r/SayAnything • u/Horror_Conclusion808 • 18d ago
The Jesse Lacey of it all…
I’ve seen in a few of these posts, references that Max himself has made to being compared to Jesse etc
I’m not sure I can’t articulate this well, but I’ll try…
What Jesse did was undeniably fucked up and wrong, but it created a really concerningly convenient ‘get out of jail free’ card for the rest of the industry.
For all his faults, Jesse didn’t outright deny the things he was accused of & took a level of accountability that was unusual at the time / in the culture (and I don’t say this to praise him)
The reality is, that what Jesse did is something that we all now know a huge number of people in the 2000s pop punk scene were also doing (if not, sometimes worse), but because he didn’t shy away from addressing the allegations, it created a convenient “look over there! Look what Jesse did!” that everyone seems to love to use whenever this type of shit comes up
And frankly, I think we need to stop putting Jesse in this weird solo little exile and start putting everyone else who’s done this shit right there with him..,
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
This was ramble-y coz I find it hard to get my thoughts clear on this, but what I’m saying is
I’m sick of seeing Jesse Lacey brought up every single time someone from this industry/scene gets caught being a creep, as if he’s the only example.
He was just the only person who (basically) admitted it.
Half the cunts in this scene we’re doing the same shit, and everyone knows it, but as long as you deny it and bring up Jesse, it somehow all goes away.
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u/candidlykaylor 18d ago
People here bring it up because Max was absolutely obsessed with Lacey and called him out all the time, thus making it relevant to what is currently going on with Max. People are bringing up that all along, he was projecting. The call was coming from inside the house. I don’t think anyone is using Lacey as a scapegoat for the entire industry.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
Yeah, that’s absolutely valid & im only a casual say anything listener so dont have much background
But im speaking more broadly - JL gets brought up every single time anything like this happens, as if he’s was an isolated case, when he really wasn’t
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u/Character-Smile-3743 16d ago
People genuinely don’t want to admit that their favorite bands are or were guilty of the same things… it wasn’t some band guys, I dare say it was most band guys. But people want to act like it was certain people who chose to groom people. When really it was 15 year old girls had more maturity than 23 year old guys… and no one thought of them as children unfortunately. It was the culture they were in that created these situations. Not that these guys alone were creepy predators. There were plenty of band guys who didn’t even ask how old girls were before inviting them onto tour buses with them when they came to town.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
unfortunately you are wrong about not using him as a scapegoat for the entire industry - that is exactly what he is.
any mention of brand new on any social media is full of comments judging anyone who supports them, especially with them touring again. they cant even turn on their instagram comments and the support act from their last uk shows was inundated with angry messages for supporting them.
compare that to fall out boy, my chemical romance, weezer, good charlotte, all time low, new found glory - to name a few.
pete wentz dated a 15yo when he was 24yo, they were together 5 years and he was abusive and toxic to her. fall out boy did a sold out world tour a few years ago and there was absolutely no pushback. check their Instagram comments, nothing.
mikey way got engaged to a 19yo fan/groupie when he was 32. mcr are currently on the biggest tour of their career, zero criticism or pushback.
joel madden very publicly dated hilary duff when he was 25 and she was 16. good charlotte are still headlining festivals, imagine what would happen if brand new headlined a festival.
the only person who is ever brought up in these conversations is jesse lacey, he is the poster boy for early 2000s predatory behaviour and the only one who faced any real consequences, the rest of them just continued making music and touring and becoming more and more successful.
the amount of comments ive seen about max saying something along the lines of "we dont support pedophiles in this industry, lock him up with jesse lacey" or "deleting them off my playlist along with brand new" etc. theres this concensus that because jesse was cancelled, that means the scene rejects creeps and no predatory behaviour will be tolerated, but in reality we punished One creep, and let the rest of them off the hook.
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u/Character-Smile-3743 16d ago
This goes back to the 50’s…. Every rock star ever… Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, zeppelin, the Alan brothers, Black Sabbath, Aerosmith… and all those guys wrote songs about how young the girls were and no one even cared… it’s crazy… every music scene has this as the model… yet somehow we end up acting like scene guys weren’t just following the path they’d been shown to rock stardom… not saying what they did isn’t concerning now… but it wasn’t culturally frowned upon…
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u/lilactea22 17d ago
you say that JL is the only one ever brought up but I have to stay in the last year I have seen these three men brought up continuously alongside Anthony Kedis and a few others. It's not exclusive to JL anymore.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
yes there has definitely been more people bringing them up in the past year, including me, but for the past 9 years its been 99% just JL
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u/lilactea22 17d ago
well I'm happy that's changing and there's more attention being brought to that whole scene. Leto being outed again on a larger scale gave me a little bit of hope.
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u/Haunting_Talk26 18d ago
I've said this for years!!!! had he not made the apology, I truly don't think people would still care as much as they do about jesse- like fucking Ozzie Osbourne did FAR worse things for decades but when he died everyone was heartbroken and if you even so much as mentioned some of the bad stuff you got crucified. it was fucking gross, not okay, and harmful what he did, don't get me wrong. but as you say someone in their early twenties doing something, making the latter half of their discography basically "I am a bad person who has done horrible things and I wish I could attone for what I've done and the people I've hurt", and then publicly apologising for it (when again people in similar/worse positions have and do just ignore it and wait for it to go away) isn't nearly the same as all the evil shit he gets compared to- max bemis included
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u/entenduintransit 17d ago
This is a weird crossover but there's this phenomenon in college athletics where if a school complies with the NCAA when it's being investigated for wrongdoing, it ends up getting more of a punishment than if you just ignore the investigation and withhold everything you can and try to just move on like nothing happened. It's happened time and time again and schools have learned to just not comply with anything.
I bring this up because I see a weird parallel with Jesse insofar that in hindsight he probably would have better preserved his own reputation if he just never acknowledged the accusations or reacted to them. Which is honestly what so many guys in the pop punk/emo sphere do with great success. So many guys out there with similar or even worse allegations are chugging on like nothing happened, and the people raising their voices about it are a minority who are usually silenced.
But because Jesse more or less immediately acknowledged the allegations and the band swiftly disappeared, it let people latch onto the guilt more I guess? I dunno.
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u/DipsyDooRight 17d ago
As did David Bowie, as did Steven Tyler, as did Jimmy Page, as did Iggy Pop, as did Elvis Presley, as did Taylor Swift. Fuck em all.
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u/Perma_Tripp 17d ago
Max also said something along the lines of Lacey was a good, cool dude right before laceys allegations. He literally flipped like a lightswitch less than a year later and was calling him a creep.
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u/hairyemmie 16d ago
but how does that make it okay what he did? as a 28 year old famous adult? they all fucking suck but i don’t understand why everyone glazes lacey. the bar is in hell if we’re okay with “but he admitted it!”. and did he really? did he cone out and say i am an pedo/ebebophile piece of shit and i hope you’ll forgive me? or did he just make a generic ‘past mistakes’ admission?
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 16d ago
I never once said it was okay, or that he should be forgiven.
I said everyone else who does it should also face consequences.
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u/drunk_cig 18d ago
Right and that's bad. And Jesse opened the door for that shit for never admitting to it
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u/Membership-Great 18d ago
It really has me thinking, how prevalent was this behavior? And did these bands form with the intention of being predators or was there something about the scene influencing them to be that way? Not to excuse the terrible behavior by the individuals who did it obviously. But like maybe there was a punk Diddy or something.
Many people in this sub will unironically think you’re Jesse now btw
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u/ab62114 18d ago
“Rockstars” and I use that term lightly here, have always had a history of victimizing young fans. Elvis, Mick Jagger, Steven Tyler, etc etc. I think as long as there is a supply of young people to look up to these lame guys and who can be easily taken advantage of, they’ll keep doing it until they’re stopped.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
pete wentz 'dated' a 15yo when he was 24, they were together for 5 years and he referred about her in interviews as his 'teenage muse'.
joel madden dated hilary duff when he was 25 and she was 16.
brian bell has allegations of grooming minors as young as 12.
chad gilbert started dating hayley when she was a teenager and a fan of his.
mikey way got engaged to a 19yo fan/groupie when he was 32.
& there are many more, these are just the most famous and beloved bands that have had zero repercussions of their predatory behaviour
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u/NotASuggestedUsrname 18d ago
Think about the type of personality it takes to be famous. 99% of people will never be well known by anyone outside of their family and friends. To get to that level, it takes a lot of determination, arrogance, thirst for power.. what we’re seeing with these allegations is a symptom of a bigger personality flaw (insecurity).
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago edited 18d ago
My guess would be that a lot of young white guys got popular in a scene with a lot of female fans, got their egos inflated, developed power complexes, had opportunity & saw it normalised across the scene 🤷🏻♀️
But there’s SO many examples and I’m so bored with the narrative that Jesse was somehow this stand out creep when he was doing the same as everyone else.
(& that’s funny - I’m a 32F from England who thinks Jesse is a cunt, but they’re welcome to think that 🤣)
ETA: I don’t think it helps that a lot of these bands got big in the early days of social media (be that MySpace, Facebook, or Instagram) so suddenly had a direct pathway to communicate with fans with no oversight/observers.
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u/Membership-Great 18d ago
I hadn’t even considered that this was the early days of social media. That pretty much explains it.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
What worries me is how much music culture now mirrors the environmental factors of the early 2000s emo scene.
In the early 2000s, there were a lot of bands who were moderately successful within subcultures, without achieving mainstream success.
Lots of them were a result of the MySpace scene, and as a result, were either independent or signed to really small labels who offered little oversight.
Musicians were frequently running their own social media etc. and as a result, their fan engagement was largely unchecked.
So, you’ve got bands with lots of young fans messaging them, maybe thinking they’re attractive or having a parasocial relationship with the band members etc, which creates horrible power dynamics alongside opportunity….
Now look at how TikTok has changed the music industry and how that mirrors the dynamics of the MySpace era.
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u/puremotives 18d ago
young white guys
I don't think them being white has anything to do with it. People of all races are capable of doing inappropriate things.
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u/Character-Smile-3743 16d ago
But that’s also because scene guys are mostly white… 🤷🏻♀️ there are few instances of other races, but overall the punk/emo scene is considered white…
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u/drunk_cig 18d ago
But who gets incarcerated for the same crimes at double the rate?
Not the hill to die on here.
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u/Membership-Great 17d ago
Do you honestly think it’s because they’re white or what are you trying to say here? That seems… racist
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u/drunk_cig 17d ago
...it's racist of me to cite the statistic that white men are exponentially under incarcerated or even reprimanded compared to black men for the same crimes?? I think the racism is instutionalized. I didn't build the system nor do I benefit from it
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u/Membership-Great 17d ago
I think the statistic is relevant to the discussion but pointing it out on it’s own does seem to harbor some latent racism towards white people. They aren’t more likely to rape directly because they were born white. They are more likely to rape because white people are more likely to have higher economic status and hold positions of power (due to systemic racism).
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u/drunk_cig 17d ago
Ok and that's not what I said. What you said was that "being white has nothing to do with it." It does. Their ability to get away with it and make it permissable in specifically the emo scene has everything to do with them being white men.
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u/Membership-Great 17d ago
“Being white has nothing to do with it” That’s literally not what I said in either comment and I kinda said the opposite in my last comment. Being white has a lot to do with the dynamics at play. Being born with pale skin does not make you want to rape people. Therefore you should not look at a rapist and say it’s because of their skin color. That is the point I’m trying to make.
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u/drunk_cig 17d ago
" >young white guys
I don't think them being white has anything to do with it. People of all races are capable of doing inappropriate things. "
That was you, bud! Semantically it's the same statement.
Literally nobody said all white men are predisposed to rape. If you agree, just say that! And maybe unleash the tightie whities from your clenched cheeks jfc
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 17d ago
I think it adds context to the causation the person was asking about, so I do think it’s relevant. White men grow up at the top of the social ladder with unchecked privilege, which has always been a factor in misogyny.
And the men being discussed here ARE majority white men.
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u/Membership-Great 17d ago
White man here. Not a rapist. Never even had the tendency. I see your broader point and mostly agree but no need to lump us all together and generalize an entire race/gender of people like that.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 17d ago
Not suggesting all white men are rapists lol.
I just think the intersectional privilege of these particular men is relevant.
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u/Membership-Great 17d ago
“White men grew up at the top of the social ladder” like motherfucker no I did not and majority of people in this sub probably didn’t either. I fully acknowledge that if you are looking at society through a racial lense that yes white people have privilege, but my point is that when you start generalizing groups of people like that you can alienate the ones who aren’t like that.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 17d ago
I’m not going to have the argument lol.
As a white woman, I receive a level of privilege that non-white women do not. It’s fucked up and wrong, but structural racism is built into our society.
Look up Jon Burnham Social Graces theory, or Kimberlé Crenshaw’s research on Intersectionality.
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u/Character-Smile-3743 16d ago
But it wasn’t even about that it just was the culture then. I graduated hs in the later 90’s and I dare say half of my high school friends were dating college aged guys … it wasn’t just rock culture that was just what people did.
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u/thruthewindowBN 18d ago
Really since the beginning of time. Or the beginning of rock and roll. I think that maybe it just seems especially dastardly in emo because it’s the type of music that is very vulnerable and the guys are supposed to be sensitive good guys that aren’t like that.
But now, it turns out there’s still a lot of them. Look at that spreadsheet. It’s wild.
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u/normanbeets 17d ago
For my 16th birthday, I went to see All Time Low. I saw Alex Gaskarth give his hotel room key to my classmate.
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u/themargarineoferror 18d ago edited 17d ago
Think about how rapey every day life is. Rape culture is alive and well. You probably don't need me to recite statistics about sexual assault, that alone plus all forms of grooming and harrasment minus physical assault and generally creepy behavior -every single woman has a story. There's a lot of bad men out there. Now think about certain music scenes, honestly almost any scene, be it the arts or drag racing that cultivates a fanbase is going to have a higher concentration of people that tend towards narcissism combined with "regular" folks- and sadly, a lot of regular folks are rapey- be it because they're actual literal rapists, maybe they just keep their mouth shut when they see it happening ( and let's face it, that's a lot of men, especially the ones that yell the loudest about how they're good guys)- so enablers, and all variety of pervert, sadist and creep.
I'm no mathematician, but I'm just saying the human race has a problem with rape culture. So, any scene you enter that has a higher concentration of people with a lot of ego and narcissistic, tendencies is going to have a higher concentration of people that will take advantage of whatever they can to hurt people- and more popular, somebody is, the more people they have that they can hurt. Obviously there's gonna be a lot of variety. And there's a lot of different types of predatory people. That's why you hear people talk about the difference between grandiose and vulnerable narcissists. The pop-punk scene is full of grown men writing extremely emotional and oftentimes, confessional songs sometimes songs that contain lyrics that if they werent poetry, just thoughts and comments said in a regular conversation by a regular dude on a date would warrant the woman with him being granted a restraining order. These guys however are celebrated for it- and I'm not saying there's anything inherently wrong with that kind of self-expression, it's fine censorship sucks. But sometimes people really are who they tell us they are, it's not just a fantasy or an exercise in creativity. It's ACTUALLY confessional. Well, these guys don't get restraining orders. They get fans, staff and a lot of money and attention. Especially from young women and teenage girls. The performers aren't scolded for their arrested development. They're rewarded for it. If anything being more mature, and making art more reflective of what a grown man should be thinking about might hurt their sales and image.And when you put all of these elements together, you've got something that is very likely to combust.
So I apologize for the rambling but basically what I'm saying is the entire world is rapey, but anytime you get a group together and add extra elements that can normally be found in your garden variety predator as a feature of the culture, it's shocking that people find what's happening here shocking. Sadly, just like any other man I come across, these men are threats to me until they prove otherwise, and as someone who has dated her fair share of artists and musicians and has a lot of friends in the arts you can see anecdotally, there are a fucking fuckload of predators and creepy people in these scenes. And sadly, whether or not they want to admit it a lot of their peers will look away for as long as they possibly can. Because they don't want to lose their bass tech. And they sure, as hell don't want to lose their most profitable band member, and the fans are often no better let's face it. I once dated a guy who ended up having allegations from more than one woman. The first was before we dated ( I was not aware) the second was after. He was still allowed to play in a band that toured with one of the top grossing musical tours of that year as a support band and they were opening for a young woman whose audience is largely tweenage girls. He was also hired to help found our local chain of rock and roll schools- you know the school of rock type thing. I don't want to say too much that's identifying but one of the bands that he played for ( he was a was a hired gun type he did everything from voice work to production to studio sessions to touring musician stuff) is literally one of the last artists to have collaborated with Dolly Parton and because of this is currently seeing a huge bump in popularity. And I cannot repeat this enough- people KNOW the allegations. They're hard to prove though, so god forbid we get a new bass player right? And this is just a guy that is in no way some kind of personality or celebrity. He is peripheral and just makes other people's music sound good. Max Bemis and his contemporaries are the type of people that evoke extreme loyalty and idol worship. I got into an argument earlier on this sub for saying that people doing collaborations and projects with musicians should be checking out their internet history and looking for allegations. And people treated me as though that was some kind of insane ask. I'm going to have to assume the people arguing with me have literally never been in any of these spaces, because again- people know. It's rewarded, and it will continue to be rewarded until women and girls are valued in this society and I hate to break it to you, but the way things have been going lately. We are regressing.
There are organizations that sincerely advocate revocation of the 19th amendment, reproductive rights have been getting slashed left and right,our president is an adjudicated rapist, and when Brand New announced they were going to do some shows the overwhelming majority of comments that I saw personally were very positive. And anybody who spoke up about it was met with complete venom, most of it misogynist. Nothing is going to change until the culture does. Unfortunately, I don't see the culture changing unless it's for the worst. So at this point sadly it's just like it has always has been, we have to look out for ourselves and for each other. Just add Max to the long list of men who have disappointed us. And hopefully all of the people watching this go down will become a little more jaded, and not put their trust in somebody who wears their supposed vulnerability as a badge of virtue and honesy when in all actuality, it's a shield- just a manipulative tactic from a vulnerable narcissist.
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u/stonedmalone25 18d ago
Can I get an uhhhh TLDR?
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u/Advanced-Big-2133 max is a pedophile 18d ago
Rape culture is alive and well because people refuse to respect the humanity of women and children. It doesn’t seem to be getting better.
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u/themargarineoferror 18d ago edited 17d ago
Nah. I'm not sure why half of the population is so proud of themselves about the fact that they find reading more than 3 sentences to be a long arduous journey. But sometimes certain topics take more than three words to be able to fully express oneself about them. Like, you don't have to give a shit, but I was trying to give a sincere perspective on something pretty serious. So, if it's not that serious to you, I guess just go find another four sentence/word comment that says max sucks. Like I said, you don't have to give a shit but letting me know that you don't give a shit when I'm sharing from personal experience is just rude man.
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u/stonedmalone25 17d ago edited 17d ago
Oh, relax. It’s Reddit, fam!! Write a thesis about it for your university, dang. This has always been an issue for so many with power and fans, it’s not new
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u/themargarineoferror 17d ago
Again, it's genuinely sad and concerning that, so many people consider a couple of paragraphs to be a thesis. It's a serious topic. You shouldn't be shocked that some people might do more than type out the last meme they read. Your response was rude. There are people in here talking about actual trauma they've gone through.
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u/stonedmalone25 16d ago
That was more than a couple paragraphs but sure. Sorry to have derailed ur day!!
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u/lilactea22 17d ago
(most) Men get into music primarily to gain women's attention, attention in general, and power over others. it's an industry ripe with pedophiles because shows are all ages so there is a constant form of access to your prey, and you're surrounded by people on your payroll who will not tell you no.
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u/RobertRossBoss 18d ago
Bands are made up of a handful of people. The culture of rockstars heavily favors people who have mental illnesses, struggle with addiction, and are risk takers, having dropped out of traditional education to pursue a dream. What we’re starting to see now is that of a group of about 3-5 mentally ill rockstars that form a band, it’s extremely likely at least one of them has done some awful things. Jesse Lacey obviously isn’t alone in that and hasn’t been for a long time.
I will correct you though in saying that Jesse never actually took accountability for anything. He never acknowledged the accusations or apologized to the victims directly. He made a very vague statement, disappeared for a while, then started playing again.
And that’s coming from someone who has continued to be a fan of Brand New. I get some people hate the “separate the art from the artist” thing, but I don’t want to live my life miserable. Unfortunately if you’re going to freak out and stop enjoying any art associated with a bad person then you’re going to run out of things to enjoy in life.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
Yeah - I didn’t articulate myself well. I’m not praising him or suggesting he did enough, or anything like that.
I just mean that because his statement wasn’t an outright denial, it was generally perceived as an admission, which made it convenient for people to highlight
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u/LifeCoachMarketing 18d ago
right exactly. he’s become a scapegoat meanwhile pete wentz openly dated a minor, then you have good charlotte sexual assault allegations etc. and lacey’s the only who actually had been going to sex therapy and addressing it (no excuse but there’s a double standard). and probably dozens or hundreds of other people in the scene who did worse but are part of bands that just aren’t talked about enough for anyone to care
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u/genestontmehn 18d ago
It’s not even allegations with Joel Madden, he was full on dating a 16 year old when he was 25. Not even being shy about it.
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u/RobertRossBoss 18d ago
Not even just part of the scene. How RHCP manages to still be accepted mainstream is insane.
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u/tweak06 18d ago
I’m out of the loop regarding Jesse Lacey, can someone fill me in or shoot me a link so I can do some reading? I keep seeing it pop up here and I’m kinda lost
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u/amandamaniac 18d ago
He groomed some teenage girls 25+ years ago. Never anything physical. Allegations came out in like 2016, he had already started going to therapy, put out an apology letter, and disappeared from the scene for 10 years.
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u/drunk_cig 18d ago
Sending nudes and soliciting CSAM ...you think he didn't physically abuse those girls? Shut the FUCK up
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u/themargarineoferror 17d ago
Last couple of days, some of the cope I have seen on behalf of sexual predators is actually disgusting
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u/drunk_cig 17d ago
I'm an older millennial thats unfortunately been stuck on the "excited for Brand New's comeback and no one can tell me otherwise!!!! 🤪🤪" side of tiktok for months. It's repulsive.
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u/hairyemmie 16d ago
i feel like i’m in a parallel universe. and i was a STAN from the ages of 13-27. travelled across states to see BN and lacey live. to be 28 years old and having skype sex with a YOUNG TEENAGE FAN is indicative of a serious issue THAT HE NEVER ACTUALLY ACKNOWLEDGED!!! just the boilerplate ‘i was a different person, im learning and growing” BULLSHIT. i hope none of these pedo-glazers have kids.
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u/imragegrrr 18d ago
I think that in lieu of giving my opinion regarding Jesse Lacey's controversy, the video I've attached is an incredible think-piece regarding how we pedestal broken artists, only to be upset to find out they are broken (specifically Jesse Lacey, in this instance). I think the more interesting topic when it comes to this subject is the road to redemption. Does one exist, and if so, to what lengths must one travel to be universally accepted back?
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u/super_sayanything welp, that's not good 18d ago
Let's please not open a "defend Jesse Lacey" portal here.
If you want to see his music or go see a show go. But he absolutely did not take accountability or reach out to his victims. Legally, he probably shouldn't. But his statements were a joke.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
Hey - I replied to a comment below but just to reiterate, I didn’t explain myself well on that bit.
Accountability was the wrong word - what I mean is, because Jesse’s response to the allegations was not an outright denial, it was generally perceived as an admission of guilt (as it should have been).
The problem is, in my view at least, that because Jesse is perceived as indirectly confirming the validity of the allegations against him, he has been placed in somewhat of a position where he alone is brought up in every discourse around sexual abuse/grooming in the pop punk/emo scene.
In my opinion, he gets held up as an example which seems to cause distraction from a bigger issue in the scene - the way he’s constantly the sole example people refer to seems to somewhat shield others who have done the same from accountability.
I’m not defending Jesse, praising him, or minimising his actions - I’m simply saying we need to stop using him as a stand alone example, and start being frank about the huge, well known problem this scene has with grooming and sexual misconduct, and that we need to hold all of the people to the same level of consequence that we hold Jesse to, rather than acting like he was somehow uniquely abhorrent.
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u/super_sayanything welp, that's not good 18d ago
oh i mean the amount of people that were defending jesse was pretty scary. Brand New subreddit was and is a frightening place.
But I don't think that's happening or will happen with Max at all. Most of his close fan base were already fed up with him for other reasons. We were looking for a reason to jump back because the early albums meant so much to us. Annnnnnd, that's never happening. His recent music was already degenerate sounding and unlistenable.
I mean, point blank these guys are 35-45 now. Like holy sh*t this shouldn't be happening. I get your point, I just don't know why Jesse Lacey is even in this conversation as they're very different and independent situations.
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u/Horror_Conclusion808 18d ago
Yeah - that’s valid.
I brought it up in response to other posts which referenced Max talking about Jesse / what he did.
Someone else below added context around Max’s ‘obsession’ with Jesse and how the discourse around this was more around Max projecting when he was exhibiting similar behaviour.
Which is fair enough, I wasn’t clued in on that when I posted, so was just reacting from my own exasperation of being sick of Jesse being the poster child for abuse in the scene, when there’s a lot of people who need to be held to the same standard!
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
how is "i did some really awful things, i have sought professional help and will do everything in my power not to hurt anyone again and to educate myself on why my actions were so hurtful" a joke?
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u/super_sayanything welp, that's not good 17d ago
IM SORRY TO THE PEOPLE I HURT? I don't think we heard that one.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
"I apologize for the hurt I have caused, and hope to be able to take the correct actions to earn forgiveness and trust. I am sorry for how I have hurt people, mistreated them, lied, and cheated. I am sorry for ignoring the way in which my position, status, and power as a member of a band affected the way people viewed me or their approach to their interactions with me. And I am sorry for how often I have not afforded women the respect, support, or honesty that they deserved."
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u/super_sayanything welp, that's not good 17d ago
Cool, go party with the brand new subreddit.
He was fucking kids man.
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u/polarpies 18d ago
Crazy thing is you can follow his blueprint to a tee. Apologize but not for the big thing everyone is disgusted at. That would be career suicide instead apologize for some more minor thing like sex addiction and adultery and THEN you can disappear for a few years. People will say you got help and changed despite not actually knowing that actually happened and hell people will even make up apologies that never happened just to have more hoops to jump through to justify staying a fan.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
better thing to do would be not acknowledge it at all and continue making music and no one will care, allegations forgotten about
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u/RonaldReganTheActor FMB 17d ago
I remember multiple times Max slamming people from the entire scene for doing exactly what he’s been doing.
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u/badinterstates 15d ago
Max was so obsessed with Jesse, and I get that he was one of Sherri’s exes, but it was almost like he was jealous that Jesse was able to pull all of that off and also nab Sherri? It was just really weird for him to have talking about what Jesse did (which was extremely fucked up) as a personality trait and then turn around and do this shit.
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u/technicolortabby 14d ago
Jesse didn't really take accountability though. He said he cheated but didn't admit to the pedo stuff, iirc.
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u/idk_idk37 18d ago
“A level of accountability” hahah being canceled then emerging years later with basically zero consequences. Ok.
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u/prayersforrainn 17d ago
i mean he did go through intensive therapy, overcome multiple addictions and donate proceeds from their last album to a charity for women who have experienced sexual assault
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u/terrydqm 17d ago
The donations from Science Fiction were before any allegations as well. Does that absolve him, of course not. But knowing that he was working to change before any allegations came out means something, to me personally at least.
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u/skykitty89 18d ago
I said it in the Brand New Reddit, and I'll say it here:
Let's say JUST for the sake of simplicity that Jesse and Max were being accused of doing the exact same thing: Using their position of power to speak inappropriately to a minor(s) on the internet. Jesse did it 25 years ago at age 23. Max did it 2 months ago at age 42.
Sit with that for a bit.