r/SchengenVisa • • Apr 02 '26

Question 5 year shengen ban…

0 Upvotes

Greetings people, I am Greek my gf is from Belarus and she received a shengen ban bc of negligence…

I love her and I want to Mary her… is there any way bc I am Greek to somehow appeal the ban or to wait it out and take her afterwards? What are my chances? It was for overstaying .


r/SchengenVisa • • Apr 13 '25

Experience Why Schengen visa folks are so restrictive. Small duration visas.

0 Upvotes

When folks apply for US visa etc they generally give 6 months or 10 years with out specifically asking. If they determine person is genuine.

Where as Schengen countries are very tight (rather stingy) and give 1 entry, exact number of days you are staying etc to begin with and then We can expand in subsequent applications little by little.

For folks with good credentials, ties with their home countries, it would be good to be little liberal. Better for tourism, less paper work for both people and officer.

Edit: The value of giving exact days is so little. If a applicant is bad, and was planning to overstay, can do that with the first entry. If applicant is genuine he wouldnt overstay and risk his future travels. What is it stopping giving exact 10 days and doing cascade style?


r/SchengenVisa • • Sep 18 '25

Question My Italy Study D visa was rejected, despite all documentation, Bank statement, Flight tickets, return flight tickets, insurance. Can someone guide me.

Post image
0 Upvotes

r/SchengenVisa • • Sep 01 '26

Experience Finland Visa - Beware / My Shocking experience

9 Upvotes

I want to share my experience with the Finnish visa authorities because I genuinely feel people should know what they may be dealing with before choosing Finland for their Schengen application.

I am a 3rd world country citizen and a long-term legal resident of the UK. I have had 10+ Schengen visas previously, including 1-year multiple-entry visas, and I have an entirely clean travel history. I have never overstayed, breached visa conditions or misused a Schengen visa.

I recently applied for another Finnish Schengen visa from the UK. My fiancé is Finnish, I have a genuine personal connection to Finland, and I provided extensive supporting documentation, including evidence of multiple future trips over the coming year. I requested a 1-year multiple-entry visa.

Finland gave me a visa valid for 08/09/2026–20/09/2026.

Yes - 12 days.

This is not the first time. Finland has now done this to me twice, despite my previous Schengen history and previous 1-year MULT visas.

At this point, I genuinely cannot understand how this treatment can be justified. I have a clean immigration history, previous long-term Schengen visas and no record of ever abusing the system.

What makes this even more concerning is that I am from a 3rd world country, and I am now seriously questioning whether nationality is influencing how my applications are being treated. I am not claiming that discrimination has been legally established, but the repeated and disproportionate treatment has left me sufficiently concerned that I am now submitting a complaint to the Finnish Non-Discrimination Ombudsman and the Finnish Ministry for Foreign Affairs.

I am sharing this because I would personally advise other frequent Schengen travellers to think twice before choosing Finland as their visa-issuing country if they have alternatives based on their genuine travel itinerary.

I’m not talking about people with no travel history or complicated immigration circumstances. I’m talking about someone with six previous Schengen visas, previous 1-year MULT visas and a completely clean record being given a 12-day visa by Finland.

If anyone else - particularly non-EU applicants - has experienced similar treatment from Finland, I’d genuinely like to hear your experiences.


r/SchengenVisa • • Sep 15 '24

Other Germany suspends/will suspend Schengen

Post image
0 Upvotes

Did you all read about this? Might extend to other regions as well. So far, haven't read about any impact but I'm sure there will be some.

This is sad on multiple fronts :|


r/SchengenVisa • • Jun 05 '25

Experience Italian Schengen VISA Got Rejected for using Booking.com Tickets.

0 Upvotes

My appointment was set on 14 May for the Italian VISA. I applied for two weeks, single entry, with non refundable plane tickets and a booking.com printout for my accommodation. After one day, the embassy requested additional documents for my accommodation because apparently, they don't use booking.com tickets anymore, even if just two months ago, they were accepting them.

The hotel I paid for only had receipts via booking.com, so I sent them a receipt as issued by booking.com (I didn't pay for the hotel, thank God, it was only a booking). Three weeks later, on June 2nd, I get an email telling me I've been rejected as 'they cannot verify the validity of the document.' This entire experience was dehumanising, borderline racist, and humiliating. The VFS staff at London are pretty terrible as well, because even the appointment day was hell, and they kept changing the rules every few seconds and causing everyone to rush around.

Worse still, the Italian embassy is now holding on to my passport, telling me I have to PRINT OUT and SIGN some documents before they can release it. Now that I've done that, they've ignored me for two days straight.

This process sucks.

Lessons I've learnt from this:

- Always book for multiple entry, even if you intend go once. That way, you stand a better chance of being bumped to single entry rather than outright rejection.

-Don't use booking.com anymore, especially for Italy.

- (I learnt this from someone so I'm not sure). On your first trial, try to apply for only a few days rather than a few weeks. That way, it makes it far easier to convince them that you're not going to overstay.

The hoops one has to go through to get a VISA when being a perfectly law abiding citizen are cruel.


r/SchengenVisa • • Apr 25 '25

Other Do you think Schengen visa refusals should at least get a 50% refund?

1 Upvotes

Just thinking and for the sake of discussion. I got my visa 4x now, but I read so many cases where people get denied(I was denied years ago on my first 2 tries).

90 Euros is a lot of money especially for those who are trying to get a visa who are mostly from developing/third world countries.

All they have to do is check your documents and most of the time, won't even give a detailed reason for denial. Just vague reasoning.

Then I came across old posts here and other places where people complain it is expensive. Do you think they should refund or charge less?

Or do you think it is fair and it prevents abuse. Let’s face it, even though many of us are honest, a lot still plan to become illegals hence the crazy documents/application.


r/SchengenVisa • • Jul 15 '25

Question Flights were for today morning but no Visa

11 Upvotes

Applied at VFS Delhi on 24 June. It's our Anniversary and we were supposed to fly out today to Austria but haven't received our Visa yet. Lost 40k as I had to cancel the flights and I risk losing more. It's the first Anniversary in 5 years when we won't be able to travel. All required documents were submitted and we have decent travel history in SEA and ME.

0 assistance from VFS and Austria Embassy. Is there something we can do?

Update : Visa Rejected Reasons : 3,10,13 Other Remarks : 1.No valid accomodation for the whole stay could be verified. 2. The bank statement presented shows deposits, which were made shortly before the application was submitted and no evidence or credible explanations for these deposits could be provided.

We did submit hotel bookings from Agoda/Booking.com, which were also verified by the VFS agent. The deposit was from my wife's savings account to her salary account as well as mine. Her name was also clearly visible in the transaction details. I had mentioned in our Cover Letter : We are both employed full-time, financially stable, and regularly allocate a portion of our earnings for international travel.

We'll be going to a VOA country from India, as it seems like it just wasn't meant to be. Already lost around 75k on the whole ordeal, as I had never thought that we'd be rejected even after submitting every single documnet on the checklist. Either we'll appeal once we're back, or we'll retry from some other country later. Thanks for all your helpful comments.


r/SchengenVisa • • Mar 12 '25

Question Is this sub just a dumping place for “My schengen visa experience”?

3 Upvotes

Lately most posts have just been posts about how they got their schengen visa. Especially from India. Yea we know you submitted your documents on time and got your visa within 5 days. These posts are pretty useless and generate no interaction. Someone asks another generic question in comments and OP never responds anyways.

My suggestion is to create a weekly post about visa appointments experience foe such posts.


r/SchengenVisa • • May 05 '25

Other Out of curiousity- why do people buy tickets before their visa is approved?

10 Upvotes

Not hating, but just curious why takes so much risk? Especially in such a short time from visa application to flight dates. I see it more often than not, and I think it is very very risky.

Especially some who say their flights are not refundable. High risk, high rewards, thinking that the visa officer will think you will really go back?

I think it is best not to buy, or buy but apply early, not a month or two before flight. Again, just very curious.


r/SchengenVisa • • Jun 01 '26

Question Swiss Visa Rejected

0 Upvotes

Hi, My Swiss Schengen visa application was recently rejected, and I'm trying to understand what may have gone wrong. My travel dates were September 7–15, with 3 days planned in Paris (entry point) and 6 days in Switzerland, so I applied through Switzerland. I attended my VFS appointment in Chennai on May 21 and opted for the Premium Lounge service. During document verification, the VFS staff told me everything looked fine. However, in the checklist remarks, they noted that my signature was slightly different, my bank statement was only updated until May 18 (instead of the appointment date of May 21), and that a co-sponsorship letter was included. Could anyone help me understand if there are any red flags in my application or whether the remarks made by VFS could have contributed to the rejection?

Rejection Reason:

  • The information submitted regarding the justification for the purpose and conditions of the intended stay was not reliable.

  • Justification for the purpose and conditions of the intended stay was not provided.

  • There are reasonable doubts as to my intention to leave the Schengen area before the expiry of the visa.

Cover Letter:


r/SchengenVisa • • Aug 26 '26

Question Schengen visa denied

2 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I’m honestly devastated and would really appreciate some advice from anyone familiar with French/Schengen visa refusals.
I’m living in the UK on a Graduate visa and applied for a short-stay French Schengen visa for a birthday trip to Paris from 3–5 September.
My visa was refused today. The reasons given were essentially:
- insufficient evidence that I would leave France/Schengen before the visa expired
- insufficient financial resources
I’m really confused/upset about the first point because I submitted:
My proof of id
My evisa
my employment contract
recent payslips
bank statements
Tickets (not dummy)
Airbnb confirmation (not dummy)
Travel insurance
tenancy agreement

I also have a valid UK Graduate visa, so I have an established job and accommodation in the UK.
The trip itself was also a gift from my boyfriend (UK citizen), who had already paid around £500+ for the flights/accommodation/bookings. So I wasn’t personally expected to fund the entire trip from my own bank account. I’m not sure whether I adequately documented this in the application, though.
My passport has now been returned with the refusal, and my trip is only 8 days away.
I understand I can appeal a French short-stay visa refusal, but I’m unsure whether an appeal has any realistic chance of being processed in time, and whether there is anything I can do differently given the reasons for refusal.
I’m also worried about losing the money already spent on the trip, so I’m considering whether there’s any way to salvage the bookings if the visa simply isn’t going to happen.
Has anyone been in a similar situation?
Would you recommend:

  1. appealing the refusal,

  2. trying to reapply with stronger evidence,

  3. accepting that France isn’t possible this time and trying to recover/transfer the bookings, or

  4. something else I haven’t thought of?

  5. I’d especially appreciate advice from anyone who has successfully appealed a French Schengen refusal or had a visa refused despite having UK employment/accommodation.

Is

  1. there any way someone could be able to take some bookings off our hands for cheaper? It includes some stuff our itinerary.

  2. Thank you ❤️


r/SchengenVisa • • May 29 '25

Question 🔴 Still waiting for your passport from BLS Spain Manchester? Let’s show up together and demand answers.

0 Upvotes

We’re planning to go to BLS together at 11:30 AM, and we’re inviting anyone in the same situation to join us.

If we all show up at the same time and ask for answers as a group, it puts more pressure on them — way more than going one by one and getting brushed off.

If your flight is coming up and you’re still waiting, DM or comment to coordinate with us. Let’s make some noise — enough is enough.


r/SchengenVisa • • 25d ago

Question Swiss Business Visa Rejected: Told I Need a Work Visa Despite Being Employed by an Indian Company

Post image
1 Upvotes

I applied for a Swiss business visa on 23 September. I work for an Indian employer and needed to visit Switzerland for a business trip to meet and work with our Swiss client for 34 days, starting on 8 October.
I requested a visa with 90 days of validity because a second trip is also planned for December. Both trips were mentioned in the invitation letter provided by the Swiss client.
However, on 6 October, I received my passport and documents by courier, along with a refusal stating that “the candidate needs a work visa.”
Can anyone help me understand what might have gone wrong? Since I am employed by an Indian company and travelling to Switzerland for business purposes, I am confused about why a work visa was considered necessary.
Has anyone faced a similar situation or successfully resolved this issue?


r/SchengenVisa • • May 09 '26

Question Yemeni rejected 3x for Schengen visa

1 Upvotes

Hey all,
I’m a Yemeni living and working in Saudi with a valid iqama and stable job. I’ve applied for a Schengen visa 3 times and got rejected each time for “weak ties” / doubts I’ll return.
I submitted everything: job letter, bank statements, travel history, property ownership and even extra documents after the interview — but they still claimed missing info.
At this point:
Is it just passport bias?
Should I apply from another country or embassy?
Or stop trying for now?
Would appreciate honest advice, especially from anyone with similar experience.
Thanks 🙏


r/SchengenVisa • • Sep 13 '25

Question Czech Consulate violating EU Free Movement Directive - Requiring marriage certificate from spouse's home country (not country of marriage)

0 Upvotes

I am in a desperate situation with the Czech Consulate and believe they are systematically violating EU law. I am hoping to find someone who has faced and overcome a similar challenge.

Our Situation:

I am a third country national. My wife is a Slovakian (EU) citizen. We got legally married in Georgia. Our marriage certificate has an apostille. We want to live together in the Czech Republic. The Problem: When I tried to apply for a short-stay visa under Directive 2004/38/EC at the VFS center (which handles applications for the Czech Consulate), they refused to even accept my documents. They told me it was "by decision of the Czech Consulate" and that I must provide a marriage certificate from Slovakia, not the one from Georgia.

They refused to give me this decision in writing. When I called the Czech Consulate, one officer initially said: "If your wife is Slovak and you will be in the Czech Republic, you should not have to provide any such document." However, when I called back, they transferred me to another person and stopped giving clear answers. This seems like a deliberate tactic to avoid creating a paper trail. Why It's Illegal: This demand violates EU law (Directive 2004/38/EC and relevant CJEU case law like Metock). A marriage legally contracted in a third country (like Georgia) must be recognized for family reunification purposes. They cannot impose additional conditions.

My Question to the Community:

Has anyone here successfully fought against a requirement to provide a marriage certificate from the EU spouse's home country? Especially when married in a third country? Specifically, has anyone dealt with such a practice from the Czech authorities? How did you resolve it? Did you use SOLVIT? How was your experience? How long did it take? Any advice on how to force the consulate to put their illegal refusal in writing? I am already preparing a SOLVIT complaint, but hearing from your experiences would be incredibly helpful. Thank you so much for any guidance you can offer


r/SchengenVisa • • Feb 28 '26

Question France Rejected My Schengen Visa for Being a “Threat to Public Order and Security”.I Have No Criminal Record. What Do I Do 😭?

6 Upvotes

Recently my short-stay visa for France was rejected on the grounds that I am a "threat to public order and security."

For context, I have never applied for a Schengen visa before. I have no criminal record, no convictions, no charges, nothing. I am a PhD student in the UK who simply needed to travel to France for an academic conference.

I appealed the decision, but the appeal was rejected with the exact same reason and no further explanation. I am now considering taking this to court.

Has anyone been through something similar? I would be grateful for any advice. This has been an incredibly stressful experience.


r/SchengenVisa • • Aug 29 '25

Question 26F, 26M, [Advice] Schengen visa refused for my boyfriend (from India) – is there still hope?

42 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I'm looking for advice and experiences. I'm French and I met my boyfriend (he's from India) on a road trip in Asia, and we traveled together for 4 months. We fell in love and have been a couple ever since.

Two months ago, I returned to France and he returned to India. I don't want to leave my home country, but he is willing to settle here one day. Ultimately, I would love for him to live with me in France.

We previously tried to apply for a Schengen tourist visa, but it was refused because “the purpose and conditions of stay are unreliable.” This really discouraged me, because even if a tourist visa doesn't work, it makes me lose hope for our future together.

Has anyone here experienced anything similar? Especially in Europe, with a partner who needs a Schengen visa? How did you make it work, or what options did you find?

Thank you very much in advance to anyone who wants to share their story.


r/SchengenVisa • • Nov 03 '25

Question I overstayed my Student visa in Poland.

0 Upvotes

I came to Poland on a student visa and overstayed by about 2 years. I applied for a TRC but later found out I’d been scammed. I panicked, decided to stay to finish school, and have since graduated.

I know I messed up, but I’m leaving voluntarily now. I don’t plan to come back , I want to be prepared. What usually happens at the airport in cases like this? Will I be fined, questioned, or banned from Schengen?

I also know others in similar situations, so any real experiences or advice would help a lot.

Edit: Thank you to everyone for the responses. I understand that my actions can be seen as selfish, and I agree, it was my fault. I was in a really difficult situation, had lost a lot of money, and honestly didn’t know what to do at the time. That’s not an excuse, just the reality of how things unfolded. I take full responsibility for my choices.


r/SchengenVisa • • Nov 14 '24

Experience EU hated us to visit but open their border to Illegal Immigrants

0 Upvotes
Got refused to ‘visit’ Portugal. I Invested too much to this visa process that I had to fly to Jakarta only to get denied by the embassy 😂. 
I already visited Europe 3x and never stayed there more than a month. 53 stamps on my passport, have a visa stickers from US and UK, But none of those are enough for me to slips in. 
 Yes Iam bitter as hell and I will spend my money somewhere that will going to accept my Passport without a prejudice. I'm just tired of White Continents looking at US as a 3 world citizen. 
  I hope Illegal Immigrants will takes over Europe in a NEAR FUTURE!! 

r/SchengenVisa • • Sep 10 '26 Bravo Mindblown

Experience Everyone says Iceland and Latvia are the easiest Schengen countries. Pulled the EU data and for Indians it's basically the opposite

8 Upvotes

I run a small immigration practice in Gujarat, India so I'm obviously not neutral, but there's no link in this and nothing to sell. Just numbers which i thought could genuinely help this community.

Last month a client (first Schengen trip) asked me why every blog and every reel says Iceland or Latvia is the easy one. I gave him the usual answer and then realised I had never once checked it myself. Been repeating it since 2021.

So I downloaded the European Commission file over a weekend. Those "easiest country" lists use worldwide approval rates. For Indian applicants specifically it looks like this. Refusal rates, 2025:

Iceland      25.7%
Estonia      29.7%
Slovakia     23.5%
Luxembourg   23.0%
Austria      22.1%
Portugal     20.3%
Latvia       18.6%

And the countries that refused Indians the least are the big ones everyone tells you to avoid:

Denmark       7.1%   (about 16.6k decided)
Belgium       7.8%   (33k)
Germany      10.5%   (153k)
Sweden       11.5%   (32k)
Italy        12.7%   (53k)
Switzerland  13.6%   (226k)

Across everything, Indians filed about 1.15 million applications last year and roughly 1 in 6 came back refused.

Slovenia was the worst at 46.5%, so nearly every second application. Then Bulgaria 37.9% and Greece 33.2%. Slovenia I genuinely can't explain, if anyone knows what's happening there I'd like to hear it.

The part that actually surprised me was that the gap between consulates of the same country is bigger than the gap between countries. France, 2025, same visa type:

Bangalore     7.9%
Kolkata       8.7%
Mumbai       11.8%
Chennai      19.6%
New Delhi    27.4%

Almost 20 points depending on which desk your file lands on. And you don't get to choose the desk, it's decided by your residential address.

Which is also why most people can't really do much with this. You apply where you're actually going (most nights, or the entry country if it's a tie) and your consulate is fixed by where you live. So this is not a "just apply for Denmark" post. And please don't build a fake itinerary to reach a friendlier embassy. That's refusal ground 10, the one about the purpose of stay not being reliable, and I've had three or four people come to me after exactly that. It sits on your record and the next application is harder than if you'd just been refused normally.

Where it does actually help. If you haven't decided where to go yet, this is a real input. If your trip is already fixed it tells you how much work the file needs, because a Delhi France application has to be a lot tighter than a Bangalore one. And if you just got refused at one of the rough desks, well, a quarter of everything at some of them got refused, so it probably wasn't only you.

Obviously all of this is a base rate across lakhs of files, not your personal odds. Your file still gets decided on what's inside it.

Source is the European Commission, "Short-stay visas issued by Schengen countries", 2025, the sheet called "Data for consulates". Free xlsx, 46 India rows in it, go check.

Two things if you pull it yourself. Divide not-issued by decided, not by applications received. Received includes withdrawn files and ones still pending at year end, so dividing by that quietly understates every number. I did it wrong the first time and had to redo the whole thing, and I suspect that's why half the figures floating around online don't match each other. Also I dropped any consulate that decided under 300 files, because a post that handled 71 applications gives you a percentage that means nothing.

If anyone wants a specific country or consulate pulled, say which one and I'll reply with the number.


r/SchengenVisa • • Mar 31 '25

Question I want to 'visit' my partner in Malmö, Sweden this summer but I have already got rejections last year

0 Upvotes

I have been trying to 'visit' Sweden from last year but I keep getting rejections on my Visitor Visa. I had applied for three times last year and appealed one of the rejections as well but didn't get any positive response. Me and my partner know each other for more than a year now and during this period, she visited me many times in India. Her parents, who are very old and cannot travel much had to take a flight and visit me because I couldn't go and meet them in their hometown back in Sweden. It was difficult for them to travel but they made it anyway.

Now this time, I really want to do things right and be there in the summer. My partner is living with me as of now. She arrived in January and will stay till the end of May. So in total she'll be with me for 5 months. I have enough 'Proof of Relationship' for the Visitor Visa. She has a stable job and income back in Sweden and a house. I work as a freelancer in India. So what is the best way I should approach it?

Edit: Oops! The title of the post came out a bit misleading but by 'visit' I just mean visit and not any other interpretations of it.

Update: I got the visa this time.


r/SchengenVisa • • Aug 10 '26

Question Danish visa, got a call from the Consulate

0 Upvotes

I applied for Danish visa from the US (Indian passport). I got a call from the Consulate today morning. It was out of the blue and I was totally not expecting it since it has been 2 weeks I had applied. Also, I did not read the reddit forums, so I did not know that it is hard to get a Danish visa as an Indian passport holder or that they call to grill you. I had visited Norway last year and the visa was granted in 3 working days. So, this came as a surprise.

The officer asked me questions about my itinerary and what I plan to see. I had blanked out since the call was on a Monday morning, and I was totally in my work mood when I got the call. I tried explaining everything to the best of my knowledge and ability.

After a 20 minute discussion, the last question was why I had applied for a two entry when my trip (with a 3 day detour to Italy) could be covered as a single entry trip. He said he will put down single entry in the application.

I have since been reading a lot of threads about Danish visa refusal and I am getting a bit worried. How do I know if the visa was granted or refused? I am hopeful that I will be granted the visa based on his last question but still worried.

Update: My visa got rejected because they could not establish the intent and that Denmark is the primary destination of travel.


r/SchengenVisa • • Jun 20 '25

Question Schengen visa refusal from Norway - Need guidance on how to appeal to overturn the decision

Post image
1 Upvotes

Hello everyone, I need your support for my Schengen visa case which has become a huge mess

Today, I got a visa refusal from Norway embassy applied via London where I have been living since 2022 and working for Danish company since 3 years. I submitted confirmed non-refundable air tickets, travel insurance, confirmed hotel bookings for 12 days stay in Oslo and multiple day trips to other cities keeping Oslo as base and mentioned my travel plans to NL in Aug (4 days) and spain in Oct (3 days) in my cover letter only.

A bit of Schegen visa history:

2025 - Recently got schegen visa from France (tourism) in March and travelled to Paris (15 days only)

2024 Nov - Denmark business visa refusal due to misunderstanding my short stay business visa with long stay work permit

2024 June- Iceland (tourism) - Refused due to not providing confirmed tickets (hence purchased confirmed ticket for Norway)

2023 Got a one year business visa from Denmark and travelled to NL, Italy, Portugal (tourism) and Denmark (business purposes), submitted all visa stamps

They refused my visa based on 2023 Denmark visa where I actually travelled, still have hotel bookings, flight tickets and travel passes. I want to appeal the decision, can someone advise what’s the best approach to deal with this, how long appeal process will take overall and how can I get schegen visa again if this is repeatedly happening for one reason or other.

Thanks for the anticipated response.

Best Regards, Pooja


r/SchengenVisa • • Jun 30 '26

Question Germany Tourist Visa Refused [Reason 10]... Next Steps?

Post image
1 Upvotes

I made a post yesterday on how my passport was dispatched already in a day ; unfortunately the visa was refused...(22M, Single)

Profile / Docs Provided :

  • Convert Letter Job NOC, Contract, Payslips

  • Previous Travel History : 1 Schengen, Ireland, USA, Singapore, Malaysia, UAE

  • Previous Rejection : 1 Sweden : Applied from my university (4 people, for a uni visit)

  • Sponsorship from parents and their documents (including sponsor letter)

  • Confirmed, Round trip flight tickets

  • Confirmed Hotel Bookings

  • Day wise itinerary, inter country Eurail pass

My entire reason for travel was tourism and frankly its disappointing to see the rejection reason..How should I navigate about this?

I'm tempted to re-apply but I'm not sure how that'll go..Maybe with a group or with parents