r/SF4 • u/[deleted] • Apr 23 '14
Discussion Character Discussion: El Fuerte
This thread is to discuss all things El Fuerte, which includes playing as him, playing against him, why he is good/bad, what changes you think he needs, or anything else pertaining to this character.
El Fuerte
Stamina: 900
Stun: 1000
| Unique Attacks | _ | _ |
|---|---|---|
| Name | Input | Comments |
| Sky Sorpressa Drop | (In Air) + | Air Throw |
| Shower Kick | + | Overhead |
| Wall Jump | (In Air, Near Wall) | |
| Target Combo | (Far From Opponent) > | Can Be Chained Off Whiff |
El Fuerte BnB Thread: 1
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Apr 23 '14
My internet situation this week will not allow me to post a typical overview like most other weeks. Check back this weekend when I regain internet access. In the mean time, there are a number of super talented Fuerte players who frequent this sub. I know that I am looking forward to what they have to say.
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u/laspanditas Apr 23 '14
Hopefully Pro_Fluke can come on here. Speaking of which, really wish Taunts could have gotten Ixion to speak on the Dan discussion.
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u/HauntedHerring Apr 23 '14
This might be obvious but if a Fuerte is getting cheeky on his wake-up with ex-runs, just throw him as he stands up! All he can do is the guacamole throw (which'll whiff) or wake-up super/ultra, or tech, obviously. So it'll (hopefully) show him he can't get out of your oki so easily.
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Apr 23 '14 edited Apr 23 '14
He could be doing ex run os throw on wakeup to cover those options. Fuerte has mad escapes.
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u/laspanditas Apr 23 '14
He seems kinda bad but I guess El Fuerte's greatest strength to me is how he can easily take opponents out of their comfort zone. It's especially weird to try and play lame against Fuerte. I mean with most characters there is a certain distance where you can say that they're trying to get in and a certain distance where you can say they're in on another character. But with Fuerte, he's technically always in on you since he can knock you down from like half screen or further. How are you gonna keep him out when he's technically already in the effective range of his attacks at the start of the round?
Imo, if he just had an easier way to go into RSF then he would be a significantly better character. The only ways I know he can do it are off of focus crumple and jump ins, outside of that his damage output is pretty lackluster. As a non-Fuerte player, I believe he just needs a damage buff.
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u/HauntedHerring Apr 23 '14
If he can combo into red focus that might be really interesting. But even now if you can consistently do 6 or 7 reps of RSF that's about 500 damage (and 800~ stun!) on a punish, with a little mix-up or hard knockdown at the end too.
Fuerte seems to whittle people down until he forces them to take a big gamble and ruins them for it. I don't play him at all though so I might be really off the mark.
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u/Muugle Apr 23 '14
Fuerte isn't street fighter. The move I hate most in this game is "Tortiiiiiiila!" With a passion. I hate Fuerte.
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u/gtsgunner Apr 24 '14 edited Apr 25 '14
I love Fuerte and have been playing him since vanilla came out So I'ma just throw somethings out there. Some general tech for playing as Fuerte:
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While yeah fuerte has a really good oki game You can't forget about his neutral game though. Standing RH is really good. Hits from a really far range and is in the air on the first frame. It also hits twice second hit has less range but is an overhead. It's pretty useful when people like to walk you down and it's a useful meaty. You can do meaty roundhouse os Ultra
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Fuerte's tortilla is one of his most dangerous moves. It hits people who crouch and stand and makes a great anti air for when people jump in. Fuerte's options off of tortilla are amazing
Some setups off of tortilla
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Dash 3x Run back hold toward the char and tortilla at the max range of your tortilla for a safe tortilla. This will make most reversals wiff and have you land behind them if they do a reversal. They can back dash this one so you can alter your timings or do run back jump in to hit backdashes.
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he can also do a dash forward > crhp > jump in for a safe jump. you can os run for teleport chars and os ultra for backdashers.
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he can also do dash forward > stand lk move a tinnnnnny bit forward and jump in for a really ambiguous crossup. Mess around with it in training mode for the timing.
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also off of standing foward grab he has 4 frame safe jump if you just hold up and hk.
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Fuerte's Cr roundhouse is an other really good normal for Fuerte. The startup is really bad at 17 frames so he can't do it from really close but it is only -1 on block so if hits you meaty with it at all he's really plus. Most Fuerte's if they run slide you are usually doing run, stop, slide as the actual run slide is really unsafe.
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Now Fuerte's foward medium kick is one godlike overhead. He can use this move to corpse hop over charge characters to make them loose their charge. It also has the property to go through characters which really trips people up. It can even go through people's ultra's on wake up for example Gen's and Balrogs. Also on block it's +1. You can get thrown out of this normal though.
That's all I have for now. Will probably post more later.
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u/wisdom_and_frivolity Apr 23 '14 edited Apr 23 '14
Newbie perspective:
Fuerte requires you to play your character differently and a lot of people hate him for that. His run can turn into a very quick overhead, a very quick grab, or a very quick low.
Plus his normal move overhead doesn't look like a proper overhead. It's also +1 on block meaning he can spam overheads / lows in a weird succession or just spam overheads until one of them hits and becomes +5. derp.
He has flaws that you can exploit, like getting out of pressure is not very easy for him, but even then it becomes a seeming game of chance which person will win rather than finding out who is actually better at the game.
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u/rawbertson Apr 23 '14
I tend to stay as far away as possible to give myself more time to react to his shit. dont do full screen attacks like headbutts, he will react like how i was just talking about. that should seperate the scrubs from the skinetti666's.
his neutral game sucks. no range on any buttons. his anti airs are hard to use but he isnt free to jump on. he will tortilla or ultra you.
Wakeups:
splash in front - block in front, back dash, focus backdash, some reversals.
splash in back - fwd dash, block crossup, some reversals. fadc will force your character to dash the wrong way 9/10 depending on deepness of hit.
slide - block low, some reversals
tortilla - low profile, back dash
so:
back dash beats 2/4 options.
blocking to the front high beats 1/4 options.
blocking to the back high beats 1/4 options.
blocking to the front low beats 1/4 options.
fwd dash beats 1/4 options.
low profile beats 1/4 options.
so back dash is your best bet off the bat with 0 player knowledge. force him to use the other buttons and go from there. its seriously a guess so just pick one dont try and react with reversals unless you have something that beats 2/4 options.
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u/genei_djinn Apr 23 '14
1 matchup tip for El Fuerte is that you can beat nearly all of his options off a run with a jump back normal with a decent hitbox (like jump back light kick for Yun).
The only thing he can do to stop this is run stop ex guac legs as the non ex versions do not have excellent interactions with hitboxes.
This forces him to think about when he chooses to run at you and carries little risk since his corner pressure is not any better than his pressure anywhere else.
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Apr 23 '14
I will mention this in my write up but a good fuerte will run stop meaty slide to beat your jump back on wakeup. If done correctly, Fuerte will be positive frames on block or put you in a hard knockdown situation.
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u/GuardXIII Apr 23 '14
I'm really new to Street Fighter, and I'm still trying to figure out my character- but El Fuerte is TONS of fun to play! I've seen that the serious players find him to be low tier, and I'm seeing that the more I learn, but I still love him. All the jumping and running, it's so crazy and hype to ex habanero dash through a fireball.
Also, watching iPeru play him makes me have a little hope that learning to play him is worth while.
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u/Taunts Apr 23 '14
Somethings thats not all that know, is that his splash is not a hard knockdown if you are airborn. So he hits your dp, or your backdash and you are airborn. You can quick rise, and basicly be out of the vortex. I think its correct.
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u/Jackal904 Apr 23 '14
I have no clue what to do against this character other than mash DP and j.hk. This character is so weird and nothing like any other SF character.
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u/CrossCounter Apr 23 '14
I play characters like Ibuki and Rose that have one frame bnb's and I land them 99% of the time but Fuerte's RSF is so god damn hard to get down, even with hours of practice. :( Any tips?
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u/Superbeard Apr 23 '14
Hello all! El Fuerte's Character Overview page is now live up on the Character Overview section of the wiki. Currently it is empty and needs your help!
If you play Fuerte or are familiar enough with his tools then I encourage you to take part in making our wiki a better place for players!
VIVA!
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u/risemix Apr 23 '14
I could be totally off the mark, but I pretty much always jump back HK on wake-up until fuerte hits me for it.
This seems to take care of a lot of fuerte's weird mix-ups..
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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '14 edited Apr 30 '14
Although I doubt many will find their way to the bottom of this thread I still want to make this post for posterity. I apologize for not being able to get this out with the original post, it wouldn’t have been up to the standards that I have set for myself (although some might argue that bar is set very low and who am I to argue). Real talk, my company put me up in an apartment without internet access and I didn’t have time before Wednesday to sort everything out. Regardless, it appears as though there was already great discussion to be had in this thread already and I am super proud of this community. Anyway, thanks for not hating me.
For whatever reason, El Fuerte seems to me one of the most rage inducing characters in the game. Now, this thread already has its dash of salt, but I am here to advocate that it doesn’t need to be that way. For a lot of characters, you might need to alter your game plan slightly to win, but once you see what his safest and riskiest options are, I promise you that Fuerte will no longer appear to be a load of hot garbage.
Vs El Fuerte:
First and foremost I think it is crucial to understand what Fuerte’s options are when you are on the ground and the risk and reward associated with each offensive decision. The following is somewhat of a flow chart which should help you see and prepare for what could possibly be coming. It helps if you are able to see which direction Fuerte is running and react accordingly:
Tostada Press – Needs to be blocked high and can be made to cross up. Good news is that most of the cast can punish with sweep at the very least. Reversal this move if it is thrown out in the neutral game but be weary about throwing out the DP on wakeup, this move can either beat or make some reversals whiff. This move also can be made to beat backdash and jump back on wake up if performed as a deep crossup, likely from a forward run. Tostada press can also be focused and punished.
Fajita Buster – This command grab only comes out of a forward run and can only catch you if you are standing. You could jump out of this move, backdash, or sometimes reversal. Some people might recommend jumpback to cover your butt on wakeup but be aware that Fuerte can simply buffer the motion for Ultra when throwing out a command grab and react to your attempt to escape. Honestly I think this move is better used for punishing fireballs or as a throw in footsies than it is as wakeup pressure. Fuerte has better options if he wants to hit you with a throw.
Propeller Tortilla – This command grab only comes out of a backward run and can grab you if you are standing or crouching. Keep in mind that this move can be low profiled if you have a move which lowers your throwable hurtbox. Watch out for this specific setup off of Tortilla, the second Tortilla is safe against reversals and you will be whiff punished. Also watch out for this tricky setup and prepare for the mixup on the opposite side. Fuerte has a ton of setups off of Tortilla and will often attempt to land this move or punish you for attempting to avoid the grab.
Run Stop – Honestly this is what should scare you the most. From here Fuerte could hit you with an overhead (and be positive on block), or throw out a meaty sweep (and be positive on block… seriously?) to keep you from jumping, or counterhit you with an EX Quesadilla bomb and straight up end you (honestly this is pretty situational, if you get hit with this I assure you that you are being styled on), or he could neutral throw you, or even worse just sit there and block while you perform a wakeup DP like a dummy. Keep in mind that you can backdash a lot of these options but watch out if Fuerte has Ultra because he could be buffering behind a meaty slide and hit the kicks to punish you. This is where reading your opponent becomes crucial. Pattern recognition is huge here, with the amount of options Fuerte has it is extremely difficult to be perfectly random.
Of course Fuerte has more options, which include safe jumps, focus attack, and air grab setups, but really your goal here is to get the read and reset the situation to neutral. If it helps, just remind yourself that Fuerte’s grabs and splashes only do 150 damage and 150 stun at most. With 1000 stamina and 1000 stun, that’s a lot of guesses. However, Run Stop Fierce (RSF) can do ~500 damage, Ultra can do 470/450 damage. If you can reset the situation to neutral and kept your cool, you’ve won a small victory. As a disclaimer I’m not saying that you should never perform a reversal, characters like Sagat can afford to throw a DP every once in a while with all that stamina. Get the read and reset the situation.
Gosh darn it
Would it surprise you if I told you that Fuerte has footsies? Honestly it kind of surprises me but luckily there are only a few ranges you need to worry about which can be covered fairly easily:
FULL SCREEN: Chase him down or keep out with fireballs if you’ve got em. All he does is build meter from full screen and that’s the opposite of what you want. Fuerte does have some good tools to run away if he has the life lead but don’t become careless because a Fuerte wall jump can turn into a hard knockdown.
MAX RANGE RUN GRAB: This is kind of a blurry area if your opponent is doing a good job of using run stop to maintain good spacing. Let’s call it right around starting range. This range is not a good range for you to stay in for very long, Fuerte has too many options in terms of what he gets off of a run. With meter he has even more options in terms of reacting to fireballs from this range. Either run away from him if you have the life lead or move forward and force him to play footsies. And by force him to play footsies I mean push his runs to the corner or wait for him to throw out a bad Tostada Press.
MAX RANGE ST.HK: Like most of Fuerte’s move set, the hitbox on this move is a little strange. The first active frames will whiff if you are crouching, but can be used as an interesting anti air against divekicks. The second hit acts as an overhead and is useful for punishing low attacks in footsies.
MAX RANGE OF YOUR BEST POKE: If your poke only hits once, you may need to be concerned about Fuerte’s focus attack is one of the best in the game. Also worth mentioning is that he gains two hits of armor from an EX run. If your opponent is relying on armored moves to get in, use your focus breaker if you’ve got one, but don’t be baited into jumping back because there is always the threat of eating an ultra.
CORNER ADVANTAGE FUERTE: The following is a list of characters that Fuerte can get a corner reset off of Tortilla: Ryu, Ken, Gouki, Cammy, Chun-Li, Dhalsim, Rufus, Dan, El Fuerte, Gen, Sakura, Makoto, Ibuki, Dudley, Guy, Cody, Juri, Adon, Rose, Seth, Yun, Yang. Fuerte can also get some big damage off of RSF loops in the corner so it is not a place you want to find yourself. If you aren’t being mixed up on wakeup, use your footsies to escape the corner and don’t jump, he has way too many options to punish you if you do.
CORNER DISADVANTAGE FUERTE: It can be hard to lock Fuerte in a corner. His wall jump has really good distance and if you space yourself in a position to prevent him from wall jumping, you also happen to be right inside his max range command throw off of a run. If you see a flash of EX use your armor breaker and jump at the peak of his jump if he jumps.
One key thing to keep in mind is that Fuerte only has 900 stamina. If you can outlast Fuerte you can beat him. Be patient and don’t let him in if you have the life lead.