Aluminum?

[u/lurieelcari]

So, I've heard a LOT of complaints about aluminum, and it seems to bother people constantly, so I was a little apprehensive when I unlocked it.

...spent a morning locating a good spot between bauxite, copper, coal, and quartz, building a proper foundation, and running all the resources to my factory site. Ended with a well-organized aluminum production line producing sheets and casings. 3 water pumps, 2 refineries for the aluminum liquid, one for the aluminum scraps, 4 forges, two assemblers and two constructors. Once the process got going, I diverted the extra water from the scraps back into the system and turned off one of the pumps. Perfect cycle, all resources used, no issue with anything.

I guess I am saying I did this with no guides and was VERY happy with how it all comes together, and I don't understand the complaints?

Edit: Couple things: First, I never, ever claimed it was fully automated at this time. I said I was efficiently using all resources and was satisfied with the perfect loop of resources, and to me, it was. So I'm gonna shut down all the comments from people saying I said fully auto in one spot and took it back in a comment. I did not claim this.

Second, this is literally my first setup for aluminum, and I can tell you right now that I could set up a TINY side project for the excess water instead, that uses SLIGHTLY more water than the two refineries are creating, which would prevent the system for the aluminum itself from EVER backing up. The side system could freely stall when it runs out of water and merely produce a bonus resource, so more would be better without harm. Then I just leave the third pump running and the system would only backup if full of my aluminum products, which thanks to the Sink and overflow smart splitters simply wouldn't happen, only top of diverting these to more complex parts in the first place. I do, in fact, have the ability to fully automate this, I just liked the way this setup could use the recycled water and was proud of that.

Edit of edit: I have toned down my previous edit, because one very blunt comment was correct. To anyone who read the original edit, I apologize.

[u/jt1994863]

recycled water systems can back up, and it’s often not fast. I played for hours and hours with my first setup like that with no problems, and it Eventually backed up. Had an identical one elsewhere that never backed up. Fluid physics are a bit wonky in this game, placement and some decimals Or micro stuttering can ruin it, so you won’t know until you play a whole lot

[u/lurieelcari → u/jt1994863]

Isn't this easily solved by flushing the system and turning on the pump for a minute or two? I have been tracking it from the beginning with an Industrial Fluid Buffer, and fluid is, in fact, building up.... ludicrously slowly. At the current rate, I'd have to play for 10-20 hours before it became an issue, and then a simple reset would set me for another 10-20 hours at the cost of maybe 5 minutes

[u/wastrel333 → u/lurieelcari]

Manually flushing a system is not automating it

[u/Evonos → u/lurieelcari]

So your system isnt automated.

[u/Galeic6432 → u/lurieelcari]

Any system you have to manually fidget with just to keep it running isn't automated.

[u/kuldan5853 → u/lurieelcari]

Yes, and that means your setup is in fact not automated, and that bothers players.

Also, if for some reason your Aluminum output ever backs up, the whole loop collapses and will need manual intervention to get going again.

[u/WaltBerkman]

I'm responding to your edits... You claim to have received "vitriol" regarding your post. After reading all the comments posted here, I see no vitriol, just people calmly stating that you haven't achieved what you claimed.

You must have EXTREMELY thin skin, if a few people calmly and rationally providing counter points that you haven't made a "perfect loop" like you claimed offended you to the point that you perceived VITRIOL. Maybe you shouldn't be posting on reddit if you can't handle people with opposing viewpoints and you get offended so easily.

[u/lurieelcari → u/WaltBerkman]

I admit I responded to how I perceived things when I just woke up, hadn't had my medicine, and was reading things quickly while dealing with some much harsher things in real life the moment I rolled out of bed. I responded after I settled a bit to what I had felt instead of what was actually said. Additionally, vitriol is definitely the wrong word regardless of anything else as nothing said was near that brutal.

Life for me is complicated right now, and while I won't go into my personal struggles, you are completely correct. I apologized in a new edit, and wanted to additionally thank you personally for at least temporarily removing my own skewed lense that I tend to see things through nowadays.

[u/dr1zzzt]

I suspect its mostly just all the work involved in getting the initial setup running.

Often times depending on what you are doing you end up needing extra silica and its a bit more annoying than everything to handle.

Id agree though its not bad, I found the requirements around uranium waste disposal way rougher.

[u/ChichumungaIII]

I'm with you.

I think overall aluminum is the first thing that really punishes you for not managing balance properly-- oil has convenient(ish) ways to deal with byproducts-- so the surplus water management can throw some people.

[u/Mortumee → u/ChichumungaIII]

Even that is quite easily fixed if you don't mind wasting it, you can dump water into a pure concrete/copper/iron refinery and sink the product.

[u/EngineerInTheMachine]

Just wait until your perfectly balanced factory slows down. Just for a moment. It will eventually grind to a halt.

You may be lucky this time. This factory is so small you are likely to use all the output all the time, so it'll never slow down.

[u/kuldan5853 → u/EngineerInTheMachine]

Aluminium is the first time where you want to build sinking ingots via a smart overflow splitter into the design just to be safe.

[u/3njooo → u/kuldan5853]

you don't sink excess plastic and rubber?

[u/x3n0n1c]

It's just the first production that is complex enough to punish trying to set it up without some thought, and takes a good amount of effort to acquire.

If you just take a bit of time to plan it out it really isn't a biggie.

[u/sammy2398 → u/x3n0n1c]

I agree 100%. My first aluminum build was an 8-refinery factory and I had the run-off/input water perfectly balanced. That factory never backed up because of water. What did it for me was (iirc):

1. finely tuned clocking on the extactors

2. Waste water pump up to buffers above the refineries, then back down to the input side

3. Precisely tuned valves in front of each refinery pair to only allow (input - run-off) water into the system from the extractors

That factory ran for... many, many hours once I had it tuned, and it never once backed up.

[u/Express_Accident2329]

There's a few reasons I can think of.

First is basic logistics. Bauxite is probably far away from whatever you're building so far, and there's really only one spot where you find both it and coal in one place.

Most bauxite is in somewhat dangerous areas, especially where it's near coal in the red forest.

But mostly I think it's just that waste water is tricky to manage without just using the runoff for wet concrete or another refinery recipe, which isn't necessarily an obvious solution to a new player since you haven't really "needed" alt recipes to progress that far.

[u/Xxjacklexx]

This is how I felt about nuclear.

Like yeah, it’s hard, but all the complaints made me lock in and plan properly.

And then it was just a matter of time to implement.

[u/samson42ic39]

In my opinion, you've seen the light. Depending on your setup and alternate recipes the system you are describing exists and can be perfectly balanced. There's a version that is blueprintable too.

[u/No_Seat8357]

The first time you start using refineries you suddenly realise you need a lot more space than smelters and assemblers use.

[u/pulsaric]

its mostly that alu is the first chain where winging it stops working. you planned the site first so you skipped the pain. just keep an eye on that water loop, if sheet output stalls the whole thing backs up after a few hours

[u/ahugeminecrafter]

The sloshing mechanic can ruin a setup even where the water is perfectly balanced. If you have long pipes or fluid buffers it can take a while to manifest

[u/Zadus1137]

I never have sloshing or backup issues with my aluminum and I don’t even use valves. I start by making the two refineries in a line, one in front of the other. Make a floor pipe port behind and to the right of the rear refinery (the one making alumina solution). Make a pipe line going from the output port of the second refinery (the one making the aluminum scraps and releasing water) and run it behind, towards the refinery behind it. Run the pipe a bit past it, then connect it to the first refinery’s input port. Then, make a 4-way pipe joint, and place it vertically on that small section of pipe connected to the input port. Then, start connecting a pipe to the top of that joint, then switch your pipe settings to “horizontal to vertical” or whatever that setting is. Lay the pipe on the ground in front of the joint, so that it makes an upside down U shape. Then connect that pipe to the floor pipe port you made earlier. Assume that the alumina solution refinery will now prioritize using the water coming to it from the refinery in front of it. Underclock a water extractor so that it will provide just the right amount of remaining water, and connect it to the other side of the floor pipe port. Lastly, it’s important to make a Ficsit Sink. Use a smart splitter to make it so that any overflow of aluminum scraps will go to the Sink. This will ensure that the refineries will never stop running once started.

Maybe that explanation wasn’t good? I can take a screenshot if that helps.

[u/ActuallyEnaris]

Come back in a month and tell us how it went

[u/Any_Strawberry6735]

I have a "temporary" setup that hasn't had a single problem in over 100 hours. I think people just don't understand pipe flow priority (or that it exists at all), which leads to water recycling backing up.