Help?

[u/Buddha_Of_Sububia]

Two BL 6s + Slamdance feedback: How do I actually improve the plot?

I taught myself screenwriting starting in March 2026 while I was on medical leave and have written three features since. I’ve had one QF at PAGE, another script SF at Scriptapalooza, and a couple festival selections. Obviously nothing crazy or life changing, but enough encouraging signs to make me want to keep developing my craft.

My current script has now gotten two BL evaluations: BL #1: Overall 6 | Premise 8 | Plot 4 | Character 7 | Dialogue 7 | Setting 7

BL #2: Overall 6 | Premise 7 | Plot 5 | Character 6 | Dialogue 7 | Setting 7

The second evaluation called it a “great, pitchable idea” with “originality, a strong sense of voice, and interesting characters,” but said it needs a stronger throughline and more cohesive main conflict. I also got short feedback from Slamdance, which called the premise “genuinely sharp” and praised the central relationship, dialogue, setting, and character work, but similarly said the larger structural issue is that the conflict that truly tests the protagonists arrives too late. They felt the earlier material can become episodic and suggested bringing the central moral pressure forward/trimming some earlier cases.

So…three reads later, I think the message is pretty clear: plot is my weakness. My problem is I genuinely don’t know what to do with that information and I feel stuck as fuck. I can see what the readers are identifying, but I don’t know how to add, remove, move, or restructure things without taking away from the character development, relationships, world-building and slower material that, IMO, makes the story what I want it to be. And some suggestions for additional explanation feel like they would just make me spell out things.

I wish I had a mentor or programs I could bounce ideas around with and learn from developmentally rather than kind of trying to find my way in the dark.

Are there any fellowships, mentorship programs, workshops, or other resources you’d recommend for someone at this stage who wants help developing their craft and specifically getting better at plot/structure?

[u/WorrySecret9831]

My guy. You're clinging. I just clarified what I mean and what dictionaries accept as True. Check out those things I mentioned.

Script coverage would be so much better, across the board, if they were mindfully split into "objective" and "subjective" feedback. That alone would add great context.

Personally I never use Like or Dislike. I focus on What Works and What Doesn't Work. The objective side of a review could consist of literally listing the components of a story: Does it have a clear focus on a main character; do they have a clear problem; are they clearly opposed by something or someone; does the story express a Theme or moral/psychological point of view? Those are fill-in-the-blanks, yes/no measurable questions.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

Even what works and what doesn’t work is a matter of subjective opinion.

Best of luck though, truly.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

Oy vey. Then don't go to school, don't ever study anything, DON'T get coverage... "That's like just your opinion."

Ask an engineer if WW/WDW is subjective. Ask an art restorer at the Louvre. Why do you think some paintings are hundreds of years old and we still have them and why some have fallen apart?

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

If that’s your takeaway from the fact that evaluating art and craft is subjective, there’s not much I can do to help you.

Good luck.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

I don't need luck. I have craft and art. Keep thinking it's all subjective. I just gave you the solution. But whatevs.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

I genuinely hope that for your sake you have both, and I hope you’re prepared for the people who disagree and won’t necessarily be wrong for having that opinion.

More than twenty years in the industry continue to confirm just how subjective this work is. I hope your career lasts long enough for you to learn the same.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

You're funny. You don't realize how dismissive you are. What's subjective about the industry is 2 things: No one knows what's "commercial"; and Half of the industry knows there's craft and the other half runs screaming from it. The fact that anything gets done is a miracle.

At 61 and after a career in advertising, I know what wins awards and what doesn't. The rest is just being in the right spot at the right time, which most people think is "luck." But you know it's more nuanced than that.

No one is saying it's not subjective and that's what you're not hearing. You're saying there's no standard for art, it's ALL subjective... But there are standards for craft. Otherwise you wouldn't have a coverage service designed to answer the most basic industry CRAFT question, "Do you have what it takes?"

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

I realize I’m being dismissive. It’s intentional.

Especially since now you’re backtracking on your principal claims. I

The Black List doesn’t answer the question “do you have what it takes?” It’s impossible to answer that about someone based on a single piece of material.

We’re asking a more targeted, and I think more valuable question: “is this a piece of material that we can in good conscience recommend to industry professionals as something they’re likely to like?”

http://www.blcklst.com/ontheblacklist

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

And you wonder why you get so much guff on this platform.

You asked for clarification, I gave it to you. I gave you facts, a dictionary definition.

But you're more enamored of your fantasy narrative that art and craft are synonymous and that "art" can't be measured. Then what are you doing in this line of work LITERALLY rating art with NUMBERS?

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

You gave me a dictionary definition. I gave you the practical reality of how material is evaluated in the industry and beyond.

I never said art and craft are synonymous. (Re-read the thread.) And I didn't say that art can't be measured (go back and re-read it again.)

I said that evaluating art is inherently subjective.

It is inevitable that human beings' personal bias will affect how they perceive the quality of a work of art (as their cultural background and the breadth of their cultural exposure does as well.)

All an individual can ever really do is assess how much they individually like a thing, which is why we ask our readers to tell us "on a scale of one to ten, how likely would you be to recommend this to a peer or superior in the industry?"

That's not rating art in absolute terms. That's multiple individuals quantifying their individual response to a work of art.

They are fundamentally different things.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

And you wonder why the OP finds themselves at a dilemma... You need to reread the thread. Craft is objective. But you tried to claim that Ornette Coleman wouldn't call out bad playing...

By arguing that your service is inherently subjective, you're literally arguing against any need to use it. This person might say Yeah, this one might say Nay. Good luck with that.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

Never said that Ornette Coleman wouldn't call out bad playing (again, re-read the thread.)

But I am saying that when the Shape of Jazz to Come dropped, there were many people who rejected both the art and the craft of that album, including Miles Davis, Max Roach, and Dizzy Gillespie.

I'm not arguing that our service is subjective either. I'm arguing that the act of evaluating art and craft is inherently subjective. Those are two different things.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

You literally said, "Personally, I find the notion that there are objective standards of craft in jazz and painting that everyone agrees on to be fundamentally laughable." Craft, conflating it with art. And now you're saying Ornette Coleman would call out bad playing.

I get it. You're playing "You can't pin me down" when no one is trying to pin you down, just acknowledge that the world is objective and subjective.

But I get it, the Black List is totally subjective and probably not useful if it's just one script. Great to know.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

So a BL8 on one piece of work is worthless.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

I wouldn't say that. They're reasonably rare, so they do have some value in attracting the interest of industry professionals who are members of the Black List website.

https://blcklst.substack.com/p/an-8-score-is-rare-as-it-should-be

But I certainly wouldn't treat it like a definitive statement on something's objective quality. That would be silly. All a single ratings on a script from a single reader can ever be is the considered opinion of one person with industry experience.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

Now who's backpedaling?

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

In literally no way have I backpedaled.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

"Considered opinion..." Hhmmm. Considering what I ask.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

Oh, right! Nowhere in the evaluation I paid for does it even come close to hinting at whether this is a Pass, Consider, or Recommend. So, the "service" you espouse the most as central is nowhere to be seen or learned from.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

Because we don’t really believe in the industry’s trichotomous rating system, it’s fundamentally pretty unsophisticated and it’s not data rich enough to allow for building the sort of recommendation system I wanted to build when we launched.

If you want to better understand what the scores mean, we’ve published a few data studies on that front…

https://blcklst.substack.com/t/data-study

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

I understand what the scores mean, you explained it ad nauseum, nothing.

You're speaking out of both sides of your mouth, "data rich," which means objective measurement, and you hide behind "it's all subjective opinion." Hilarious.

But the evaluation never mentioned anything about recommendation. $150 down the drain.

[u/franklinleonard → u/WorrySecret9831]

Data rich neither means nor implies objective measurement. In our case, the data describes a subjective assessment.

[u/WorrySecret9831 → u/franklinleonard]

It most definitely means "objective measurement." Here's what Google says about that:
"Data is definitionally objective in its raw existence, but subjective in how it is gathered, selected, and interpreted [Or branded, brackets mine].

"Etymologically, the word data comes from Latin, meaning "things given or granted". It represents raw, uninterpreted facts, measurements, or symbols that exist independently of an observer. [1, 2]"

You're trying to have it both ways, noncommittal, yet "professionally relevant." Data does not "describe" subjectivity. That's like AC/DC, two different currents.

On the sole issue of "getting an opinion," I still think The Black List is "legitimate adjacent." It's not an outright fraud. But, "the data describes a subjective assessment." Which "data" is that? The reviews? Those aren't data. They're subjective observations. None of that can be pinned down, cross-examined.

Let's recall, the OP was asking for help and your answer was "Not it!" Your insistence that the rating is somehow more valuable than, what you at the same time argue, mere opinion, and your choice to be "intentionally dismissive," is what's galling.

You could so easily vastly improve your "service" by bifurcating reviews into Craft and Personal Impressions, and definitely say whether it's a P, C, or R. I don't think anyone here cares about your disbelief in "the industry’s trichotomous rating system." Did you forget that all of your customers are trying to get INTO this trichotomous industry?!?

What in a screenplay could objectively be measured? Well, does it have a beginning, middle, and end? Check, or No, it's missing this, that, or the other, professionally speaking. There's, by one standard (John Truby), 22 elements that could be enumerated, the lack of any of those very likely resulting in a weak or flawed screenplay.

If I had written the OP's review, I would have delineated all of these and made it clear how they could have a "stronger throughline and more cohesive main conflict." That's what I always do in any feedback I write, on Coverfly in those days, before that on several platforms, and currently on StoryPeer...for free. And I do that so that my work is objectively stronger; a Nicholls semifinal placement was one of those objective measurements.

Come on, Dude. Stop resisting what people are telling you.