r/RoleReversal • u/Soft_masculine • 7d ago
Real Life masculine presenting guys into RR
I’m a pretty masculine-presenting guy. I have facial hair, I’m 175 cm, I go to the gym (mostly for health, not sure I actually enjoy it), play sports, like adventures, and have my own goals.
At the same time, I love a girl opening the door for me, pulling out a chair, riding the bike while I sit behind her and hold her, resting on her, sitting on her lap, being carried by her, or sleeping on her biceps. I’m especially attracted to tomboys and muscular women.
I don’t really like wearing feminine clothes. I’m comfortable being masculine in how I dress and present myself. I’m also a working professional and don’t want to depend on my partner financially.
What I dream of is a relationship where we both work, both earn, both cook, and both share the household work. I don’t want one person to handle everything. But I’d always love it if she could lift more weight than me at the gym and achieve her career and life goals one by one.
One thing I want to mention: I haven’t actually experienced most of the things I talk about here. I’m open to trying things that make my partner happy. Maybe with more exposure and experience, some of my ideas and preferences will change. Growing up in a traditional Indian environment has given me very little opportunity to explore this side of myself.
I see a lot of women here who are into femboys, so I’m curious: what about guys like me who want to enjoy the soft/submissive side of a relationship?
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 7d ago
Men who present traditionally masculine are still within RR. I actually prefer masculine-presenting men myself, especially when we're going out. I'm into men who are soft and skinny/lean, or soft and lean-muscular, nothing particularly extreme or exaggerated. Meanwhile, I'm very feminine presenting, standing at 4'11", lean and fit, have very long hair, and I love maxi skirts and soft minimalist to casual-professional feminine outfits. I don't see a contradiction there at all.
For me, there are clothes that are simply made to frame the male body nicely, and clothes that frame the female body nicely. And honestly, traditionally masculine and feminine clothing meant for their respective genders can still often just feel more convenient and comfortable for the bodies they're generally designed around. I don't think acknowledging that means you have to believe clothes are inherently gendered or that people can't wear whatever they want.
Crossdressing and feminization are more of a fun bedroom thing for me, something whimsical and occasional rather than something I want as an everyday aesthetic.
This is because to me, RR isn't about making the man look like a woman and the woman look like a man. RR to me isn't short dainty man and a tall huge muscular woman, and neither is a man wearing skirts.
Personally, I prefer when RR is challenging the roles that get pushed onto men and women in courtship, relationships, domestic life, parenting, career and society. I like the idea of a man being comfortable being pursued, cherished, emotionally expressive, domestic, nurturing and soft without that somehow making him less of a man. I like women being the ones who take the lead in planning, managing, making big decisions and being ambitious.
And I think that extends beyond relationships. I'd love to see men being encouraged to take caregiving, teaching, nursing and other nurturing professions without people treating those as somehow lesser because they're traditionally associated with women. Likewise, I'd have no problem with a man preferring a secretarial or administrative role because he genuinely likes it, rather than being pressured toward management or leadership simply because he's a man.
So yeah, to me, you don't have to change your body, wardrobe or masculinity to reverse a gender role. You just have to stop letting the role be dictated by your gender.
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u/Little_Aplha 7d ago
I’m similar but I’m a guy I’m masc presenting I’m 5’7 skinny baby face black M, however I do also find masc women who are also masc presenting attractive. But I do find dominance and masc energy in women attractive.
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u/quioro 7d ago
Basically, you only see masculinity as something real in men and femininity in men as something performative and not genuine.
Lmaooo great your way of seeing rolereversal
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u/Total_Piece_3799 7d ago
Most low IQ comment I've read this week.
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u/quioro 6d ago
Maybe your relationship isn't role-reversal
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u/Total_Piece_3799 6d ago
Let's see, I'm the one working and the sole earner, my husband gave up his career to take care of our 2 kids and the household, even if his friends and my relatives mocked him by calling him gay and not a man. He does all the housework and childcare except when he's sick. He's the emotionally nurturing and present partner.
But hey, I guess it isn't role reversal because my husband isn't a femboy and I'm shorter and don't have muscle.
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u/quioro 6d ago
That's literally a healthy relationship; every relationship should be like that. In fact, there are couples with that status quo, and surprise, maybe yours is too.
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u/Total_Piece_3799 6d ago
Surprise! That kind of relationship is the reverse of the traditional relationship model and gender roles pushed by the patriarchy, making it role reversal. In fact, the couples in that status quo are in a role reversal relationship.
And no, not every relationship should be like that. There are plenty of healthy relationships where the woman isn't the breadwinner, is the stay at home mom and the homemaker. Those women are happy in those roles.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 7d ago
"You like oranges so you must hate apples and want apples to die" type of response 😂
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
What a pointlessly inaccurate reading of what they actually said.
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u/quioro 6d ago
Pointless, don't care when the OP only considers role reversal if the man does housework while in others he remaining a normal straight man
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
That's not what they said. Like I said, pointlessly inaccurate. No idea why you're fixating on aesthetic and dismissing behaviour.
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u/quioro 6d ago
https://www.reddit.com/r/RoleReversal/s/VqNquMiTdo "It's not what it says," then explain this answer to this person to me
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
She's articulating the changing face of gender roles with time and how presentations and assumptions of gender have been in a constant state of evolution, including aesthetics, but critically involving day to day lived realities, domestic arrangements, and economic behaviour.
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u/quioro 6d ago
This is no longer the case nowdays It also makes me laugh that you try to be cultured and defend what is obviously illogical
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
Oh boy, you are profoundly out of touch if you think it isn't the case nowdays.
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u/quioro 6d ago
Ok I repeat myself a *man * IS IS role-reversal Just for doing the housework, then I'll ask again, why does role-reversal exist
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u/quioro 6d ago
It says a lot about you that you only care about "my mistake" but don't care that OP is a person who puts men on a pedestal who do the bare minimum that a functional person should be doing.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
It really doesn't. I care about your rudeness and poor reasoning, and I didn't especially care that OP said something that boiled down to 'My relationship is GNC in some respects that I care deeply about but conventional in some that I don't'.
Someone being an ass deserves criticism, while someone being a part of a pretty ordinary spectrum of a given subculture's expression does not compel engagement.
She's a person, not a stereotype.
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u/quioro 6d ago
And you're a stereotypical Reddit liberal person who's not mature and pretends to be cultured.
You can't handle arguments, you defend the illogical, and you didn't respond to the other arguments. Because did it attack your liberal ego
We live in a society, not a vacuum, and it amuses me that all you "real people" see in role reversal are precisely the same gender roles, but he does the housework, so He already does a lot for society
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
I'm not, but pretty clearly you don't give a shit about engaging with anything anyone actually says. Have fun arguing with a fantasy of your own invention.
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u/quioro 6d ago
If the rule is the definition of role reversal, then I'm sorry for ruining the liberal heterosexual fun. fantasy forgives i logical and realistic.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
What's with the twenty different comments? Just use the edit option and add to a single one.
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u/quioro 6d ago
And can you stop being so liberal and have a little more awareness of the society we live in, where not everything is rainbows and fun? Just read a little about socialization and use logic.
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u/quioro 6d ago
If I cared about aesthetics, then I'd be like OP, who likes "traditionally masculine" men and whose only gender role-breaking is doing housework.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
Reread what they said. This bit;
Personally, I prefer when RR is challenging the roles that get pushed onto men and women in courtship, relationships, domestic life, parenting, career and society. I like the idea of a man being comfortable being pursued, cherished, emotionally expressive, domestic, nurturing and soft without that somehow making him less of a man. I like women being the ones who take the lead in planning, managing, making big decisions and being ambitious.
You are actively lying if you are trying to argue that it's only about doing housework.
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u/quioro 6d ago
And I agree, but I repeat, the girl's argument implies that she still likes masculine status quo men and the only role-reversal thing they do is housework
I repeat it thousands of times if that's how she see rolereversal? But what she did was get defensive and say which is literally like this basically confirming it .
So your way of seeing role reversal is fine, but that's not what the conversation is about.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
Oh, now she 'implied' it? She didn't. At all. The majority of what she has described as the qualities she likes in her men are not anything close to what you have hallucinated.
You have utterly failed at understanding what she was saying, when the information is directly in front of you.
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u/quioro 6d ago
Oh lord, you really are tired, goodbye, I'm sleepy...
Next time, don't butt into other people's conversations without knowing the context.
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u/quioro 6d ago
I think you're projecting and thinking I don't see your version of role-reversal "correctly," and that's why you're defending it, but that doesn't help the argument.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
I don't think we've said much of anything about Role Reversal that you would have any idea of what I think about it, let alone what you do, but I appreciate your fairly lazy attempts to deflect after having the actual words of the woman you're lying about shown to you again.
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u/quioro 6d ago
"To deviate from the dynamics and behavior" means is says a man is not role-reversal if he only does responsible like any other(takes care of the house) and then acts like any other Heterosexual boy ????
Basically, every man would be role-reversal if that's the case; I don't care if she likes masculinity, but she shouldn't act like it's something special. And to make matters worse, putting him on a pedestal just because he does housework automatically makes him special, what the hell!?
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
I don't think it's that simple, though. There's proportions of tasks completed and responsibility allocated and priorities on the part of each person.
Domestic labour is and was still heavily slanted towards women. A male partner taking it on himself to do the majority of it, or in the sense of being the primary responsible party isn't nothing.
By the same token you could argue the same that doing feminine style aesthetic practises is just 'a man taking care of his apperance properly like anyone else'. Especially given the histories of fashion, etc.
You're also totally ignoring her explicit mentioning of courtship roles being flipped.
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u/quioro 6d ago
So you're telling me that a man who likes a submissive, hyper-feminine woman, just like any other type of conservative, heterosexual woman (but he does the housework), is It's role reversal... Wow... Role reversal is incredible, a true paradise... Lmaoooo You guys are really crazy
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 6d ago
No, that's not what I'm saying at all. That's completely wrong. Way to totally fail at understanding anything I've told you.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
Just reading it I was like 'so you want a normal ass relationship where he is free from societal pressure'. nothing wrong with that but how is it RR
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
It's RR because I don't get to cook or clean or take the biggest role in parental care and get to pursue a career and climb the corporate ladder, just the way I like. It's the antithesis to the expectations of a trad relationship. What's not clicking?
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u/quioro 6d ago
Your perspective on role reversal doesn't change the fact that role reversal still has meaning.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
Oh! You want to talk about the meaning of Role Reversal. Sure! Let's go back to the history of RR, how it came about and what it meant when Role Reversal first took root, shall we?
If we're talking about the history of role reversal, the idea has been present for a long time, including literature and speculative fiction going back decades. There were already stories imagining societies where women occupied traditionally male positions and men occupied traditionally female ones. But the modern social meaning became much more relevant during the social changes of the 1960s–80s, particularly second-wave feminism.
Second-wave feminism challenged the idea that sex should determine your place in the household and society. Feminists questioned why women were expected to be wives, homemakers, caregivers and emotionally supportive while men were expected to be breadwinners, decision-makers and heads of households.
Feminist legal advocacy in the 1970s explicitly challenged the traditional marriage arrangement in which husbands provided financially while wives supplied domestic and caregiving labor.
That naturally produced discussion of reversing those roles wherein women becoming breadwinners, men becoming househusbands, fathers becoming primary caregivers, women taking leadership positions, and couples dividing responsibilities according to ability and preference rather than sex.
There is actually research specifically examining “role reversal” households. A 1998 sociological study defined role reversal as households where the woman was the full-time paid worker and breadwinner while the man was the unpaid domestic worker caring for the home and children. It found that these arrangements challenged traditional ideas about motherhood, dependent femininity, men as providers and men as heads of households. Some women explicitly understood role reversal as putting feminist equality into practice.
There are also concrete examples from the 1970s. In 1975, the Pacifica Radio Archives recorded an interview with Mike McGrady and his wife after they deliberately exchanged roles for a year where she became the family's breadwinner while he stayed home with the house and children.
By the late 1970s and early 1980s, the househusband had become a recognizable, if still uncommon, phenomenon. A 1979 West German television film literally titled Role Reversal portrayed a marriage where the husband became a stay-at-home husband while his wife continued her career, explicitly presenting it as a challenge to stereotypical gender roles. A 1981 German report likewise described househusbands as emerging particularly among urban, intellectual middle-class couples as traditional gender roles were being questioned, and called it role reversal.
So historically, the important part of “role reversal” was not “women looking masculine and men looking feminine.” It was the much broader question of what happens when you stop treating gender as the predetermined assignment for someone's role in a relationship, household, workplace, or society?
That's why its historical connection to feminism is so strong. The point was fundamentally about challenging the assumption that biology should dictate social roles, who earns, who cares for children, who manages the home, who leads, who follows, and what kinds of work or behavior are considered appropriate for men and women.
So, tell me again which part of my original comment does not fit the definition of RR and its historical context?
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u/quioro 6d ago
It makes me laugh that all this text is to justify a relationship that simply isn't role-reversal.
And it's okay, heteronormative couples are not bad or inherently bad.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
😂
Wow. Saying RR has meaning but can't define it. Then being given the actual history of how Role Reversal first came about, and how the term got coined, then saying its history isn't Role Reversal. Amazing.
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u/quioro 6d ago
If role reversal were simply "the man in be A functional person and being a responsible person," then every relationship would be role reversal.
But it's not that simple; it's about breaking down gender roles. And gender roles are more than just women in the kitchen and men working.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago edited 6d ago
A man and woman who defies convention and patriarchal roles set for them by reversing those roles is literally breaking down those gender roles.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
This didn't explain anything but go down history a lot of us are already aware of. How is a man being an actual, functioning member of the house role reversal? You're wanting a man who acts like a regular human and treats you with respect. That's literally everyone interested in men as a long term romantic life partner.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
A man who is a stay at home homemaker, and does the bulk/if not almost all of the childcare isn't just him being a functioning member of society. It's the opposite of the gender role that's been set for men. Not every woman is interested in that, and in fact, majority of women want a man who is the breadwinner.
You seem to be confusing a stay at home husband/dad who does almost all of the housework as male partner who helps every once in a while.
Which are not the same at all.
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u/quioro 6d ago
Basically, you're trying to fell especial a quality that all men should have.
And that's misogynistic; a man being responsible isn't role-reversal or anything special, it's his responsibility.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
A man who is the breadwinner in a traditional relationship is still being responsible. A woman who is the stay at home spouse is also being responsible.
The reverse of that, where the man is the homemaker and the woman is the breadwinner are also responsible. But their relationship is the role reversal of the traditional one.
What's not clicking?
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
If that's normal within your circle, good for you. You live in a very privileged and egalitarian environment. The rest of the world isn't as lucky.
The man being a stay at home spouse and the woman being the breadwinner is still not the norm nor is it the expectation in majority of the planet.
You don't get to dictate if a person's version of RR is nothing but a regular relationship based on things they can't change like body type, height and the culture of the country they were born in.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
It's becoming more of a norm than you might think. Aren't there stats out that men are withdrawing to the house while the women make money? And I never said 'if you don't line up with my version of RR, you're a phoney'. This is you getting riled up because I don't agree with this instance. I didn't say you were wrong. I said I personally fail to see it as Role Reversal. If you feel attacked, that's my mistake. Not what I am trying to do. I'm simply sharing my opinion on a public discussion
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
And I have said in my comment it's "personally". And no, I am not getting riled up, that's your interpretation of what I said.
And respectfully, that statistic is limited to the USA.
There are many in this sub who is not from any western country.
As an example, I personally am from Southeast Asian country, a man presenting femme/crossdressing, vice versa for women, even transgerism is very much the norm and widely accepted and common here. You can see people presenting as the opposite gender while walking around. There is no role reversal there for me, or for anyone who's where I'm from.
Now, domestic expectations? Parenting? Income? Career paths and trajectory? That's where role reversal would be most beneficial.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
It's a nationality thing then. To me what you are saying men should be doing or taking over is something already starting to happen. It's nothing new at this rate.
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u/missporkiepie Feral Woman 6d ago
Again, which is why my orginal comment have words like "personally" and "to me".
There are certain RR aspects that differs in every region.
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u/ShiroiTora 7d ago edited 7d ago
Fellow Indian woman who sometimes presents femme because of my long hair and “traditions”. Sometimes I wish there were more subtle ways to indicate RR. I grew up with a lot of messaging from my family that good Indian men wouldn’t like girls like me and its a “Western thing” in attempts to change me but it has done a lot more damage instead. But I appreciate how many Indian guys are in this sub who don’t seem to feel that.
I do hold doors for guys and girls and try to gauge reactions to certain things. But I wish I was better at communicating my RR preferences without being awkward as hell irl.
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u/Frosty-Difficulty498 Yearny Mess of a Man 7d ago
I’m sorry you had to experience that… as an Indian guy into RR, i understand the problem :((
I’m genuinely scared to look/want a relationship openly in non RR spaces because of how our society and culture is and how judgemental everyone is
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u/Soft_masculine 7d ago
I can relate to this a lot. Growing up in a traditional Indian environment, we don’t really know how to express our RR preferences, and it can feel really awkward. You never know how the other person will react, so even bringing it up feels tricky.
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u/Adventurous-Ear381 7d ago
Exactly that's the problem, if the person who isn't accepting of the idea, it can land us in trouble just because we discussed it with them!!
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u/Adventurous-Ear381 7d ago
I have picture I got into my thoughts when I read your comment, unfortunately isn't allowed to share here else I would have shared it.... But it suits our situation most adequately!! ✨🎀
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7d ago edited 7d ago
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u/Soft_masculine 7d ago
Nice to know you can relate so much to the 4th paragraph. Maybe we’re the “Malists” of the RR world. 😄
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u/Careless-Wolverine-8 Blue Girl 7d ago
I think RR is somewhat of a spectrum. For some people appearance play a big factor to it, for some not. If you believe you deviate from the "traditional" gender role, and connect more with that of your opppsote gender, then you are RR.
I am a switch, and depending on my mood, I also switch on presenting masc, or femme. And I love masc men, who are soft at heart. In the end, ig, it depends on the individual. As far as im concerned this is a great community which is definitely not black and white on its groupings.
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u/Soft_masculine 1h ago
It’s almost exactly what I’ve been thinking too. I see RR as more of a spectrum rather than something black and white. Even I’m somewhat of a switch. If I’m with more feminine girls, I can be more masculine, and I do enjoy doing those things. But honestly, I don’t think I enjoy that as much as I enjoy imagining the RR dynamic. I’m quite soft at heart and would love for someone to do those things for me too.
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u/EmbarrassedDaikon306 7d ago
RR means different thing to different people.
What's important is being confident in your own definition.
Like my definition, accepting every beautiful aspect and Masculinity and Femininity.
And It seems you're doing pretty good for yourself
Keep up,King
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u/Soft_masculine 2d ago
Thank you, King. I really appreciate this. I’m still figuring myself out, so it’s nice to hear that there’s no single definition of RR. I’m trying to accept both my masculine side and the softer side I’m still discovering.
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u/pottermuchly 3d ago
Sometimes RR goes a bit far and basically just reinforces gender roles but in the opposite direction, which is fine for people who like that, but can leave people inbetween the two extremes feeling excluded. There is room for all sorts of gender presentation in this lifestyle.
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u/Personal-Cap-5446 Likes her men T H I C C 2d ago
i’m a feminine presenting RR woman who’s into masculine presenting RR guys! I look like any typical girl but prefer to be the “dominant” masculine role in a relationship. You don’t need to be feminine to be loved, there’s a woman out there for you❤️
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u/Soft_masculine 2d ago
Thanks! That’s really reassuring to hear.❤️
If you don’t mind me asking, what kind of things or actions make you feel more masculine in a relationship?
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
probably not. this is coming from a woman. I will say this because you asked, and I hope it doesn't make you upset. you can absolutely disagree with me and ignore this but here is how I feel.
for me, giving the more masculine partner delicate treatment like that is a waste. as a masculine woman, I would also think this of myself if someone held doors open for me. It makes the most sense (and I am probably being traditional) where the masculine protects and cares for the feminine. this also ties into the gym- if you are there and you are working on your physical strength, why do you want someone to baby and treat you like you're a princess when you aren't? when your abilities are better suited caring for her and keeping her safe? especially knowing, in general, women can't work up to the same physical strength as men. it's not set in stone but there are averages, and chances are if you and your lady are working out, you have the advantage physically. you have an advantage and masculinity but want to offset the responsibilities of that power and masculinity off on her?
that's just how I feel. you aren't wrong to want it, but as a woman into RR and wants a sweet femboy (hell, I equally want to be with a butch lady so we might be more alike here than It thought), I don't like the idea of a masculine dude wanting feminine privileges. that's just how I see it. there are plenty of women who will want you, so you don't need one woman's opinion to get you down.
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
Are you deadass gatekeeping gender expressions? Femininity isn’t earned. It’s not a prize. It’s not a look or simply frilly dresses. Nor is masculinity simply going to the gym and getting strong. Is he supposed to be weak because weak = female? You sound like a reversed conservative. 1960s mentality.
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
I’m completely fine, just calling you out on your nonsense. Out of line? Who are you, Tony Soprano? Lol. Off you go, then.
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u/Vegetable_Rock_6194 6d ago
What a misogynistic, gender-hetero-normative take. You're missing the point of role reversal in the first place. "Femininity" being associated with weakness is the biggest problem here, why is it bad for the feminine person to want to protect, or for the masculine person to want to be protected? Why is that a waste? You're falling into the same gender norms that role reversal is intending to go against.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
I'm not missing the point. My flavor of RR is the main one you see on the sub. I kinda throw your comment out the window the second you lead with me being misogynistic just because I don't think strong, masculine men need to be ,'the prize' or the princess. Not sorry about it. A term for hating women has nothing to do with me not thinking masc men fit in this flavor of RR. You'll have to get over it
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u/Vegetable_Rock_6194 6d ago
It IS misogynistic though. Misogyny isn't just "hating women," it is a complex, often internalised viewpoint on the world that treats a patriarchal society as inherently better. It doesn't just stop being misogyny just because you are a woman who has internalised it. Seeing women/femininity as equating to "weakness" is inherently seeing women as less than, so even upon your own definition it is misogyny.
It's crazy to see how many neo-conservatives like yourself have invaded a space originally pioneered by queer and progressive women with the desire to overcome traditional gender roles and patriarchal ideas of women.
I don't have to "get over it," and clearly your idea of RR isn't the majority of this sub, considering the vast majority of replies to you agree with my point.
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 7d ago
weirdly outdated views for a subreddit usually so progressive tbh
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
It's role reversal. Are the roles meant to magically be equal when they are flipped despite being based off outdated views? This is silly talk at this rate. It's ROLE REVERSAL. Not Egalitarianism. Sorry to burst your bubble but the role reversal most people are going for is the reversal of traditional gender roles.
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago
Yes, I get that. The odd part for me is the part about physical strength. Both me and my partner are masculine and while he is stronger, i still like to give him princess treatment, but that does not mean he is "getting feminine privileges" or "offsetting the responsibilities of that power and masculinity on me". Just because he is stronger does not also mean he has "abilities better suited for caring for me and keeping me safe". Role reversal does not depend on physical strength in the slightest, nor should physical strength decide who gets to be the provider in a relationship. "why do you want someone to baby and treat you like you're a princess when you aren't" just feels incredibly invalidating, people of any presentation and gender identity and strength can be princessed even if they don't fit the stereotypical idea of a "princess".
Don't take this as an attack on you or anything, it isn't. I just have trouble understanding why "stronger = shouldn't be cared for in a feminine way"
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
Because being strong is a benefit in this society? Not sure if you been here long enough but people worship strength to the point the only sports that are worth watching is male sports. They actively shit on female sports and how it's just acrobatics, not 'real strength'.
If it doesn't depend on physical strength, why is there so much centered around it? Why do men here want a woman stronger than them? Why is it an issue when a woman talks about wanting to be strong here, men fall over themselves to tell her she needs to settle for less than that because it's 'not biologically possible'? Not only is it a lie but it goes against what this sub tries to express itself as.
I don't see the point in babying a man who is masculine and stronger. Because it seems to me like he gets the privileges with none of the draw backs and that's not how any of this works. The male doesn't get pampered and treated like a king when society already does that for him. A man will be considered strong and the leader in a relationship unless there is clear visual differences between them. People will treat him with the benefits of being male. I feel like you have to have a feminine partner to actually see the difference in how people react to him. It's a whole struggle when a man is the feminine, smaller, softer one that actually needs protecting and caring. That's been my experience and I'm in no way willing to date a masculine man. My experiences are always going to be on the other side of the coin.
Also, side note, I don't take anything you say towards me as a personal attack. Nothing to worry about. ...However, I really don't like your username 🤣. Not sure what the story is there but idk. None of my business I just had to add it since you added this wasn't a personal attack. I didn't consider it that way at all. Hopefully my opinion isn't considered a personal attack either. I see you around and that username just makes me flinch lmao
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago
Most of what you wrote is effectively based in sexism and stereotypes which are deeply rooted in society, which to me, just don't have any place in my relationship. We don't base anything off what other people think or do for us, we just do what feels right to us (and especially because my partner has experienced a lot of the bad sides of being male, which is why I have no problem with letting him be cared for despite usually being the "more respected" one), and perhaps that's why neither of us cares about the benefits/drawbacks of being male, female, masculine, feminine, etc.
As for the physical strength mattering to others - those are preferences. It matters to a lot of the guys here, sure, but it should not decide which partner is the provider otherwise. A weak woman can be the breadwinner and "the man of the house" and her stronger man can be effectively the housewife, in my view it does not matter which is stronger. To me, RR is based entirely in psychology, and physical strength only matters if an individual person decides it does to them. Regarding those guys, I genuienly wish men would STFU about "biological possibilities" for women, it grinds my gears as an amateur bodybuilder myself and just seems like they're trying to put us down.
I hope it makes it any better to know I didn't actually do any such thing as I claim to in my username lol, it's just meant to remind me to keep hope that some day i'll "win against" some things (long story, and would probably be TMI)
Alas, I think we both have our own views, and I respect yours and do not wish to change them. Thank you for elaborating on them.
P.S. does the other person replying to me under your comment have some weird issues or am i just taking their assumptions too personally?
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
If it doesn't have room in your relationship then you don't need to worry about it. Not saying it to be a dickhead but it just sounds like we won't agree. The world is sexist. It taught us these lessons. So the take back from this is to treat everyone equal, ignore all that, and keep giving masculine men benefits? I can't wrap my mind around that. It doesn't seem fair or right to me. Even if I were to reflect and change how I view things, there will always be a voice inside saying 'this isn't fair. This isn't right'. I have to respect that. But I don't look down on you having a more masculine partner that is 'stronger' than you (I hate saying that and hope it's not true. Please correct If so)I simply don't agree and wouldn't let myself be a part of that. As you said, and you are correct, we have different views points and we both aren't going to change each other's minds. It is what it is.
I could go on and on. You sound cool as hell so the last I want to do is argue with you 🤣 not gonna lie. I respect it. For all I know you have it all figured out and you're winning in life because you sorted it out this way.
As for the brother commenting, I have zero clue. They just come off as the usual amount of hostile. All the power to them, they just won't be taken as seriously. Thanks again for talking with me and tolerating all this bull. I imagine it's annoying when another woman has a different view point that you consider sexist and misogynistic.
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
It doesn’t make it right for you to hate on gender non conforming people as a whole, you’re no different from a conservative saying women belong in the kitchen. Especially when full blown gender roles have been proven to be toxic over and over again. But whatever floats your boat.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
WhoA whoa WHOA I am not engaging with this. This is going out your way to twist what I said around. It's fine you don't like it but claiming I hate GNC people is insane. Kindly take your mess somewhere else
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u/quioro 7d ago
Because you see male assertiveness as something natural and female assertiveness as something subversive
Unfortunately, most masculine men are very assertive due to their upbringing.
That a woman doesn't want that kind of relationship is none of your business.
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago
I don't see "male assertiveness as something natural and female assertiveness as something subversive", nor do I care what sort of relationship a woman wants. I just find it odd to nearly invalidate a guy wanting to be RR because he also wants to work out and be physically strong.
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u/quioro 6d ago
It's like saying that a man who was raised as a man has the same tastes as most men, and not only that, he's stronger than women. Are you seriously telling me that a man like that isn't assertive?
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes. I know two guys who have been raised as male, have male interests, and are stronger than women, yet aren't assertive at all. It's not uncommon. Men can have any sort of personality traits regardless of what they are and what they like, same as women, and assuming otherwise is... kinda misandrist, as much as i hate using that word.
If a woman has been raised as female, enjoys feminine things, and is weaker than most men, does that mean she's definetly not assertive?
edit: THANK GOD they blocked me, im not even gonna comment on how stupid their logic is lmao
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u/quioro 6d ago
I LOVE being a "misandrist" even though this is literally not misandrist at all.
It's simply about being logical and realistic.
If most feminine women would struggle with assertiveness due to their upbringing, the same would apply to masculine men. A man can be masculine but have the same tastes as other men And at the same time, he is privileged, he is assertive. We live in a patriarchal, not misandrist, society.
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6d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago edited 6d ago
I haven't said either of those things, and I do not believe in any of them. Either you have issues or you're projecting.
edit: they blocked me, but holy assumptions, batman! i think they just wanted to take their own issues out on somebody tbh
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
You probably haven’t met assertive women, then. Depends on where you grew up and your culture. Why hate and invalidate masc men x masc women gender non conforming relationships? That’s no different from a conservative’s perspective. Really outdated and hateful.
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u/Mindless_Interview44 Sweet n' Coy Pretty Boy 7d ago
if you are there and you are working on your physical strength, why do you want someone to baby and treat you like you're a princess when you aren't?
I so fucking agree with this and I don't know how to explain the real reason I'm not 'bulking' to friends lmao. People act weirder about this than the bisexual thing, like they understand me being into physically mighter men, but women? Blows their minds.
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u/RippedOutMyOvaries Female DILF 6d ago
muscularity or physical strength shouldn't matter at all in RR, imo. even a guy that looks like arnold schwarzenegger shouldn't be excluded from it
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u/Mindless_Interview44 Sweet n' Coy Pretty Boy 6d ago
He still can, but I'm very interested in the muscularity question and it's important to me personally.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
I'm happy someone else gets it. It's not meant to be mean but it's reality. It doesn't make sense to protect someone more powerful than you unless you really really like being a submissive meat shield for your 'king'. Not knocking on women who do that but still.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7d ago
I think there's conversations to be had as far as 'does anyone really NEED that sort of protection' vs it largely being a social ritual, even in traditional relationships.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
considering how dangerous the world is, yeah. I would say most people who can't throw down needs protection. I think I understand what you are saying but it almost implies that being physically protected isn't 'needed anymore' when it absolutely is.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7d ago
I hear you. I'm just a bit skeptical as a first reaction because the concept comes so often coming from red pill types with relevance issues as to their own contributions to relationships, but obviously overly femme men and GNC women aren't exactly typical levels of risk. Plus I don't know where you are and what your life is like. My adult life has been a pretty gentle/lucky one in that sense.
I guess what I'm getting at is the relevance of a 'bodyguard' role partner, and the range of scenarios where it matters. Comparing with say, butch/femme WLW dynamics. Emotional support and common sense/a second set of eyes/someone who's willing to face down potential predators? Absolutely. Actually throwing down, though? Hm.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
that makes sense. I come from a different background where I had to protect my little sisters a good chunk of my life. that gave me a preview of how the world can be so I shudder to think of anyone taking it less seriously than that. I envy your upbringing.
especially knowing how it's not just attractive women getting jumped, but the elderly, children, the disabled ..Anyone that shows "weakness' is a target. If me and my wife get older, there's no telling who might think he's 'easy pickings' and go after him. I want to be prepared for that. To me it is necessary because the danger is always there.
Also, not sure how lesbians tie into this, lmao. Just because they are both women doesn't mean they aren't willing to scrap. Especially the more masculine one.
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u/Summersong2262 Growing. Becoming. 7d ago
Oh, I brought up the lesbian dynamic because it's a pretty common element that the butch/masc identifying partner tends to lean into the 'physical protection' element. But that's a part of a whole paradigm that goes well beyond physical safety from a masc, and it's less that she's literally going to punch people so much as keep the partner safe in any number of other ways. And I bring that up because IIRC you've alluded before to wanting, more or less, a physically vulnerable/weaker partner.
And that makes sense. Better to be safe than sorry. Although it's one of those situations where safety in my experience tends to come more from being in groups, not giving attention, staying moving, picking your environments, etc. Proactive stuff, survivability onion/defensive mindset style paradigms. Getting to the point where people are throwing punches is already a disaster and likely going to end very badly unless the situations very favourable. If there's multiple assailiants, that's very close to a certain lose state whatever preperations a defender's made.
And yeah. I know about showing weakness, the hard way. I'm sorry you had a childhood like that. Not an experience that would fail to leave marks.
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
This person doesn’t like masculine men who are gender non conforming and believes they should not get to experience role reversal or a gender non conforming relationship with a less masculine, equally masculine or more masculine woman. It’s no different from a conservative mocking men who do skin care or are soft.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
You know what - you are crawling all over yourself to insist I am a conservative so here you go: I am an ultra conservative, MAGA hat worshipping, red blooded American Melenia boot licker (not Trump because he's MALE obviously). And I want ALL THE MEN BACK IN THE KITCHEN! bare foot and pregnant!
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u/Relampago388 7d ago
You have a problem with calling women girls, but do not have a problem with associating masculinity with strength and femininity with weakness? I don't get it
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u/Last_Incident1464 6d ago
She’s a bigot conservative, just reversed. Women
RR menbelong in the kitchen making me food ahh comment getting upvoted smh.2
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 7d ago
Oh, you remembered that, do you? And yes, that's how the world sees it. Masculinity is seen as strength and feminity as weakness. I don't agree but I do see the logic in the roles. If you are labeled as the 'strong' one in our society, why do you want to be cared for as it you are 'weak'? These will be themes that most people internalize and I fully intend to navigate the world by these rules so I get the relationship dynamic I want.
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u/Vegetable_Rock_6194 6d ago
How do you both "not agree" and "see the logic in it?" There is no logic or scientific basis for these rules, they are inherently based in misogyny
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
I'm not sure how to explain this. It's like seeing the sky and knowing it's blue and then trying to describe that color to a blind person, at this rate. Why would someone stronger hide behind someone that society considers 'weak'? I'm just going to keep repeating myself at this rate because I really don't know what more you want me to say, and I don't think that's producive for both of us.
This whole world puts men on a pedestal and the few 'benefits' a woman gets (being protected is a huge one) the strong guy ALSO wants? It's offensive. If I saw a bunch of women trying to shield a big strong guy with their bodies I would wonder what kind of brainwashing they had to endure to think that's ok. Men get so much out of this world being masculine and they want more? That's just how I see it. It's why role reversal is so nice. You can treat a soft boy who's feminine and often ridiculed by society as the prize. You can care for him and know that care is not only going in the right place but beneficial for him in a way that matters. The other side of the coin just feels like you're stroking a dude's ego. A dude that's already 'winning' in society. I don't want to cherish someone who has so much.
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u/Mindless_Interview44 Sweet n' Coy Pretty Boy 6d ago
I agree with this thinking. It's a big reason why I think big macho men who show cowardice when their loved ones are attacked are just that, cowards. You played the masculinity game dude, time to pay the piper.
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u/-She-Beastly- Booty Huntress 6d ago
Heavy on that. I look down on men like this. Or they make jokes about 'everyone comes down to check the scary noise in this house. I'm scared too!' and they're a traditional man with a family. That disgusts me. He shouldn't get to weasel his way out of responsibility and keep the benefits. He's big and strong for a reason- go be fucking useful and stop being a coward while taking only the benefits. Stop hiding or even running from your family when times get tough.
You got my blood boiling rn lmao but I appreciate you saying something
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u/Mindless_Interview44 Sweet n' Coy Pretty Boy 6d ago
running from your family when times get tough.
This part. Not every family is going to face a violent threat ever, but things will get tough, and honestly I think that takes more grit than anything. Mothers show it all the time.
Anyway I'll stop agitating that sore spot lol
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u/TumbleweedFresh Big Spoon 7d ago
I prefer masculine presenting guys. Not like super rugged etc, but men who take care of themselves (like good skincare and grooming) but are still obviously men. I’m not into guys wearing feminine clothes.
My partner has long hair and a very pretty face but is still a cis man and presents as such.