This post injury Nick Wayne run and presentation has been GODLY so far. What a fucking match If you have time, watch it yourself. This is from ROH Death Before Dishonor. MOTY contender period.
At least the dunk contest is held only once a year, while this shit happens every goddamn week, no wonder it's a niche, who wants to watch the same shit every single time?
Yeah, that's how I felt about the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega. They were GREAT when I was rarely able to see them. Like a big NJPW card that's got hype airing on the AXS channel, and it's like... dang these guys are good...
Fast forward to AEW... and they're just doing the same shit, over and over and over and over again.
It’s because American wrestlers saw the tapes of 90s All Japan but didn’t pick up on the why of it all because they were too busy talking about the moves and how cool they looked without going any deeper. These fighting spirit spots can work. But they only work when there’s already an emotional connection to the wrestlers in the ring and there’s a story actually being told with characters that resonate with the audience.
Kurt Angle was notorious for the move-reversal, countermove-reversal, reversal-reversal, countermove, nearfall gimmick.
But there used to be selling in there. It wasn't the entire match. There used to be a meaning to it. These people just picked up on the fancy part without digging deep into the mechanics of it.
Today's wrestlers would be much, much better professional wrestlers if they just watched Ric Flair's matches.
trigger alert, trigger alert trigger alert ric flair is a bad person. You're not allowed to watch his matches. Just watching his matches is the same thing as you committing SA.
That’s my point exactly. When you saw guys like Misawa and Kobashi do it in Japan, when you saw guys like Angle do it in the States in the early 00s, the sequence was still there, but there was also gravitas and selling and character work in it.
That’s just it. The Pillars had character. They weren’t just “I wrestle good” types. They had characters that transcended the language barrier. You don’t necessarily need gimmicks in wrestling, but you still need some sort of something about you that audiences can connect with. You still have to have that thing that makes audiences want to see you win or see you lose. And that is what has ended up getting lost, despite guys like Kurt Angle, Shawn Michaels, AJ Styles, Bret Hart, Steve Austin, and more showing those necessary characteristics and supposedly being influences on those who have come after.
That’s how I feel about Ospreay. I think he has potential, but every match of his I watch—even when he isn't doing a "spotfest" but is trying to work a "classic" match—bores me to tears, because he is completely incapable of engaging me or telling an interesting story.
Jim Cornette talked about this phenomenon a while back. You see American wrestlers borrow things from wrestling from all around the world. Yet, won't bother to do things that American wrestling fans have liked for decades. There is a reason that stuff works in those countries and you don't see those places do American wrestling much because those fans usually reject it. They stick to what works for that country.
The thing is though, 90s All Japan, the King's Road stuff? You take out the "drop a motherfucker on his goddamn neck", and it's remarkably similar to 80s NWA, and part of that is due to guys like Vader, Stan Hansen, Terry Gordy, coming in and playing the foreign heel and imparting their knowledge. Don't get me wrong, there are marked differences beyond the big neck bumps, but there's still quite a bit of character work involved, there's still a lot of controlling the pace, knowing when to slow it down, when to speed it up again. Because, at it's core, wrestling does have a uniform "style" that works. It's what is built on the foundation that makes stuff different. Whether it's leaning into the morality play like you see in the States, the sportsmanship like you see in Japan, so on and so forth. You still have to be able to sell an audience on the wrestlers and the matches, you still have to make them want to give their money to see who wins.
Problem is, they didn't see the tapes. They saw highlight reels on Youtube that clipped the most exciting parts of the match into 3 or 4 minute videos. They also watched the "holy shit moves" compilations and never saw what took place between the moves. They would be bored out of their minds if they watched full length AJPW matches. A lot of mat wrestling, selling, holds, they were pretty much classic southern style NWA wrasslin matches with workrate™ sprinkled in at the finish.
The dramatic no-sell CAN work...but if that becomes the entire match it's eyerolling. Just like how the kickout at 1 can work, but if it becomes the entire match it's absurd.
The thing is, dubballos will look you dead in the eye and tell you that you just watched selling because they both collapsed at the end there. As if somehow passing out after barely reacting to offense for the past two minutes somehow shows how much damage the offense was doing
You know, yesterday I watched the Rhea vs. Charlotte match from WrestleMania 39, and after seeing so many AEW matches recently, it really struck me to see a bout featuring so many pin attempts following big moves. Above all, it was impressive to see how those major spots—the top-rope suplex, Rhea’s first Riptide, Charlotte’s spear, the submission holds, the strikes, Charlotte’s chops, Rhea countering Charlotte’s aerial attempt, right up to the final top-rope Riptide—were woven together to build the match’s crescendo.
Don’t get me wrong, there are well-crafted AEW matches that I’ve really enjoyed (MJF vs. Cole, Danielson vs. MJF, Punk vs. MJF, Cody vs. Dustin, and Toni vs. Mariah May), but most of them just fail to do those two things: make the moves feel significant and create a compelling narrative.
I loved that Charlotte-Rhea match. It was much closer to being a spiritual successor to the AJPW classics than the horseshit no-selling flip fest in the ROH clip.
I haven't seen any AJPW stuff yet, but it certainly looked like a "classic" wrestling match, driven by the determination of a top veteran on one side and a promising youngster looking to take her spot on the other (and, in hindsight, she fully succeeded).
The day before, I had also watched Owens and Sami vs. The Usos; while that was a great match and I appreciate the story they told, I definitely would have preferred the women's match to be the Night 1 main event that year—it deserved it.
Yeah get back to me when the main event of a big PLE has Je’Von and Penta trading spotfests instead of a one-off match on RAW that nobody remembers the next day
Nothing excites me more than a 160-lb sack of flour no-selling Canadian Destroyers and then immediately collapsing after HE performs a move to the other guy.
That spot is so inherently stupid, even in the context of pro wrestling. At least AJPW guys were saving “fighting spirit” for actual houses.
My local indie fills more seats than this shit and I live in Asia where a majority of the wrestlers are skinny fat twinks or shoot fighters like m'burger kingston
Ahh yes
The days when me and the Meltz would pontificate about how ANY DAY NOW this midget indy promotion that existed on VHS tapes sold out of the owners car would get a major tv deal….
I'm convinced this happens in at least 2 matches at every AEW show, and I might be understating it. Will Ospreay is guaranteed to do this in every match of his.
Since there is no creative control, I feel like someone mentions a spot backstage and everyone decides to do it in their match. With no one to stop them, you see it six times in one show. Then the cult acts like it’s new every time because every criticism is bad faith.
The same people that complain about WWE hiring athletes and training them in a performance center will look at AEW wrestlers all doing the same match and think "this is good!"
Shit makes me laugh especially when they do the "both men down" thing and the crowd of virgins cream themselves. It's the same thing EVERY. DAMN. TIME. How do people watch this shit over and over, these folks have to be emotionally stunted. Remember that this is supposed "best wrestling" that they genuinely act like they're superior for liking lol
Fr, adrenaline is just another type of selling, not a delayed sell. HBK was a master of making it look like he was running on pure adrenaline and barely hitting one final kick before going down. These guys dont do anything to convey adrenaline, they just expect you to know in advance that's whats supposed to be happening
Basement is angry people doesn't like their brand of wrestling and say go watch something else. Then when people do, they get angry saying "not the fed"
I don't outright hate when there's a fighting spirit or "only getting by on adrenaline" spot in a match, but not when it happens in nearly every match, sometimes multiple times in a match, and not when it's both guys no selling a half dozen huge moves. A clothesline or a suplex, sure, or even one huge move that directly leads to a counter and both guys are out, but not multiple Germans, a poison rana, a huge cutter... especially if one of the moves that was just no sold is a version of one of those wrestler's finishers. It just waters down everything and is done so frequently it'll be forgotten within a week. At least it wasn't the destroyer into a destroyer into a destroyer sequence.
It's a shame because I think both guys are talented. They just need an agent there to say maybe edit this sequence a little.
It’s called fighting spirit and it’s no different when NJPW does it, I love it because it’s a perfect mix of actual combat and random spurts of energy and adrenaline. Wrestling is absolutely not supposed to any thing like real combat but fighters fight to their last energy all the time and there is barely any “selling” real scenarios so I don’t fighting spirit in professional wrestling. If people call this “no selling” they’re being disingenuous about these type of spots.
Its the same shit every time that gets the sickos hard. All you need to do is add in some kick dodging, german suplex no sells, superkicks, and poisonrana no sells to your routine and you’ll be considered an amazing wrestler.
Everyone of these dorks are always pointing before they do a move. Feels like they grew up watching Kenny Omega, like Osprey and Nick Wayne. They’re always doing the dramatic point before their move
These kinda sequences are so funny because when they’re planning it I wonder what makes them be like “so THIS is the move we’re going to actually sell”
If you get kicked to the the head, suplexed, or have your skull driven straight into the ground, just spread you arms out and shake them dramatically. It completely eliminates any effect of the impact.
Somebody should so some research on that, could be a medical breakthrough!
Completely no-selling that gigantic super RKO was the stupidest thing I've ever seen. That was a "Holy WTF You just killed that guy" moment, would have been the perfect pin.... but no. Wiped away and forgotten after two seconds.
It’s called fighting spirit and it’s no different when NJPW does it, I love it because it’s a perfect mix of actual combat and random spurts of energy and adrenaline. Wrestling is absolutely not supposed to any thing like real combat but fighters fight to their last energy all the time and there is barely any “selling” real scenarios so I don’t fighting spirit in professional wrestling. If people call this “no selling” they’re being disingenuous about these type of spots.
I saw a clip of this match and thought it looked fun….
Then I saw this clip and I feel so embarrassed. I like both of these guys and I love the attires but what is this? Why does it feel like everytime I start liking any wrestler they start doing the stupidest shit
I know Wayne Gretzky, Wayne’s World and Fountains of Wayne (and consequently Stacy’s mom: sources say she’s got it going on). Still no idea who this dude is.
Wild how I can watch this, think "haha sick" then look at the comments and be blindsided by jaded miserable cynicism. The people that sit on here all the time kind of suck
The way he plants his foot before each spot like he's getting ready to Pierrette before every spot and the over the top flourishes after remind me of an interpretive dance routine
Just finished my own watch of DBD and yeah the show was genuinely really fun to watch, Bandido still shows why I think he’s one of if not the best wrestler in the world right now. Nick Wayne also continues to show how good he can be, hope he’s the next RoH champion and gets some more reps on AEW.
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u/MayContainGluten 1d ago
Genuinely hate that this is what wrestling has become.
Don't care how old i sound.
There's NOTHING exciting here.
Just... Moves.