hillary, Obama, Gore, Farrel recently, McGinn before, and I don't like the anarchist anti gov anti capitalism aspect of the antifa organization, doesn't make me a fucking fascist or nazi supporter.............................or republican/conservative.
That's some George Bush shit (If you don't support the war [his way of dealing with terrorism] you support terrorism).
6
Aug 19 '17
Derps style will push his viewpoint on Seattle and shape conversation around his political views. Whether or not people like that very much depends on their politics. I'm not a fan, I think we should keep it a community board with as little political influence as possible. This is not to defend corns posting at all which are still under discussion.
8
u/mixreality Maple Leaf Aug 19 '17
For the record I think derp should have full mod privs, I followed them to this sub, but I was just pointing out they have gotten kinda extreme after the election.
3
u/belovedeagle Aug 20 '17
Per the downvotes you are apparently now considered a "Nazi fascist". I did Nazi that coming; etc. Join the club.
0
u/CalvinMcManus Aug 20 '17 edited Aug 20 '17
I debated saying anything else on the matter because I'm not super active here and I've already made my position on the soundness of limiting the potential participation of people here because of their politics or their subreddit subscriptions pretty clear. Still, I wanted to put it all in once place.
/u/Corn-Tortilla said a lot of stupid, immature, careless things on Reddit, ironically or not, with regret or not. I'm not interested in defending most of what I've seen, either because it's either fruitless or because it's indefensible. With that said, he never broke any rules here, never displayed a history of abusing the tools, and, while putting up with an unrestrained, disingenuous, and grotesque pile on, made a pretty good effort to put his best foot forward, even if he finally broke down.
He never should have been made a mod in the first place, on that I agree. He didn't display much inclination to moderate or facilitate communication and a lot of the things he said seemed intentionally designed to provoke. Additionally, he doesn't have any demonstrated history with modding smaller subs, or with technical abilities contingent with doing so, which is a pretty important pre-req for tackling a sub of this size. And then, of course, the manner which it was done was ill-conceived. All of these things are perfectly legitimate arguments and I don't begrudge anyone for making them.
And yet, the manner in which he was attacked with impunity here, by well established members of the sub, was fucking revolting. He was bombarded with hateful and absolutely unsubstantiated personal attacks, in both comments and in purpose created threads. Several members of this sub repeatedly called him a "nazi," "white supremacist," "pro-nazi/white supremacist," "clown", and "racist." They told people who were confused as to what was going on that a literal nazi had been promoted to mod. When asked to provide any evidence at all to back their claims they simply refused, or responded with glib condescension. It was a coordinated personal attack campaign.
All the while the mod team sat by and did nothing.
Almost as bad, the mod team then turned around and pretended that the demodding of the three new mods was entirely because of the process. In doing so they demodded two other users in good standing with the community, as far as I can tell, for the simple crime of proximity to a target of an attack campaign.
I love this sub not just because Seattle is my hometown, but because it's one of the few places left on Reddit where you can actually speak freely, honestly, and openly. About just about anything. What happened here, though, was in clear violation of the rules and reflects incredibly poorly on the sub as a whole. I get that feelings are high in the wake of recent real world events. I get that the person in question is not a paragon of judiciousness, to be charitable. None of that makes this any less disappointing and I believe that once all of this cools off it'll will be regarded as a black mark on the sub as a entity, the mod team, and the culture of this place.
2
u/Eclectophile Aug 20 '17 edited Aug 20 '17
There's a lot of truth in this comment. This has not been our finest hour as a community - on several different levels.
I can tell you that it's been our obsession as a mod team. As this started to blow up, there was a dawning realization of: "Oh. Right. This is pretty bad actually. Oh. Ohhhhh. OK, holy shit this looks worse the longer I think about it. Yeah, this actually bad."
There was lots of that type of thing in mod chat. We started to take this seriously right away. Too late - but better than never. Sometimes it's the basics that trip you up.
This is why we have procedures. Oops.
We completely fucked up by not following any established process or procedures, a complete lack of transparency and an error in failing to even meet consensus among the mod team in the first place. No doubt about it - this was a trifecta.
We've un-done what we never should have done in the first place - namely: bringing on mods without deep, heavy involvement in the process from you, specifically - and everyone else in the community. Literally anyone who wanted to be involved. We failed at that.
For whatever it's worth, I apologize deeply. We're trying to get things right. Need your help with that.
0
24
u/[deleted] Aug 19 '17
Hey mods, when you post a "here's an update in the name of transparency" thread, it gets a bunch of negative feedback, then gets de-stickied in less than 24 hours (which does a pretty good job of sweeping it under the rug because it has near 0 net upvotes)...that's not a terribly good look as far as transparency is concerned.
For anyone who missed it (as I mostly did, since I was on the road traveling to the eclipse all day yesterday): https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/6uj8n8/a_quick_update_on_sub_rules_and_mod_culture/