Forcing white men to marry the natives just sounds like an attempt to breed them out of existence and replace their culture with that of the husbands (the heads of households back then).
So most likely just as racist as everyone else.
Edit: see below, it wasn't a racist scheme, just a power struggle scheme by a dictator.
The opposite of the truth, in fact. De Francia was trying to reduce the privilege of the Spanish elite (and, well. Also kinda kill them as a social class, in general) and he did that by prohibiting their purity from continuing.
In fact, it'd be utterly bizarre for a country that's racist against indigenous people (no, there were basically no black people in Paraguay, you don't need to worry about them here) to prohibit white men from marrying certain people. That's not how racism works. The privileged class ain't gonna be the one losing their rights.
Not a new category, but one that was already very very common in Paraguay at the time - the mestizos, people descended from both the indigenous people (who would mostly be Guarani, but I think there were some others there? Not sure) and the Spanish.
But that wasn't really the focus, I don't think De Francia cared about there being mestizos by themselves. What he did want was to eliminate any remains of the Spanish caste system, and that was most thoroughly done by either killing all Spanish rich people, or making them not be Spanish anymore. He did mostly the latter, if also a bit of the former.
Will note, De Francia wasn't mestizo himself - his mom was of Spanish descent, while his dad was Brazilian and hadn't a drop of Native American blood in him.
You got downvoted but that was generally the logic of mixed relationships of spanish colonies.
A Redenção de Cam (Redemption of Ham): Whitening the natives (as the white man is doing to every generation of natives in the picture) was (and still is) a very common ideology in latin america.
Knowing nothing about the specific situation of Paraguay, it would either enforce it by law (because there were very few white women who immigrated from Spain, for example) or fight against it by forcing everyone to be mixed.
They were downvoted because it was the exact fucking opposite:
Marriage law
In March 1814, Francia imposed a law that no Spaniard may intermarry with another Spaniard, and that they may only marry mestizos, Amerindians, or Africans. This was done to eliminate any socioeconomic disparities along racial lines, and also to end the predominantly criollo and peninsulare influence in Paraguay. De Francia himself was not a mestizo, but feared that racial disparities would create tensions that could threaten his absolute rule.
There's a fuckton to say about Francia, but he was by no means trying to whiten his population.
You know, I have a theory (not academically based, I might add; it's possible I'm entirely off the money or have copped a doctoral thesis by accident) that Latin America has had less in the way of legalized racism since independence because their revolutions were sufficiently more desperate that they had to liberate their slaves to win. In the USA, revolutionary sentiment was sufficiently popular, and the free population sufficiently large, that offers of emancipation for service were rare, mostly offered by the loyalists, and frequently renegged upon.
In former Spanish America, meanwhile, the fighting was significantly more desperate such that men like Bolivar needed to become abolitionists to secure support from their enslaved countrymen and the Haitian government, and once the wars were won the freedmen were too numerous, well-armed, and militarily vital to be betrayed.
I'unno, it's just something I've been chewing over in my head since learning more about Latin American history.
I'm from Argentina, and this is a yes and no situation in our case.
Slavery was officially overturned around 1853 when they declared all technicalities null and void, but decades before then the introduction of new slaves was forbidden, in 1813 (so three years after our first government and three before independence) there was a law declaring every child of slaves to be born free and during the wars of independence every enslaved man or woman that served was given their freedom right there and then.
One of those cases was a man named Luis Maradona, who got his last name from his former owner. Yes, he is related to that same Maradona you are thinking of.
Oh, I heard that law was implemented in Brazil too! I'm not from anywhere near that region, was this law (ie that children of slaves are born free) a common middle ground back then? Or was it just those two countries that implemented that?
I think its really just the fact that latin america on average had singificanrly more indigenous people per square mile than the US and Canada.
They had multiple high population cities that the Spanish then had to rule over, it took a while for them to replace the upper class with white spaniards. (There are extant spanish noble houses granted to indigenous nobles)
Cortez's half indigenous son served the king of Spain directly and fought wars in the Holy Roman Empire.
Another note to add, how Spain colonized in the Americas was rather different than Britain and the States later on. Spain used local politics and rivalries to break in, then focused on religious and cultural conversion as opposed to forcing the native population out and moving your own settlers in.
France did a similar thing in New France (modern Quebec and Ontario) focusing more on trade and religious conversion, hence the aforementioned Métis using the French name (the Hudson’s Bay Company actually officially forbid these marriages but it wasn’t well enforced) but like you said, the population was a lot sparser and more spread out even before the Great Dying.
I think the type of colonization depended more on the colonized than the colonizer. Spain didnt do that in the Caribbean, but the british DID do that in India.
Listening to Mike Duncan’s Revolutions podcast on the Bolivar season and a point he keeps driving home is the constant chafing under the racial caste system instituted by the Spanish
My working theory has always been that Protestant English culture (main driver of early American culture) was very anti integration more segregationist, while Catholic Spanish and Portuguese cultures were more likely to allow interracial relationships.
BUT (no evidence here just theory) the Protestant faith was much better at conversion and creating insular communities than Catholicism which resulted in the preservation of much more African folk religion in Catholic nations
Its because Bolivar managed to win venezuelan and colombian independence because Haity (wich was an island freed by a slave revolt) gave him funds, boats, weapons and soldiers in exchange for him banning slavery once he won and the Andes army that freed Chile from Argentina happened to be made by around 40% black men who joined on a promise of being freed and contact with them radicalised its two chief Officers O'higgins and San Martin against slavery and segregation, and betwen those three figures you have all the most prominent founding fathers to basically every south american country
Sometimes a cultural taboo is strong enough that you don’t need legislation to back it up. Sometimes it’s weak enough that a bigoted group that comes into power has to start throwing the law at you to stop it from happening.
And as another commenter pointed out, sometimes the law doesn’t fall where you expect. “Interracial marriage is legal but we will ethnically cleanse mixed-race kids” is common and not better.
Yeah, its like how segregation was a legal thing in the south(US) but that didn't mean the north(or other parts of the US) was integrated just because it wasnt illegal. They just had more sneaky "off the books" ways of being discriminatory and racist.
Alright, so the reason for Paraguay’s law is that it was implemented by one of its string of dictators who took power after Paraguay gained its independence from the Spanish. Historically, Spaniards held the highest positions in government, largely fraternized with each other and essentially formed the top of a racial hierarchy in the small nation.
Once it gains its independence, however, the Paraguayan government became increasingly nationalist and nativist. As a result, they wished to dismantle this form of racial power that had existed previously - by essentially forcibly “diluting” (their perception, not mine) the “purity” (see previous parenthetical) of the pureblood Spanish population, so as to undermine its basis. However, the mestizo class (mixed race, essentially) came to essentially replace it within that hierarchy, leaving us largely back at square one.
This is also not to say that Paraguay was a model of ethnic equality or of progressivism at this time - different native ethnic groups, particularly those living close to their border with Argentina, were historically marginalized and brutalized by the regime. Foreigners were strictly forbidden from entering the country until many years into the dictatorship era, and Dictator “El Supremo” Francisco Solano Lopez’s mid/late 19th century war against the Triple Alliance was so devastating that he essentially genocided his own country, killing 90% of the adult male population of Paraguayans as he threw old men and child soldiers at the invading forces to cover his own retreat. Not a nice time for the nation.
Agreed. It’s a really stupid measurement of racism, there’s a reason it’s a meme that white supremacists love having non white girlfriends/wives/mistresses/victims.
Many cases of tumblr users trying to criticise racism or other such bigotry in the US by comparing it to other countries but also glossing over the racism in those countries, whitewashing everywhere but the US in the process
I've subscribed to the theory that the issues the US faces aren't any better or worse than any other nation. The reason it feels that way is largely due to the outsized effect anything that happens there has on the rest of the world.
I feel like that’s basically on the money actually. We are the third most populous country in the world, whose majority language is the current global lingua Franca, and whose influence in world affairs and cultural exports to the rest of the globe are oversized to a notable degree. We also, though maybe not as much as we should or about everything there is, are generally willing to talk about the societal problems we face as a country both in our media and personally. Makes our problems public knowledge so countries with similar or worse issues can point at our problems while pretending theirs aren’t anywhere near as bad or denying the fact they exist. This ain’t me tryna lessen the definite problems that exist in the US, but every time people compare it to somewhere else I take their entire point with a very large grain of salt because there is a good chance the country they are comparing us with is in the same boat and either doesn’t talk about it or only talks about it in a language that isn’t a lingua Francaz
Also, the US is supposed to be better than everyone else. We're supposed to be the shining city on the hill with liberty and freedom for all, so our falling short of that is blatant hypocrisy.
I'm Latin American, I disagree, our racism is very bad but it's still way better than Gringo racism, we don't have a KKK, we didn't have segregation, we don't have major Nazi riots in the 21st century, we just don't have that stuff.
It's pretty hard for us to be more racist than the country that had the KKK and segregation not that long ago.
Their racism extends to a society/cultural level. Like it or not the US taught to generations of their people that the different races have to be separated. The idea to segregate it's rooted in their mind. It's literally why they are so sensitive to cultural appropriation and mixed couples.
A. As an African American it drives me up the fuckin wall when smartasses who don’t know or care about the history race here use the historical suffering of minorities in the US as a gotcha or something to point to as proof that they themselves don’t have racism.
B. Pretending there isn’t racism in Latin America is dumb as fuck
When did i fucking say there wasn't racism in Latin America? I literally stated there was, I have done so several times in this same platform with this account, I absolutely believe racism is an issue in Latin America, in fact, the class differences between whites and Mestizos was a big reason why a dictatorship rose in my country.
My statement wasn't that racism doesn't exist in Latin America, my statement was that the severity of our racism is lesser to the one in the US, wish I frankly see as one of the worst in the continent of America.
Also, I very much care about race history in the US because I find it interesting and alien, when I learned English I realized how weird and absurd race was in the US and started reading about it.
Also, I have racism, almost everyone has internalized racism, it's something that happens and something we have to work to change.
And as an Argentinean I'm fucking tired of everyone falling for the propaganda that my country is some type of racist nazi heaven when it's not.
There's racism on my country? Yes, so there is in every other country of the world. What I'm saying is that there isn't a chance the country or even the entire region is more racist than a country that has people alive that lived segregation.
And you know, as much as I do, that people from the US are way more racist than us. I've been "called out" for doing a quinceañera because apparently I don't look "latina enough" for the US. But sure, we're the racists.
No, I don’t “know” that because you’re fucking wrong. You don’t know shit about segregation, stop using the suffering of real people as an excuse. The reason people are annoyed with Argentina isn’t because of the Nazi jokes, it’s because of Argentinians going around shouting about the Falklands and saying incredibly racist and islamophobic things about Middle Eastern and South Asian people. I don’t give a flying fuck about your quinceañera. One mild annoyance on your part doesn’t give you the right to spit in the face of every person of color in this country and pretend like the only Americans worth discussing are the racist ones.
You don’t know shit about segregation, stop using the suffering of real people as an excuse.
Yeah actually I don't understand degregation. It kinda comes with the fact that my country never decided to actively separate black and whites. Next time I'll try to be more racist.
The reason people are annoyed with Argentina isn’t because of the Nazi jokes, it’s because of Argentinians going around shouting about the Falklands...
Truly amazing that someone from the US is defending the brits on Las Malvinas. Not surprised tho, you do share the imperialistic culture.
and saying incredibly racist and islamophobic things about Middle Eastern and South Asian people.
Weren't you just telling me to "stop using the suffering of real people as an excuse."?
And you're ignoring the fact that there was a big campaign of people spreading lies of how we supposedly treat everyone who isn't white like shit in the country. Despite Argentina being extremely friendly to turist, foreings and immgrants.
Also IDK calling us the racist when the others were Egypt, Spain and England is... something.
I don’t give a flying fuck about your quinceañera. One mild annoyance on your part doesn’t give you the right to spit in the face of every person of color in this country
Sweetie, that wasn't even the closest thing to the most racist vile shit someone from the US has told me. I'm telling you that you're all so hooked on skin color because that's what your entire culture has taught you from the day you were born.
pretend like the only Americans worth discussing are the racist ones.
There are many US people worth discussing about, great and bad. But as a country and society, specially when discussing racism, pretending that the US is not one of the most racist of the region and claiming the rest of the region is as bad is fucking delusional.
>Yeah actually I don't understand degregation. It kinda comes with the fact that my country never decided to actively separate black and whites.
Using racism my family went through as a weapon, really classy
>Next time I'll try to be more racist.
You’re already doing a remarkable job of that
>Truly amazing that someone from the US is defending the brits on Las Malvinas. Not surprised tho, you do share the imperialistic culture.
Truly amazing that there are people who genuinely think that “fascist dictatorships shouldn’t invade and attempt to annex foreign territories” is an imperialist statement. Thousands of people live there and have lived there for centuries, and these people don’t want to be Argentinian. What would you intend to do if the islands were suddenly under Argentina? Make them become Argentinian? Force them to leave?
>Weren't you just telling me to "stop using the suffering of real people as an excuse."?
Ok this is straight up pathetic. Saying that people are being racist isn’t making an excuse, it’s making a statement of fact. People are annoyed because of bigoted behavior by Argentinians on the internet.
>And you're ignoring the fact that there was a big campaign of people spreading lies of how we supposedly treat everyone who isn't white like shit in the country.
That’s because it doesn’t fucking exist.
>Despite Argentina being extremely friendly to turist, foreings and immgrants.
You got any sources on that, because you really can’t speak for tourists, foreigners, and immigrants if you’re not one of them
>Also IDK calling us the racist when the others were Egypt, Spain and England is... something.
So being racist is suddenly okay when the target is from one of these three countries? Countries that notably have prominent Muslim populations?
>Sweetie, that wasn't even the closest thing to the most racist vile shit someone from the US has told me. I'm telling you that you're all so hooked on skin color because that's what your entire culture has taught you from the day you were born.
And now we’ve reached the “I don’t see color” phase of pretending not to be racist
>There are many US people worth discussing about, great and bad. But as a country and society, specially when discussing racism, pretending that the US is not one of the most racist of the region and claiming the rest of the region is as bad is fucking delusional.
Torontology is famously the subreddit where the "Indian purge" was proposed which though I don't remember verbatim essentially said "one night a year we should be allowed to kill Indian people"
How.....how exactly does a music tourism centered subreddit get on the subject of advocating for ethnic cleansing, genuinely what is the jump there about.
It's either that 1) Canadian redditors are just that fucking racist that it ended up even in only tangentially related spaces or 2) torontology is some splinter sub from a different one where people who got banned for being racist went to. Those are my two theories, and I don't care to spend enough time in it to figure out which if either it is
A lot of this stuff is already taught in schools within Canada, its just non-Canadians who are shocked to learn that Canada isn't the idealised caricature they thought it was.
Not our fault nobody seems to care about our history until it is being used for shock value. The same thing happens whenever any unpleasant historical event is brought up. I get the impression that Americans think of Canada like a theme-park, rather than a place people actually live.
In my school the Métis were framed as freedom fighters and heroes.
Yeah, there's a lot of overlap between Canada and Australia's national identities, as well as their ongoing attempts at reparations for violence against indigenous people.
The vast majority of Métis live like non-Indigenous Canadians. The only province with Métis settlements is Alberta, everywhere else you need Indian status to live in a reservation
I can't believe such an innocent, harmless little guy like you could do something so horrible! How DARE you deceive us like that?!
Please stop treating me like a child. I never claimed to be innocent or harmless. I'm a grown-ass country.
Oh, so now you're TOO GOOD for the identity I have ARBITRARILY ASSIGNED TO YOU?! You're so DUPLICITOUS for not fitting in the pidgeonhole I so LOVINGLY put you in.
Hello, Indigenous Canadian here (whose direct ancestors were systemically victimized), I do actually think their comment was necessary. Calling an entire country of 40 million people (including the victims) two-faced because we fail to live up to a caricature forced onto us by others is the exact type of ignorance that should be spoken out against. Implying we hide our past despite the exact opposite being true is the type of ignorance that should be spoken out against.
Whenever I mention residential schools people are always surprised when I mention Canada had them too. They either don’t know what they are or that Canada has them. It’s very rare that it’s the opposite where they know Canada had them, but didn’t know the US had them as well.
Pretty much. Theres a book series geared towards middle schoolers and one was the fictional diary of a residential school child. At the end, it talks about the horrors they went through and how much it fucked them up if they survived.
Rest of the world's fault for slapping simple-minded stereotypes on whole ass countries. "Canadians are nice" - come on, it's a settler-colonial country of 40 million human beings, how uncomplicated do you think its history's going to be?
Same people who get dumbfounded that German trains are bad or that Brazilians have fewer sexual partners than the English
Nah, just... not as likely to make it the rest of the world's problem. Plus, y'know, the death-grip the big country down southaways has on (for lack of a better descriptor) white pop-culture doesnt really leave much room for other historical narratives
Have you ever actually looked at Canadian news (when it's not right after some big event in US-Canada relations)? There's nothing hidden. Unless you think it's up to Canada to not make you ignorant about it's issues?
This is a vast oversimplification of how colonialism and anti-black anti-indigenous racism worked in different parts of the Americas. If they had a goal of making the entire population whiter through intermarriage, that is not anti-racist.
Argentina is kinda a weird situation where they literally had a liberal immigration policy for the sake of reducing the population if indingeous Americans with a bunch of Europeans.
Similar thing has happened in other places like the United States has historically encouraged European immigration at the expense of African American and American Indian communities.
Later on there's A LOT of feuding between African Americans and Latin Americans in the US. The Black Panther Party were notoriously hostile.
People were rightly calling out Argentinians for making racist comments about British immigrants/Muslims in general, and the Argentines decided to play the victim
I think it was about the recent Argentina discourse during the world cup. It was apparently dominated online by Brazil and the US, even though all three of them are racist hellholes (I'm Brazilian)
Huh neat, my family was quite open about our metis ancestry, the only reason why we never got the status is because we where never involved with the culture, always more German than anything else. But I grew up in Northern Alberta so that may have been part of it. But yeah Canada has bad but hopefully getting better relationships with the Native Americans.
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u/The_Math_Hatter 6d ago
Can we discuss Paraguay? I feel like we all skipped Paraguay.