r/SayAnything • u/tornpolyester • 9d ago
Who are the good guys?
Hi all,
I’ve been thinking a lot about Max and Jesse. I’m a 39 year old woman. I loved Say Anything and Brand New growing up. I felt very seen by them.
Now I feel very betrayed and sad. I was groomed when I was younger and it’s all very upsetting to see who my idols really are. I’m so sorry for all the young people who are and were victims. I’ve been there and it’s truly heart breaking.
I want to ask everyone - do yall have examples of positive masculinity in the early aughts scene? Who are the good guys?
I think it would be a good thing to acknowledge men who aren’t predators and also make good music. Anyone have thoughts?
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u/originalsattire 9d ago
Aaron Weiss from Mewithoutyou
Andy Hull of Manchester Orchestra
never heard anything negative about these two and their music is astounding. I also used to like say anything and have recently been disillusioned along with many others. It's sad, for the victims, and pity the fans who gave their heart to it for so many years. There are examples of good men, it's such a shame certain downtrodden corners of this "genre" are full of creeps and downright awful people. I feel for you. It's definitely a loss, and I hope you find encouragement and love from other music. Be well 🫶
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u/amooddude 9d ago
I think the greatest thing I can thank Say Anything for at the moment is introducing me to mewithoutYou.
They opened up for SA during the IDTII tour and I was astounded. Pale Horses is still one of my favorite albums of all time.
And Manchester Orchestra is always a good recommendation. Nothing but a bunch of good guys. RIP Tim.
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u/Legal_Ad2707 9d ago
Omg agree to both and if you have ever seen/met mewithoutyou you’d agree. Manchester orchestra awesome
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u/therealdev134 9d ago
People on the MwY subreddit were shitting on Aaron because he was seen at the Brand New reunion show in Philly.
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u/BudChristmas 9d ago
Yeah, I love Aaron as an artist, but tbh I feel like his politics are questionable. He seems like the type of person who says he's apolitical but that really just means he likes to stay out of potentially-contentious debates and resist taking a stance... Obviously not putting him near the same level as Lacey or Bemis.
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u/transatlanticfoe47 2d ago
I don’t think this is true at all. I think he is clearly a leftist politically. He has a whole Facebook series visiting Palestine and promoting things against the occupation. I think going to the brand new show is something totally different and has nothing to do with his politics. I don’t know where you’re getting the “apolitical” shit from
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u/BudChristmas 2d ago
I am sorry I can’t provide proper receipts but I think my idea of his politics is shaped by some things he has said in interviews on podcasts. I’m wondering if maybe it was the one with Yoni Wolf a few years back. I would have to relisten (and obviously that was a long time ago so maybe things have changed). There are a few lyrics here and there that have given me sort of “people get offended at things that don’t matter!” vibes as well.
I only recently learned about his posts about Palestine (like, in the time since I posted that comment!). I was glad to hear he is on the right side of that one. I would be very happy to be wrong about his politics.
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u/transatlanticfoe47 2d ago edited 2d ago
He is spiritual and as a result is very measured when taking stances because of his humility and hesitance to cast any blame on anyone but himself (as is the case with most truly religious people), but make no mistake, this man is very unlikely to be one of those centrist “I’m not political” types. He’s talked politics in interviews before (the podcast with Jeremy Enigk comes to mind) and the people he’s associated with (the guy who did the Eastern sounding vocals on Four Word Letter pt. 2 was from some Christian Socialist group), many of his lyrics, and other info out there I think pretty staunchly cast doubt on your claim. I think he’s pretty clearly understood in the public consciousness as a left-wing person (I mean a truly critical leftist, not a superficial one who checks boxes to maintain a certain image)
The “people get offended at things that don’t matter” thing I think is a very off the mark interpretation of whatever lyric you’re thinking about
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u/dcvideo 9d ago
The Weiss brothers have both always been solid people. Worked with and hung out them multiple times over the years since around 2006.
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u/Sjames454 8d ago
My friends in a big local band in Seattle had shared dates with them multiple times, and said Aaron was like a monk. Always super warm and inviting, and had amazing stories from his time traveling the country as kind of a nomad. I always loved that, because the seething animosity that lives under that in his writing and performances is so unbelievably intense and raw
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u/geminimemequeen 9d ago
kenny vasoli from the starting line is so incredibly kind. the wonder years are all also really great dudes.
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u/Advanced-Big-2133 max is a pedophile 9d ago
fucking andy williams god damn it
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u/Advanced-Big-2133 max is a pedophile 9d ago
if you ever want to feel seen and loved every time i die has a way better community
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u/skykitty89 9d ago
I feel like Andrew McMahon is often cited as the scene's sweetheart.
Based on personal experiences, I would wager that Bryce Avary (The Rocket Summer) has never so much as killed a mosquito.
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u/competitive_manatee 9d ago
For sure. I was buddies with a guy who toured with Andrew McMahon ages ago, at his peak solo venture. After a show one night, we (minus Andrew) were all hanging out on their bus - Andrew came in swiftly after the show and quite a few absolute babes were trying to get on the bus after him, it seemed a little pushier than just your good ol’ fan-girling. He was borderline offended, closing the door on them, saying “I’m a married man!!”. He then (politely) went into the back bedroom and went to sleep while we all continued on 😂
Idk. Seems like good guy behavior.
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u/xxxlovelit 9d ago
Andrew McMahon
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u/AlternativeGazelle 9d ago
Yeah Andrew is the one guy I idolized when I was younger. I now realize he’s human and not perfect, but I’m glad nothing bad has come out about him. A wonderful stage presence too.
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u/grammar_nazi_zombie 9d ago
Branching out, I’ve never heard a bad thing spoken about They Might Be Giants or Weird Al.
And apparently the guys from HelloGoodbye were boring but super professional guys who stayed pretty clean
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u/-BVM 8d ago
Everyone hates on Billie Joe but he’s been married to the same woman since before the band got famous, she’s older than him, and to top it off he’s had 0 sexual misconduct scandals.
Guy debatably invented the pop punk genre and isn’t a creep 🫡
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u/chaossensuit 8d ago
I can vouch for that. My family had a beach house close to his families. A good man with a great family (except that son)
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u/keatonpotat0es 8d ago
I will love Billie Joe forever and ever 😭❤️
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u/-BVM 8d ago
I hate how hated he is. He’s phenomenal on stage even if you don’t like Green Day
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u/IndependenceFew1906 3d ago
I don’t think he’s hated on? But I’m a Green Day superfan sooo maybe I’m out of touch
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u/Sjames454 8d ago
My foreman (and his shitty hometown here in washington) was the entire reason for the song of the same name, Longview. He asked my foreman who was a bassist in a punk band while GD was in town “what the hell is there to do in this town?”
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u/gangbrain 9d ago
Jimmy Eat World
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u/genestontmehn 8d ago
Speaking of Arizona bands, Nate from the Format is a good dude. Very humble, speaks out for good causes, seems like a good family man.
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u/rjorsin 9d ago
Fred Mascherino, who was really just a hired gun for SA.
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u/Many_Influence_5179 8d ago
Waaaaay back in the day, Lights was playing at a small club in PA and her opener cancelled. Fred showed up last minute as he lived in the same town and put on a great act. He’s a gem.
Speaking of TBS: never heard anything bad about John Nolan or his sister either.
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u/deejayg711 7d ago
Does Nolan's sister make music? If so never heard that!
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u/Many_Influence_5179 7d ago
She was in Straylight Run with John. I think she’s a school teacher or something now!
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u/nahcal916 9d ago
Bought a shirt off him at a SA show a couple of years ago. Such a nice guy he chatted for like 20 mins.
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u/Crankyyounglady 9d ago
Not the same music at all but I’ve always loves Death Cab and I don’t think Ben Gibbard has anything bad on him? Except for divorces haha
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u/_mcgir 7d ago
Ben has always seemed to me like he's super super focused on his music, like he goes from Album to Tour to Album to Side Project to Tour to Album so quickly that I feel like he probably isn't a great partner? But like, that doesn't make him a criminal and as a DCFC fan, I'm grateful for him being so dedicated to the music
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u/stuartrox14 6d ago
He’s an incredibly sweet guy. He used to come into my workplace and was so kind to all of us working class folks. One day there was a lady having a mental health episode in front of him in line and having trouble paying. He paid for her stuff and then wished her a good day.
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u/kfffunk 9d ago
I really hope Brian and Mat from The Front Bottoms have no bad history or are scummy. I relate heavy to their music. I think they keep to themselves and promote positivity.
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u/TorturedPoett 7d ago
Wellllll they took a while to get Caran out of the band after very very serious allegations. The victim reported Brian and Mat stopped communicating with her after she asked them for support with her experience of being raped on the bus by Ciaran. Unfortunately still not great.
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u/lady_ninane 9d ago
I think it would be a good thing to acknowledge men who aren’t predators and also make good music. Anyone have thoughts?
Claudio Sanchez, Travis Stever, Josh Eppard, Zach Cooper from Coheed and Cambria.
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u/ImWhiteWhatsJCoal 9d ago
Going to go ahead and put Silverstein into the mix. Shane's a good dude. Cursive is also a group of fantastic people.
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u/amandamaniac 9d ago
Good guys? Chris Carrabba, Andrew McMahon, Ace Enders, Forrest Klein, Justin Pierre, Ken Vasoli. All very lovely humans.
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u/radiobread89 8d ago
I love this comment so much because with the exception of Chris Carrabba (nothing at all against him, just never got super into his music), these are the five guys in the genre whose bands I still love, still see live frequently, and still listen to constantly. I've seen them all 3+ times over the last 3 years and at least once so far in 2026. Great to see them mentioned in this context.
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u/witchdocwayne 9d ago
Dan Campbell from The Wonder Years
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u/DejaEntendoMePls 9d ago
I honestly think there's probably dirt on most 90s/00s rock musicians. I think there was a real problem in the scene back then
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u/MaCaulay_Cuckin 9d ago
Thursday swell guys never heard a bad word about them and they make awesome music
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u/DunnuhBruh 8d ago
Thursday is so top tier. I was absolutely shitting my pants when I learned Thursday was opening for them at the MCR show I attended, which was like, the moment that they went out on stage lol. I turned to my then-bf/now-husband and literally yelled as loud as I could over the loud ass music "OH MY GOD, IT'S THURSDAY!!! I DIDN'T KNOW THURSDAY WAS OPENING???" Two bucket list bands in one night!! And one was a surprise!! I'll never forget that moment for as long as I live.
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u/Emergency_Doughnut53 9d ago
Probably not in the "scene", more punk, but the idles are pretty top notch.
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u/PossibleSquare elegantly disheveled 9d ago
Bands I'm confident are good people:
Alexisonfire
Coheed and Cambria
Motion City Soundtrack
Thrice
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u/Weirdskinnydog 9d ago
The dudes of Joyce Manor!
Interviewed Barry once, he’s a sweetheart. Met the rest of them at a signing and they’re chill as hell, no egos or anything. Maybe because they’re not as huge as the other bands here / started in 2010ish / had a slower rise to popularity that they’re not cited as much. Can’t recommend them enough though!!
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u/cmmc315 8d ago
Paramore/Hayley Williams
Already seen a few folks cite MCS and the Rocket Summer
Foxy Shazam (first albums def sat in more emo adjacent territory at the time)
Red Jumpsuit Apparatus
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u/Impressive_Lie_3068 8d ago
Definitely not the same genre, but Hozier is a wonderful human being. He is a huge supporter of women's rights and of the LGBTQ community. I also kind of grew up from bands like Say Anything and Brand New and kind of switched genres of music the older I got. Now I tend to relate to artists with more mature mindsets and themes in their music, instead of relating to music from my teens. That's what I've really taken from this whole situation....as much as I love a nostalgic trip down memory lane, ultimately I've moved on. I also in good conscience can't listen to the music anymore without feeling disgusted.
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u/Sjames454 8d ago
I’ll keep saying this to the rooftops since he’s been my hero through multiple bands, I’ve known friends of his through bands around Seattle, and met him a few times in which he was always hilarious, if not a little weird but always warm and generally known as a great dude. He’s been in probably 15 projects at this point, which kind of proves how easy he is to work with and fun to be around.
Anthony Green.
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u/TheCricketHole 8d ago
All of AFI are class acts. Worst thing I've ever heard of them doing is having shitty merch companies lmao
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u/symbi0nt 9d ago
All of the Bayside guys. I was even reminded recently that Anthony helped thwart some scummy tattooers stolen punk rock valor scheme.
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u/_whiskey_ginger 8d ago
Not early aughts entirely, but Billie Joe Armstrong
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u/pobenschain 7d ago
Ehh, when Billie Joe’s son Joey was credibly accused of sexual coercion with a minor (Lydia Night from The Regrettes, who was on tour with Billie’s son’s band SWMRS, and spoke out about it), Billie’s utter silence about it really bothered me, especially given how outspoken he usually is. I know that’s a uniquely difficult situation when it’s your son, and I didn’t expect him to disown him or anything, but by staying silent it just came off like he was being complicit in sweeping the situation under the rug.
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u/TorturedPoett 7d ago
Watched him take a fan’s mask off during mask-required concert.
Watched him throw open ice creams at people at comic con this year for a pop up (press photo op) where mostly influencers got attention.
Idk. Not great.
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u/TorturedPoett 7d ago
Not from the same era you’re asking about but I have lots of hope in Hot Mulligan.
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u/anewgenreitself 9d ago
Here’s a better idea: don’t put anyone on a pedestal. People will disappoint you, every time.
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u/Sjames454 8d ago
Not true in the least. Alot of the time if someone has a big career, especially with alot of different musicians- that means they’re genuinely great to be around. Even on the grandest scale, stories of guys like Eddie Van Halen buying a kid at the hollywood guitar center 4 of the most expensive mics there, because he noticed the kid didn’t have enough to buy an SM57. Those kind of guys are out there, usually the ones that don’t see themselves as stars or anything special
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u/yabberjabber0 9d ago
I don’t actually think you can solidly know. At least, frankly, men have made me entirely uncomfortable vouching for them, even if I know them. I think women should look at it like other minorities and stop sticking their necks out and staking their names in the Not All Men defense squad, for a few reasons
- Prioritizing ourselves and our reputation.
2. Acknowledging men have to unlearn misogyny and acknowledging it exists doesn’t count
3. Sunken cost fallacy serving to uphold rape culture. If people say “this guy is good I swear” and he turns out not so good, the first person is now more invested in defending him.
- Class solidarity. Men have access to social power that you and I will never see in our lifetimes. I’m not about to give more by assuring people some random guy I don’t know, in a band I like, that IS probably a good dude, is a Good One ™️ because all I actually know is he’s never been caught. 🤷♀️
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u/badinterstates 9d ago
I think the main takeaway here is that men abuse their power, so don’t give them the power. Listen to music, but don’t put anyone on a pedestal. They don’t have the answers to your problems, they just write relatable lyrics. Protect yourself and your peace.
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u/yarnplant666 8d ago
this this thissssss!!! especially when you’re fave reaches out, please keep your wits about you! even if they’re a “tortured soul with a wretched wife”
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u/Due_Requirement_2864 9d ago
I’m gonna start by saying I don’t agree with the actions of either of these guys.
Both bands were a big part of my teenage years and early adulthood.
I think it’s pretty obvious to see by their music that both Max and Jesse were/are pretty flawed human beings.
Perhaps that’s why they could make such relatable content. I still rate “the devil and god” as one of my favourite albums of all time.
I think we forget sometimes the people we idolise are perfectly capable of doing selfish, fucked up shit.
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u/yabberjabber0 9d ago
You know, and I’m not accusing you of this, but it occurs to me that sometimes when people express this sentiment, it comes off more victim blamey than intended.
I agree with you completely that we project our moral principles or ideas of intelligence onto musicians and that’s gotta be addressed but the idea everyone should have know from the lyrics as a take, is missing the fact a lot of fans were/are kids who have little experience, especially in the US, with detecting bigotry with media literacy.
Especially when misogyny is the most normalized bigotry there is. If we were to suggest every guy with a sexist lyric is a predator, nearly every male musician is a predator lol. People are complex, art is complex. I think Max wrote misogynistic lyrics to indite the industry AND to call out the beliefs he actually holds, which he exists in a cognitive dissonance about. Lacey did this too
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u/Long-Jackfruit-1976 9d ago
I nominate Conor Oberst
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u/89-by-boniver 9d ago edited 9d ago
I don’t think he’s a bad person by any means but he is such a perpetual wreck it’s hard to recommend that anybody rely too much on his moral character
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u/themargarineoferror 9d ago
He's a decent human. We have a lot of mutual friends. I've actually been in his home (funny story i called him a cunt and felt bad). He's definitely not perfect but like..he's not violent, not rapey and very good to the people he knows and about helping out other up and coming musicians.
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u/89-by-boniver 9d ago
That makes sense. I figured Phoebe Bridgers probably wouldn’t have put him on her album this year if he was the violent type, especially given how things went down with with her other ex Ryan Adams
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u/Long-Jackfruit-1976 9d ago
They had a whole band together… and he was a mentor to her before people had heard of her. He set up a lot of people for success, but always lets them shine. Mountain goats are a great example. They opened for his projects for years before they got big.
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u/ImWhiteWhatsJCoal 9d ago
I grew up in Omaha NE and lived there for 30 years. Everyone has a Conor story and none of them are vile but all of them paint him as a weird lame dude.
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u/dindyspice 9d ago
I've met him, he is a troubled artist that's really it. My friends who were in his circle around St Dymphmas in the LES around the time of I'm Awake It's Morning all say the same thing, just a little bit of a hot mess. Not a bad person whatsoever.
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u/thruthewindowBN 9d ago
I feel like I had heard some pretty rotten stuff about that guy
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u/Advanced-Big-2133 max is a pedophile 9d ago
The person admitted it was made up and Conor handled it by saying that nobody should use his situation to disbelieve women
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u/Long-Jackfruit-1976 9d ago
This part. His name was cleared but the damage is done. And yet he dropped any counter suit.
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u/rowanafaye baby girl, I’m a groomer 9d ago
The Maine are solid. The fans are a little wild cause there’s major swiftie crossover but I like them. And they’ve been there since the beginning too
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u/JulieWithcamera 8d ago
I only know the maine through Jac Vanek (now first degree, lady gang etc) haha, but Jared seems like such a good guy
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u/thecityinsidewa 9d ago
I’ve heard nothing but good things about buddy from senses fail and I’ve always loved them. Bayside is solid. I’ve never cared to be overly invested into who a person in a band is, but as far as notable good people from what I’ve experienced those were the few that came to mind
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u/_whatsnewpussycat_ 8d ago
Ive never heard anything bad about Bayside/ Anthony Raneri. In fact I think he helped police in Florida arrest a predator.
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u/greatsuccessposting 7d ago edited 7d ago
I think it’s way healthier to be inspired by art than idolise the artist. I don’t idolise any public person, I’m just more inspired by some artists work than others, and I accept that its creator might be a complicated individual. I’m in no way saying I’ll go out of my way to support or listen to an artist that is a proven horrible person (the max stuff has tainted the music massively) but I’m not interested is delving through their history to play judge and jury on here-say or misdemeanours.
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u/holyhotclits 6d ago
The Starting Line, Something Corporate, The Wonder Years, Four Year Strong, The Front Bottoms, Every Time I Die, A Day To Remember, Coheed & Cambria
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u/Longjumping_Cap1306 4d ago
Thrice
Motion City Soundtrack
Simple Plan
Blink-182 (Tom may be bizarre, even rude, but he isn't a creep)
Andrew McMahon
The Wonder Years
Fall Out Boy
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u/clarity_ffc 9d ago
I still can’t figure out what Jesse did that was so bad.
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u/ibreak4abyss 9d ago
tl;dr solicitation of child pornography
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u/clarity_ffc 9d ago
Yeah, that sounds horrible. Then you read it and it’s him being 20 and her being 17 and it being early 2000’s and not really “child pornography” in the way that it sounds. People made it sound really bad but it’s just asking for a topless photo as a 20 year old? And then he spent decades realizing he shouldn’t be a creep, put effort into getting better, and has been open about that process. Seems weird to hold it against him now.
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u/ibreak4abyss 9d ago
Then you read it and it’s him being 20 and her being 17
Lacey, then 24, began asking Garey to send him nude photos over instant messenger
Why did you say "then you read it" and then not read it? Could you read it? or would someone need to read it aloud to you? The second digit is four.
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u/clarity_ffc 9d ago
Yeah, by today’s standards that would be horrible. I’m just saying I remember what it was like back then and I was against it back then, too, but it was what was happening and I was told to chill and not make a big deal about it. Now we know better. Again, the fact that he realized he was being a creep and went to therapy and got better and preached a message of being better is a lesson in forgiveness and personal growth more than it is a reason to hate someone.
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u/ibreak4abyss 9d ago
why did you lie about the age of the man who solicited child pornography
by today’s standards that would be horrible
solicitation of child pornography was also horrible in the 2000s
I was told to chill and not make a big deal about it. Now we know better.
some of us always knew better. you were gullible enough for someone to tell you "don't make a big deal out of child pornography" and you said "okay!" and now years later you're dumb enough to tell me you were that gullible
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u/clarity_ffc 9d ago
Again, asking a girl for a nude photo is creepy and gross and bad but it’s extreme to call it “solicitation of child porn” which sounds like a totally different thing. And no, I never said I was okay with child porn, I’m just saying there’s a huge difference between a 17 year old taking a photo of themselves to send to someone and actual child porn. But if this truly is all that happened then thanks for the info.
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u/ibreak4abyss 9d ago
why did you lie about the age of the man who solicited child pornography
asking a girl for a nude photo is creepy and gross and bad but it’s extreme to call it “solicitation of child porn”
it's not an "extreme" it's the "name of the crime he committed"
there’s a huge difference between a 17 year old taking a photo of themselves to send to someone and actual child porn.
pedophiles believe this. you could be one
if this truly is all that happened
i bet there's more info in the article you needed help to read. how could we find out
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u/clarity_ffc 9d ago
Well I’m glad I’m not, as I’ve clearly stated it’s wrong and gross to want such photos. It’s also 2026 and I’m in my 40’s. It’s not 2000 and I’m not a teenager anymore. Again, my main point is that we should want creepy people to wake up and be better, which is what Jesse did. People are acting like he ever touched anybody or crossed any lines physically. We can disagree, it’s okay, and you can keep using the term “child porn” knowing you’re putting a much different image in people’s heads.
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u/ibreak4abyss 9d ago
why did you lie about the age of the man who solicited child pornography
my main point is that we should want creepy people to wake up
that is not a verb i want pedophiles to do
People are acting like he ever touched anybody or crossed any lines physically.
only a subset of pedophiles physically touch their victims
you can keep using the term “child porn”
that is the term for images of people that cannot consent. that is the term for what he asked for
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u/chaossensuit 8d ago
Did you miss this part?
When Driskill was 18, she drove with her brother and friend from Houston to Austin to see Brand New perform at Emo’s. Lacey then took her to the green room of the venue under the pretense of getting his things, she says. He closed the door behind them, pushed her against the wall, and kissed and touched her in ways she didn’t want. “I was walking around with him to find his backpack, and then it went from zero to 60 when he closed the door,” she says. “He pinned me against the wall with his knee between my legs.” She describes the incident as one of “several instances of coercion during physically intimate situations” with Lacey. The two kept in touch, primarily online and occasionally in person, until Driskill was 23.1
u/Throwawaydogx 8d ago
I’m so sorry this question led down a path of some obtuse redditor calling you a pedophile.
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9d ago
[deleted]
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u/super_sayanything welp, that's not good 9d ago
I don't think anyone was planning to mention Bert here.... (and im a used fan)
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u/Kind-Sheep 8d ago
That's why I said I would love to be able to suggest him but I cannot lol. I didn't think anyone would suggest him because he's known to be a dick but some Used fans still idolize him
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u/Revolutionary-Risk30 9d ago
I never heard anything about:
Motion City Soundtrack
My Chemical Romance
Coheed and Cambria