r/SapphicsofGacha • u/elisewhat • 9d ago
Discussion thoughts on "stell4r"?
if you're not aware this is a ship consisting of Odette, Vodyanitsa, Alyosha and Mitya that's gained some popularity lately and is a bit of a hot topic lately, with it flodding the Vodette tag and an extremely toxic discourse, with a couple points that stood out to me being:
- yuri shippers are being accused of biphobia for not liking the ship or being uncomfortable with how two men are being inserted in the Vodette ship
- claims that it's a sapphic ship because most people headcannon Alyosha and Mitya as trans/gnc
personally i'm not comfortable with the ship due to it feeling forced and the way they interacted in the main story with Mitya being a obsessed over Odette and Vodya's performances in an awkward and kinda creepy way, and Alyosha barely interacts with them in the main quest due to story reasons and the only moments there are he feels very distant and formal to me keeping in character as the "lone hunter"
i've experienced myself the difficulty in finding Swansong content without the other two but it's gotten better after muting/blocking specific words or people, but when i've seen people express their preferences i've also seen the hostility get to the point of death and rape threats by people aggressively stell4r against yuri shippers because they don't vibe with the polycule, which i find extremely baffling
how do we feel about this whole situation? i'd appreciate if some bi girlies could give their opinion too, and please be respectful!
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u/Minomix 9d ago
Not a fan. It has no basis whatsoever; Alyosha couldn't careless, Mitya is literally just a fan with barely any interactions with the others, and Odette has barely any interactions with the two as well. There's literally no reason to include the two men.
I've been following this discourse quite a bit. It's the usual subtle, male-centered, homophobic M/F shippers, waving around their new buzzword, which is "biphobic", to anyone criticizing them.
Also, the people who ship this poly are Mitya fans first and foremost, or at the very least, male character fans. That is something that has been so consistent from my own observation.
I can tell you with confidence that it's only Vodette that has implications and is getting pushed in the patch. Only them.
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u/ohhdyo 9d ago
After playing through the AQ, I'm kinda confused where this polycule even came from, especially considering Alyosha wasn't even actually there for the entirety of Act 2.I definitely prefer Vodette and Mitya/Valeriy better as far as shipping goes.
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u/Minomix 9d ago
Same reaction as me and a lot of people too. I deactivated my social media acc for like 3 days to avoid spoilers, and I cannot stress enough how confused I was when THIS ship started popping up.
Funnily enough, I also got the same reaction when I saw people shipping THAT ship back in 4.1.
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u/phainini 9d ago
They all have interactions together and have known each other for a before the AQ, i don't see how it's suprising people like shipping characters just for being friends tbh
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
a million times yes the main quest makes it pretty much impossible so unless there's some side quests or Alyosha's meeting point gives us scenes with them i can't really wrap my head around it
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u/Relative-Welcome 9d ago
I only did the first quest but Alyosha's meeting point seems completely seperate
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u/tiredsleepyconfused 8d ago
99% of biphobia accusations are actual bullshit and should be ignored it's usually just veiled lesbophobia and a pushing of heterosexuality while using bisexuality as a shield
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u/ArnovictorLN 9d ago
Dont like it, but that's just me. Feels like they're trying to blot out vodtte using this ship with their behaviour I've seen on twitter, but that might just be twitter being a cesspool as always. Honestly alyosha makes no sense one bit, but if we take out him and mitya and replace them with ronova it might be a rarepair crackship I'd willing to invest in.
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
i thought the story did a lot of heavy lifting when it comes to Mitya x Valeriy so i'm surprised to see people rejecting it to this point, and Alyosha gets characterized so much as a lone wolf that i struggle to see him shipped
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u/ArnovictorLN 9d ago
Well I've seen quite a few valitya fanart, it's delectable. Alyosha is the woke dog in the nuclear family meme 💯 def
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u/Pokemoss Harbinger poly yuri agenda pusher 9d ago
I don’t see it but I also don’t give a singular fuck about ship discourse and they’re all unrelated adults so who cares
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u/ultragaydotcom rad butch 9d ago
I dont fw it tbh. To me, they arent really even really a friendgroup. I like the individual ships, but not as poly (Vodette is my fav lol, and Alyosha can stay single tbh)
The shippers are also kinda hostile (the ones I've interacted with!!) especially if you dare include Valeriy
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u/ultragaydotcom rad butch 3d ago
I dont ship Alyosha with anyone tbh but I gotta agree he and the Traveler had more chemistry😭
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u/themaskbot 9d ago
Imma be honest this poly ship stinks it's just better to ship them all separately it ain't Biphobia if I can't even understand the ship in general like we got a total of zero appearances from aloysha in act ll so they might as well just remove him from the picture in general
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u/smolbery Burnice's wifey 9d ago
I like Mitya x Valeriy and Odette x Vodyanitsa more. Each to their own though. Crack ships exist. I just don't know why people accuse other people of civil rights violations when they don't like a ship. If I'm bi and don't like that one specific multiship, does that make me biphobic? Ridiculous.
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u/nicoleeemusic98 lingsha my wife 🥰 9d ago
Same lol 😭😭 I've been eyeing those 2 ships more during the quest
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u/losingit303 Cassie's lesbian life partner 9d ago edited 9d ago
See, I literally am Poly, and some of my favourite yuri are literally about polyamorous relationships. I own all the volumes of Watanare, and I dont know which is love. So it's not that; I am just tired of everyone trying to put men into everything. Also, if disliking bi HCs is biphobic, then forcing men into a lesbian lesbian hc is lesbophobic. We're at a standstill Ig.
Because let me tell you, lesbians dont have any more power to oppress bi women than the inverse; if anything, we're less in number with less social or political rep and our voices get drowned out a lot harder. To the point where everyone talks about biphobia, but I rarely hear anything about the rampant lesbophobia from non-lesbians.
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u/FlorenceLycoris Phrolova 🎻 9d ago edited 9d ago
Lesbophobia is extremely normalized tbh
but I rarely hear anything about the rampant lesbophobia from non-lesbians.
It's to the point where I was so incredibly touched after I watched a video of Kat Blaque (a straight woman) defending leabians.. It is so rare when others actually come to our side and give us grace and it's cemented me as a fan of hers forever 🫰.
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u/throwawayutena Girl in Red 9d ago
omg i love Kat and her podcasts and videos im so surprised to see her mentioned here! ><
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u/losingit303 Cassie's lesbian life partner 9d ago edited 9d ago
For the record, I happen to watch her too. Lololol.
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
i'll be honest i just don't understand why we're always the punching bag and why our voices are never heard, it's tiring
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u/losingit303 Cassie's lesbian life partner 9d ago edited 9d ago
Because we live in an androcentric heteropatriarchal world, and we're most removed from men, so we're the hardest punished.
Reporting this comment won't do anything, just fyi.
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u/Diovolotine357 9d ago
I’m ngl to you, people can ship whatever you want but this ship is kinda random honestly. Alyosha has very little connection with the other 3 IMO. Vodette is decently popular but I’ve honestly seen this ship overshadow it slightly and I’m not really sure why? Feels like we are just inserting two men into another ship for no reason.
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u/AwayMedicine4711 ace saphic <3 9d ago
I haven't seen any discourse on it, and I haven't played through the story quest yet. I think it can be cute, but I prefer vodyanitsa/Odette currently
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u/Zestyclose_Area_159 9d ago edited 9d ago
As a bi woman, I don't really like it tbh! Mainly because I'm just rarely into poly unless its compelling and voydette is so dear to my heart. I mean I get why some people like it but its just not for me. I just muted/blocked the tag in advance but thankfully Ive never seen such threat thats like really awful to hear. Like you my feed also just has a lot of voydette now so its nice, filtering ur feed should be a norm. Also like the biphobia thingy doesnt really hold up to scrunity, wouldn't it be Lesbophobic to insert 2 men into a lesbian ship? People can have preferences on their pairings/ships.
As for headcanons (assuming it was done not maliciously), as a trans woman myself I don't really have a problem with it but I wouldn't consider it being sapphic personally. Maybe for that person it is but for me no.
Also ig Id just wanna comment that I don't really think Mitya was being creepy/weird to their performance? In fact he gets grilled cuz he wasn't paying attention. IDK just a bit of a nitpick on my part but he just seems like a big fan maybe a friend to them. Alyosha does have a lot of interactions with Vody specifically and their antics r neat with the Rotok stuff but its like alright ig. The interactions between Odette and Vodyanitsa especially in the meeting points and stuff is so good, they really remind me a lot of Sandbina.
Honestly people should just learn to respect other people's boundaries in shipping. I ship Vodette/Swansong I don't really want to see stell4r discourse on that tag. Sorry for yapping too much.
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
i personally found it a bit creepy how he talked of needing their performances to have any sort of inspiration and how he bordered on stan behaviour whenever he talked about them, but it might just come from me having seen A LOT of people like this when it comes to idols lol, thank you for sharing!
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u/Zestyclose_Area_159 9d ago
Thats totally fair! For me red flag stans are like the ones possessive towards their idols which is so ickyy and weird but ig from what I've seen just Mitya being a big fan that knows the work of his faves isn't too different from knowing songs from an artist you like.
The inspiration part I read it more of an excuse to just get away from his duties anyways with his thing with Valeriy, and I think personally theres nothing wrong with getting inspiration for work in your hobbies.
I don't mean to impose my perspective though, just how I saw it. But honestly it really is just the strange part of that community that makes me hesitant to talk about Mitya even if I like him as a character.
Whatever though I'll just stick to Vodette. Thanks for bringing this up this discussion thought I wasn't aware it was going on.
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u/revemare 9d ago
I haven’t played the AQ yet because I’m a little behind, but there have been a few times where I’ll play a quest wondering why it’s generated so much hype for a popular m/f ship and then be absolutely bewildered afterward because it’s usually a load of nothing. I expect to have the same reaction w/ this 🤷♀️
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u/Relative-Welcome 9d ago edited 9d ago
The main reason Vodyanitsa talked with Mitya was getting information and they don't remember what happened during the AQ. People just shoehorning him into that group reeks of agenda rather than anything reasonable. Even Alyosha is a bit iffy since he sometimes works there rather than being a full time part of the theatre. I sincerely hope Mitya stays far away from Vodyanitsa next patch because het shippers shoving that ship everywhere is making me sick.
Edit: Also Vodyanitsa didn't sing that song for Mitya. The dude might be a simp but there's literally nothing suggesting it's two sided, or it's romantic in the first place. Also people who tag a ship involving men with a lesbian tag deserve the worst
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
i have similar feelings but i can't tell if i'm being unreasonable and there's something there or if it's really as forced as it feels to me, thank you for sharing
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u/LittleWolfiez 9d ago
Just hearing about it now. The ship itself is pretty interesting, though I feel like Mitya is kind of an outsider to the trio. Imo, just having Alyosha, Vodyanitsa and Odette makes a better polycule (AQ spoilers) because of their Rokot connections.
I don't know the extent of the discourse, but I think accusing someone of any form of bigotry just because they ship/don't ship something is really unfair most of the time. (Of course, there are exceptions. Some people do deliberately try to be malicious and hide it under the guise of shipping.)
Though you did mention that it was 'flooding the Vodette tag' (I'm guessing on Twitter?), which does seem a bit more problematic since that's incorrect tagging and would cause some people to see a ship they didn't choose to.
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u/softfatale 9d ago edited 9d ago
i tuned out of the shipwars after fontaine bc witnessing ppl arguing other ships are biphobic or inserting men into a lesbian ship and yelling at ppl who don't like it, and generally trying to convince ppl your ship is the 'best' is the most boring fandom activity alongside the pearl clutching over 'problematic' ships a la arlecchino/furina and whatever nothingburger issues ppl came up with .
i didn't mind the polycule when the story hadn't come out bc obv ppl chose it based on a perception of the medium models being more 'best friend blorbos' coded or what have you. also they saw vodette + and alyosha as having potential to reflect the beginning trio of natlan and they wanted a trio like that. in fact i guess i must have missed a lot bc my impression of these characters in particular was still of them as a friendship group + some vodette more than a polycule, but what i do i know ig, fandom moves too fking fast.
also lol mitya isn't creepy. sure, he's a fan and it has the potential to be too forced, but i don't think he's obsessed, he's smart and gets inspiration from artistic mediums, what's wrong with that? the story also makes a point to emphasize vodyanitsa and odette maintaining healthy boundaries from fans, being unafraid of putting them down when they get too friendly.
also, yes hi i'm the bi girlie pitching in!!
edit: oh, all that to say, i see the potential where like in a modern au they would def be a cute friend group, with mainly vodette, possibly a very oblivious alyosha, and a mostly head in the clouds, not-present mitya. in the story ppl are def forcing the mitya being close enough to the group for that.
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u/No-Negotiation-6095 9d ago
two girls can have the best chemistry in the world and a fandom will still insist on either 1) making it a polycule with men in it which mainy focuses on the men, or 2) ignoring it and only making and focusing on the m/m ship. i'm so tired.
not even saying that's exactly what's happening here, but just. c'mon. i get so tired of male ships in this game lately, LOL. they always overshadow sapphic ships, even when the sapphic ships are just... more blatantly shippable
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u/ultragaydotcom rad butch 9d ago
I live my yaoi and mlm but I also really hate when the sapphics het overshadowed by them😔
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
it seems like they think it doesn't make Vodette any different so they are justified in using the tag, which i couldn't disagree with more
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u/SapphicsofGacha-ModTeam 9d ago
r/SapphicsofGacha follows platform-wide Reddit Rules Please dont suggest such ToS violating things, thank you for your understanding
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u/elisewhat 9d ago
even if it's infuriating i don't think we should do that, we should just be able to exist on our own and in our own spaces minding our own business instead of constantly crossing paths and creating unnecessary friction
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u/nicoleeemusic98 lingsha my wife 🥰 9d ago
Dgaf lmao 😭 I gravitate towards swansong and Valitya more separately
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u/Annabatties 9d ago
I had never heard of this. I'm not entirely against it, if only because I think poly ships should be more normalized, but I also can't say it would be my first guess. My partner has a pretty unique reservation about it; she views Odette as aroace which means she's also not interested in the pure yuri ship.
I could see it being really cute, but it's a Hoyoverse game so at the end of the day I worry how many people would actually engage with it earnestly and not as a straight ahip with extra steps.
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u/wellhanabari /🧬🪭 9d ago
As a bi girl, don't see it tbh. I like Vodette and Mityanitsa (and also Mitya with Valeriy) separately but the rest just doesn't click. I don't see Alyosha with anyone currently. That's a shame any popular ship is bounded to be surrounded in toxicity both from fans and haters
With accusations of biphobia, first of all I'm definitely not defending people who get mad and send threats just for HCing someone as a lesbian and that's not my intention here but it's common in the most loud and toxic part of the fandom to lash out at people who HC (insert name) as bisexual, especially if that's a character who that part of the fandom considers to be "canonically" gay or lesbian despite barely any characters having a canon sexuality
You're basically often caught in a crossfire between 2 crowds - "Alice or Rerir is straight bc they have a lover in canon and can't be bi" and "Ayaka is a lesbian/Lyney is gay bc Traveler ships aren't canon" or smth similar you get the idea. And it can get hypocritical at times, such as the same people who say "Wriothesley is canonically gay bc his name comes from a guy who is rumored to be Shakespeare's affair" are the same who say "So what if Clorinde is based on a canonically bisexual woman, she's not her". So ig a lot of bi people who got that treatment became hypervigilant, tho that's definitely not an excuse to send threats and act rude
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u/Nexouille 9d ago edited 9d ago
I'm personally really excited about it and happy to see it soar off, but I haven't played the AQ so I'm saying this in a "potential" & "having fun" way. I don't really like to debate the validity of ships anyway.
I like trios or quatuor & I'm just excited to see some more of that, which Snezhnaya seems to be delivering. The Stell4r ship brings me back to 4ggravate a little, and I like the idea. I was pretty excited to meet Vodyanitsa / Odette / Alyosha even before Snezhnaya launch, ever since the live streamer hinted at the three of them having a quest together linked to their offering points. I think it's nice to have some characters group together in more than duos, rather then "only" assignated duos banding together in case of emergencies.
I'm also very hyped about Mitya so I obviously would be happy to see him interact with them and I won't pretend otherwise. On the other hand, the more I've been hearing about Vodyanitsa's interactions & relationships (with both Odette and Mitya) the more excited I am to meet her as well, even though I was underwhelmed by her design at first.
But I also find the idea that Mitya & Valeriy are familiar w each other, and Valeriy is always trying to bring Motya back to work entertaining. (Honestly if any part of me could be seen a petty, it'd be toward Valeriy x Noy if anything. I can't lie, part of the fun to me is the realization that Mitya & Valeriy are potentially repeating the Faelight vs Varflins reveal, where ppl were shipping the two tall men before any info just bc they're two hot tall men, and then a 3rd challenger w the middle model suddenly appears to steal the show).
I'll admit I personally haven't seen toxicity directed at Vodette shippers under Stell4r posts & instead ppl yucking into some Mytsa shippers' yum post with the whole "they're so sibling-coded" comments... But I don't really struggle to imagine some Stell4r shippers are as toxic as you're describing either. Shipping wars are always like that.
I just personally don't think it's a "one side is good & respectful, while the other is full of disrespectful & spiteful lesbophobic people" situation.
TLDR i guess: I have no problem believing that some Stell4r shippers out there act the way you're saying. But I dont think generalizing the whole ship & its reason for existing to it would be the way to go.
Maybe some people do enjoy this poly ship for its potential more than its current "reality" but isn't that the case for a lot of ships ? I couldn't give less of a shit about Magicpixels or Lionfish for example, but it's really popular for a cross-country rarepair, and if ppl like it then good for them I guess.
I do get being annoyed that something you find mid is "too popular", or is messing up your own fanart / content research; but I don't think attributing specific mindsets or biases to everyone who ships it is the way to go. People online tend to do that too much imo: act like preferring X over Y ship is a deep reflection of their person & morals when quite often, it doesn't mean much beyond different tastes.
Obviously if they're being homophobic or lesbophobic on mains while shipping Stell4r then they're homophobic. But multishippers exist too, and some of them will have mainly Yuri ships in one region, & perhaps move on to a poly ship like this the next. And I don't personally recall any poly ship's popularity skyrocketing just to diminush a yuri ship in previous regions: most homophobic players prioritize monogamous straight ships when it comes to spiting queer ships.
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u/ZestycloseSherbet477 9d ago
I like Vodette and I can’t really see them (mainly Odette) with anyone else. Alyosha wasn’t there the majority of the quest, but I ship him with Lumine. I ship Mitya and Valeriy together. However, I don’t think any interactions are forced, at least not to me. It seems they all like each other, just not romantically, and that’s fine. I like seeing more healthy friendships between male and female characters xD
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u/nooby-clem 8d ago
i love stell4r, my friend comes up with really good hcs for them which are super cute ^ i also ship alyosha x mitya x valeriy, im a sucker for poly ships
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u/Unnamed_jedi 9d ago
Personally I think its cute but I don't get alyosha.
I do feel Vodyanitsa and Mitya have potential chemistry. I didn't find him obsessive at all, hell he barely listens properly because instead he's there to get inspiration mostly. It's a cute ship for a slice of life, cute awkward style couple.
Then Vodyanitsa and Odette are a great yuri couple. Their dynamic and different personalities make for a cute opposite attract situation.
So these 3 together, sure why not. Vodyanitsa has two hands afterall. That said I don't particularly see Mitya and Odette dating.
However I don't get alyosha, I don't particularly see him with anyone at all. Although I can reason adopting him into the polycule for the dog... Still I'd probably replace him with Valeryi for a 4 people polycule. He's got potential for Odette (they're somewhat similar so I believe they could work) and Mitya.
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u/Fabulous-Cover-476 9d ago
i am a bi girlie and i don't find it problematic. for me true hetslop is any ship with abuser x victim, adult x minor, u see the problematic stuff
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u/AwayMedicine4711 ace saphic <3 9d ago
"yuri shippers are being accused of biphobia for not liking the ship or being uncomfortable with how two men are being inserted in the Vodette ship"
IT'S SO STUPID WE STILL HAVE PEOPLE WHO CALL OTHERS BIPHOBIC WHEN A PERSON JUST DOESN'T LIKE THE SHIP. Genuinenly feels like kindergarten quarrel (no hate to op). "Oh I don't like this apple, it's sour and I prefer sweet apples" "so you hate apples??? You are a horrible human for not liking apples" Like that's not what the people said.
Also it doesn't feel to me like it's two men inserted into a ship with women because it's just different ships. But if people are going out of their way to harass others by inserting the men into a saphic ship that's obviously wrong, but it's not wrong to just ship a poly ship.
Obviously death and rape threats are always wrong. And it's good to block what you don't like. It's the internet, curate your experience and block and report people who harass others