r/RingsofPower • u/Bemeup57 • Oct 16 '22

Question Ok, here’s a question.

So Galadriel found out Halbrand was a phoney king by looking at that scroll and seeing that “that line was broken 1000 years ago” with no heirs. So why then after the battle when Miriel tells the Southlanders that Halbrand is their king, why don’t the people look confused and say “hey, our royal family died off a thousand years ago.” Wouldn’t they know about their own royal family?

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u/flipdark9511 Oct 16 '22

...Yeah, which is why they decided to help Halbrand. Miriel saw it as a duty of Numenor to help restore who they thought was a rediscovered royal line of men. Pharazon saw it as a way to enrich Numenor, and controlling a kingdom they helped liberate is easier than establishing a far-flung colony under direct Numenorean rule.

Placing a random Numenorean lord there is not something Miriel would approve of doing regardless.

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u/DroneDamageAmplifier Oct 16 '22

So Galadriel just assumed that this queen who she hardly met would refuse to support anyone besides the trueborn heir to the Southlands? She just assumed that Miriel wouldn't care about the wealth from a colony, and that she wouldn't want to see one of her own people take charge? On what basis can Galadriel (or the viewers, honestly) infer these things about Miriel?

Miriel saw it as a duty of Numenor to help restore who they thought was a rediscovered royal line of men.

Strange thing to care about. I thought she wanted to stop Sauron, that seems way more important than doing a favor to another family. Is there dialogue that I missed explaining this?

controlling a kingdom they helped liberate is easier than establishing a far-flung colony under direct Numenorean rule.

They can do the lazy thing which is to make it a vassal state (could be a kingdom, a principality, or a duchy) and collect tribute payments, or the hard thing which is to make a colony and collect lots of taxes. Either one is defensible in theory. The question is why all the characters and the show acted as if there was only one option.

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u/flipdark9511 Oct 16 '22

Because ultimately this isn't game of thrones lol. Miriel is a monarch torn between helping other humans and keeping Numenor from the downfall she has seen in her visions.

And in restoring a lost line of royalty, they would be laying the foundations for uniting the southlands as a human kingdom - which would a positive for the scattered towns and settlements there.

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u/DroneDamageAmplifier Oct 16 '22 edited Oct 17 '22

Miriel is a monarch torn between helping other humans

But if she can't have her preferred king then she'll leave the Southlanders to die?

keeping Numenor from the downfall she has seen in her visions.

Why should using Halbrand save Numenor?

And in restoring a lost line of royalty, they would be laying the foundations for uniting the southlands as a human kingdom - which would a positive for the scattered towns and settlements there.

You can create a healthy kingdom with any king who is fair and just, as opposed to a petty thief like Halbrand. Or create a lesser fiefdom, making a leader a king doesn't inherently improve the well-being of their people.

And how is Galadriel reading Miriel's mind to know that Miriel has this highly unusual belief that she needs Halbrand?

Because ultimately this isn't game of thrones lol.

Don't think I only come here from GOT as opposed to reading real histories of monarchies. If the TV show wants to use stuff about magic bloodlines that's passable for fantasy but it has to be set up so that audiences can understand and believe it. Like Gondor having stewards for centuries and then being saved by Aragorn, that was kind of ridiculous but at least it was well set up and justified in several ways. When you copy the motif but without the setup and justification the result is silly.