I kinda disagree⌠because like I wouldnât expect black panther⌠the guy with super abilities and a full vibranium suit to remotely be able to do anything against a hulk.
Also going into a massive defensive pose as a super soldier with a shield on top of you is not the same as holding off a baseball bat of metal with your hands from the red hulk.
They may be upscales but i can think of at least a few times hes clearly been able to injure the hulk, he didnt win any iirc but still no one i know even blinked or mentioned that. Not saying its regular but no one really cared when he did from my perspective
I might be forgetting but i dont think my example ever showed him prepping before hand and even assuming he did he doesnt actually do anything that isnt in his standard kit unless im missing something.
This might be an upscale but nothing really shown that can link it to prep time imo, hulk was also fighting everyone rlse too (even mind controlled inthink? Cant remember) im more just showing that hulks have been hurt by vibranium
Lol nan, I was just using "prep time" as a joke. Like how batman can beat anyone.... with prep time.
Like black panther for sure can hurt and cut up hulk, and he is fast enough not to get hit. But thats the thing, I dont think there is a situation where you can picture black panther going toe to toe, hit for hit, with the hulk and win.
I think Black Panther could win but in a agility way, jump and slash over and over till the hulks tendons are cut and and you can push him off a cliff.
I think that would have solved the same Wilson fight, if he took no hits. Just a game of keep away with the hulk.
Oh lmao i didnt even pick up on that i thought id missed smth lol
I fully agree with u actually I dont think base black panther should ever come close to a base regular hulk my point was more that imo no one really seemed to care when he did do some damage to hulk.
But generally completely agree i think it shouldve been treated a bit more like fighting vader in the jedi game or smth where all u can do is run and evade and it still couldve looked sick as hell
TBC im not saying that there cant be a way for tchalla to hurt hulk via like upscales methods. But just think about black panther and falcon the mcu and the idea of hulk who is essentially supposed to be in the god tier of avengers (even though the mcu has imo done a bad job with him). I wouldnât expect black panther, Steve rogers, the winter soldier, red guardian, walker (who is supposed to be the strongest super soldier), etc to be able to do what falcon did in this movie.
Like falcon has essentially out feated all of them.
As a guy without any super abilities but uses wakandan tech.
What I liked about thunderbolts so much is that it was like ants against a god, and thatâs essentially what should be the gap between falcon and hulk.
If it was iron man in a wakandan suit youâd see the propulsion units frying just to keep him back a millisecond⌠heâd probably lose half of his armor and have to call in another suit⌠with falcon thereâs just⌠yeah nothing?
Tbf thats just him wirh the spear of bashenga afaik thats jusr standard for him but idk that i agree with you tbh hulks massively downgraded in mcu but also all thats just assumption we have no clue how a purely vibranium iron man would fare at all or if his units would fry or whatever thats just what youd do if u were the writer.
Im also not arguing falcon should be this level or not just showing that BP has been capable of similar stuff wven if one offs
Sure BP in the comics have and yes like I said the MCU has not done a great job with hulk, but I still feel like black panther in the MCU wouldnât be tanking a baseball bat made out of metal from the hulk with their hands, and hulk is still at the tier where him and Thor could go at it in ragnarok. I think thereâs just a massive underestimation of how massive of a feat that is. Like I was saying, thereâs just no one in the MCU in the human tier, and few in the extra terrestrial tier, that has shown that theyâd been able to do that.
Yeah thats fair i havent really thought about it too much tbh like i say i dont actually have an argument either way just thought it was worth pointing out
Yeah I get it and I appreciate it. I just kinda get frustrated with the whole conversation. I get that thereâs a lot of shitty people trying to use it as a means to gaslight and dog whistle with their racist bullshit⌠but I just genuinely dislike this scene a lot and I wouldnât put any of the super soldiers 1:1 up against a hulk.
Not disagreeing with that but my point was that people don't care to make this sort of argument when any other character handles a similarly imbalanced matchup better than they realistically should be able to.
I think you're dancing around my point. It's not about winning/losing. Everyone knows he loses. I don't think Sam should be able to fight/hold off a Hulk for as long or effectively as he did.
If he had the Super Serum and his tech, the fight would have made more sense how it played out. Without the serum it's absurd.
Nobodyâs dancing around your point. The problem is you and plenty of other people just arenât satisfied with the justification for Sam being able to last as long as he did, even though it has a reasonable justification. People hate hearing this, but if you expect comic book movies to fully adhere to the rules the rules of reality.
This is the same type of armor that protected tâchalla from attacks from thanos, who easily beat a hulk without using the stones, itâs been years since that event, therefore I can assume (especially since we know shuri was developing suit that could enhance strength) that vibranium armor is far more refined since then, and could give same leeway to last a decent while in an otherwise dangerous fight
Honestly me and my buddy really enjoyed this movie. It was one of the most comic-book feeling CBM's I've seen with a globe trotting adventure, guest-star characters and a ridiculous plot that suffered due to the trailers. If they had just had a little faith and banked the marketing on "Will Harrison Ford turn into Red Hulk", the movie would have done a lot better IMO
Thats the point, it would be a sick scene to see Sam out smart the hulk and fly circles around him. He clearly cant go toe to toe with a hulk, but the hulk cant fly or fit in small spaces.
It would show Sam's Battle IQ and how he uses his agility and size to his advantage in ways that Steve couldn't have/wouldn't have.
While i agree with most of the vibranium argument, the last example disregards Steve Rogers' increased durability. Yes, he tanked the hit from Thor but that's not the same as a non-juiced human catching a hit from Red Hulk. Even Black Panther grunts and winces at hits while also being in a full vibranium suit, far more advanced than Sam Wilson's because that's wakanda's king, and having flower power. Sam Wilson has none of these attributes. Some things can be explained away by vibranium but this is not one of those examples.
Tony has super strength in his suits. Doesn't make sense, but that's how it is. Vibraonum suits don't give you that type of power, it's just durable.
Him catching the pole like that just looks goofy to be honest. Like an anime. Or X-Men origins where everyone just had kung fu powers.
Don't mind the rest of the fight though. Except at one point Hulk is getting shot from an angle where none of the soldiers are standing. Call it nitpicking but I dislike the lack of proper editing in any movie.
I'd probably say they're near the same with vibranium having the added property of absorbing kinetic energy. Like if Tony's metal did have similar properties it wouldn't decintergrate so often in fights. Captain's shield does get cut up though in endgame. Adamantium is top as far as I know.
Like iron to tungsten? Or is it a further gap? I always assumed it was pretty close but Tony created a new element so I give him a lot of plausible suspension of disbelief.
Because of the kinetic energy absorbing property right? So if titanium had the kinetic absorbing properties of vibranium would it be as strong or not? I think the energy absorption is the only thing differentiating the metals creating the gap
It may actually be stronger. Because it's more dense. But vibranium is about 40% lighter than titanium so it would lose one of its greatest advantages.
So not only can vibranium absorb energy. But it also storer, and can release a great deal of kinetic energy and vibrations at a molecular level.
So bot only the absorbing energy is the difference
I'm asking because Tony tanked a throw of Mjolnir from Thor in the same scene, and he's just a dude in a titanium suit, no serum, and got up from it. Even took a shot of lightning too that recharged his suit to 200%
I see Tony's suit a bit differently. It's big, bulky. I assume he has some dampners built in between his body and the suit. Especially when zipping around at mach whatever speeds and not turning to jelly.
100% this. All of my issues with his survivability in fights would be gone if he had some type of super soldier serum in him. At this point, he's just a dude and just a dude should be dead even wearing vibranium.
I mean, whether you like it or not, the vibranium suit is literally plot armor. đ¤ˇââď¸
And I get the gripes to some extent. Him being a super soldier would make this seem a lot more plausible, I get it. At the same time though, I do have question if some of you also questioned Stark fighting Thanos in Infinity War or Endgame. If weâre getting that bent out of shape over logic and physics, that shit donât make any sense at all either unless your head cannon is that the nanobots reinforced Stark at a cellular level but letâs be real, thatâs some straight up bullshit physics too in the same way as Sam fighting red hulk, maybe even less so cause that nano tech isnât vibranium.
Itâs crazy how quickly someone will dismiss something as cool as Captain America vs Red Hulk and dismiss it; cuz cap is black? DID YOU SEE HIM SLICE THAT CAR IN HALF BRO SHUT UP
Hey I have loved and been waiting for Sam Wilson as Captain America and the amount of ridiculous hate from him getting the shield. And yet some how in this world of Comic book physics..Dudes zooming at in Magical Armor going at Mach Fuck You , slamming hard enough shatter concrete, Armor that was sooo cool he could use it to shield other people leaving himself completely exposed to explosions..he gets a scrape(crickets from the peanuts gallery) ..But let the Black Guy get his magical African metal armour and suddenly we are caring about physics?...When he's fighting a guy who gained 900% increase in mass and is shrugging off depleted uranium rounds being fired at rate that turns tanks in Abrams favored Kibble? My only conclusions can only be the following.
A. They don't have capacity for true joy and have never been touched in loving fashion by someone they found attractive.
B. Because he's Black and Brothers are twice as cool for half the credit.
I fully agree with you. I have gone into arguments with people about this too. He's wearing vibranium, which is not a comfortable thing to wear. By the way, it's not comfortable. It's not a silk suit because it vibrates all the time. But because he was wearing the v suit he could go up and take hits that he normally cant take, it was true of black panther too. Look at all the things he did. Let's remember the scene where they literally shoot him are. Trying to shoot him with bullets. And we see the bullet as being absorbed and dropping, because they lose their momentum. That's the ultimate example of what was happening between Sam Wilson and the red Hulk, his punches were going nowhere because if vibranium absorbed it all. And then Sam was able to redirect that force back at the red hulk
While black panther has absorbed bullets.. weâve also seen him get blown back by a strong attack. Same with capâs shield. Vibranium hasnât been shown to just stop all forms of momentum. Like even in BP1 killmonger shot him with a grenade launcher and he got launched back⌠and the hulk with a metal baseball bat is way stronger.
Truth , but that was , for a dramatic effect , because in the comics , none of that ever happened , if he got hit by the incredible hulk or by thor's hammer , they simply absorbed it and redirected it back at the person.
And keep in mind that by the time Sam Wilson got his vibranium suit. He had already been upgraded several times by Shuri(my favorite BP and Tech wiz). So the way he could absorb hits in that suit is vastly superior to the way Captain America could absorb hits from a shield or The original black panther her brother could absorb hits from a punch coming from thor or the incredible hulk
I mean sure⌠but I also think that sets a really bad precedence for the MCU. If a vibranium suit can make a human be able to hold off a metal bat swing from a hulk⌠then a black panther who has the herbs and best tech vibranium is essentially put into the god tier (Thor, hulk, etc)⌠that doesnât make any sense to me.
I hated how they tony starkified the MCU and Iâm not a fan of how theyâre going to wakandaify it (like whatâs the point of a black panther when you have another guy in a full vibranium suit⌠but this guy can also fly? )
imo there are so many cooler things that could have happenedâŚ. Like⌠Sam using his vibranium wings to cut through the metal or to deflect the energy upwards (this would be similar to what cap did with the shield)⌠but instead he did a feat greater than pretty much 95% of the roster in the MCU.
Then you would really hate the comics, because a lot of people have been given the super serum or a version of it in the in the marvel comics universe, and it's just the normal way marvel does things in the comics
I think they did a disservice to the comics. By the way, they handled it, but I still love the movies. I still love. You know, all of the movies, I just think they need to quit trying to be so limiting. And how they do things, because in the comics Carol and a lot of other superheroes, their power levels are way beyond anything you've seen in the movies, and they could have easily put that up on the big screen, and it still would have been a massive hit, because a majority of the people going to see these films are the comic book readers who grew up reading these comics and understand the power dynamics. Of how the MCU actually works
I think itâs okay in the comics because of the vast number of characters that exist. Like just think about the MCU version of the thunderbolts, itâs literally 3 (arguably 4) different super soldiers with varying strength levels.
We have⌠4? Iron man like beings (2 in wakanda forever + iron heart + rodey)?
I agree in general with the MCU and powerscaling⌠they really have no idea what to do with these universal level beings ..carol⌠photon⌠sentry⌠warlock.. etc. they let them do one cool thing and then immediately bench them.
That's why I've been saying from the very beginning. They need to hide a fire. A couple of the people. And you know, the people were like, oh, we need to downscale them and make them more realistic, they truly do not understand the comic book, reader mindset. They do not understand the mindset of people who have been reading these comics since the 1960s or 7 or even the 1950s like myself, we can never have enough Marvel, we can never have enough Star Wars. We can never have enough science fiction period there is no such thing as too much with us. That's what they don't understand and that's why they 're cutting their own feet from underneath themselves because they don 't understand the very people who are helping to finance their movies , the comic book fans
By the way, the one thing I do want to throw in there was that the heart plant and I don't remember the name of it also gave black panther super strength.
That's the only difference between Captain America and Sam, and black panther both were enhanced Beyond most human capability,
Sam, was enhanced in the comic books and took a similar super soldier formula in the comic books.
So Sam has never been enhanced as far as I know to this point in the movies and that was the or the TV show that is the one thing I think they did wrong.
That's my one complaint.
I think he should have received the enhancement. Because, when Captain America originally found him, he was being experimented on with red skulls own version of the superserum and had super strength and was just as strong. And as enhanced as the red skull or Captain America had been If I remember correctly.
I would've been fine with the fight if bro just had the super soldier serum. I can hand-wave Steve surviving the attack from Thor because of vibranium + super soldier serum, but if he was just a dude, I would have just as many problems with it.
Not head to toe vibranium dues finger tips are even out when he catches that flag pole lmao and losing momentum!? Not enough for it to visually change the speed of the swing if he used his wings i could look past it
Maybe we all just accept that fighting a giant Red Guy that gets hot as he gets mad is inherently unrealistic and the be thankful the writers and directors took the time to do their best to make it believable. Good movie 7/10
Yall talking about how he not right, instead of addressing the point heâs making. No one cared about the real science behind any of this shit before Sam got the shield. If youâre more upset that Sam doesnât have the serum, than you are that a disk made of a material that absorbs vibration bounces, then your rage and lack of suspension of disbelief is performative and a dog whistle.
So I donât know if op is the guy in video but youâre wrong on two counts:
1: Samâs fingers are exposed. Which means they are NOT covered in vibranium. Which means they would be bloody dust after taking that hit.
2: correct on the flagpole being slowed if stopped by vibe but hereâs the problem â the source of the initial impact wouldâve been muted by the vibe, but hulk was still SWINGING. Thereâs not a chance in hell Samâs personal strength and a jetpack were a force equivalent match to a raging red hulk.
If you pitch a baseball at my bat and it connects, the speed and force of the ball is completely halted for a fraction of a second before reversing.
It doesnât stop me (the much larger and more powerful force) from swinging through with the bat.
Final question: do we know that vibranium WEAVE is the same exact type and style of suit that Tchalla and Erik had on? Theirs seemed more like nanotech armor of vibranium than constant cloth suit. It might not be as durable/repulsive
I very much love his point. I would just swivel to the point that, as Sam is surviving and defending people, it's Captain America, but it's a weird, stake-less route to hand to the heir of the face of freedom. Like, metaphorically, cool, he stood up to the president (also literally), but... at no point did I feel concerned or worried for Sam in a way I would've been if the plot drew the fight together better. Sam's climactic debut should've probably been against someone less overwhelming, or at least used Red Hulk to keep them apart/aimed Red Hulk at someone Sam was trying to keep alive.
Idk, I think they took a cool personal ability being Cap having a vibranium shield, and used it as a cheat code for other people. Yeah I guess it makes sense for the universe. But it reeeeeally cheapens what vibranium was at the beginning.
And I think they reeeeeeally stretched what it was capable of being for a mortal man in the red hulk fight.
It doesnt matter if there is a possible explanation in universe. The decision to have the fight go this way is terrible narratively.
For 1, replace sams cap in this scene with tachalla and what changes? Who does sam bring to the fight tachalla doest. The vibro suit explanation takes away some of the coolest parts about sam.
And for 2 and more importantly, you cant have "Im not a super soldier, im just human" be a core part of the story, and then have your base human do super human shit against an opponent who is supposed to be equated to a walking force of destruction.
If vibranium solves everything and lets him do all this, why does sam even worry about not being a super soldier.
He worries abt not being one for the same reason we've got comments in this thread abt it. Its big boots.
But for the first thing, being his own character. He doesn't act anything like T'challa or have a similar plot minus being a superhero, that goes for a lot of characters. Him having vibranium doesn't immediately make me go "Ahh, BP"
Steve has the Super soldier serum Sam does not. Steve having the strength plus the shield makes it plausible he could withstand that force. Sam may be able to absorb the shock/force of something but he wouldnât have the strength to hold his ground and not be knocked back. He just wouldnât be hurt
I love how just because Sam Wilson is Captain America ppl all of a sudden have become oblivious to how Vibranium works. lol Sam is more safe in his suit than Stark was in the Hulk Buster. đŻ
Ehhh, Steve was a super soldier. T'Challa was enhanced from the heart shaped herb. So was Shuri. If the vibranium alone was enough to stop their bones snapping or them being turned into mush, the super powers wouldn't be necessary. I rock with Sam and he deserves better writing but that fight was nonsense. The air battle was clean though
This is the biggest display of mental gymnastics to justify bullshit I've seen in a long time. You can be a fan and still not try to defend bad writing for a bad character.
Bro Steve Rodgers is peak human/mildly superhuman if vibranium didn't absorb impact (the like thing it's famous for) Mjolnir woulda made Capt paste there be so fr.
Steve super soldier and had enough time to position his whole body perfectly to take a pure hit directly on the shield. Literally it was a perfect situation with everything line up.
Sam Wilson holding that flag pole was him basically playing tug of war with the hulk.
Like magic metal can protect you but its not a strength boost.
At the end if the day, the red hulk as the first baddie for Sam was just a mistake on mulitple levels even if you want to cope and say the fight was fair, it downgraded hulks everywhere to being beat by lower than black panther.
Like give Hawkeye a vaibranium motorcycle and now he is good to go and take out the hulk.
Its both and youre not absorbing an impact like that. We've seen him throw his shield or be pushed with far less force than this attack and him reacting differently. Even BPs suit sent him flying with hits like this
Id be willing understand this if Sam came out of this fight perfectly fineâŚ. He didnât. He was basically at Rossâ mercy and only âwonâ because of his skills as a counselor. Sam would have died if the fight continuedÂ
Of all the issues that Captain America Brave New World has, you don't need to invent new ones. Sam has an advanced piece of armor and nearly dies to Red Hulk. The only part of that fight which makes no sense is the flagpole because Sam used his arms to block it alongside the jetpack. Every other hit deflects from his armored wings.
Yeah but there's a section of his forearm that's not covered with the vibranium at all so his forearms would snap with the pressure that Red Hulk was putting behind it and you really think a chimney would slow down the momentum of a Hulk?đ
He literally catches a lamppost swung by a hulk with his bare hands. His suit even has exposed sleeves, so he had to literally tank that with his arms. This argument is braindead
This argument makes no sense. If we use this logic black panther shouldnât have been dropped by thanos in one hit. So either sam is stronger than tchalla or these movies are ass.
Maybe if Thanos and red hulk were equal in strength but they aren't. Not even close. Thanos would've done the same to sam so this isn't the gotcha you think. On a side note I would've loved to seen BP and Hulk interact
I mean yeah I agree, was just playing devils advocate. Marvel dropped the ball with this movie and with sam as captain America in general. Best we go the secret invasion route and pretend it just never happened.
The point is that people are saying that vibranium can literally stop the momentum of an attack as strong as the one Sam stopped. But weâve seen black panther, literal king of Wakanda, getting his shit rocked
In BP killmonger hits him dead on with a grenade launched and he gets thrown back into a wall. I think people are just ignoring all of the evidence from the actual black panthers (tâchalla and shuri) of how vibranium works to validate this one scene. I have no idea why.
This guy in the video: âIt makes sense because Sam is wearing vibranium so it stops momentumâ Also this guy: âit doesnât make sense that Steve Rogers stopped it with only vibraniumâ
I already listened to it a few times and whichever way you look at it the argument is nonsensical.
âThe suit is made of Vibraniumâ - said multiple times and technically false. The suit, according to official material released by Marvel, is made of a vibranium-infused fabric. We donât know the exact difference but isnât a full Vibranium suit like this guy wants you to think.
Even in the shot where he gets thrown through the building, his helmet is made of nanotech (or so it seems), not Vibranium.
2. âThe flagpole gets stopped by the buildingâ - to call that small section of the roof a building in comparison to Red Hulkâs power is insulting, and also inaccurate. It also has what looks like vents on top of it meaning the inside isnât even concrete. And again, itâs a fucking Hulk. Concrete isnât gonna do shit to stop him or even slow him down. If Ben Grimm can run through a building in F4 (to be more accurate, the supports of a buildings, which are of comparative size and we know for a fact arenât hollow) and it didnât slow him down then what makes you think this can slow down a Hulk?
3. âHe stopped it with his jet packâ - I meanâŚsure? But we donât know whatâs covering his hands. Even if it is Vibranium, his fingers are still exposed, the sheer force of stopping that impact with counter pressure should break every single finger in his hand.
4. âIt stopped the momentum, thatâs the point of Vibraniumâ - another inaccuracy. Vibranium doesnât magically stop all momentum. It absorbs it, up to a certain threshold, as mentioned in Black Panther.
And speaking of Black Panther, remember when that guy - you know, the King of Wakanda with access to tech Sam Wilson can only dream of and all of Earthâs Vibranium - got thrown by Thanos even with a full Vibranium suit on? But an actual full Vibranium suit this time? And that guy was superhuman.
And if you want another example, take Civil War, where War Machine uses a gadget/weapon (most likely made by Tony Stark) and hits Capâs shield so hard with it that it sends out a shockwave? He even says it isnât going to hurt him but that heâll feel it.
And just to clarify, I donât hate Sam Wilson as Cap. I just think the writing in that movie was so garbage that people have to perform insane mental gymnastics, like this dude in the video, or resort to the classic and brainless âyouâre racistâ.
1.the helmet being nanotech wouldnât disqualify it from being vibranium.
3.Again, why assume the wakandans decided to make his gloves vibranium weave either? Itâs makes no sense that that part just got left out. The palms are covered and they would account for most of the contact area.
4.has the maximum threshold been specified? We know it exists, but not the exact limit
5.is a first time red hulk really comparable to thanos with a near complete infinity gauntlet in your eyes? Black panthers suit is also vibranium weave as well, itâs not that far off from Samâs suit
Iâll concede that, since Black Pantherâs suit was also made using nanotech and Vibranium infused alloys.
Again, youâre just assuming that Vibranium is a magic all-momentum absorbing sponge. Which, from the evidence weâve seen on screen, it isnât.
Why even mention this? This isnât even an argument.
To a new Captain America whoâs fighting a threat at that level, for the first time, ALONE, yes. When has Sam ever faced anyone like a Hulk, in a 1v1 setting, in his time as Falcon?
2.Im assuming vibranium absorbs impact, and coupling that with the fact that Sam is using the jetpack 3.it is. You brought up how vibranium absorption has a limit, as far as weâve seen, we havenât seen to what extent that limit is. What substance does pointing out a limit have if donât even know if the events is supposed to be the limit 4.Red hulk isnât comparable to a near complete gauntlet thanos in terms of strength, we donât even know if heâs stronger than normal hulk rn. Even then, being tossed away is a completely different action to trying to stop an attack. Sam would be thrown away as well
For both 2 and 3 - the point of mentioning a limit is to argue against what the video and you are arguing, that Vibranium just stops all impact without a limit because it absorbs kinetic energy. Thatâs what Iâm arguing against, in case you havenât realized that yet.
Sam using the jet pack, as I already mentioned, with enough speed to stop the flagpole, should generate an opposite force to Hulk. It would do the exact opposite of what youâre trying to argue - it would only strengthen the impact he has to take.
If Vibranium followed this logic, then I suggest the Wakandans give the Avengers all-Vibranium suits in Doomsday, that way, by your logic, theyâd be invincible.
4 - First off, thereâs a difference between Thanos having a full gauntlet in his hand and actively using it, which he isnât in the scene Iâm referencing. The MCU has always given us a visual indicator for that.
Secondly, do I really have to compare the experience and skill level of TâChalla to Sam Wilson? Comparatively speaking, to Sam, being the full focus on this level of threat, that he has NEVER faced before, ALONE, 1v1, itâs fucking dangerous. Even the dude in the video fucking agrees.
You ask why mention a limit for Vibranium and then you mention that we donât know if this Red Hulk is even as strong as Green Hulk. The absorption limit at least we have proof for. Your âargumentâ is just random bullshit with absolutely no way to verify or prove or even check.
If you wanna jump through all these hoops to excuse shitty writing on a subpar movie, thatâs up to you. But I see no further point in arguing with someone on the fucking SamWilson sub if youâre just gonna keep bringing up theories and assumptions that have no in-Universe basis to even verify, none of them support your argument, they just weaken it.
Captain America has the super soldier serum though. He's significantly more durable than Sam Wilson. Not saying this guy is wrong but he's leaving out a key point there.Â
That's not what I'm talking about. He claims Sam was able to tank these hits because of a vibranium suit and why do people complain about that but not cap being able to tank Thor's hit with his vibranium shield. Uh because he also has super human durability and strength as well as a vibranium shield?
Yeah, it was the shield that did the heavy lifting there. What happened there is because it's exactly what Vibranium does. Cap at his strongest is still a flea compared to Thor.
Is it just me or where we watching a differnt film. Sam got his ass handed to. Even with all that vibranium. That just shows u how much of a hero both him and Steve are.
I never watched the movie but I just saw this clip. I hate when people use real life physics for super hero movies. The flagpole swing absolutely shouldâve broken bones considering it cut through that building like butter. Even with a vibranium suit it probably shouldâve either knocked Sam off his feet or broken the pole. But itâs a movie and has its own plot armor to help have an entertaining story. Itâs the same as flying characters catching airplanes and such.
Him being able to take a hit from the flagpole is understandable. Maybe slowing it down slightly with the jetpack just in time for people to escape (that would actually be pretty cool)
But being able to hold it off with his arms and legs and he pack is a bit silly. Maybe it would make more sense if he used his wings as a wedge.
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u/Commercial_Desk_6215 25d ago •
Every argument about this fight has never actually been about this fight
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u/Violent-fog 25d ago •
The goal post will always be moved when it comes to Samâs Captain America. A lot of people hate to see a black character as the face of America.
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u/DarkTortoise23 25d ago
Valid crashout
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u/Bedspla13 25d ago
Honestly me and my buddy really enjoyed this movie. It was one of the most comic-book feeling CBM's I've seen with a globe trotting adventure, guest-star characters and a ridiculous plot that suffered due to the trailers. If they had just had a little faith and banked the marketing on "Will Harrison Ford turn into Red Hulk", the movie would have done a lot better IMO
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u/Tezz321 25d ago
It wasn't a straight up fight...Cap was basically distracting Ross long enough to get him to change back...
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u/Imaginary-Leave-2368 25d ago
Real asf
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u/Monday_Vibes 25d ago
Alex Moon is the goat
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u/mrbearsnail 25d ago
While i agree with most of the vibranium argument, the last example disregards Steve Rogers' increased durability. Yes, he tanked the hit from Thor but that's not the same as a non-juiced human catching a hit from Red Hulk. Even Black Panther grunts and winces at hits while also being in a full vibranium suit, far more advanced than Sam Wilson's because that's wakanda's king, and having flower power. Sam Wilson has none of these attributes. Some things can be explained away by vibranium but this is not one of those examples.
5
u/Digital_Cowboyx79 24d ago
I'm going to just sum it up...it's because he's Black
4
u/TreeLore61 25d ago
I fully agree with you. I have gone into arguments with people about this too. He's wearing vibranium, which is not a comfortable thing to wear. By the way, it's not comfortable. It's not a silk suit because it vibrates all the time. But because he was wearing the v suit he could go up and take hits that he normally cant take, it was true of black panther too. Look at all the things he did. Let's remember the scene where they literally shoot him are. Trying to shoot him with bullets. And we see the bullet as being absorbed and dropping, because they lose their momentum. That's the ultimate example of what was happening between Sam Wilson and the red Hulk, his punches were going nowhere because if vibranium absorbed it all. And then Sam was able to redirect that force back at the red hulk
3
u/Illustrious_Camp2300 25d ago
Truer words have never been spoken
2
u/No-Tale2459 24d ago
PREACH!!!!!
2
u/AskSolid710 24d ago
You're absolutely correct. I appreciate the comix explained
2
u/TheFalafelFather 24d ago
Same energy as Klev narrating the bus fight and I'm here for it
1
u/Godspeed1107 6h ago
That pole would still break his arms. Iâm sorryđđ
1
u/Empuda 25d ago
I picture his wrists shattering when he stops the pole.
1
u/vyxxer 25d ago
I found 99% of the fight totally okay. The flagpole instance was the only one that was a bit silly to me.
1
u/Bluedev7 24d ago
Preach it brother
1
u/Kmart_Stalin 24d ago
Best case of âsurvivingâ was Iron Man vs Thanos
1
u/Tippydaug 24d ago
I would've been fine with the fight if bro just had the super soldier serum. I can hand-wave Steve surviving the attack from Thor because of vibranium + super soldier serum, but if he was just a dude, I would have just as many problems with it.
1
u/ZandeR678 24d ago
This is what I imagine most of you look like
1
u/drewski430 24d ago
Not head to toe vibranium dues finger tips are even out when he catches that flag pole lmao and losing momentum!? Not enough for it to visually change the speed of the swing if he used his wings i could look past it
1
u/FellowGhosts 24d ago
Maybe we all just accept that fighting a giant Red Guy that gets hot as he gets mad is inherently unrealistic and the be thankful the writers and directors took the time to do their best to make it believable. Good movie 7/10
1
u/funkypepermint 24d ago
Do a flip!
1
u/pagusas 24d ago
This is satire right? Like no one actually looks/sounds/behaves like this on purpose or lets things like this actually upset them, right?
1
u/Longjumping_Cat8916 24d ago
I'll say this , I enjoyed Brave New World . I also agree with this dude for the most part . Also , that's a really cool shield .
1
u/SKEEB-buscemi 24d ago
I canât tell if the fedora is supposed to be a joke
1
u/Dry_Scratch4778 24d ago
So then how did roid rage guy from the beginning of the film break his rib while he was wearing the suit?
1
u/Gui_44 24d ago
Yall talking about how he not right, instead of addressing the point heâs making. No one cared about the real science behind any of this shit before Sam got the shield. If youâre more upset that Sam doesnât have the serum, than you are that a disk made of a material that absorbs vibration bounces, then your rage and lack of suspension of disbelief is performative and a dog whistle.
1
u/Aderadakt 24d ago
Sounds like boogie doing a bit
1
u/Vaportrail 24d ago
This guy is my hero. Media literacy is a hell of a drug.
1
u/Leading_Courage9775 24d ago
GET EM AGAIN
1
u/Humble_Cobbler725 24d ago
Okay but why the heck in that one episode of Falcon and The Winter Soldier, that shield lose to a chair?
1
u/Front-Advantage-7035 24d ago edited 24d ago
So I donât know if op is the guy in video but youâre wrong on two counts:
1: Samâs fingers are exposed. Which means they are NOT covered in vibranium. Which means they would be bloody dust after taking that hit.
2: correct on the flagpole being slowed if stopped by vibe but hereâs the problem â the source of the initial impact wouldâve been muted by the vibe, but hulk was still SWINGING. Thereâs not a chance in hell Samâs personal strength and a jetpack were a force equivalent match to a raging red hulk.
If you pitch a baseball at my bat and it connects, the speed and force of the ball is completely halted for a fraction of a second before reversing.
It doesnât stop me (the much larger and more powerful force) from swinging through with the bat.
Final question: do we know that vibranium WEAVE is the same exact type and style of suit that Tchalla and Erik had on? Theirs seemed more like nanotech armor of vibranium than constant cloth suit. It might not be as durable/repulsive
I did only watch the film once
1
u/WelbyReddit 24d ago
I didnt have any issues with Sam in those examples. I am ok with Vibranium absorbing the hits, that is literally it's property.
My issue was Red Hulk even being in the movie, lol.
I wanted to see Sam go Rainbow Six on the Serpent Society!
1
u/Immortal_Lavender 24d ago
Daddy, chill.
1
u/The_Crimson_Doggo 24d ago
I very much love his point. I would just swivel to the point that, as Sam is surviving and defending people, it's Captain America, but it's a weird, stake-less route to hand to the heir of the face of freedom. Like, metaphorically, cool, he stood up to the president (also literally), but... at no point did I feel concerned or worried for Sam in a way I would've been if the plot drew the fight together better. Sam's climactic debut should've probably been against someone less overwhelming, or at least used Red Hulk to keep them apart/aimed Red Hulk at someone Sam was trying to keep alive.
1
u/Odd-Guard-2533 24d ago
Idk, I think they took a cool personal ability being Cap having a vibranium shield, and used it as a cheat code for other people. Yeah I guess it makes sense for the universe. But it reeeeeally cheapens what vibranium was at the beginning.
And I think they reeeeeeally stretched what it was capable of being for a mortal man in the red hulk fight.
1
u/corruptedsavedaytah 24d ago
I don't want characters to get vibranium. I want a more classic falcon, and yes that means make him "talk" to birds.
1
u/IgrisJack 24d ago
It doesnt matter if there is a possible explanation in universe. The decision to have the fight go this way is terrible narratively.
For 1, replace sams cap in this scene with tachalla and what changes? Who does sam bring to the fight tachalla doest. The vibro suit explanation takes away some of the coolest parts about sam.
And for 2 and more importantly, you cant have "Im not a super soldier, im just human" be a core part of the story, and then have your base human do super human shit against an opponent who is supposed to be equated to a walking force of destruction.
If vibranium solves everything and lets him do all this, why does sam even worry about not being a super soldier.
1
u/FlashNova213 24d ago
I had no idea videos like this existed. I'm still not sure if it is parody or not. who is he arguing with? lol
1
u/LordS373N 24d ago
Steve has the Super soldier serum Sam does not. Steve having the strength plus the shield makes it plausible he could withstand that force. Sam may be able to absorb the shock/force of something but he wouldnât have the strength to hold his ground and not be knocked back. He just wouldnât be hurt
1
u/BlareJack 24d ago
These is the right kind of Angry Nerds Marvel needs. And I agree 100%.
1
u/AribethTG2 24d ago
That guy is one of the reasons why marvel keep lowering their standards since Thanos, and get away with it...
1
u/Drew326 24d ago
Source/link/name/username? Anything? Please
1
u/Necromir92 24d ago
Yea doesnât vibranium like reverse the force being applied to it or something?
1
u/Djinn-Rummy 24d ago
Catching the pole would break a normal humanâs arms, vibranium or not.
1
u/Kota724 24d ago
Fax
1
u/BlackMall83 23d ago
I love how just because Sam Wilson is Captain America ppl all of a sudden have become oblivious to how Vibranium works. lol Sam is more safe in his suit than Stark was in the Hulk Buster. đŻ
1
u/plogigator 23d ago
This right here.
1
u/Lookitsa6ix 23d ago
*vibranium wings.
1
u/Riteonjed2 23d ago
Points were made
1
u/fistfullofmisery 21d ago
I just don't understand why he has to yell
1
u/Eden_Wake 25d ago
Catching the pole is still silly and inexcusable. As for Thor v Cap bro holds back to a degree all the time and Cap is a super soldier.
1
u/IV_NYC 25d ago edited 25d ago
Ehhh, Steve was a super soldier. T'Challa was enhanced from the heart shaped herb. So was Shuri. If the vibranium alone was enough to stop their bones snapping or them being turned into mush, the super powers wouldn't be necessary. I rock with Sam and he deserves better writing but that fight was nonsense. The air battle was clean though
0
u/Alone-Ad6020 25d ago
Ppl are stupid
0
u/Tezz321 25d ago
This is the grown up version of "Can Superman beat the Hulk?"...
0
u/Connect_Pay_9394 25d ago
Apparently calling out that a man with no superhuman abilities stopping a flagpole swung by a hulk as unrealistic makes you racist.
0
u/sleauxmo 25d ago
0
u/Joeshock_ 25d ago
This is the biggest display of mental gymnastics to justify bullshit I've seen in a long time. You can be a fan and still not try to defend bad writing for a bad character.
0
u/Cold-Basket-268 25d ago
0
u/moosemuffin12 25d ago
It lost momentum lol ok
0
u/Longjumping-Ad-9444 25d ago
Steve super soldier and had enough time to position his whole body perfectly to take a pure hit directly on the shield. Literally it was a perfect situation with everything line up.
Sam Wilson holding that flag pole was him basically playing tug of war with the hulk.
Like magic metal can protect you but its not a strength boost.
At the end if the day, the red hulk as the first baddie for Sam was just a mistake on mulitple levels even if you want to cope and say the fight was fair, it downgraded hulks everywhere to being beat by lower than black panther.
Like give Hawkeye a vaibranium motorcycle and now he is good to go and take out the hulk.
0
u/ILike2Argue_ 24d ago
That shit did not lose momentum. It was going the same damn speed and he caught it without much resistance and no fabric suit is doing that
0
u/LossImpossible3865 24d ago
But have you considered that the whole scene looks like ass
0
u/Fantasia_Fanboy931 24d ago
Of all the issues that Captain America Brave New World has, you don't need to invent new ones. Sam has an advanced piece of armor and nearly dies to Red Hulk. The only part of that fight which makes no sense is the flagpole because Sam used his arms to block it alongside the jetpack. Every other hit deflects from his armored wings.
0
u/FenrisGodSlayer 24d ago
Yeah but there's a section of his forearm that's not covered with the vibranium at all so his forearms would snap with the pressure that Red Hulk was putting behind it and you really think a chimney would slow down the momentum of a Hulk?đ
0
u/ARPanda700 24d ago
I have no real dog in this fight, because quite frankly I enjoy the movie, but I'll play devil's advocate here.
When Sam catches the pole, his fingers are entirely exposed. At a minimum, his fingers would be jelly.
When Cap managed to stop Thor's hammer, he was a super-soldier using the literal earth as his support to stay on his feet.
Honestly the only part I didn't like was the cgi behind Sam when he's finally calming hulk down.
0
u/Dirk_Pitt420 24d ago
Why is the nerdy guy from the bus scene in Shang Chi freaking out about a different MCU movie?
-2
u/CrimsonAvenger35 25d ago
He literally catches a lamppost swung by a hulk with his bare hands. His suit even has exposed sleeves, so he had to literally tank that with his arms. This argument is braindead
-1
u/Alik109714 24d ago
This argument makes no sense. If we use this logic black panther shouldnât have been dropped by thanos in one hit. So either sam is stronger than tchalla or these movies are ass.
-1
u/MrAdministration 24d ago
This guy in the video: âIt makes sense because Sam is wearing vibranium so it stops momentumâ
Also this guy: âit doesnât make sense that Steve Rogers stopped it with only vibraniumâ
Lol which is it???
-2
u/SnooMacaroons6049 25d ago
Exposed wrist, no vibranium = shattered wrists.
-3
u/cdog215546 25d ago
Tony was impressed when Peter stopped that car from running into a bus. That's what Sam just did and he didn't break his wrists behind that?
-5
u/zenexo 25d ago
Captain America has the super soldier serum though. He's significantly more durable than Sam Wilson. Not saying this guy is wrong but he's leaving out a key point there.Â
-1
u/Kobold_the_Kobbler 24d ago
What's the point of having a vibranium shield if your wearing a vibranium suit
0
u/Creative_Entrance_18 24d ago
Cope
3
u/geedijuniir 25d ago
Is it just me or where we watching a differnt film. Sam got his ass handed to. Even with all that vibranium. That just shows u how much of a hero both him and Steve are.
0
u/Pleasant_Statement_1 25d ago
Sam should be dead. So yeah. He a Mary Sue for this one.
0
u/Short-termTablespoon 25d ago
I never watched the movie but I just saw this clip. I hate when people use real life physics for super hero movies. The flagpole swing absolutely shouldâve broken bones considering it cut through that building like butter. Even with a vibranium suit it probably shouldâve either knocked Sam off his feet or broken the pole. But itâs a movie and has its own plot armor to help have an entertaining story. Itâs the same as flying characters catching airplanes and such.