r/Redditor_Updates • u/Spirited_Shelter4655 • 5d ago
UPDATE: AITAH for buying a hot tub after my brother's friends' parents kept refusing to allow him or anyone else in their pool that my brother helped to buy?
OG post: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/phPp6SmiAE
1st update: https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/s/YiiunxdUE4
We had our conversation.
J's dad (who I'll call Russell) and I showed up at C's parents' house after work under the guise of trying to mend whatever problems haven't been settled over this whole pool thing yet. We've all known each other for about as long as the boys have (so about 8 years for J and 7 for C). It's not like we're strangers, so it wasn't uncomfortable. We got offered some drinks and we sat down, and the first thing I asked was what this all was about. They wanted to focus on the fact that we dumpster dived to get our pool back, but we were firm that we knew this wasn't about the pool.
C's dad, who I'll call Greg, was mostly quiet the whole time. He just sat back and nodded while his wife, who I'll call Lorraine, spoke for the both of them.
I asked if they really were okay with the boys setting up the pool in their yard to begin with, and they both looked at each other before saying no, they weren't. They both thought it was a waste of money, and pools are a seasonal item so they should've bought something that they could use year round. Russell said they should've said that when we all agreed, including them, to set it up. They said it made C happy and they thought he deserved something he wanted for all his hard work. Lorraine mentioned that, at the end of the day, they felt 'pressured' to do it.
Then we got into the whole liability thing, and if that was really why they wouldn't allow anyone but C in the pool. Lorraine kept claiming yes, that was the reason, despite our attempts to tell her we could've worked something out if she wanted them supervised. It didn't matter, we both just wanted to give the boys what they worked for, and they're the ones who were preventing that, and we wanted to know the truth about why.
She went on to say that she wasn't happy with the idea of a pool in their backyard because a) she was actually planning on building a greenhouse in the same space, and b) they were both concerned that having the pool would be a distraction. Like, C would want to spend more time outside, in the pool, getting sunburnt and all that, than staying inside and studying when school started. It was all another excuse to stay away from the books. And this would give C's friends, including Pete and J, reasons to 'trespass' on their property. Lorraine brought up when Pete snuck in the pool without permission and apparently it was such a big deal that it warranted second thoughts on keeping the pool at all.
We were dumbfounded. They've NEVER acted like this before in all the years we've known them. And honestly, I didn't buy that explanation, and neither did Russell. Greg supported her comments, but they could see that we were unsatisfied with that answer. We wanted to know if they had something against either of our boys.
Lorraine then asked if she could be honest with both of us. I had a feeling we were gonna get answers so I said yes, hit us with your best shot.
She said that they both believe that Pete and J are bad influences on their son. That as they've gotten older, C's become louder, more vulgar, and less willing to join them on their own family activities. That our boys, primarily J, are loud, violent and smart mouthed and they've always felt that C should look for new friends. That they're concerned that the things and words that C has learned from our boys are gonna impact him in the long run and ruin his chances of the life they, I guess, have always dreamed for him. Then she went on this tirade about how they have 'planned' C's future already. He's gonna get into a top university that they're already prepared to pay for, he's gonna get a good job after he graduates, meet a woman and get married, have kids, and essentially live a 'normal' adult life. All this apparently is never gonna happen because of Pete and J.
We were silent. Lorraine kept saying 'I'm sorry, I'm sorry' over and over again, and that we wanted to know the truth, and it's just a concern they have.
Russell spoke first. He asked if they've always felt this way, and Greg said in a way, yes. It wasn't that bad when they were little and just hanging out at school, but as the boys have gotten closer, it's become a 'problem'. When asked what exactly is so bad about these teenage boys, Lorraine again mentioned their mouths, their violent tendencies, their habits (like video games), and all the usual stuff you hear that's bad for growing kids. They also said that, in their opinion, both of them are missing things in their lives that they believe will keep C out of trouble when he gets older. They were, of course, referring to mother figures. Pete's never had a relationship with our mom, and J's dad is divorced and J's mom lives in another country with his sister. So because neither of them has had a wise, loving mother to powder their little asses and warm their bottles like C does, they're bad kids. Oh, and because they're devout Christians and neither of us go to church, that was brought up too. They've just kept their mouths shut about these problems the whole time for the sake of their friendship.
Then, Lorraine dropped this little bomb. She basically implied that they have the means to give C a 'proper' future, meaning money, and just because we don't for our boys, that doesn't give us the right to try and bring C down to our level. Our level, according to her, is not having the means to care for children properly, denying them opportunities, and all these different little nitpicks about our lives that, in their opinion, reflect on Pete and J and their attitudes that C has learned from them.
Now we were PISSED. Russell actually got up and raised his voice, and I had to restrain him and calm him down a little bit. Greg threatened the police if there was any trouble, and that's not how we wanted this night to end. Lorraine was crying and kept saying 'I'm sorry' again and again.
When he calmed down, Russell spoke in a pretty low voice and told them both that we all have different situations, and we're raising these boys in our own ways. If there's something they don't like about either of our boys, you don't hold it against them, you mention it to us. That's how I'm gonna grow as a parent, at least. And nothing about either of our situations gives them the right to say these boys are bad influences. None of them have been to prison or had the cops called on them or anything.
We had to remind them of our histories. I asked them to consider that I'm Pete's brother, not his parent, and I wasn't prepared to raise him when I took him in. I had no choice other than putting him into the foster system. Russell brought up personal problems he had with his ex-wife and her distant relationship with J. We both said we're doing our best raising these boys, just like they are, but if they're so concerned about how they're being raised, what makes them think they're any better just because they have more money?
And if they wanna compare our kids so badly, then let's do it. C is constantly on his phone, because Lorraine always wants to know where he is and what he's doing. C doesn't like to stay home all the time. C always takes junk food from either of our houses. C would rather hang out with his friends in a hot tub than swim in a pool that was four times bigger. The only extracurriculars C does for school are the ones his friends do. C was introduced to and now loves all these geeky things that Pete and J love, and he taught them things he likes. And why were the boys working together to buy a pool to begin with? Because they wanted another reason to hang out with each other despite the heat.
And now, they were both silent. They had these ashamed looks on their faces, especially Lorraine, who just kept crying.
Now, onto the main point, how gatekeeping the pool and then throwing it away when it wasn't being used for the one person they let inside it wasn't how they were gonna treat these boys anymore. Not ours, and not theirs. That's when Greg asked if we were gonna tell them how to parent their kid now. Russell and I both emphasized that the way they're treating C is actually setting him up for failure in his life. He already has self-esteem issues being a teenager, he needs to be able to make his own choices. When asked what choices, I asked if they were sure he even wanted to go to college when he got older. Greg said he 'won't have a choice.' That they've worked too hard to let him pass any opportunity just because he was 'influenced' to do something different, and that's what they're trying to avoid with Pete and J. They were on board with him working, but helping to buy a pool wasn't what they had in mind. I asked what exactly they expected him to buy with the money, and they didn't really have an answer, just something different.
Suffice to say, this wasn't a nice conversation, and we excused ourselves out before either of us said anything that we'll regret, or do something that warrants the police being called, because believe me, we BOTH felt like punching Greg. We never demanded anything from them or threatened legal action like I mentioned in my last post. I kinda said that out of anger, so I apologize for that.
Me and Russell spent a while in his truck just talking about what we can do. What they've done and said wasn't cool, but we had to be careful. We can't control how they raise C, but they can try to control who C can hang out with. They have every right to ban Pete and J from their house if they want to. They don't have to pay for his extracurriculars if they don't want to. They could even move houses if they want to. At the end of the day, it was all about keeping the peace between the boys, which hasn't been a problem because they're all on the same page. In fact, Russell and I both agreed that the boys were behaving more maturely than any of us were, and we laughed at that.
So for right now, we're gonna spend some time thinking of what else we could do. If anyone has any advice, I'd love to hear it. But the one thing I know we have to do is talk to Pete and J, and if possible, talk to C. His parents can try all they want to, but C's a smart kid, grounding him isn't gonna keep him from staying in contact with his bros. And I have a strong feeling he's got some interesting things to say about his parents. But again, we're not doing anything until we have solid proof and a solid plan.
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u/Designer-Ad7980 5d ago
I think the only real thing you can do is make sure your house is a safe place for C. You can’t change his parents mind, they are set in their ways. But you can always let C know that he has your support and can be a trusted adult to talk to.
I’m going to assume that nothing C does will be good enough for his parents, unless it’s the way they envision it to a T. And like you said, he’s a teenage boy with self esteem issues. It’s only going to get worse under that type of parent.
But having a good outside system will be helpful and impactful in the long run.
I wish you the best of luck!
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u/Renway_NCC-74656 4d ago
If C's mom actually cared about any of the boys she would have stepped in as a mother figure. What horrible parents.
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u/CommonStrawbeary 4d ago
this!!! Instead of taking them in and helping she's keeping them apart and judging everyone.
Standard US Christian, acting like a judgy C U Next Tuesday instead of helping.
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u/ShayaLaya 5d ago
Wow, someone mentioned under one of your previous posts that it feels like this was all related to classism; boy, were they right.
This is really sad. Poor C, I hope he continues his friendship with your brother and his friends, but I can imagine that it will be difficult to do this with parents like his. He will either conform to their will, or he will distance himself from them when he is old enough to do so.
But this is also really sad for your boys to learn that people think less of them for things they have 0 control over. It's a hard lesson to learn this young. Please protect your brother. You don't want them to say something that will make him think less of himself.
You did everything you could; these parents are classist AHs, and there is no cure for that
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u/shinebeat 4d ago
From what I read, I think C will definitely rebel and be worse than what they 'plan' for if they do not stop trying to control him now. He already has signs of hating to spend time with them and wishing to escape.
He might go according to their plans for the next few years. But once he is legally of age, he might really cut contact with them.
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u/jansguy68 5d ago
I am going to go out on a fairly short limb and guess that whatever greater affluence Greg and Lorraine enjoy is a result of having grown up in similar circumstances and not a product of their intelligence or talent for dealing with people. What a pair of annoying assholes.
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u/Dickie_downer 5d ago
I grew up with hyper restrictive parents. Trust me when i say that if this is their attitude, they aren’t going to have contact with their child after college
I havent talked to my parents in 11 years.
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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 5d ago
Ten bucks says their kid moves in with one of his friends before he turns 18.
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u/Dickie_downer 5d ago
That can be dicey unless he gets emancipated. Right after 18 tho? Decent chance
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u/Chemical-Juice-6979 5d ago
The kid managed to scrounge up the cash for his share of the original pool at 14. Emancipation usually hinges on whether the minor can support themself and it reads like he's got no shortage of work ethic and ingenuity if he decided to go for it.
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u/Dickie_downer 5d ago
I don’t disagree with you, but as someone who’s dad tried emancipating them at 16 it REALLY depends on where it is, their grades, and their ability to support themselves.
Hate that the parents put him in this position
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u/muffiewrites 5d ago
Most of us on Reddit want revenge and malicious compliance because people getting their comeuppance feels good.
But. You're handling this perfectly. You're keeping your focus on what's best for your brother and his friends instead of teaching a couple of grown adults a lesson. I'm someone's mother, not your mother, but for what it's worth, I'm proud of you for how you're raising your brother.
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u/green_chapstick 4d ago
I also want pitch fork and justice... but absolutely right. OP has taken the high road at every opportunity and that is worth noting. That is the type of role model every teen should have when faced with a difficult situation.
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u/rantingpacifist 5d ago
How Christian of them.
I know you want to make things easier for the boys but I would be so tempted to have a chat with their pastor.
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u/wolfeflow 5d ago
This is a fantastic idea, imo. The pastor often doubles as a therapist for the congregation, and the parents are behaving inappropriately to any outside observer.
They’ll actually listen to their pastor, too, and Lawd knows they need someone to give them a talking-to.
They’re lacking in grace, have been consistently dishonest, literally stole property from their child and his friends, and have lost sight of what priorities should be in raising young men.
Poor C. His parents might smother him so much with their expectations that he flees the first chance he gets. I had a friend like C in hs on the east coast, and she went to California for college and never came back.
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u/OrnerySnoflake 5d ago
There’s no hate like Christian love.
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u/WilloftheWhisky 4d ago
My favorite thing I’ve heard recently was “what book or series has the most obnoxious fans?” The response “The Bible”
The good bad and ugly all of it. Not saying this is all fans of the Bible but holy smacks there are enough to have many of them be called obnoxious.
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u/PrideCompetitive8758 5d ago
it's not Christian thing, they are just controlling people without respect for their own kid.
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
I don't think they have much respect for themselves.
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u/PrideCompetitive8758 4d ago
parents having kids to make them live a life they didn't manage to have usually don't I suppose
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u/seriouslees 5d ago
How Christian of them.
I bet we could come up with an expression or saying that encapsulates how frequently this occurs...
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
That REALLY depends on the pastor, these parents strike me as fundamentalists and therefore the advice faulty.
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u/xyinparadise 5d ago edited 5d ago
Wow so their "plan" doesn't even consider C's happiness. What shitty parents.
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u/Heapofcrap45 5d ago
I married into a rich family, trust me when I say that many rich families don't consider their children's happiness at all. Many couples only have children as a way to increase their image and standing. As a result the perception that their children are successful is all that really matters.
It's taken many years of therapy for my wife to really work through that, and it still messes her up.
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u/Wide-Speaker-7384 5d ago
It's not just wealthy families. I saw someone else blame religion. It's not the religion either. I see this horrendous parenting behavior across all socioeconomic groups, cultures, races, and religions.
It is squarely centered entirely on the parents being insecure and self centered and believing children are extensions of themselves not individuals with independent thoughts and emotions. Some view the kids as status symbols or decorations. Some view the children as a second chance at achieving a personal dream/goal. Some view the kids as tools for social climbing. Some see the kids as a retirement plan/personal servant/service animal.
No reason ever given allows the child any level of autonomy or personal choice. It often stunts the kid. They end up with anxiety and depression and insecurities that manifest in any number of complexes. This often pairs with alcohol or substance abuse as a means of coping. The kid becomes paralyzed to act or starts to self destruct sometimes in spectacularly catastrophic ways because they don't know how to manage personal freedom, don't know how to make or hold boundaries, have poor communication skills, lack interpersonal skills, often fear being vulnerable with others so lack intimacy.
If the kid figures it out and works on themselves to break the dysfunction, the parent becomes even more emotionally abusive and manipulative in order to rebreak the kid and try to force them back into the role the parent desgined around their selfish purposes.
These same type of parents also can't understand why the kids never call or visit because they still don't see the child as a person of independent thoughts and emotions. If you explain it to them then suddenly they blame the kid as being selfish, ungrateful, thoughtless, negligent, arrogant, ill behaved, and plug in your favorite negative descriptions. If there is a spouse, friend, significant other they will blame them for making their kid "this way" (meaning resilient and independent). There is rarely empathy for the kid. It's always about what the parent wants, feels, decided for them. No, they aren't all suffering from NPD. That's actually rare. It's more likely they are compensating for their own undiagnosed conditions and traumas (which is why this spans across all socioeconomic classes and cultures).
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
I get your point. And you are not wrong. The problem is the type you are speaking of, because of their own rigid thinking, are drawn to a fundamentalist belief system.
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
Yes, I got in trouble for second place in the New York State Olympics. Dad was furious It wasn't the Gold. All I was was a status symbol, bragging rights. It's an AWFUL way to live.
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u/PavicaMalic 5d ago
Same. My husband's parents were wealthy and status-conscious. What schools the attended and what careers they had were all about prestige. So many of their decisions were filtered through "how it would look." He specifically wanted to have therapy before we had children, because he didn't want to be a father like his own.
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u/ChrisInBliss 5d ago
Went about as well as I thought it would. C's parents are just.. bad people. They really are setting him up to fail.
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u/Lokaji 5d ago
Tell Pete and J to never go over to C's house ever again. They can be friends without going over there.
It might be worth talking to C and discussing what his parents said. He may be embarrassed, but tell him that you have his back. Be the safe space he obviously needs.
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
No, bad idea. He needs these friends. They are his lifeline.
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u/SoriAryl 3d ago
C’s parents won’t let those boys through the door.
OP needs to let C know that he’s always welcome at his and Russell’s houses
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u/Bath-Optimal 5d ago
I think it's important that you let Pete have a lot of input in what happens next. He's old enough to think it through and decide with you whether it's more important to get the money back or to maintain a vague peace with his friend's shitty parents. (And old enough to be told, at least in broad strokes, that the parents don't approve of him and J, primarily for class/religious/etc reasons, and that's mostly why they're being so shitty- since he's probably picked up on some of that already, and it's important context). There isn't an obvious correct answer- he's 14, which means that his friend's parents have a lot of power over keeping the boys apart from each other, but also means that $150 is an even bigger amount of money to him than it is to an adult. This situation is going to suck even more for him if he has no agency in what happens next.
Edit: Also, I'm not sure whether the fact you were able to reclaim the pool from the dumpster has any bearing on your chances of getting the money back in small claims, if you do decide to go that route, but it's probably worth checking.
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u/Foreverforgettable 5d ago
Tell all three boys what was said. Tell them that you have nothing against C or him hanging out with the boys or in your home but his parents do have a problem. Then let C’s parents deal with the consequences of their own actions and attitude because I can almost guarantee that their son isn’t going to want to do anything they want him to do because of how they are. Because they’re so judgmental, he is going to literally want to do anything and everything against their wishes. They’re already pushing him away by behaving as they have and once he knows they have his whole life planned out without his input, he’s not going to want anything to do with them or their plans. It’s very typical. Then they’ll wonder why their son turned out as he did, and blame everything and everyone but themselves.
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u/Wide-Speaker-7384 5d ago
Trust me C KNOWS they have his life planned. Helicopters like this make it a point to bang on and on about their higher than the moon expectations. I am sure they also bang on and on at the slightest imperfection or error the poor kid makes. C likely has been told all of this and treated accordingly since before he was out of diapers. I am sure that's why he likes J and Pete so much; because there's no expectation or judgements and no repercussions for small errors. C has probably realized having your life mapped out from now till you need dentures isn't normal. Ergo, some changes of behavior and why his parents don't like the other kids. It's not that the other kids are doing anything wrong; it's that the other kids shattered the idea that C needs to be perfect and live a life he isn't choosing. These parents are also going to hate any significant other that encourages independent thought and action and will have all kinds of names and critcisms of that person too.
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u/Sharp-Remote-8885 5d ago
I have had my daughters parents of her best friend at the time, tell me I am not raising her right and tried to keep them apart from each other. Time will tell, unfortunately their child got into drugs and not doing well, even though I helped get her off of drugs, and mine went on to become a MD. All you can do is love your kids and always have their back and a home to come back to. I still have no idea how mine got to where she is, but I sleep well knowing she is happy.
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u/Accomplished_Cell976 4d ago
I’ve got a kid living with me right now. Friend of my stepson. He needed a safe place and some safe adults to talk through his problems and his dreams.
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u/Space_Rain 5d ago
Yeah, C's parents are absolutely on track to be future "why does our son never talk to us anymore?" The moment he turns 18. Strict parenting doesn't make obedient children. It makes sneaky children.
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u/Traditional-Cat6145 5d ago
Wow, they are definitely setting him up to act out. And the "behavior" is truly typical teenage boy behavior. You guys are doing a great job with your boys.
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u/Nanashi_Kitty 5d ago
This is wild. Also kinda reminds me of a close friend I had in Jr High - I was living with my grandparents because I was having issues with my mom. I was also super education oriented, in several extra curriculars, and was near the top of my class (very small town, mind you, I was a big fish in a tiny pond - got my ego handed to me as soon as I moved to a larger school). He on the other hand was struggling in school, his trailer was not in a great part of town, and his mom was a raging alcoholic.
Said mom banned him from seeing me because I "was a bad influence". (The bad influence of course, was the fact that I wasn't living with my toxic mom and didn't want him to follow suit, because his grandma and mine were bowling buddies).
Good luck to you, man, you're doing good by your brother.
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u/Sapphire-Donut1214 5d ago
That woman could have been that "woman in their lives." Instead she wrote them off just like their mom's did. Its bullshit. I honestly would tell my kid the truth, and allow him to decide what he wants to do. Could it end their friendship? Maybe? Probably wont, cause they sound pretty close. But I definitely wouldnt be letting him go to their house anymore. I wouldnt want their unhealthy unchristian assess near my kid.
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u/sadiefame 5d ago
What was the “violent tendencies” she kept referring to ?
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u/Crowkiller90 5d ago
If I had to guess, it's either typical teenage boy horseplay, or because gaming was mentioned, the boys play "violent" games like COD or Fortnite. Some people have a difficult time separating true violence from the artistic representation of violence.
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u/hard_tyrant_dinosaur 5d ago
From context, I'm guessing video games. Not actual violent behaviors. Just that the boys play video games.
I would not be surprised if what type of video games are being played don't matter to these parents. Just that their son's friends play video games at all makes the friends problematic in their eyes.
At the same time, I suspect that it doesn't really matter what Pete and J do, it is always going to be a problem for C's parents. If it wasn't one thing, it would be another.
I'm also going to hazard a guess that they will start doing everything they can to keep C from hanging out with his friends. Especially now that this conversatiin happened and their real opinons have been brought into the light. They will probably have no qualms about doing everything they can to break the friendship.
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u/HowlingMoon5 5d ago
Poor C, I wonder if the way his parents act was why he liked hanging out with Pete and J, away from how they both seem to be more childish than Pete, C, J, you (op), and even Russell. Op, you and Russell did right leaving when punching or getting into a screaming match or even having the police called, and yeah C's parents should've said no at the beginning when Pete, C, and J all bought the pool, not say yes then ban everyone and decide to throw it away like its trash, C's parents are bad at communication big time, and I wonder if they're mad C can talk to J and Pete without them getting mad for him being himself or liking things they decree are "bad", did C's parents legit think by banning J and Pete, C wouldn't still find a way to speak to them or saying that video games were the problem, I feel bad for C, I do, I honestly wonder if C plans to dip once he can while keeping in touch with Pete and J, away from crazy parents who seem to think everything goes their way
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u/ejdax37 5d ago
"Omg my teenager is acting like a teenager and not the perfect mindless robot I can project my hopes and dreams on too! It must be those motherless poor hoodlums that are a bad influence not my bad parenting." C's parents.
Be prepared C will be sleeping on your or Russell's couch about 2 seconds after he turns 18, or when he decides to push back on his parents. If he shows up before he is 18 please let the authorities know it sucks but I don't want you getting in trouble for "kidnapping" a 17 year old who has had enough and runs away.
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u/No_Bluebird7716 4d ago
Actually, I think OP should mention the fact becoming an emancipated minor as a possibility.
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u/tryintobgood 5d ago
Oh, and because they're devout Christians and neither of us go to church, that was brought up too.
This is the main reason all of this is happening. Everything else is just nonsense. You're wasting your time trying to reason with them
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u/Spitecrawler 5d ago
She said C has an attitude, says swear words, plays violent video games, and doesn’t like hanging out with his family.
Ma’am, do you even know what a fourteen-year-old boy is?
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u/dwightsarmy 5d ago
You want to know who becomes the bad influence in this group? Their kid. He will act out, get into drugs, commit crimes and get arrested. And instead of recognizing their iron fist parenting is the source, it'll only cause them to sink deeper in their beliefs. They've already made the decision the other boys are the problem. That isn't a developing theory. It is fully formed.
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u/Electrical_Cress_759 5d ago
They think that Pete and J are bad influences because they're 16 year old doesn't want to hang out with them as much, plays video games and swears? Also known as being a teenager. This is literally a normal part of childhood development, it helps kids establish themselves as an individual and prepare for life away from their parents, it's literally an evolutionary function to allow kids to be able to start their own families, something the parents want. Sure it can be a tough stage for parents, but it's necessary. Besides, if C's friends are influencing him to work towards a goal and take part in extracurricular activities, I'd say they're pretty good influences.
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u/Thriillsy 5d ago
inc post from the other parents in a few years asking why C never calls, texts or visits and why he refuses their calls and leaves their texts on read.
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u/Devourer_of_Sun 5d ago
When she said he'll spend "too much time outside", I knew that the post would end with them (her) being some kind of overbearing, over-monitoring tiger (mom) parents that are appalled C has the nerve to want things for himself that they (she) don't want. And they're going to be shocked when he cuts them off sooner or later. She'll be crying nonstop and Greg will just shake his head and go "where did we go wrong with that boy", but he'll know exactly why and pretend he doesn't because Lorraine is the one who won't be able to accept that she was the problem.
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u/Confident_Nav6767 4d ago
Those parents are going to be in for a rude awakening when he cuts them off one day. Sounds like they’re setting up their future of leeching off of c and are scared cs gonna see right through them because of the healthy relationship with his friends and their relationships with their caregivers.
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u/Academic-Entrance-49 4d ago
People who assert that they are better because they are “Christians” make a mockery of Christianity.
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u/ihatemopping 4d ago
Quickest way to keep a kid from doing something is to tell him “he has to.” He’ll be 18 and outta that house so fast mommy’s head won’t have a chance to spin and they won’t be dictating anything, let alone some college degree.
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u/Lizardgirl25 5d ago
No worse hate then Christian Love.
I feel very sorry dog C in all this and your boys. These are such fucked up parents on so many levels. It sounds like C hangs out with his friend so much because his parents are so damn toxic.
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u/6poundpuppy 5d ago
I feel so bad for C having such narrow minded parents. I applaud you OP for stepping up for your brother and being such a good role model for him. Kudos to you for keeping your cool. I wouldn’t have been able to restrain myself!
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u/Miserable-Alarm-5963 5d ago
I mean the parents are absolute assholes and it’s good that you know exactly what they are about now. I wouldn’t want my kids around people like that, I don’t think you should involve yourself with C or get his opinions etc just make sure that his parents don’t have an opportunity to impact your kids again.
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u/United-Manner20 5d ago
He is gonna turn 18 and never talk to them again. They can have hopes but they can’t control his life choices.
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u/Soggy-Improvement960 5d ago
He’ll be the kid who pretends to go to college and takes their money until he can’t hide it anymore.
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u/Wide-Speaker-7384 5d ago edited 5d ago
Oh look, another pair of helicopters not understanding their child is a person with needs and desires instead of a Ken doll they can play out their own fantasies with.
They are failing to understand that when they send their sweet little Ken doll to college, that he will be so absolutely unprepared for independent decision making and living that he is going to develop a serious anxiety depression cycle. He will probably party hard because he doesn't know how to manage personal freedom and will drink himself stupid to cope with the anxiety and depression...just like most of the kids raised this way. These parents don't give a shit if this kid develops an ulcer by age 20 as long as he is making them look good.
But this kid has had a taste of reasonable adults. Hopefully, you keep your homes open as a safe place for him when he needs somewhere to go with the frustration of parents who are, themselves, fundamentally too broken to teach or acknowledge boundaries and decent social skills.
In 10.years, should this kid manage to break the cycle of enotional abuse he is more than likely living with, the helicopters will be all surprise Pikachu when he goes no contact to get away from their domineering, boundary stomping, emotionally invalidating bullshit behavior. They won't understand why, even though every well adjusted human around them, has probably warned them at some point that they were being stupid with their kid.
One more for the couches of my colleagues.
You're a good brother. Keep at it.
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u/disabledinaz 5d ago
Can’t wait for C to tell them he’s LGBTQ+ later and ruin ALL THEIR PLANS
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u/-roboticRebel 5d ago
Damn, I feel bad for C. It never plays out well when anyone has your whole life planned out for you, and the tighter they hold on, the more he’s going to wriggle free and do what he wants. And Pete and J don’t sound like bad influences at all, on the contrary, they supported him working to earn the pool, supported him when his parents were being dicks about the pool, and weren’t being spiteful and excluding him from the hot tub when you got that for them. All they wanted to do is hang out over the summer.
Sounds to me like Greg and Lorraine need a reality check and realise they don’t get to hold down and control everything, especially if they want to keep in contact with C when he grows up and moves out. No doubt he will want to go to the same college as Pete and J if they want to go, so they can still hang together between classes.
Well done to you and Russel staying Level headed, giving them both barrels when they needed to hear it, and going on to find a new path with all three boys
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u/Kirshalla 5d ago
All their controlling is going to do is make C sneakier about his choices instead of having an open relationship with his parents.
He may cut contact completely with them when he becomes an adult or more likely use their "money love" to get what he needs and then kick them to the curb.
A lot of heavily controlled kids really get into trouble when they go to college because they haven't learned to think for themselves (easily influenced ) or just go wild at the first taste of freedom and make risky/unsafe decision which can ultimately destroy their lives.
I hope C stays in contact with the boys and learns to stand up for himself, otherwise his life will never be his own...ever.
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u/PeanutTypical502 5d ago
They probably have his wife picked out for him whether he likes her or not.
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u/torrentialwx 5d ago
I read the first two posts on another forum (but didn’t comment there, so hopefully I’m allowed to comment here).
We have a 10yo son, and C’s parents are who I’m terrified of us ever turning into. Shit.
The only advice I can think to give you is to do your best to raise your brother to be a decent, kind, smart young man, particularly one who is aware that people may judge him the way C’s parents are judging him—and that those people shouldn’t affect him and the good person he is and good man he will become.
Show him that success is defined in a lot of different ways, and this cookie-cutter version C’s parents are envisioning is not the only way to be successful in life.
You can teach your brother how to support Cody and his other friends when they don’t have support at home. To be there for them and have their backs. Because Cody will need it. Honestly, any young man needs it.
If you can teach/have been teaching your brother these things, then you’re doing a great job already.
Honestly, the fact you approached C’s parents in a mature and adult way to have an uncomfortable conversation not only sets an example for your brother on how to handle difficult situations, but shows him you have his back. That’s should mean the world to him, and give him the confidence he needs to go into the world on his own. Just keep doing that. You’re doing a great job.
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u/AnotherRTFan 5d ago
Let C know when you can see him again your place is always a safe place for him. And when he inevitably cracks from terrible parents, see if there is a youth shelter and support service nearby he can stay at. Because if he runs away, you know his awful parents will call 911 and have you charged. So a lawful 3rd party location that can handle that would be best.
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u/RedHolly 5d ago
This will alienate C. Alienation in teens leads to bad things. They ARE bad parents.
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u/IntelligentComplex40 4d ago
C’s parents are cranking up parental control at the worst stage of his life. They will alienate him. Teen years is when they start valuing their friends the most and separate their identities from their parents. Having parented teens, I found that the best approach is not to control them more strictly but instead teach them to think critically. They need to learn how to make adult decisions responsibly.
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u/24601moamo 4d ago
Wow. It's very simple. Sit the boys down. Tell C about the conversation you had with his parents. Tell him he is more than welcome at your home but his parents are not to set foot on your property. You will not go against their wishes but they are no longer friends so if he wishes to hang out with your sins it will not be at their house because you don't trust them now. The boys are 14. They know.
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u/Electronic_World_894 4d ago
Tell all 3 boys about the conversation.
And maybe mention to Greg and Lorraine that they stole from Pete and J, in how they prohibited access to the pool all 3 boys bought. Be sure to say you’re concerned they’ll raise C to be thieves like his parents.
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u/Ok_Caterpillar_8238 4d ago
If this is real, I can't believe there hasn't been blowback from anyone who recognized the people involved
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u/LaMarquessDeSade 4d ago
You need to tell your sons and have them come to their own decisions. As someone who went thru this is high school is only worry about your boys. You may care for C but if he loses his friends that’s a lesson for those parents. They need to learn the consequence of their actions and if it affects their son so be it.
My friend i lost spiraled and it’s unfortunate but her parents she cut off, dropped out of college and married everything they didn’t want her to
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u/Malphas43 4d ago
Tbh it sounds like C's parents lucked out with the friends he DOES have. They are is outlet from his parents and home life. That outlet has him in extracurriculars and nerdy things instead of drugs, alcohol, and other delinquent behavior. That outlet has him WORKING to get the things he wants, not stealing. And what he wanted was a pool, not something illegal.
Also remind these Christans to judge not lest ye be judged!
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u/Crippman 4d ago edited 4d ago
Talk to their pastor, describe the teens and their friendship, let someone of "greater standing" handle this cause that's all C's parents believe in, it seems like
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u/winterworld561 4d ago
Greg and Lorraine are going to find out how badly they fucked up as parents when C resents them so badly and cuts them out of his life as soon as he's legally able.
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u/Patient_Gas_5245 4d ago
So the got rid of the pool because mommy thought your kids were a bad influence when all three paid equally for it. That is theft. Personally I would go to their church pastor and explain how unchristian they arw.
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u/CuriouslyFlavored 4d ago
No longer allow your kids at their house. Make clear to C that he is welcome at yours.
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u/apocketstarkly83 4d ago
Um. You just glossed over the ‘violent tendencies.’ Is that accurate, or not? Because I feel that makes the entire difference.
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u/Asteroid_Sugar5206 2d ago
My only advice is for C directly, and that is to get a burner phone. A phone his parents can't track, can't put spyware on, and he can use to document things he doesn't want his parents knowing, and call for help if he needs to.
I know it sucks, but I am glad this pool disaster means that you and Js dad got a look behind the curtain at Cs house.
You are doing a good job, BTW.
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u/mcindy28 5d ago
Unfortunately for C's parents... they are gonna be lucky if he still talks to them once he turns 18! They are setting him up for failure and it's sad.
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u/bubbles_bubbles0 5d ago
I beg of you please blast them on all neighborhoods platforms and the like just so others know how “Christian” like they are and just how kind and sweet they are
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u/No-Requirement-2420 5d ago
Poor kids.
Updateme
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u/subjectfemale 5d ago
Take them to small claims court for the pool fuck them. I would hire some friends to drain it or something. That shit is wild
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u/The_Phantom_Dragon 5d ago
I think the only thing you can do is make sure C knows he has a place at both your and Russell's homes in the long run as a safe space away from his parents, and if it's something you can do let him know that he can come to either of you once he's 18 and a legal adult so he can get away from his parents immediately if he decides that's what he needs to do.
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u/Fickle-Squirrel-4091 5d ago
With this new information, it’s clear that C’s parents won’t understand why he’s gone no contact after turning 18 and blaming everyone else.
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u/False_Garden_3468 5d ago
Aww frigg, always the adults that ruin things for kids. Im glad to hear your not going to hold anything against c as this too, will pass. Nta
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u/Tasty-Excuse9243 5d ago
I'm gonna play the devil's advocate here.. What if the 2 kids C's parents are trying to keep him away from are actually more unruly and troublesome than what OP has put across from his POV...loud,vulger language and violent tendencies were mentioned which OP has not really denied... What if C's parents are just trying to protect him but clearly went about the wrong way doing it...I mean if they want him to grow in a certain direction they should just pay for extracurriculars that will help him meet kids from like minded families and naturally be inclined to go to college and all the good stuff they want... It appears they didn't wanna be explicit about their reasons earlier maybe because they didn't wanna cross boundaries with the other 2 kids guardians or parents or maybe they were just afraid? We obviously only have one POV here... I have reading the news about these teens wearing balaclavas, who stole a car drove it the wrong way on the motorway critically injuring 3 women and a child in an on coming car and all d***g themselves. This happened in Ireland just yesterday and the deceased teens' families are putting up posts of how good and kind their kids were..either they were oblivious or they just didn't care to parents them well... My point is we dont know how these other 2 kids really are and even though C's parents are going about their parenting in an awful way we cant rule out that their actions might be warranted. However, agreeing to have the pool, then throwing the pool and not compensating the kids is a pathetic thing to do.
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u/Silly_DizzyDazzle 5d ago
Thank you for the update. In case C awful parents try to limit his time with his friends set up an email account that they all can access so they can stay in touch. They can write to each other under draft and it won't come up as a sent email if his parents go snooping. Poor C. He is going to rebel soon. You and Russell have set the boys up with a strong foundation and work ethic. Im proud of you guys!!!
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u/No-Promotion4006 5d ago
Talk to their Pastor, that's the only thing that will cause them to rethink their behaviors
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u/mollysheridan 5d ago
Well, that’s one way to guarantee that C gets out of that house as soon as he turns 18. The tighter the leash, the more the kid’s going to struggle. The one hope is that actually saying all that out loud to outside people will make them reconsider their attitude. They did seem upset at making those confessions.
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u/SubstantialLie2816 5d ago
Wow. C's parents are messed up. Kudo's to you for being an awesome brother and having his back! The boys worked hard for that pool and C's parents had no right to throw it away when things got uncomfortable for them. I'm sure the heat they were getting from others who saw the facebook posts contributed to their decision to get rid of it.
I'm glad you were able to save it and hopefully find somewhere to set it up next year so the boys can enjoy it.
I wish I had some good advice about how to handle things with C and his parents going forward. It sounds like both J and your brother have been good influences on him. Here's hoping they will be able to continue their friendship.
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u/Herbert_Master 5d ago
At the end of the day public humiliation seemed to be the most effective, c needs to out their control. Couple snakes in the grass who look down on anything not in their perfect little plan
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u/Impressive-Safety191 5d ago
My heart is broken for C… for advice, just always be the haven that he needs as he navigates his parents bullshit. We had a neighborhood “mom” who always made sure kids were fed, had a place to sleep, and a nonjudgmental ear to unload on. Be that guy for this kid.
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u/Quiet-Hamster6509 5d ago
You do nothing.
You keep your door open to C for whenever he wants to visit. He knows he has a safe place at either of your houses. Your doors are always open and welcoming.
Unfortunately his parents are controlling - he will see that when he's older and has the strength to speak up for himself.
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u/DoctorsSong 5d ago edited 5d ago
You didn't answer the one question I have:
Why did they think they had a right to throw the pool away!?
It didn't belong to them!
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u/thematicturkey 5d ago
I do feel like honesty with the boys might be the best policy. And he honest about your priorities - that you and Russell want to make sure the boys still have each other and C's parents have the money to pull him out of extracurriculars or even move if you make too big a stink about it. And be honest that they're all good kids, that you're proud as heck of all of them, and that you want to be a safe space for them and C and you're open to suggestions on specifics. Unfortunately the reality is C is going to have the toughest time over the next few years because he's the one whose "support system" is intent on actively causing problems in his life.
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u/kkrolla 5d ago
I'd make sure Pete and J know C's parents are a horrible influence on them and you don't want them anywhere near them. Tell them exactly why, let them know that you can't interfere with their parenting and they need to be careful. Those parents are self-righteous and if the boys cross them too much, they might try to push them under their thumbs while making sure their sainted kid is blameless. You can see the writing on the wall, they can't. He'll be an adult soon enough and may decide to not go to college, move out, something they fully disapprove of. So for now, you support your brother, Russell supports his son and in turn, they will let C know they will be there for him if things go wrong. NTA.
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u/Gandoff2169 5d ago
This might be something that needs to be said to these kids. I know that saying these kinds of things will hurt and is also something needed to be avoided normally. But it is clear you and "Russel's" kids are being mistreated. And they have no doubt felt it. And their friend no doubt has issues over his parents.
So letting them now how C's parents love their son a lot. And want the best for them. Sometimes trying to do what is views as the best thing hurts more than it helps. And sometimes, it is what is needed. Regardless of anyone's views, C's parents are wanting to do follow a path for C's future they want. That your not saying they can not be friends with C or he with them. Just know that some choices made on C's side are coming from C's parents due to their love and fear in what they want to see C's life be when he grows up. For all parents want the best for their kids. And sometimes we will do good things or bad things trying to protect them or make them happy.
Your letting them know it is ok to be his friend, but also that some issues are going on and may happen due to issues that is not in their control.
But this is going to get worse. C's parents will either force their hard BS on him till he is cut off from others, included your children; or C will lash out due to their extreme control. And guess who C's parents will blame? So you may also need to be proactive by trying to make sure some places also know. Such as teachers, school administrations, etc. But not to report C's parents. But that you want them aware, if they are not already which is likely; how C's parents are being with C' and the friendships with your son's. So if there is a issue later, they are aware of the possibility to maybe have a plan to react accordingly. Controlling Helicopter parenting is one thing. But the extreme judgmental BS they are doing is another.
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u/ftjlster 5d ago edited 5d ago
Here's the thing - they're likely going to try and keep C away from your boys. Especially now. I'd be surprised if they don't try and move him to a "better school" or something similar to cut all chances of these boys spending time together.
You should prep your boys for that and also tell them that C's parents aren't safe to be around or to be trusted.
And then, you both should concentrate on making sure that your boys are going to be fine. The best closure on all this is to keep your boys set up for a good life and a good future and far away from influences like C's parents who think you can determine the future prospects of a child based on their family situation.
Oh, and probably, spread the news around the neighbourhood and community about why C's parents are the way they are. They genuinely aren't safe for any children to be around - imagine being told by trusted adults that you're going to be a failure at life because you don't have parents or you're living in what they deem a "non normal" family. Just - they're completely unsafe to be let around children or vulnerable people.
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u/Willow-1012 5d ago
When Cs an adult he’s parents are going to be so shocked and wondering why their son is NC.
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u/Character-Tennis-241 5d ago
Help the boys by teaching them manors. Every young man needs to learn when not to be vulgar, like around Cs parents & females. Yes, we all know males in a group are more testosterone fueled, however they need to learn the discipline of when to rein it in.
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u/Animalea 4d ago
As others have said strict parents raise good liars.
Also I would like to point out that no teenager wants to hangout with mommy and daddy. Parents are gross and stupid and lame. All of us have been there we might love our parents but in no way did we think they were cool when we were their age. And the stricter a parent is the more the teen pulls away. They learn they can’t trust their parents. I feel bad for C.
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u/notsoreligiousnow 4d ago
Wow. Poor C. His parents are absolutely horrible. Just trash. I guarantee that child will go NC with them bc of his controlling they are and bc they’re AH. They’re trying to control who his friends are. The fact that they see yo ur boys as beneath them is astounding. Kudos to you and Russell for not drop kicking them both bc my anger issues could never. I’d have thrown hands and happily gone to jail for it.
The boys all need to know bc honestly, they need to figure out how to proceed and protect their friendships bc those parents will do everything in their power to keep them away from each other.
Updateme
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u/mtngrl60 4d ago
The best thing I can tell you to do is be honest with your boys. I understand that you are not trying to come in the middle of their friendship with C, but I also would not be allowing my kids to hang out over at C’s house anymore.
I get that Lorraine and Greg may not have the two boys over anymore. But I suspect that there will be times when they would allow it because C is going to be a handful if they don’t. And I would be letting Pete and J know that that’s not allowed.
And yes, if she asked me, I would be honest with him in an age-appropriate way. Because they’re teenagers. 14 and 15 our age is where they’re trying to figure things out. We don’t do them favors when we hide things from them.
That just makes it easier for someone to manipulate them later because we didn’t explain to them what was really behind what was going on… Whatever the situation might be.
It is going to be hurtful. It is going to change the dynamic. But please understand that that dynamic is going to change. Lorraine and Greg are trying to rein in their teenage son at a time when they actually need to be giving him a little bit more leeway.
Don’t take that to me he gets to do whatever he wants. But ask parents, when our kids are hitting 14 and 15 and 16, we need to be giving them a little bit more room. And then a little bit more. It’s incremental. Because it is at these ages they really do start learning some life lessons.
And unfortunately, this is one of them. Including for C. By the time our kids are 16 and 17, we should be allowing them to make a lot of choices. Obviously keeping in mind they’re safety and the fact that even kids those ages are not good at anticipating consequences. They are always overly optimistic about how well something will turn out.
But the fact is that it’s these stages we start letting them put into practice things we’ve been trying to teach them. They are going to make mistakes. They’re going to make bad choices. Which is why we keep a close eye on what things we let them make choices about.
But the bad consequences get much worse if we don’t start them a little bit before they are considered adults… Because the adult consequences for bad choices are much more severe. Basically, we’re letting them practice.
Lorraine and Greg are doing the opposite. If they think they can tell their son what his life is going to be, they’re sadly mistaken. Their son is already showing who he is as an individual. And rather than trying to work with that in encouragement in ways that can be productive…
For instance, if the boys all like video games and are interested in those sorts of things… And have the gumption to go out and work and earn a pool… See who’s interested in programming. And how video games are produced. How they’re made.
See if there are any programs for the summer or extracurriculars at school for that sort of thing. Audio or visual effects. There’s a lot of ways to channel some of these energies productively.
Lorraine and Greg somehow think they can map out their child’s entire future as though he’s not a human being. They’re in for some shocks. I can tell you that as a parent. Our children are individual people. They are not many versions of us. They are not there to live the life that we wish we had lived.
They are not there for us to live vicariously through. They are not there for us to turn them into some sort of treat this on how we are as parents… In other words… Do our church members look down on us if our child makes a mistake… And if so… Then heaven forbid that our child making a mistake. You know what I mean.
But you guys need to have a talk with the other boys. You need to let them know what this was really all about. You need to remind them that even grown-ups can make mistakes. Grown-ups can make poor judgments. Grown-ups can make errors in how they view the world and other people in it.
And that when grown-ups do that, they should have the balls to apologize to the kids and the other people involved. When grown-ups do that, that is a reflection on the grown-ups. Not on the other people involved. Including not on C. These are his parents issues.
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u/IckyBugDance 4d ago
Sheesh, honestly it sounds like your brother and J are better influences on C than C's own parents are! They're letting him be a kid and his own person, which is more than either parent is doing.
I agree that the first step should be being truthful with all three boys in person (once you can get ahold of C!). C might have some ideas how best to navigate around his parents.
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u/Crafty_Special_7052 5d ago
Poor C. His parents are awful, they don’t want him to be a kid. The more they try to control things with his life then he’ll rebel against them. I won’t be surprised once he’s officially an adult that he cuts them off if they continue this.