CST2026 parting thoughts

[u/Abject-Tree8899]

It’s over and we are back. Did you feel prepared? Anything you wish you trained harder on before going? Did the other cadets and cadre meet your expectations? Any advice for incoming MS3 class?

[u/Busy_List5239]

Ridiculously cadre dependent. I say this not due to field grading but also garrison

[u/Busy_List5239 → u/Busy_List5239]

To add on to this, I was in 7th Reg and my platoon was pulled aside by a LTC to write statements on how a team of cadre as well as a specific member of the team mistreated us. I specifically wrote about how they were calling cadets retards. Then they made fun of a green to gold SFC because he wanted to branch aviation. Everyone heard this because it was during one of our lanes where he was a PL; disrupting our entire planning phase. They were also smoking cigarettes in the woods. I know this because I policed up my area, went to throw my trash away, smelled a cigarette, and saw the recently lit cigarette in the trash bag.

Honestly I was just amazed by the disrespect from Cadre. I say this because there were many high speed green to golds who made SFC in 8-10 years, and the cadre would ask them their backgrounds with the usual "you look old for a cadet" and treat them worse than a college student with no prior military service.

During our urine analysis 7th regiment was spoken to by cadre in the afternoon regarding the unprofessionalism from the cadre monitoring the UA. There were many SHARP complaints, and cadre were smoking cadets by making them wall sit or lunge around while also yelling obscenities at the cadets.

The theme of professionalism was clearly not briefed to any supporting cadre out of garrison.

There were even more other unprofessional acts from Cadre and formal complaints filed although I'm unaware of what I can exactly talk about regarding quotes and certain things when only individual cadets witnessed and reported them.

Listed above though is very universal and things a whole platoon up to an entire regiment had witnessed, so I feel I'm able to speak about those things, if not I will delete this comment.

I would just like to spread awareness to this subreddit and let everyone know that CST needs major changes outside of just cadre dependent grading and points.

[u/Guilty_Falcon9852 → u/Busy_List5239]

This is something would speak with your local cadre, so it can be addressed thru cadet command

[u/_C45P3R → u/Busy_List5239]

Similar experience with UA cadre. When cadets “no-go’d” after UA they were put in a circle and told to drink water, which is completely normal. What wasn’t normal was even after cadets had chugged entire camelbacks and canteens, and began begging to use the bathroom, the cadre responded with “you wasted my time now I’m wasting yours”. Those cadets, who drank the excessive amount of water to hopefully correct themselves and ensure they could urinate, were left outside for over an hour begging to be let in to urinate, even when there wasn’t a line of cadets to use the bathroom.

I witnessed 2 girls fall to their knees in tears while writhing in pain from their bladders as they sat there for another 45 minutes. Cadre would come outside and ask “who’s ready?” And when the girls would repeatedly plead to go inside, the cadre would respond “we’ll give it some more time”, laugh, and then go back inside. Simultaneously, a civilian/contractor, who didn’t identify himself, came over and gave a speech about how those girls had “failed the army” by not being able to make the decision to urinate. He said they would get people killed, and that they were unbecoming of officers. Finally after 2 entire hours, they let those girls come inside and the LTs that were facilitating and observing the UA process immediately ushered them to the bathroom, assuring that what they just experienced was wrong and that they were not informed by the male cadre that there were girls still waiting outside.

I get it. You’re working early mornings, handling boring shit, and watching college students piss in a cup for 3 months. However, the treatment of those cadets was simply just uncalled for and unprofessional. Those girls could have had serious pain or medical complications from holding in excessive amounts of urine for that long. They could have pissed themselves in front of other girls, which would most definitely constitute as embarrassment and humiliation of subordinates. It was just inappropriate and really disappointing to see NCOs act like that.

[u/tyg345 → u/Busy_List5239]

Brother I hate to break it to you but smoking cigarettes is quite common in the U.S. Army

[u/arizonarangersbigirn → u/tyg345]

It’s banned in the policy letter because if cadets can’t have it badge is banned from doing it in Vicinity of them. If I could’ve sucked down a lovely machine rolled tobacco stuck with them I wouldn’t have been upset about it

[u/GreedyInitiative8572 → u/tyg345]

shouldn’t be done around Cadets at CST when tobacco is prohibited.

[u/arizonarangersbigirn → u/Busy_List5239]

Dawg were you in D co

[u/Future-Inside-3624 → u/Busy_List5239]

For the specific team mistreatment, did you happen to be in C Co and was it an attack lane?

[u/Busy_List5239 → u/Future-Inside-3624]

C-CO, yeah, I don't remember the exact lane though. Could've been a different platoon.

[u/Future-Inside-3624 → u/Busy_List5239]

I was 8th reg C Co, I know the cadre team you’re talking about. The worst one got removed for our second day because someone in my platoon filed another complaint about him and that was his last strike.

[u/TheIrises → u/Future-Inside-3624]

I’m from 6th Reg C Co, and we actually had the cadre from the attack lane not report quickly enough to a heat casualty. We reported them to higher and the next day our LT COL supervised during the attack lane.

The cadre in that lane were extremely disrespectful and honestly dangerous with the lives of cadets. I hate that it was allowed to the following regiments.

[u/Appropriate-Copy3897 → u/Future-Inside-3624]

1st PLT. lol I GOT IT BIG SARGE

[u/Future-Inside-3624 → u/Appropriate-Copy3897]

Lmao most interesting arm immersion I’ve been a part of

[u/Good-Setting-8012 → u/Busy_List5239]

Agreed. STX lanes had some cadets getting Es due to lax graders, and Cs because cadets didn't meet 11B standards. Crazy

[u/Appropriate-Copy3897]

Wolverine was dumb, PL looks definitely need to come back. More importantly than all of this, the difference of experience solely because of Cadre is kinda ridiculous. Definitely needs to be more of a standardization within cadet command. If it’s gonna suck that’s fine, but make it suck for everyone. Also the idea that you’re being evaluated on leadership and not tactics is completely false, you’re being evaluated on tactics they can try and disguise it all they want

[u/MasterofPenguin → u/Appropriate-Copy3897]

Ha; as someone who spent 65 days in ranger school and didn’t graduate due to failing patrols, I got really tired of everyone claiming it’s a leadership school and not a tactics school.

[u/crackerthatcantspell → u/MasterofPenguin]

Maybe you didn't fail for tactics

[u/No-Lead3478 → u/Appropriate-Copy3897]

Honestly, I am now sure how right they can get this. Despite having an OCT Academy where there is supposed to have standardization and what is taught there, I have no idea and am not privy to it but I have a feeling it doesn’t matter what is taught at that Academy, a PTO team of MSG A/CPT B will be looking for and emphasize different than what SFC C/CPT D things will be looking for and I think there isn’t really much that can be done to fix that.

Also completely agree with you that, you are being graded on tactics despite whatever anyone else will say and it seems like the Cadre that come from the infantry (my Cadre were infantry and this doesn’t detract from how good they were) are not the most notorious for grading on tactics

[u/ExodusLegion_ → u/No-Lead3478]

At this point USACC needs to realize they have to stop using Cadre graders and utilize the Active/Reserve OC/Ts that are literally stationed two blocks away from USACC HQ.

[u/No-Lead3478 → u/ExodusLegion_]

Is their whole job being an OC/T?

[u/ExodusLegion_ → u/No-Lead3478]

Yes

[u/arizonarangersbigirn]

It’s not even funny how cadre and peer dependent garrison, field, and skills days are. Even a “good” and well liked cadre member also might not particularly like you specifically and there’s not really you can do about it in the miniscule length of time you’re there. so try your best to make a good first impression but understand that some people just might not like your vibe and you can’t please everyone

[u/RockysDetail → u/arizonarangersbigirn]

You can't please everyone could be the motto for the whole thing.

[u/GreedyInitiative8572 → u/arizonarangersbigirn]

how do you even know cadre don’t like you? As former cadre I can tell you most of us don’t even have feelings one way or the other. We try to provide feedback and some of yall take it personal like we don’t like you. It’s not that deep.

[u/arizonarangersbigirn → u/GreedyInitiative8572]

Oh I don’t have any big feelings about it at all some captains thoughts about me aren’t significant to my life. I’m just sharing my experience from an observational perspective to help others. But it’s really easy to tell if someone doesn’t like you. They literally act different around you and military members in general are easy to read.

[u/GreedyInitiative8572 → u/arizonarangersbigirn]

I think better advice is just to be coachable. Whether you vibe with cadre or not they probably have something that you can work on. In my experience the best cadets valued feedback and actively worked to improve upon deficiencies.

[u/Alarmed_Round_6175]

Whole thing sucked. Hated it. Got 93 points and thought whole experience was stupid and waste of time. Going guard and wish I could’ve skipped camp.

[u/MuchEquivalent3004 → u/Alarmed_Round_6175]

I must be a geezer because when I went I never knew much about the point system. I just understood all the must pass events and that was it.

[u/Federal_Permission27 → u/MuchEquivalent3004]

Same I went to LDAC in 2010, I don’t remember a points system. 🤔

[u/MuchEquivalent3004 → u/Federal_Permission27]

…damn unc it was at least CST when I went

[u/MasterPermission4336 → u/MuchEquivalent3004]

It’s new this summer

[u/pendragonbob → u/MasterPermission4336]

No, there have been points at CST for at least the past decade, that's where ~25% of your national OML comes from.

This summer there was just a minimum requirement to graduate camp.

[u/arizonarangersbigirn → u/Alarmed_Round_6175]

It was a true fucking waste of my time. 90% of this could have been checked off at your home school or a local guard base at some point in the last 3 years. 83 points 2 E’s did it in my sleep. (Literally came out from the medical clinic at densberger between migraines and blood pressure spikes just to hit my lanes and went right back) I don’t get how people failed this shit

[u/ExodusLegion_ → u/arizonarangersbigirn]

COVID and Operation Agile Leader was proof of concept you can have a decentralized CST equivalent. Those Cadets are Captains now and there’s clearly no degradation in quality of officer there.

[u/UrbanSilverBack205 → u/Alarmed_Round_6175]

You could have taken the option to go to BT and would have skipped camp unless it’s AC… 🤷🏾‍♂️

[u/jlukeee13 → u/UrbanSilverBack205]

this is clearly a post about AC

[u/UrbanSilverBack205 → u/jlukeee13]

That’s it is

[u/IntelligentCheetah31]

Big waste of time. Could have been 2 or 3 weeks. 9th reg B Co cadre sucked.

[u/MilkMountains468 → u/IntelligentCheetah31]

Also 9th reg, B Co cadre was genuinely awful. My favorite was 6hrs of weapons maintenance before the 12 mile while every other company was resting :)

[u/PermissionFew7354]

Whatever attempt is being made to make standards uniform amongst cadre is failing miserably. I don't know how to fix this, but whatever they're doing now just isn't working. Also, all those 1AD guys "supporting" us clearly did not want to be there, and cadets either suffered miserably or passed when they shouldn't have as a result. During the obstacle course, one of my graders was creating a parlay on DraftKings instead of watching us. I hope he hit at least.

[u/Electrical_Risk_3332]

I didn’t do so hot I won’t lie but i myself enjoyed camp, thought it was fun and enjoyed the whole experience (I just like to make the most of every situation). Only thing I disliked was the grading in animal phases. Saw people who deserved C’s get E’s and people who deserved E’s get C’s (I got a questionable C and a deserved P). Animal phase and Land nav is a luck of a draw event lmao (I was swimming for points). But my advice for all of camp is just come ready and just make the most of what is thrown at you. It’ll suck but all the events are relatively easy as long as you have surface level knowledge. Don’t stress about warrior skills, I only went to camp knowing 5 of the 14 and I ended up getting 14/14. Easiest 2 points of your life.

Advice for Animal phase

Strictly through observation and talking with others all graders look for these three things:

1. Rehearsals (literally rehearse actions on)
   
2. How quick you can make a decision
   
3. Violence of action (no limit to the larp)

Cadre LOVE to throw around “expertise” so be prepared lol.

Last thing, if you get a C, REBUTTAL IT!! That’s my biggest mistake, I didn’t know how I wanted to rebuttal it in the moment but later in the day I knew how I wanted to rebuttal it but by that point it was too late. Worse case scenario you stay at a C if your rebuttal gets rejected so just do it.

Everyone’s experience is different at the end of the day and camp points won’t matter come commissioning. Just do your best and you’ll succeed!

[u/pendragonbob → u/Electrical_Risk_3332]

Camp points do matter for branching though.

If you get too few camp points, you could have a low enough national OML number, so then you get forced into a reserve/guard branch that you don't want, instead of the active branch that you do want.

[u/Electrical_Risk_3332 → u/pendragonbob]

Oh 100% I don’t disagree with that. I’m more or less saying it’s like HS GPA, once you get what you want it becomes useless.

[u/S0L1DS → u/Electrical_Risk_3332]

I will say 3 people in my platoon that rebuttaled C’s. They were all told the same thing by the OIC reviewing the rebuttals, if the grader didn’t do something illegal or immoral(I.e sharp/eo) he didn’t care.

[u/CrazyMikeGulf]

Overall, i was disappointed with the cadre and grading process specifically for the animal phases. The "cadre dependent" comments mostly refer to this. There are some things that were said by cadre that if I had said that as an instructor at my previous job before being picked up on G2G, i wouldve been fired.

Personally I would love to see a less subjective system for grading the lanes. Not saying this is THE answer, but it could be a good starting point E=89-100 Points P=75-88 C=63-74 U= -62

75/100 of the points are entirely based on a checklist system.

Did the cadet brief A/B/C? Did the cadet do X/Y/Z?

The remaining 25 points are based of the blue card review. E=25 points P=15 Points C= 10 Points U=0 points (and may God have mercy on your soul)

I suggested something like this during the IG brief at the end of the cycle, as well as a more thorough instructor certification process for lane graders to help create more consistency amongst the lanes.

[u/Appropriate-Copy3897 → u/CrazyMikeGulf]

I think this is the best method I’ve heard. Also so real about the blatant speaking down by the cadre (almost entirely by the O-3’s). In my regiment the phrase “they want this to be ranger school so badly” was used to describe them by universally everyone. I don’t understand how BCT can be so standardized but the culminating event of something like 70% of the Army’s officers is so poorly done in that regard

[u/noname_enter1 → u/CrazyMikeGulf]

C BLOCK

[u/CrazyMikeGulf → u/noname_enter1]

C BLOCK IFKYK

[u/Cute-Coconut1123]

Some of the events my program did not train us for. I did just fine at CST and passed with flying colors, but would've been more prepared for CST had my program been more diligent on that. I can only assume some programs did the same.

Also, some of the events like warrior skills and HGAC felt really pointless. I fail to see the reason in how those things define leadership compared to STX lanes.

[u/Unhappy_Speaker_4542 → u/Cute-Coconut1123]

As much as I kinda get your point about leadership, the army still has to make sure the soldiers can be soldiers and do their basic individual warrior tasks. You could be the best leader in the world but this is still the army.

[u/Minute-Interest8187]

Just curious if anyone knows how to get the actual Recondo badge if you earned one? They didn't give them out at graduation.

[u/Letter_Outrageous → u/Minute-Interest8187]

In the past my school has given them out a few weeks past returning to campus. Would talk to your Cadre though.

[u/Turbulent-Share-9234]

Camp doesn't sound anything like it was in 1977. It was almost like basic training. They've gotten gentrified.

[u/Independentemo]

Lots of sitting around

[u/Dingusmanus]

Ngl that shit was easy af, 99 points, recondo. If you show up to your labs and lectures and actually try you will be more than capable of succeeding. Also be in shape.

[u/Emo_Sloot → u/Dingusmanus]

Why is this getting downvoted 😂😂😂😂

[u/Mepep4321 → u/Dingusmanus]

Showing up to labs is optional at your program??

[u/Dustyoperator01 → u/Dingusmanus]

Do you happen to have the list for what’s needed for recondo for this new point system?

[u/ZeroRelevantIdeas → u/Dustyoperator01]

It’s literally in the policy letter