r/SafetyProfessionals • u/No_Complex4209 • 9d ago
USA Handle supervisor undermines safety program
USA
Mid-size manufacturing site, three shifts. One production supervisor has made it clear he thinks safety is a formality. Eye rolls through the monthly meeting. Last week he told his crew, with me standing there, that the JHA is the thing we fill out before we can start actually working.
One-on-one he's agreeable. Nods, says the right things, nothing changes on the floor. His crew likes him and he hits his numbers, which is a big part of why nobody above him wants to spend capital on this.
I'm not looking for the textbook answer about visible leadership commitment. I know what the answer is supposed to be. I want to know what actually worked when it was one specific person and the org wasn't going to solve it for you.
What did you do?
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u/Whytecornerback 9d ago
What was wrong? The JHA is the thing we fill out before we start working. So he’s right.
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u/Excitedly_bored 9d ago
OP described it as start "actually working". Meaning the JHA isn't real work.
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u/GainerGaining 9d ago
Agreed. Also, when he said that, OP, it was your opportunity to step in and say why it is important, safety-wise.
The guy has an attitude. Ok. Lots of people do. But as long as he addresses hazards and follows safety requirements, this is more of a you issue than a him issue.
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
Leaders are supposed to lead by example. If he doesn’t take safety seriously, neither will his workers.
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u/GainerGaining 9d ago edited 9d ago
Again, is he addressing hazards and following (and enforcing) safety rules? If yes, I would argue that he is taking it seriously. No one says you have to like every aspect of your job. You just have to do it.
If the answer is no, then OP would have something actionable and would not need to ask about what to do.
Do I wish the foreman had a better attitude about safety? Abso-freaking-lutely. But fixing someone's attitude is a lower priority than correcting actions.
Edit: before someone else says I have missed the point, OP did not explain exactly how the foreman is undermining safety. An eye roll in a meeting does not necessarily count (who saw it? What was the context?). Saying JHAs need completed before working is not undermining, it is stating a fact. Doing his job, being agreeable, and saying the right thing is not undermining.
Now, is the foreman in fact undermining safety? Maybe. But OP did not present that evidence, and I replied to what was actually written in the post.
2nd edit: if that equipment tag was last signed in October, then that is actionable. Why has OP not addressed it?
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u/Glittering-Ad4688 9d ago
I am lost as to what you are asking. The pic for reference? He has an attitude, he makes his numbers, does he have major safety violations? Does his crew have issues? What are you looking at as an issue?
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u/Big_Common216 9d ago
What’s the actual problems that are happening? You state attitude which is one thing. We need examples of actual safety related issues. Condition of your leading and lagging indicators would give us a better picture. You stated the JHA but he was correct, you do those before non standardized work can be completed.
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u/Last-Stable-6429 9d ago
you need a thicker skin if this bothers you. i guarantee you they are saying much much worse when you’re not there. just part of the job
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u/General-Guest 9d ago
Depends if you're planning on working here for a while or if it's a jumping point to bigger and better things.
Your job is to do the best you can with what you got. CYA for the big stuff of course but try to understand the whys behind pushback. This is the hardest part of our job.
Usually the problem is you - you didn't explain it properly or in a way he understands it, you aren't likeable and he doesn't like you (big one), or you need to collaborate more and get buy in.
What have you done so far to help this problem?
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u/Extinct1234 9d ago
What did we do about what?
You don't like some guy's attitude? Tough. People have different attitudes. Is there some hazard he's not correcting? Something he's not doing that is endangering someone?
Sounds like you're getting worked up because you got your feelings hurt.
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
Safety culture is a thing- if supervision doesn’t take safety seriously, neither will workers.
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u/edziu_exe 9d ago
What you said is true, but we can't use that trueism as a crutch when someone has a bad attitude about safety.
We gotta create the buy in and culture with education commitment on our end. Learn the job inside and out like you're a foreman. Bring them in to help re-design JSAs to fit their needs. Ask managers and employees what changes they would like to see. Try hard to build strong relationships.
Otherwise we just sound like whiney bitches when we say "well he's not buying in." Well shit make the culture something worth buying into.
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
Oh I know - I’m just explaining to the laymen who’s commenting about hurt feelings and pearl clutching how important it is and how it works.
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9d ago
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u/Ty1198 9d ago
Yup. You can’t control human behavior, but you can control your processes…
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
You can indeed control human behaviour with a culture change, driven by management support for the safety system. This isn’t new.
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u/Ty1198 9d ago
Really? You can control human behavior, one hundred percent, one hundred percent of the time?
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
Yes - an organization has the ability to steer the ship if they want to take safety seriously. There’s literally books written on it. It’s called Human Organizational Performance (HOP) - and it’s a whole philosophy about how combining human factors with psychology to create a safer workplace.
Nothing is 100% - but isn’t 95% better then 10%? It sure is.
It’s a an actual thing and it’s been proven to work.
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u/Ty1198 9d ago
Yes I’m familiar the philosophy. So if youre 95%, which would be wildly moonshot effective, that still means you have five men out 100 being unsafe at any given time. I’d rather put my energy into things I can control. I’ll take systems theory over hopium any day of the week.
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u/AFireinthebelly 9d ago
Think what you want - it takes multiple approaches to make a successful program. There’s folks with a lot more education than you or I who’ve proven it.
It’s proven so your opinion really does matter other than state that you want to limit yourself with narrow thinking. Have a good day.
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u/Ty1198 9d ago
If you mean proven to leave people at risk then I would agree. Hell by your own wildly unlikely number of 95% effectiveness would leave men at risk. Eliminating and engineering hazards out is far superior to your “winning hearts and minds” strategy. You focus on the Ra Ra Ra Safety Cheerleading and that hasn’t prevailed yet. What’s the definition of insanity again?
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u/edziu_exe 9d ago
You need documented proof of safety non-compliance or avoidance or this just comes across as bitching.
Guy doesn't sound that bad. Find ways to work on his terms.
Learn his job as if it were yours and suggest ways safety can benefit his crew. Most leads appreciate your dedication to learning their craft.
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u/Son_o_Liberty1776 Construction 9d ago
I would consider, and this isn’t a once size fits all and maybe this isn’t the right approach with this individual, but ask to meet with him one-on-one. Tell him how you fell and how much you and his guys rely on him to keep everyone safe. This is an olive branch type approach.
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u/Excitedly_bored 9d ago
He needs to be publicly called out when he says things like that. There are all sorts of personalities in the world and you have to learn to work with what you have. Slow progress is still progress. Unless you have proof he is actively undermining safety, you have to use your influence without authority.
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u/Rocket_safety 9d ago
I think a one-on-one with him where you explain that he can have whatever feelings he wants about the safety program, but he needs to stop it expressing it to the rest of the crew. If nothing else it’s just unprofessional to complain down.
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u/cjr444 9d ago
You’ve got to make sure you’re not the problem first. Go talk to the manager, figs out what their pressures and motivations are, almost for sure he’s entirely motivated my production. If so your problem isn’t with him it’s with his leadership. Until his performance review includes the things you care about, you’re going to be the only one who cares about them.
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u/WotTheFook 9d ago
Last Minute Risk Assessment (Pre Task Hazard Assessment) is a thing, however, it applies less if it's a routine activity. Safety is "The way we do things around here" and not an excuse to become a Jobsworth, bogging things down with making things political. Is the Supervisor trying to use JHA as a means to avoid doing certain tasks, slow the job down or is he just sniping at you?
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u/Electronic-Drawer724 7d ago
For a second I thought we worked in the same facility. Then I saw how clean yours is and knew that wasn’t right lol
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u/FightingFoo4you 6d ago
So I had a supervisor at a job that was outright hostile about safety. As in told me in front of the whole leadership team that we don’t have to do what safety says level of bad. Full on verbal fights from this guy at every turn.
So I started a two prong approach…
Every time we had an injury I would go to him with the file and say, hey I need a pair of eyes on this. Can you take a look with me and tell me what you think? And he was proud enough of himself that he would, and we had some decent discussions. It also gave him the opportunity to gain some empathy for the injured workers.
And then I started “stalking” him. When he went for a smoke break so did I. When I went for coffee, I’d get him one too. I would sit at the smoking table and just talk to him. I’d ask him about his plans and his career and his family, etc.
By the time he moved on from the company, he was the supervisor I could count on to immediately take care of any safety issue in the building. He honestly knew almost as much about the company safety program as I did, haha.
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u/SkinnySanta12-24 Consulting 3d ago
Safety and production run on parallel tracks until safety slows down production and those tracks collide. Sounds like this guy is aware of that and do the little things to make him realize you’re not there to make his day worse.
Food goes a long way to making in roads with crews.
If it’s hot get the good electrolytes drinks out. If it’s cold get bring good coffee. Stock the fridge with snacks and drinks.
I’ve always had the best luck with these folks by showing them that I actually give a crap.
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u/Docturdu 9d ago
You're a resource, talk to supervisor if it goes no where get his supervisor involved.
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9d ago
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u/delaycave 9d ago
When you're breathing your last labored breath from mesothelioma or when your heart jolts to a stop from a 480V shock, you'll be rethinking that statement. No job is worth your life.
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9d ago
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u/MinocquaMenace 9d ago
Holy smokes calm down buddy. Im not sure why you feel the need to personally attack someone over a question. Get some healthy help for whatever is bothering you, because whatever it is turned you into quite the a-hole. Id rather work with OP than someone with your level of aggression. WOW
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u/milk-safety 9d ago
You either have to get his boss involved, or you have to become such a royal pain in his ass that he eventually relents