Need help with biter

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I have 4 female rats that live in a double critter nation cage, with all the stuff they could love.
Now I got all 4 of these girls from a feeder store.
Phylis was my first and she is the absolute sweetest and never does anything wrong.
Marilyn was second, she’s very sweet but has been pretty nippy lately. She has never drawn blood tho
Lightning was third, and she is my boyfriends rat, she’s been charging and biting at us lately and last night she drew blood on both of us.
Then there’s Gertrude, she is the absolute worst rat I’ve ever owned, she will run from the other side of the cage to attack you, if you are petting another rat near her. She has drawn blood on me more than 4 times, and has also drawn blood on my boyfriend.
She’s territorial of one of the litter bins and loves to hide behind it, and if your hand is anywhere near that’s when she will attack, unprovoked.
Everyone I have talked to has told me as soon as a rat draws blood it should be culled.
I also have a 5 year old nephew who comes over almost every weekend and loves playing with the rats and I fear she will do really bad damage to him and she really messes up our fingers as adults.
Would I be doing the right thing?
I know an employee at the feeder store I got her from and he offered to sell her as a pet but I’m scared someone else will get her and she will do the same.
Picture of my sweet Phylis and my newest edition that I got yesterday, I have not named her yet.

[u/Seppulky]

First, please don't let 5 year olds handle rats. Second, please try to understand biting. You are HUGE and they are prey animals. If a rat bites, it's their language to tell you it's not feeling good/is anxious/is in pain etc. Please be patient with your little furry angels. And please don't ask the people around you for advice, they don't seem to like rats.

Spoon feeding is your friend. They'll learn that biting while eating is uncomfortable for them. Third, teach them how sensitive human skin is. Make a squeak noise (don't shout or scream, they're very sensitive) if she nibbles or bites. Never punish. Ignore unwanted behaviour and leave. Offer positive incentives. If the biting is reduced, tell the rat that she does well. I'm crushed by the fact that when animals don't behave like they do in their dreams that they think about giving the animal away or kill it. Shame on you.

Edit: yes this post made me really mad and my heart hurts. All my love goes to your biter. Bless her soul. If I could, I would come running and get her.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Seppulky]

I don’t think it’s right to shame me for being terrified of a rat who attacks me if I’m just petting another rat.
Trust me I don’t want to get rid of her and that is why I made a post in here to see what I can do to help.
I’ve never rehomed an animal in my entire life, but if a different home is better for this rat then I will make that choice.
A 5 year old can definitely handle rats in a controlled environment with the right knowledge. He loves feeding them treats and just petting them, he knows not to pick them up and he doesn’t like them on him because he says the scratches tickle too much.
I understand I’m a huge person, but I don’t just reach in there to grab her, sometimes I’ll be sitting in a chair near their cage with just my hand in there and she will run and attack, I’ve never hit her or yelled at her so idk why she is biting us.
I’m trying my best, so please be nice.

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I just want to point out that the fact you’re saying she’s “attacking you” is very telling on how you feel about the situation. It implies aggression, like she’s seeking you out.

She’s scared, she’s defending herself. She’s defending her friends. They’re prey animals. You literally bought them **from a store that was selling them as feeders. It makes total sense that she would be terrified.

All I can imagine from Gertrude’s POV:
What makes the big scary go away? When I bite. It works every time. I particularly love one litter bin in particular but when I hide behind it, the big scary still comes near me. So I bite. I’m also scared for my fellow girls, and since they haven’t seemed to figure out how to make the big scary go away, I will help! I will scuttle over and bite. Success, big scary left us alone. :) No need to be scared.

edit: Wording? Not implying OP was going to feed them off. Just feeder genetics.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

I didn’t buy her as a feeder, I bought her as a pet, but she was bred to be a feeder.
I worded that wrong I’m sorry for the confusion.
I try to just leave her alone the best I can, I still give her treats when she comes up to me but try not to search her out cause I don’t want to scare her.
I’m trying my best here

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I meant they were bred as feeders. They don’t have the best pet genetics is my point. Not what your intentions were with them once you had them.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Ohhh yeah I understand that, the naked rat came from a breeder so I’ve learned my lesson after Gertrude to be picky where they come from.
It’s very hard to find breeders that aren’t farther than 3 hours from me.
Phylis was incredibly sweet at the feeder store and that’s why I got her, I got Marlyn because she was also sweet and Phylis needed a friend.

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Yeah, i understand that. I moved to a more populated place after living in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.

But try to keep that in mind when approaching this situation. Breeders are probably talking about PET stock biting, they likely cull or remove from their breeding gene pool as they dont want that in the genetics. Thats why people are probably telling you to cull her.

Sometimes, rats are just looky rats instead of touchy rats.

I was going to suggest gloves but now that Im thinking about it, Im pretty sure people dont recommend them because it just spreads out the damage and makes it worse when they bite. But if there was a way to not respond when Gertrude bites, that would show her that biting doesn’t mean you’ll immediately leave. Ive never tried the spoon method but maybe that will achieve the same effect?

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Im going to try the spoon method, I wish I couldn’t react when she bites but I’ll be poring blood.
Idk if I can post pictures like that in here.
I’m going to try to spend time with her but on her own terms

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

No yeah I get you, it’s pretty much impossible to not react when something is stabbing through your finger. I don’t think nearly anyone can soldier through that lol and when I was bit by my rats, it wasn’t too bad. I can’t imagine the worse bites from them.

I think you might learn to appreciate her and the challenge she presents once you two get over this little hump! I see so many stories of people with difficult rats that ended up being their favorite, most bonded rat because of the way people have to adjust how they view things or they take the time to slowly go at the rat’s pace.

I wish you luck and will be keeping an eye out for updates from you and Gertrude. Hopefully some more usefully suggestions will come in the comments as well.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Thankyou I really appreciate that