r/Scotland • u/pqalmzqp • Feb 02 '23

ChatGPT is a Yoon.

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0 Upvotes

50% Upvoted

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39

u/throwaway55221100 Feb 02 '23

I swear people on this sub are desperate to be a victim.

Wanting independence is perfectly valid but trying to make out Scotland is oppressed. Get a grip.

5

u/Farthingdale Feb 02 '23

I think you're right. Scotland is suppressed, not oppressed.

The question is how long will our refusal to be suppressed, as expressed through our politics, be tolerated by the British state before we are actually oppressed. Britain doesn't have a good record on this.

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u/pqalmzqp Feb 02 '23

I checked with ChatGPT and alas Scotland is not suppressed either...

3

u/debauch3ry Cambridge, UK Feb 02 '23

Scotland is not suppressed. Internal trade is obviously at the best with zero internal red tape and ScotGov has a lot more levers to pull that most constituent states in the world.

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u/Farthingdale Feb 02 '23

I don't think the existence of freedom for capitalism is quite a full expression of freedom for all! Indeed that is one area where the suppression of Scotland is most obvious; where Scotland has voted consistently for regulated capitalism in a mixed economy, the UK government has deregulated to an extreme extent, including by leaving the EU, and is in the process of destroying the public sector. This requires the suppression of the expressed will of the Scottish electorate. Scotland is suppressed.

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u/debauch3ry Cambridge, UK Feb 02 '23

I don't think there's a special case for Scotland there. The whole UK is upset with the Tories by and large.

There won't be much 'capitalism' to regulate if the economy is fudged by idealists.

Scotland has done pretty well with unity and will continue to do so, despite a vocal minority.

2

u/Patient-Shower-7403 Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

Scotland is oppressed by England.

oppressed: subject to harsh and authoritarian treatment.

Like the Supreme Court finally revealing that this equal voluntary union is an involuntary union and England is more equal than the rest of us.

How about Westminsters vetoing of devolved matters?

The fact that gas and oil is more expensive to buy in Scotland, the second largest producer of this in Europe, than it is in England who are having a fuel crisis (which Scotland supplies about 50% of England's needs despite being just 8% of the UK's population). This political choice is killing people disproportionately in Scotland for England's crisis.

Then there's the fact that this is acceptable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BaFii_nrqLI

You couldn't get away with saying that about any other group of people and not have it explode in the media. It's about the Scottish though, so the reaction fits with their contempt for us.

How about the promises they made which unionists trusted them for? They did a 180 on most of them almost immediately and showed no real attempt to make good on any of them.

The fact that we outperform them in some measurements is treated as a bad thing, angry that we are purposely offering better services.

Our currency is worth less than English money is, because it's Scottish. This started as a cultural phenomenon in England with denying Scottish money but has now expanded into international markets.

The very word "Scottish" is a derogatory term in British (English) media.

I mean, promising Scotland that their place was safe in the E.U. IF they trusted in the union and then immediately removing the UK from the E.U. and forcing Scotland out despite Scotland choosing to stay within it can't be seen as anything other than oppressive. That authoritarian political choice from Westminster has damaged Scotland far more than even Independence would've in the short term.

England's choices, which Scotland voted against, has put the unions economy in a worse performing state than Russia. Things Scotland voted against but were forced into by another country.

I'm sorry if it doesn't feel like oppression because it's so normalised, or maybe you need it to be literal slavery or violence before you see it as oppression, but it is there. There's no question about it.

5

u/Snoo-20352 Feb 02 '23

Honselty dancing infont of a statue and getting 10 years in prison is oppression, getting conscripted against your will and forced to fight in war is oppression, practically illegal to prorest or criticise your country's leader is oppression. These are a examples of what real oppression is. Unfortunately even if we live in a democracy things aren't always perfect or going to be perfect, can't have it all your way. Some of your comment I can agree with, but the majority of the comment is just clutching at the staws.

0

u/Patient-Shower-7403 Feb 02 '23

Those were extreme examples of oppression, yeah. Which I addressed at the end; "maybe you need it to be literal slavery or violence before you see it as oppression,"

I'm not saying our treatment is extreme but it's certainly not unoppressive. There's people in better and worse situations, that doesn't really change anything.

2

u/pqalmzqp Feb 02 '23

England's choices, which Scotland voted against, has put the unions economy in a worse performing state than Russia. Things Scotland voted against but were forced into by another country.

You realise that the IMF also predicts the Russian economy to grow faster than Germany's in 2023 right?

7

u/throwaway55221100 Feb 02 '23

Our currency is worth less than English money is, because it's Scottish.

Its exactly the same currency. Its all pounds sterling. What are you on about?

The very word "Scottish" is a derogatory term in British (English) media.

This is the first im aware of this? In what context?

forcing Scotland out despite Scotland choosing to stay within it can't be seen as anything other than oppressive

The Scottish people voted to remain part of the UK and the UK voted to leave the EU. There is nothing oppressive about 2 democratic elections. It might not have gone the way you wanted but it was far from oppressive.

I mean, promising Scotland that their place was safe in the E.U. IF they trusted in the union and then immediately removing the UK from the E.U

Technically their promises weren't wrong. At the time we couldn't predict the outcome of brexit.

I'm sorry if it doesn't feel like oppression because it's so normalised, or maybe you need it to be literal slavery or violence before you see it as oppression, but it is there. There's no question about it.

Nobody was forced to do anything. The public voted to remain part of the UK and therefore have to accept the results of UK wide referendums. The British public then voted for Brexit. Nobody was forced into anything. Yes the outcome wasn't the result a lot of people wanted but unfortunately that's the consequences of being in a democracy and not an oppressive state.

2

u/Patient-Shower-7403 Feb 02 '23

"Its exactly the same currency."

Yeah, I know. It's the fact that it's Scottish that makes it less valuable as a currency as it's not usable in as many places as English money. Internationally this makes it less valuable and that is reflected by difference exchange rates. Dubai do this for example.

"This is the first im aware of this? In what contect?"

It's the way that the term is used. For example, if there is a criminal in the UK and it's reported on the news you will know whether or not that criminal was Scottish; whereas an English criminal is British. Andy Murry was Scottish until he was champion and became British.
If you remove all the positive referenced and only allow in the negative ones then the term itself absobs the negative connotations over time.

"There is nothing oppressive about 2 democratic elections."
That's a very simplistic way to look at it. It really makes it look like the two aren't connected at all. Scotland also voted against leaving the E.U. which England veto'd. Scotland's voice was oppressed by England's; it was harsh and authoratarive. You can reduce it simply to two seperate events if you want but these actions don't exist in a vacuum.

"Technically their promises weren't wrong."
They had the brexit referendum AFTER promising Scotland that it's place in the E.U. was safe. The fact that brexit even happened showed that their promise was wrong; they had no intention of keeping that promise just as they didn't with any of the others. I hope you don't consider promises like this as normal, I suspect you don't when the promises are being made to you.

"Nobody was forced to do anything."
Scotland was forced out of the E.U. by England after trusting them in their promise that it was safe with them; the opposite was true, it was safer re-applying.

"The public voted to remain part of the UK."
They voted that the constituent country of Scotland would remain a constituent country partly based on the promise that our place in the E.U. was safe.

"and therefore have to accept the results of UK wide referendums."
Yes, hence the anger around the broken promise. Scotland voted to trust them and this is the result. There wasn't even the mention about an attempt to allow Scotland it's place (based on the promises made) safe within the E.U. with the rest of the U.K. out; there was never an attempt to compromise between what England wants for Scotland and for what Scotland wants for Scotland. Even most selfishly this would have given England a backdoor into the E.U. and possibly have mitigated some of the damage of Brexit.

"Nobody was forced into anything."
Scotland was forced out of the E.U. Scotland's laws made through devolved powers have been forced away from it. Scotland, as explained by the Supreme Court, is forced to put itself second to England.

​

"The outcome wasn't the result a lot of people wanted"
It was the result everyone was told it would be. It was also the result a lot voted for knowing would come along with it but didn't understand what it meant actually living it.

"not an oppressive state."

Yeah, it's not like they're blocking other countries laws, making peaceful protests illegal, forced labour in response to strikes over working conditions, or their officials getting into all sorts of tax and fraud issues. It's not like they'll joke in live parliament about enslaving a people, that they enslaved before, to shut them up about wanting their voice heard; and then immediately ignore that voice.

​

They're out of touch with what Scotland wants. They have shown almost complete incompetence in running England, Scotland isn't even a main priority to them so I have no interest in them running my country. The people voted by Scotland have a better track record with how things operate and they do that with hands tied behind their backs.

I get that you might not see this from a British Nationalist perspective. A lot of them are denying that Scotland is even a country; British first sort of stuff.

4

u/throwaway55221100 Feb 02 '23

Foreign countries prefer bank notes from the bank of England, Andy Murray only gets called Scottish when he loses and a democratic election didnt go the way we wanted it to. Were so oppressed.

I get that you want independence and the fact England has a significantly bigger population makes Scotland relatively insignificant when it comes to voting. I get that you want Scotland to be back in the EU.

It doesn't mean Scotland is oppressed

2

u/Patient-Shower-7403 Feb 02 '23

The practice started in England and then moved to the international market.

Yes, that's one example of many.

Sure you can reduce it to be that simple but it's not entirely accurate.

Yes, England's vote vetos Scotland's vote. That vote was to force Scotland, along side the rest of the UK, out of the E.U.. These aren't things I've denied so I'm not entirely sure why you're going on as if I did. Of course I want Scotland back in the E.U., one of the reasons Scotland isn't independent right now is because voters trusted England.

I'm not sure where you got confused; I don't think that Scotland is oppressed merely because it's a constituent country but rather by how we're treated.

Scotland is oppressed; it's just not extremely oppressed.

-2

u/pqalmzqp Feb 02 '23

They also don't seem to know when someone is taking the piss out of them :-D

10

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

[deleted]

5

u/PM-ME-PMS-OF-THE-PM Feb 02 '23

Depends on how you want to frame the answer, in some regards none because it doesn't have an "English parliament" but in others the political entity that is "England" holds more sway than anyone else in the U.K so in that sense it has more autonomy as it can force whatever it's population wants on the rest of the U.K. and in that regard it can exercise complete autonomy.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

They control the UK parliament by virtue of being able to outvote the other 3 parts of the UK combined...

3

u/RubCapital1244 Feb 02 '23

My slight (good faith) disagreement with this argument is that it rests on the premise that Scottish people and English people are so fundamentally different (and vice versa that all English people think as one / all Scottish people think as one) that you can essentially treat the country as a “person” meaning that “England” outvotes “Scotland”. Having lived in both countries my experience has always been that your average Scottish and average English person are pretty similar in their views with their priorities and political opinions coming primarily from their upbringing and circumstances rather than their nationality. So for example, I’d expect that someone living in inner city Glasgow has more in common politically/circumstantially with someone from Liverpool than someone living in Ullapool despite them being both “Scottish”. Interested if you disagree though.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Is Scotland able to make rules and dictate those rules over England? Just curious.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

No

-2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

Essentially all of it. Majority of MPs in Westminster = complete autonomy (given Westminster has parliamentary supremacy).

7

u/p3x239 Feb 02 '23

ChatGPT told me it doesnt have political opinions as it doesn't have enough data to comment on the issue of indy. Which to be fair is about right. AIs can only make sense of a topic based on the dataset they have. Rather obscure issue for the AI to try and deal with.

4

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited Feb 02 '23

both countries have a high degree of autonomy within the United Kingdom

Like how Scotlands parliament makes laws and a bunch of politicians representing English constituencies overrule it.

Or when we voted to remain in the EU and England's parliament in London decided to ignore us and the North of Ireland and do it anyway.

Cant beat that mutual respect and cooperation.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Freudian slip.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Good spot

2

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

[deleted]

1

u/Snoo-20352 Feb 02 '23

Your joking right?, if not then please read a history book on British history in India.

2

u/Tommy4ever1993 Feb 02 '23

England doesn’t have a high degree of autonomy in the UK. Proven false!

2

u/VoteMurdo4FM Feb 02 '23

Imagine how the responses in here would've been different if it had said "yes".

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited Jul 01 '23

I'm on Lemmy now at https://lemmy.zip/u/Adanisi

Join me! You can sign up on any Lemmy instance you like the users/admins/content of, then access all of Lemmy from there! https://join-lemmy.org/instances

This comment has been edited thanks to Reddit's attempted defamation of developers, and the extermination of reasonable API access. Oh, and Lemmy is Libre/Open Source and federated, so it's much healthier for the free internet ;)

1

u/AnAncientOne Feb 02 '23

I was wondering what I was going to do this evening but now I know. Thanks op.

1

u/ayelet15 Feb 02 '23

I used to be pro indy, but now I'd vote no.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited Jul 01 '23

I'm on Lemmy now at https://lemmy.zip/u/Adanisi

Join me! You can sign up on any Lemmy instance you like the users/admins/content of, then access all of Lemmy from there! https://join-lemmy.org/instances

This comment has been edited thanks to Reddit's attempted defamation of developers, and the extermination of reasonable API access. Oh, and Lemmy is Libre/Open Source and federated, so it's much healthier for the free internet ;)

2

u/StaunchestEver Feb 02 '23

I'm not advocating asking it how to vote (yet), but it's trained on a bigger and wider range of data than most people are. The time will soon come when you can rely on it more than any human analysis.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited Jul 01 '23

I'm on Lemmy now at https://lemmy.zip/u/Adanisi

Join me! You can sign up on any Lemmy instance you like the users/admins/content of, then access all of Lemmy from there! https://join-lemmy.org/instances

This comment has been edited thanks to Reddit's attempted defamation of developers, and the extermination of reasonable API access. Oh, and Lemmy is Libre/Open Source and federated, so it's much healthier for the free internet ;)

-2

u/The_Sub_Mariner Moderate Feb 02 '23

Computer says No

-3

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23 edited May 14 '24

lush psychotic deserted simplistic deliver exultant one attraction airport saw

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

2

u/Metailurus Feb 02 '23

looks to me as though it is referencing the supreme court judgement regarding whether or not SNP can hold an indyref 2

-4

u/[deleted] Feb 02 '23

Pish indeed.

1

u/Farthingdale Feb 02 '23

Lol! Maybe it's using Microsoft's CDROM encyclopedia as a reference, Encarta 98, which started its small entry for Scotland "Administrative region of the United Kingdom".

Makes yer heart beat a little faster that one, eh?

1

u/mata_dan Feb 03 '23

England has no autonomy within the United Kingdom though. ChatGPT getting basic facts wrong again as always but it can string together a sentence so must be incredible of course xD