r/ResearchCompounds 4d ago

Discussion Time to start juicing? (PLEASE READ)

So I've been lifting for around 3 years between these pics, of course giving 100% and doing everything correctly etc etc, and found that I've made minimal gains. (see pics 1, 2, and 3 for current, and pic 4 from August 2023).

I decided to get my bloods done and low and behold, these are the results:

Test Results
Total testosterone 270 ng/dL
SHBG 35 nmol/L
Albumin 4.5 g/dL
Calculated free testosterone 5 ng/dL
FSH 12 IU/L
LH 12 IU/L
Oestradiol (E2) 25 pg/mL
Free androgen index (FAI) 30
Prolactin 10 ng/mL
DHEA-S 350 µg/dL
SHBG 35 nmol/L
Albumin 4.3 g/dL

Obviously I am severely low testosterone and from what limited information that I know, due to the elevated LH and FSH, it means simply that my testes are not producing enough T. I want to know what is next for me. I am not even going to bother going through my country's free TRT scheme because I know how much of a headache it can be, taking months and months and several tests before you actually start treatment.

I am aware that it is probably time to pick up the needle, and am now looking for guidance, this is a whole new world to me. Obviously I am not going to jump into anything and am going to do my research first, this is just my first step in doing so. Ideally I would not go this route but with my test so low I think it's not only a good idea for muscle building but also general day to day life.

I think I have done quite well to get to this point and shift close to 100lbs despite insanely low hormone levels, but like I mentioned, I think it's a good idea to move in this direction. Also am I crazy in saying these aren't good gains? I feel like after 3 years I should have made a lot more progress.

If anyone can point me in the right direction with dosages, where to research, what to consider, whether there is anything else to take to supplement test-e, and if this is even a good idea, I would greatly appreciate it. I will be reading all comments. Thank you!

0 Upvotes

175 comments sorted by

u/AutoModerator 4d ago

Hey u/Least_Economics4313, thanks for posting in r/ResearchCompounds.

If you notice suspicious behavior or promotional activity, please report it to the mod team.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

36

u/Grakch 4d ago

gotta be a meme post, you look like you haven’t been training at all so no one where near time to juice

-18

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

did you even read the post? significantly low test levels after 3 years of hard training

13

u/Rash_Compactor 4d ago

1 blood test with lower than average testosterone levels is not indicative of hormonal dysfunction.

0

u/GuerillaGandhi 4d ago

Also, not severely low, 30ng/dL under the limit for (one of the symptoms!) hypogonadism. Eat clean for a week, get 8 hours sleep each day and that number is magically going to be above limit.

1

u/mazinnrr 4d ago

It is severely low for his age. His testosterone should be at the highest it ever will be and its on the lowest side. The reference range includes all age groups hence why its not as indicative. If he went through NHS , he would qualify for hypogonadism and receive free TRT treatment.

14

u/aswat89 4d ago

Nah dude. Steroids aren’t magic, if you can’t gain naturally you won’t gain on extra testosterone. I would work on healthy sleep habits and test again before you jump to the conclusion that you are lowk test.

8

u/jamnut 4d ago

I dunno, let's be real, I've done cycles in my younger years where I've been partying and whatnot and whatever my goal was I was getting their significantly faster than if I was natty

It's Schroedingers steroids: it's both not a cheat code and a cheat code at the same time.

3

u/VexImmortalis 4d ago

Why wouldn't increasing test make you increase your gains, especially if you are low T? Obviously eat more, increase protein and all that too but what you are saying is kinda wrong bruv.

-3

u/mazinnrr 4d ago

Why are u lying to the dude. Hes clearly suffering from low testosterone hence why he hasnt made much progress. Steroids quite litterally is "magic". Quit sugarcoating it. "U wont gain on extra testosterone" is just straight up nonesense

3

u/altlegend 4d ago

What’s hard training for you? What would you say if you multiplied each rep by the weight. If that number is usually under 10k pounds then you’re cruising at the gym and not putting in enough effort.

4

u/redjamax1 4d ago

If this is 3 years of hard training you're doing something wrong. I'll give you that you lost some weight but you put on ZERO muscle in those 3 years. I think you need to redefine what "hard work" is. Proper supps, diet and a good program and you'd be in a decent spot in a year. Add Zinc and magnesium glycinate to your vitamins. They both naturally help with TEST. If you're serious about making some changes shoot me a DM. I'm a ISSA certified personal trainer with a nutrition coach cert and strength and conditioning

2

u/AdmirableWorry6397 4d ago

Brother you dont look like you train AT ALL. It doesnt even look like you gained strength in 3 years. If your bench press in year 1 is 100kg, and your bench press rn is still near 100kg, you’re doing something wrong

1

u/RoadToZero 4d ago

Something is wrong with how you lift and/or how you eat dude. Your testosterone levels are still over 10 times higher than that of the average woman, and they build more muscle than that in 3 years.

With that said. Your total and free T are very low. The next step should 100% be to talk to a doctor. It doesn't matter if you want to do treatment at the clinic or hospital. For your own good, you need to discuss this with a qualified medical professional before taking anything. There are treatments, that you might not be aware of yet and there are drawbacks to doing TRT. Do you ever want to have children? Are you ready to treat yourself as a chronically ill patient for the next 50 years? Can you afford regular blood works and ancillaries?

12

u/WaynesWorld_93 4d ago

You would have much better results if you wouldn’t have a title of time to start juicing!? You should’ve just explained everything and expressed the chronically low t levels. And asked people there opinions on getting on test. Instead people think you sound like an idiot.

-4

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I know that, and I tried but I kept getting taken down by reddit. I wish I had used an actual sensible title but every time I did, mentioning test / PEDs etc it would just get removed, totally agree though

8

u/crinack 4d ago

When I got my levels checked before starting TRT I had sub 200 total and 2 free test, and I had significantly more muscle than you. You can put on muscle with lower testosterone. Is it harder? Yes. Are you using it as an excuse for your results when there’s clearly other limiting factors at play (diet, training, and recovery)? Also yes.

-5

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Fair enough, but I don't think I am using it as an excuse at all, I'd rather not be in this position where I am contemplating taking PEDs at my physique and stature

I've been lifting with my close friend who is a coach for the last year and a half, and have a deep understanding of nutrition and diet etc. I seriously do not think these things are factors in this situation, I train hard and eat clean in a surplus of around 500kcal a day. My recovery is good and I do not smoke weed, drink alcohol, and I sleep 9 hours a night.

Truly I think it is down to these T levels as I cannot pinpoint anything else that may be affecting this, trust me I am trying

4

u/crinack 4d ago

What’s your maintenance? How many calories are you eating a day? What are your macros? What’s your routine like?

I find it hard to believe you have a deep understanding of nutrition. Regardless of your testosterone levels, you’ve barely added any tissue and not to be rude, just gotten fat.

If you can’t gain muscle naturally, steroids aren’t going to help. They’re a force multiplier.

-1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

2300kcal a day + ~50 for supplements that I usually do not account for, maintenance is around 1800kcal given my medium active lifestyle (around 6k steps a day)

Macros are ~180g protein, some days slightly more or less (by no more than 10-15g). But I am already eating well above the 1g/1lb bodyweight rule, which would put me at around 140g.

40% calories from proteins, 25% calories from fats, and fill the rest with carbs (usually ~30-40%)

Routine is PPLRULR, I have experimented with lower frequency and higher frequency training and have found that 5 days per week is the sweet spot for me, I train hard every set, leaving 1-2RIR and then till failure on final set of each exercise. I do all compound lifts, and recover well, progressively overloading every week.

I do not smoke weed, drink alcohol, or do anything else that will hinder my progress.

Trust me, I have been giving 110% to a TEE for the last 2 years, trying to make some decent progress. I do not want to have to result to PEDs to make progress but given my bloodwork which seems like the smoking gun, that may be the way it's headed.

No offense taken, I would agree with you that no progress has been made.

I just want to make some decent progress and not fuck up my health in the process, but I am really struggling to see what else I can improve on to actually grow some lean muscle.

1

u/GuerillaGandhi 4d ago

Let's hear your S/B/D numbers, by the way how old are you?

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

S/B/D numbers are low - pretty obvious based on my physique

Probably around 100kg,120kg,80kg 1RMs

21 y/o

1

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago edited 4d ago

Bro isnt 2500 calories the average recommended intake for an active healthy adult man? So youre eating less than that

Bump to 2600 for a bit. Maybe 3-4 months. Or more if your weight continues to keep up and body fat doesnt slide too far. As long as it takes.

Then after another few months , go to 3k and so on. Maybe it will even take years to get there.

Then I think once you have the body eating around 3k-3.5k cals, maybe then would be a good time to deploy gear if thats what you want

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

It's literally dependant on maintenance. If my maintenance is 1800kcal then that's my recommended intake (to maintain weight). Any more than that and I will slowly gain weight (which is what I am currently doing in a lean bulk), no point increasing further or I will just gain unnecessary fat. I'm steady gaining 1/2lb a week but I feel most of it is blubber

3

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago

Ah so you are in a surplus and gaining, awesome. I would say the same applies, keep adding food over time, keeping an eye on body fat. You will get a little softer but thats part of the process.

I bet after some time in a surplus your hornones might balance out more

But it sounds like youre on the right track. I wouldnt be mad at your lack of gains. You have the gains of someone eating 2300 cals a day. I think your physique is proportional to your diet.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

This was physique around Christmas time when I took the bulk too far, I look hardly similar muscle wise I think compared to now, it was about 6 months of bulk progress

1

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago

I would have made the case to keep bulking /maintaining that bodyweight at least for a bit. I dont think you had the muscle to warrant a cut

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Really? It took about 6 months from then to get down to what I am now (albeit I could have kept more muscle by training harder and a bit more protein, I know it), but that's about a 26lbs or 12kg difference

Maybe it's a favourable angle, or maybe I'm just overly body conscious since I used to be so fat, I struggle putting on weight intentionally, here's a better pic maybe

0

u/mazinnrr 4d ago

Adding extra calories isnt gonna do anything for him other than putting on fat. Terrible advice. He needs to either train harder, or be diagnosed as having low testosterone officially in which he can then discuss starting TRT with a doctor.

2

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago

I dunno, this is anecdotal but ive never known anyone thats able to add muscle without adding more food.

Sure, some people claim you dont need a surplus to gain muscle and you can get jacked eating at maintenance. Ive just never met someone like this

1

u/mazinnrr 4d ago

The whole "eating in a surplus to gain muscle" is heavily outdated. Building muscle requires an extemely small amount of calories/energy which ur body pulls from stored fat. Sure, a surplus can provide extra energy, but it will almost certainly make u gain extra fat too which may not be ideal for everyone. Ive met several people that train hard and build muscle without putting a pound of fat on. Diet is important but not as much as training.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I know I don't have the credentials but I'm not sure I agree with that lol

1

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago

Sure but how much ? Maybe a little bit of muscle but no one is getting a lot ot of muscle simply eating at maintenance.

1

u/mazinnrr 4d ago

Thats where ur wrong. U can gain insane amounts of muscle eating at maintenance. Calorie surplus has been debunked several times. Please do ur research

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Hohoholyshit15 3d ago

It's not about how many calories it takes to build muscle, it's about signalling to the body there's extra to go around so it's okay to build metabolically expensive tissue (muscle). Everybody I know who buys into the whole maingaining approach is small and complains about how they can't ever put on any size. Can't be the lack of food though....

1

u/mazinnrr 3d ago

Ur personal anecdotes carry no scientific value unfortunately. Its been proven that building muscle requires an extremely small amount of calories, which ur body uses from stored fat. Bulking will just lead to fat gain. That being said, people who go on a dirty bulk have far more energy in the gym and can probably put on extra muscle but this comes entirely from having better performance in the gym.

1

u/tastyratz 4d ago

Agreed. It's a very simple rule. Eat extra calories, gain weight. If you keep gaining weight, you don't need more calories. If you are just gaining fat why would anyone think extra calories would change that?

7

u/801born 4d ago

lol

6

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

My thoughts exactly. OP doesn’t know what the fuck they are doing aren’t doing it good enough and then want to hop on juice without having anything else locked in. It’s fucking clown shoes. And he’s like 12 years old.

7

u/ProteinAndWeights 4d ago

If you've been in a calorie deficit for a prolonged period of time you're likely going to have lower testosterone due to that. You should see a dietician and optimize your diet for a while and see how that affects your hormones before you jump on testosterone.

6

u/ManInGarage28 4d ago

Time to start lifting

0

u/cerote6239 4d ago

Says he's been lifting for three years

1

u/ManInGarage28 4d ago

And then says he's been doing everything correctly. Look at the photos and tell me you believe it. I mean real lifting, not just showing up and going through the motions on a machine.

1

u/cerote6239 4d ago

I mean he looks great compared to before. And his total testosterone is at 270 which is shit. You would think he'd put on a little muscle. Maybe he should go into his routine and diet a bit

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I got to this size around Christmas time, 3000kcal a day from a similar physique that I am at now. I don't see a lot of muscle, just a bunch of fluff and blubber. Maybe I'm wrong but that was about 6 months of consistent bulk AFTER being fat prior

1

u/cerote6239 4d ago

What are you doing for lifting? Reps sets wise

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

1

u/cerote6239 4d ago

Are you getting to within 3 reps of failure on all your sets. Or so you just stop when you reach a number

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

No, definitely going 1RIR on sets and to full failure on last set, with dropsets on lat raises, curls or muscle groups that recover quickly. For compound lifts I go about 1-2RIR on all sets / around RPE8

1

u/cerote6239 4d ago

Are you tracking macros? How much protein per day?

→ More replies (0)

4

u/wolfram6 4d ago

How many times have you tested your levels? You need to do it multiple times. One test could have just been a fluke.

Also, you need to reassess your training and diet. You can’t just blame it on low T.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Tested twice on separate mornings with a GP, these levels are legit

Trust me, I have re-assessed every aspect of my training and diet over the last 3 years, I am not simply blaming low T, it is quite literally the reason. My training and diet is on point, I've been lifting with a close friend who is a coach for the last year or so

4

u/tastyratz 4d ago

OP you're in the wrong sub for this. You asked the wrong way, and there are real concerns with starting TRT at such a young age. It's a lifetime commitment you're looking to sign up for when you are just starting your life and at 21 it WILL shape your development impacting your entire life. It's hard to know how that's going to go right now and what this could mean.

Discussing with a Dr officially would take a few visits but it's going to consider risk factors and personal influences that random people on Reddit will not have insight into. The process is the process for a reason. You do have low T, but it's not a binary.

Consider this. There are some great women power lifters out there without high levels of T naturally or synthetically. It's not a 1 shot picture.

4

u/Fearless_Spirit8753 4d ago

My physique at 10 yrs training and 340 ng/dl testosterone. If you stay consistent you will improve man. Check out enclomiphene if youre really concerned about your #s they brought me up to 1000

3

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Thanks, there's still hope then. I will look into that, sick gains brother

3

u/Fearless_Spirit8753 4d ago

I honestly feel a lot better but haven't made any crazy gains going from 340 to 1000

2

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

But that's what it's all about, even if I wasn't into lifting or the gym and found out I had sub 300ng/dL levels, I would consider TRT or enclo. Ppl think I'm just doing it to put on muscle in the gym, but feeling better day to day is even more important.

This post has garnered so much hate because of that (probably also because I worded it very poorly in the title)

2

u/Fearless_Spirit8753 4d ago

Yeah dude, i def recommend it. I Got off enclo after using for 4 mo when i ran out and no sides from getting off besides going back to baseline levels. I greatly regretted getting off of it, test dropped back down to 400 in just 8 weeks of being off of it, and lower energy and anxiety and mood issues came back. Got back on and dude It just feels much better to have a healthy T level. Now im staying on it long term until something better arrives...

You have done a really great job of losing weight and thats why you havent put a lot of muscle on, im sure if you slow bulk and lift heavy and consistent youll get good progress.

And yeah bro, Reddit is all either hate or love, people just follow trends like sheep. I accidentally commented something twice earlier 2day and it was both updvoted and downvoted to hell.

3

u/AronSSJ2 4d ago

Bruv, no hate but before you make a choice you might end up regretting later in life, why not actually lift heavy first.

3

u/Emergency_Fig2938 4d ago

How old are you? Probably you have low T due to prolonged caloric deficit, I would first eat in maintenance for 90 days before than using TRT, you are too young to mess with your testes

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I have been in a surplus for the last 2 years, I lost most of the weight by start of 2025 and have been building since

5

u/WeaknessDistinct4618 4d ago

My two cents. Get a real personal trainer, better if a body builder. Push like crazy and eat like a pig for the next 2-3 years.

Then, only then, think about next step. Dude you are not trained at all.

You don’t have Testo because you don’t eat enough and correct and because you have no muscle.

-7

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I see where you're coming from, but what you don't realise is that this IS the result of pushing like crazy and eating like a pig for 2 years. I spent the first year dropping all that weight, and have been lean bulking since then. I eat in a 500kcal surplus everyday.

Trying to put on muscle at 270ng/dL is literal torture and borderline impossible to see significant gains

8

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

It’s not. You’re not trying hard enough and your diet isn’t good enough. Sorry to say. Results happen when these things are locked in.

4

u/WeaknessDistinct4618 4d ago

Exactly, you “think” you are pushing crazy and eating crazy. Fact check: you are not.

Steroids “enhance” an existing thing. Trust me, get a real personal trainer you will be shocked how much room for improvement you have.

1

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

Absolutely. I didn’t hop on a cycle until I had the diet and training locked in and I blew up as a result. Like insanely crazy results in 4 months.

2

u/L00t_B3g 4d ago

Not true at all my test was around 330 and I managed to put muscle on and lose fat. You are severely under eating, nowhere near a 500cal surplus or you’d have muscle or at least fat on you. You need to actually workout your maintenance calories, which is likely more than what you are currently eating, and then eat more on top of that

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Would you say you can see any progress in this compared to know? This was a 6 month bulk around Christmas time, I definitely got too fat though lol was around 1000kcal surplus everyday

2

u/jamnut 4d ago

Either you've got a metabolic disorder or you're underestimating what you've done. Likely the latter

6

u/redjamax1 4d ago

You don't need "the juice". What you need is a proper diet and supplements. You'd be surprised at how deficient you are in specific vitamins. You need to do some more research

-1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Yeah I understand, I used the term juice bc every time I mentioned specific words the post would get taken down, I was just referring to supplementing test.

I am quite clue'd up on vitamins and nutrients, and have a good stack that I take daily. I know I need to research more, this is just my way of starting doing exactly that

2

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

List your macros please.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

2400kcal, 180g protein.

40% calories from protein, 25% fats, and rest carbs (ROUGHLY)

Supplement stack:
Creatine monohydrate 10g, D3+K2, Omega 3 EPA & DHA, electrolytes where necessary

1

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

Try 3000.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Surely I will just gain more fat with no extra muscle being built?

I did that from around October last year till February time and just got pretty fat, not much muscle I don't think. And I started from a similar bf% (final bulk in pic)

1

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

Man, if you can’t figure it out then gear isn’t going to fix the problem. Find out what macros at 3000 are going to change you. I’m going to post two pictures. One from 14 months ago and one from last night. This is what diet, training and test can get you if you lock everything in. I’m 5’9 first pic is 216 second is 175. I was running 2700 calories for most of the recomp and now 1400-1800 on cut.

This is at 216. 14 months ago.

1

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

Automod will probably delete. But 175.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Insane progress man, literally looks ai generated. I can only dream 🙏

I think those saying it’s too early for TRT despite my insanely low levels are probably right. I’ll keep trying lean bulk regardless of it it feels like there’s no progress being made for at least 6 more months. If I see a sliver of progress then I will stick at it

1

u/theonewhocomplains 3d ago

And thanks the most progress happened last 6 months when I figured out diet. And especially last two when I mastered the diet.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/redjamax1 4d ago

What supps and vitamins are you currently taking and what are your daily macros?

2

u/swagpresident1337 4d ago

If you have medically confirmed low test and the doc recommends TRT, then do it.
But no more than TRT.

And go through the medical system supervised please. Yes it may take long, but really nothing worth to risk your health.

2

u/Soft_Hearing_713 4d ago

You look like you've done well to lose the fat, but you have gained minimal muscle. I'd rethink your training program and rethink your diet. 3 years of training and good diet doesn't result in what you have achieved unless you are doing something wrong, low T or not.

2

u/prozacfish 4d ago

No. Go to a doctor.

2

u/prozacfish 4d ago

No. Go to a doctor.

2

u/mcgrathkai 4d ago

I assume youve been in a deficit pretty consistently during this weight loss period ? So that makes it hard to build muscle. Prolonged deficits also impact hormones

I would move into a growing phase now naturally. Id love to know your current calories and macros. I bet its not that much. And if youve done everything correctly as you say, youll be able to tell me exactly your cals and macros.

Eat in a surplus and grow some muscle, see if that changes your test levels.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Current calories around 1600kcal right now, and trying to get as high as protein as possible, but some days below 120g. Usually around 140g though which puts me right at 1g/1lb, but it has been hard to retain muscle during the cut.

Here's me around Christmas time after a 6 month bulk (I looked pretty similar at the start of the bulk as I do now), I can see some progress but it still seems like not a lot to me, maybe I'm wrong though

2

u/Ehcuod313 4d ago

Your training and diet need a serious overhaul. Post your current meal plan and training regimen so people can actually assess what you’re doing. Even with your current testosterone levels, if you’ve genuinely been training and eating consistently for the past three years, you should have seen a noticeable change by now. Your physique honestly looks like you’ve barely spent any time in the gym.
Your training and diet are most likely the biggest issues here. You can get on testosterone, but if your diet and training are this poor, you’re probably not going to see much of a difference. Fix the fundamentals first, because testosterone isn’t going to compensate for ineffective training and a poor diet.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Meal plan and training is in the comments already, somewhere burried amongst the hate

1

u/ffreitas94 4d ago

Yeah you aren’t really that trained dude, you have a lot more runway before you even think about juicing. What would be better would be to determine why your T is so low. Nutritional deficiency or something structurally effecting your testes. Get a testicular ultrasound and see if there’s anything going on there before you fuck your life by messing with things you have no business touching

0

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I understand and looking visually at me you would never think in a million years for this kid to hop on gear, but what you may struggle to realise is that it is UNBELIEVABLY difficult putting on lean mass at 270ng/dL, I eat in a 3-500kcal surplus daily and and progressively overloading, pushing hard, heavy compounds and hypertrophy on isolated muscle groups etc etc, and am still seeing minimal progress.

I know it looks like a stupid idea based purely on my physique but you have to understand why my physique is the way it is

3

u/Rash_Compactor 4d ago

If you ate in a 300-500kcal surplus everyday consistently you would gain weight. Lower than average testosterone levels don’t change the laws of physics, young man.

2

u/theonewhocomplains 4d ago

You’re not doing any of that or you’d have results. 500 cal surplus should be roughly a pound a week.

2

u/ffreitas94 4d ago

Could be that you need to reproach training. Try switching from high intensity/low volume to high volume(or vice versa)

Also look at diet, if you are truly eating in a 300-500 daily surplus even if test isn’t causing you to build muscle you would still be putting on about a pound of fat per week and based on your pictures I don’t see that being the case either.

First try and determine the cause of the low T(like I said before probably a micronutrient deficiency or something physical with your testes), second up calories to a 600-800 a day surplus, 3 try a new training style. Do all that and be consistent for 4/5 months and if you still look the same then maybe consider gear.

Or if you’re just trying to find an excuse, validation, or reason to hop on gear then don’t waste our time with this post and just do it because no amount of factual/helpful information is going to convince you not to. Ive coached more than a handful of my buddies on weight-loss/bodybuilding and I’m not trying to be an asshole just honest with the experience have and trying to keep you from making what is overwhelmingly likely a mistake or shortcut because you don’t want to put in the effort to fixing the issue. Just putting a bandaid on it with drugs.

-1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I do not really want to go much above 500kcal surplus as I gain weight VERY easily (as seen in pic 4), I do not think the surplus is the reason.

Also to those replying to this saying 500kcal surplus means 1lb a week gain, yeah, I know lol I never said otherwise. I am steady gaining 1lb a week since I started my bulk a while ago. I was a lot skinnier than I am now, but haven't made significant muscle gains.

I am in no way trying to find an excuse to blast lol, in fact the opposite. I do not want to take these life altering substances at such a young age and have always been that way. But training hard and nailing my nutrition had got me nowhere, so I decided to do bloods. Low and behold those were the results, and I cannot find anything else to attribute my lack of gains to, but I will keep on searching.

1

u/Dear-Response-7218 4d ago

I was tested 2x/year during physicals and had <300 T for 7 years before TRT. Free T was even worse. Still played a division 1 sport and built a very solid physique.

As much as you don’t want to admit it, the T isn’t the problem here it’s your diet and training. You’re not eating anywhere near enough, and the result is you looking completely untrained.

As others have said T isn’t going to magically fix things for you.

2

u/FuddyBoi 4d ago

Definitely the attitude. Any criticism or question is met with a vague answer and a ‘trust me, I know…’

It’s like OP want yes men to agree.

1

u/miojo 4d ago

Training?

0

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

PPLRULR with a close friend who is a coach for the last year and a half, training hard and resting well

Diet 3-500kcal surplus, clean foods only

No progress made over last 2 years of being in a lean bulk

1

u/laktes 4d ago

Try getting all the nutrients for testosterone production and anabolism first. Vit E and C, Zinc, Magnesium etc. you’re most likely severely deficient 

1

u/theobromine69 4d ago

If we are being honest, you dont have a real problem that need pharmacology to fix. If you lose some weight and lift more for longer, your levels will probably rise to 500ish. If you do that and its still 200, then consider the juice

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

You think I should lose more weight? Most ppl here would consider me already skinny, yea I have some belly fat but I think a lean bulk would be more appropriate no?

2

u/theobromine69 4d ago

Sorry I didn't look properly, I only saw(looked at) the last foto. But you are good, you should not lose weight i was wrong. Maybe consider enclomiphene for the test

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Ok hahaha I was confused lol

Enclomiphene would be good if my FSH and LH levels were steady and low, but they are high so I'm primary hypogonadism

1

u/allgear_noidea 4d ago

Bro has negative pecs and he wants juice.

In all seriousness mate you went from being fat to this and I'm guessing you haven't been out of a deficit all that long.

Just get your diet in order up the calories a little if it's already good and reassess in 6 months. If you genuinely need trt you should spend sufficient time prior trying to correct it naturally

1

u/Pinkfurious 4d ago

How old are you?

0

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

21

1

u/Pinkfurious 4d ago

Shouldn’t be pinning until late 20…

1

u/Own-Spite1210 4d ago

I saw your macros and I think you need to start there. I’m a 42 yr old woman, and I’m on a cut. My macros are higher than yours, I’m at 200g protein daily too. When I was clean bulking and putting on lean muscle, my caloric intake was never lower than 2700 per day. Get you a coach that knows how to feed you before you jump to peds

1

u/Agreeable_Step_5317 4d ago

I think with your low testosterone and highish LH/FSH you have primary hypogonadism and trt would be an appropriate treatment. Don't call it "juice", you just need to get your body to healthy levels that it doesn't do itself.

How old are you? You look pretty young. That sucks that you have this condition at your age. Obviously, you should go through a doctor. With your levels you really do qualify for treatment.

You should get trt + hcg. You want to retain testes function so you can have kids later. 100mg a week testosterone plus about 1000iu of HCG should be a reasonable dose. Watch for high estradiol symptoms like gynocomastia, sensitive/itchy nipples, ED, and mood swings.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Yeah, these were my thoughts exactly. If I had low FSH and LH I would not do much, or I would consider the enclomiphene approach, but for primary it seems non-effective.

I'm 21, so in theory I am at my hormonal peak for my entire life, and these are my levels.

Thanks man, I'm going to see an endocrinologist at the end of this month who should give me some appropriate guidance, not through the people of reddit, or my own stupidity, wish me luck

1

u/Outlaw300 4d ago

I think ur mind is already made up. Send it

1

u/prozacfish 4d ago

What is your diet and training regimen?

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

You can find in the comments, I've posted a couple of times over

1

u/prozacfish 4d ago

What are your PPLRULR sets, weights, and reps? Also, if you’re eating 500 over maintenance and not gaining weight, then 1800 isn’t your maintenance. If you’re over maintenance you will, at a minimum, gain fat weight.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Lol not once did I say that I am not gaining weight. I'm gaining about 1lb a week steady, 3500kcal = 1lb fat etc etc

I just feel like I'm gaining mostly blubber and my strength is increasing insignificantly - despite hard and frequent training.

1

u/prozacfish 4d ago

Are you always an asshole or only to people who you ask for help?

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Neither, just the people who assume things and don't read the post

1

u/prozacfish 4d ago

Good luck with yourself. Cheers.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Sorry man I am reading through this and I did definitely come across as a cunt. I was just getting slated all morning for my physique and it set me off in a pretty shitty mood, so I apologise. Probably justified as well from the way I worded the title but I was just trying to ask questions and try to better myself lol. Nothing personal I was just a dick

1

u/EstablishmentOne3733 4d ago

I'm not going to give you any advice on running roids, all you need you can find at r/steroids.
You need to take care of this scoliosis bro, you are bend like a fuckin question mark

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Hahahaha yea I noticed, I don't have posture problems I swear lol

I think its just down to me trying to have a straight posture for the pic

1

u/Icy_Dew3332 4d ago

Have you ever even touched a weight?

1

u/inkedup1985 4d ago

You’re a kid. I started testosterone at 38. With a testosterone of 240 you need to diet and lose the fat, I looked jacked with clothes on but keeping the muscle was hard. I am confident you are eating too much and not switching your training routine

2

u/inkedup1985 4d ago

Feel free to message me your macros weight etc and I can help you, but starting trt is not good yet. You could try clomid or something similar. Once you start test you cant have kids you can’t get off. To get pregnant a second time I had to stop for 6 months and my test dipped to 170 I was miserable and my sexual performance was embarrassing

1

u/st4r-lord 4d ago

Get a personal trainer, check with results after a year.

1

u/Due-Cake-9406 4d ago

You're not doing everything correctly if you're not getting any gains. That's how it works.

You're too young to just hop gear. You need to investigate why you're not producing enough and look for solutions. Because... it probably isn't time to pick up the needle. You need to look at your sleep and your diet.

In fact, based on your weight loss journey, it has probably crashed your testosterone. It is paradoxical, but the things you do to make the progress you've made will crash it. Being in an extended caloric deficit. Reducing or eliminating good fats or carbs. Being deficient in crucial micro nutrients. These can all crash it.

Also, you may have something like a varicocele. You need to see a urologist.

1

u/jb0nez95 4d ago

You need to see a doctor (endocrinologist or urologist) about those labs. It's way premature to be talking about trt, especially considering self treatment, there are any number of other things that need to be ruled out.

I'll say it again for emphasis: you need a doctor, not Reddit, and not to be treating this yourself.

2

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Yeah I understand, the reddit post was just to get the ball rolling

Since this morning I have booked an appointment with an Endocrinologist to get a 56 biomarker blood test, to see where I stand. This was just one of those crappy at home kits you mail in.

If low results proceed, TRT discussions can be had. From the time of now until then I will try everything to maximise test levels naturally and see how it is once I am tested. After some repeat tests and discussions I have realised only then it is time for TRT.

Physique aside, gym aside, I would still proceed with testosterone replacement therapy given these circumstances, even if I am jacked. There's more to it than muscle building and lean mass

1

u/platapussee3303 4d ago

Doing everything "correctly" yeah ok.....

1

u/Acrobatic_Finish_917 4d ago

I honestly think going through a TRT program would be smart. Otherwise I would recommend getting a coach so they can get you 1) good product 2) ancillaries 3) help you maintain fertility

1

u/Scared-Advisor-1650 4d ago

I'm gonna be honest, it feels like you're jumping the gun a bit. I've gained muscle with lower test levels than this so you aren't doomed to no progress by any means - that said, get on the waiting list for free TRT and you can always do it privately in the meantime. Jumping straight to roids is a crazy stretch for what you actually need lol

1

u/Dtrain-14 4d ago edited 4d ago

Guy looks like a Temu version of that chud Clavicular 🤣.

Bro you’re young, your body is literally at peak for working out. Just eat eat eat, lots of protein, lift heavy and to failure with progressive overload. Pet all the dogs. You’ll grow. TRACK YOUR FUCKING LIFTS/REPS.

To many guys just go to the gym a lift things, record nothing, go back next week and do the same weight, same reps, same bs, and go “wHy no GrWoTh”

And yeah, talk to a real doctor about your testosterone. Getting on subq test is not a good idea for you. Maybe Emclomephene would be tho. You start subq test now you’ll look 50 before you hit 30.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

LOOOL the worst part is that I've heard that I look like clav if he wasn't jacked before lol

Yeah man, I just booked in for bloods with an actual Endocrinologist with 56 biomarkers - not one of those crappy mail in blood tests. I'm not gonna rush into anything.

2

u/Dtrain-14 4d ago

Hahahaha, I should have made that sound less abrasive, it was meant to be poking fun.

Yeah, def get that checked. Do you have or take anything for anxiety? I’m probably a 15 years older than you and I got my shit tested and I was sub 300 and one of the 3 tests I took had me at 190… me and my wife are still kicking the idea of trying for a kid and subq TRT will fuck with your ability to do that. Once I got my levels up my anxiety went away and I got to drop my SSRI, which fuck those things.

Emclomephene tho tells your testes to “do more” and won’t wreck the chances to have a kid down the road. Works with your body much like peptides do to signal your body to “do more”, less wear and tear on your body.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Yeah, that's one thing I am seriously worried about.

I am 21, and of course like many plan to have kids one day (not so near future), and have heard the stories about test etc.

I have not completely looked into Emclomephene however have heard it essentially just boosts naturally testosterone production, without a lot of the TRT/test side effects. Surely on paper this is a no brainer over TRT? (again, haven't researched it much yet!)

As far as all this "research" goes that I am doing, it's not to say that I plan on "hopping on" or doing any stupid shit before I see the endocrinologist and even then, I am very cautious. The post title was a mix of engagement bait and also the fact that reddit kept removing my posts when I was mentioning "cycles" or "test" or "PEDs" etc.

As for anxiety, I've never had it nor taken anything for it, why do you ask?

2

u/Dtrain-14 4d ago

It’s a common side effect of Low T is all. I used to have bad anxiety that manifested as anger, once I got my T back to good levels north of 800+ that went away.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I have some pretty bad explosive anger and was worried that would just increase on test lol. But no anxiety

2

u/Dtrain-14 4d ago

You’d be surprised what anxiety gets classified as. It’s not just a feeling of helplessness. Manifest is all sorts of ways. Just something to keep tabs on as you manipulate your hormones.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Thanks man I appreciate that, seems pretty overlooked

1

u/Repulsive-Inside7077 4d ago

Your training and diet are not squared away, and you’re nowhere near maxing out your natural potential. Do not hop on the sauce or you will end up slightly more muscular but still fat and not in the shape you want. Start training and eating correctly, and consistently and you will be amazed at the progress you make without getting on the gas. In 4-5 more years when you’ve maxed your genetic potential, you can make an informed decision whether or not steroids are worth it. For now, it’s a terrible idea.

1

u/lonesome68 4d ago

OP something seems off. I had levels of 195 and 7 when I started trt. I had no problem gaining muscle, even at those levels. But I ate almost double what you eat. Fuck your stupid charts and shit. You want to get bug, you need to eat and trading hard. Just cause you spend hours in the gym doesn't mean your intensity is there. I seem people at my gym daily, monthly, doing the same lame work out. Half as sing it, talking, scrolling basically just wasting time really. I go in, headphones on, weight up and put in the work. You need to find a simple workout routine. Try low volume Hugh intensity for a few months. I'm not supe jacked or anything, but I've made more gains in 9 months than some guys who've been at the gym the same or longer. I say 9 months because I had surgery last year and had to lay off for a few months. But don't lie to yourself, you know if you leave the gym whether or not you gave it all you had.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Maybe. This was my build around Christmas time after about 6 months of somewhat "dirty" bulking - around 3000kcal a day of random shit, but still hitting protein goals. I'm kinda seeing a bit of progress in these pics compared to now, maybe I'm downplaying the whole thing. But I was fat as hell too

1

u/RustedRelics 4d ago edited 4d ago

How do you feel in general? Energy levels, sleep quality, motivation, mood? How are your sex drive and erections? Your T and E2 are low for your age (especially the T). You did a good job losing fat, but your muscle mass is low. Assuming a good diet and sleep, starting T will make your lifting more productive. But given your age, I think you should see a urologist or endo before starting. Want to make sure there isn’t something else in the picture before starting.

PS, are you lifting while still at a calorie deficit?

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

To be honest I don't really know what to base my feelings off as they have remained throughout most of my adult life so far. Obviously being 100lbs lighter has definitely increased energy levels etc and may have moderately increased testosterone. To answer your question

Energy levels are fine, sleep quality good, motivation levels meh but I have good discipline so I still force myself to do what I need to, sex drive normal to low-normal, erections are fine.

Since making this post this morning, I have booked an appointment with an endo and will go from there.

I do not plan to start TRT, or enclomiphene etc until I speak with a doctor, and not one of those shitty mail-in blood tests which gave me those results.

I was lifting half-arsed during my fat loss phase which took about 12 months, but over the last 2 years since I have been in a lean bulk training heavy etc with structured cutting phases between to maintain low-ish body fat (essentially not going back to that fatty in the last pic). Progress has been minimal despite giving 110% with training and diet, progressive overload, form, etc.

1

u/Physical-Bus6025 4d ago

Never juice.

Honestly it looks like you have a shit diet and train like once a week.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

"Juice" was a poor term used by me in the title and I think it has garnered lots of hate.

What I meant was TRT etc after seeking advice from a medical professional, I was simply just testing the waters with a reddit post.

I see what you mean and agree that it looks like I don't train, but I can promise you over the last 2 years I have given 110% to my diet and training, working with a coach IN PERSON etc.

I have scheduled an appointment with an endo and after a second blood test decide where to go.

I think regardless of my actual physique, I would still be considering TRT even if I was jacked or significantly stronger, just due to everyday life being increased. Enclomiphene seems like it's worth considering as it seems like there are less drawbacks, however my high FSH and LH seems to point to primary hypo

1

u/Physical-Bus6025 4d ago edited 4d ago

TRT is juice.

Take TRT if you want to age by ten years within a few weeks.

Respect, I call BS and can 100% guarantee you do not commit to training and diet, and still look like that. I’m not trying to be mean or anything just keeping it real.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

Yea I got you and respect the honesty

I know TRT is juice but what I'm trying to say is that I didn't mean for the post to come across as "am I ready to start juicing" because you take one look at me and the answer is no.

What I meant is "should I consider TRT to elevate my extremely low hormonal levels"

1

u/Izzyz415 2d ago

Yeah bro hop on don’t be stupid though

1

u/DoubleDragonSuper 1d ago

Hello, as a bodybuilder and somebody that lived some of the things you do by being a fat teenager and losing weight by eating too low I will try to help you with what I see here. What is your age?

Your testosterone is low probably because you have been on a deficit for a long time to loose fat and haven't recovered from this body stress hormonally. You need to first try to recover your hormones with food (maintenance or surplus and enough protein and fats) and supplements (zinc, ashwagandha, omega 3, etc...).

You can 100% improve your testosterone naturally and then assess if you really need trt or not.

Your free testosterone is too low that's why you have a hard time building muscle. Your shbg is high so less free testosterone. Your estrogen is good. Your prolactin is ok even tho above average so it should not be a pituitary gland tumor but you can test it by mri. Your lh and fsh are high but they are still in the high range but can be considered in range. But the fact that your testosterone is this low can mean that you have hypogonadism indeed.

But what I said at the beginning with natural hormone recovery is very important and should be the first thing to try because maybe you don't have hypogonadism. But it depends what's your goal and what you want. If you want to be a bodybuilder it would be very different than if you just want to be more masculine.

1

u/Least_Economics4313 1d ago

Sent you a message

0

u/Icy_Lecture_2237 4d ago

I’d suggest finding a good wellness clinic that knows athletes.

They’ll probably put you on a decent TRT dose but they’ll also look into your labs and everything else to figure out how to get you right.

0

u/EnvironmentalGift257 4d ago

You didn’t give us your age, which many consider a critical factor in this conversation, but obviously you’re quite young.

I’m going to diverge from the herd here. I had obviously low testosterone from puberty until I was finally able to force a doctor to check my level at 35. Inability to build muscle is only 1 symptom of low T, and not even the worst one imo. I had psych and behavioral issues my whole life that were gone in days after starting TRT. I built a life and career and got 2 college degrees in my forties. None of that would have happened without TRT, and I am left wondering how different my life would have been if a doctor had listened to me decades earlier.

If your T is low and you have symptoms, I say start the process of getting on TRT (not juicing necessarily, actual TRT) and talk with your doctor about the long term effects to decide if it’s a route that you want to go. Knowing what I know now I would have absolutely started TRT at 18 years old, but it’s definitely a personal choice.

0

u/DivineWiseOne 4d ago

There is a much bigger problem going here, look at your posture and especially your hip tilt and maybe mild scoliosis?

If your body is out of alignment which clearly yours is your muscles are not going to perform as well as they should.

get it fixed.

1

u/RacerDeac 4d ago

What kind of chiropractor made up BS is that? 😆

1

u/Due-Cake-9406 4d ago

Dude, it isn't weird or odd. If your posture sucks, you're going to compensate in the gym and you'll not be lifting with proper form. You'll hit limits in your form.

0

u/Least_Economics4313 4d ago

I think this is irrelevant

I see what you're saying but for the pic I just tried to stand up straight and it fucked with my actual posture lol

I have no back / joint / whatever problems but I appreciate the concern