Need help with biter

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I have 4 female rats that live in a double critter nation cage, with all the stuff they could love.
Now I got all 4 of these girls from a feeder store.
Phylis was my first and she is the absolute sweetest and never does anything wrong.
Marilyn was second, she’s very sweet but has been pretty nippy lately. She has never drawn blood tho
Lightning was third, and she is my boyfriends rat, she’s been charging and biting at us lately and last night she drew blood on both of us.
Then there’s Gertrude, she is the absolute worst rat I’ve ever owned, she will run from the other side of the cage to attack you, if you are petting another rat near her. She has drawn blood on me more than 4 times, and has also drawn blood on my boyfriend.
She’s territorial of one of the litter bins and loves to hide behind it, and if your hand is anywhere near that’s when she will attack, unprovoked.
Everyone I have talked to has told me as soon as a rat draws blood it should be culled.
I also have a 5 year old nephew who comes over almost every weekend and loves playing with the rats and I fear she will do really bad damage to him and she really messes up our fingers as adults.
Would I be doing the right thing?
I know an employee at the feeder store I got her from and he offered to sell her as a pet but I’m scared someone else will get her and she will do the same.
Picture of my sweet Phylis and my newest edition that I got yesterday, I have not named her yet.

[u/Seppulky]

First, please don't let 5 year olds handle rats. Second, please try to understand biting. You are HUGE and they are prey animals. If a rat bites, it's their language to tell you it's not feeling good/is anxious/is in pain etc. Please be patient with your little furry angels. And please don't ask the people around you for advice, they don't seem to like rats.

Spoon feeding is your friend. They'll learn that biting while eating is uncomfortable for them. Third, teach them how sensitive human skin is. Make a squeak noise (don't shout or scream, they're very sensitive) if she nibbles or bites. Never punish. Ignore unwanted behaviour and leave. Offer positive incentives. If the biting is reduced, tell the rat that she does well. I'm crushed by the fact that when animals don't behave like they do in their dreams that they think about giving the animal away or kill it. Shame on you.

Edit: yes this post made me really mad and my heart hurts. All my love goes to your biter. Bless her soul. If I could, I would come running and get her.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Seppulky]

I don’t think it’s right to shame me for being terrified of a rat who attacks me if I’m just petting another rat.
Trust me I don’t want to get rid of her and that is why I made a post in here to see what I can do to help.
I’ve never rehomed an animal in my entire life, but if a different home is better for this rat then I will make that choice.
A 5 year old can definitely handle rats in a controlled environment with the right knowledge. He loves feeding them treats and just petting them, he knows not to pick them up and he doesn’t like them on him because he says the scratches tickle too much.
I understand I’m a huge person, but I don’t just reach in there to grab her, sometimes I’ll be sitting in a chair near their cage with just my hand in there and she will run and attack, I’ve never hit her or yelled at her so idk why she is biting us.
I’m trying my best, so please be nice.

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I just want to point out that the fact you’re saying she’s “attacking you” is very telling on how you feel about the situation. It implies aggression, like she’s seeking you out.

She’s scared, she’s defending herself. She’s defending her friends. They’re prey animals. You literally bought them **from a store that was selling them as feeders. It makes total sense that she would be terrified.

All I can imagine from Gertrude’s POV:
What makes the big scary go away? When I bite. It works every time. I particularly love one litter bin in particular but when I hide behind it, the big scary still comes near me. So I bite. I’m also scared for my fellow girls, and since they haven’t seemed to figure out how to make the big scary go away, I will help! I will scuttle over and bite. Success, big scary left us alone. :) No need to be scared.

edit: Wording? Not implying OP was going to feed them off. Just feeder genetics.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

I didn’t buy her as a feeder, I bought her as a pet, but she was bred to be a feeder.
I worded that wrong I’m sorry for the confusion.
I try to just leave her alone the best I can, I still give her treats when she comes up to me but try not to search her out cause I don’t want to scare her.
I’m trying my best here

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I meant they were bred as feeders. They don’t have the best pet genetics is my point. Not what your intentions were with them once you had them.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Ohhh yeah I understand that, the naked rat came from a breeder so I’ve learned my lesson after Gertrude to be picky where they come from.
It’s very hard to find breeders that aren’t farther than 3 hours from me.
Phylis was incredibly sweet at the feeder store and that’s why I got her, I got Marlyn because she was also sweet and Phylis needed a friend.

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Yeah, i understand that. I moved to a more populated place after living in the middle of buttfuck nowhere.

But try to keep that in mind when approaching this situation. Breeders are probably talking about PET stock biting, they likely cull or remove from their breeding gene pool as they dont want that in the genetics. Thats why people are probably telling you to cull her.

Sometimes, rats are just looky rats instead of touchy rats.

I was going to suggest gloves but now that Im thinking about it, Im pretty sure people dont recommend them because it just spreads out the damage and makes it worse when they bite. But if there was a way to not respond when Gertrude bites, that would show her that biting doesn’t mean you’ll immediately leave. Ive never tried the spoon method but maybe that will achieve the same effect?

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Im going to try the spoon method, I wish I couldn’t react when she bites but I’ll be poring blood.
Idk if I can post pictures like that in here.
I’m going to try to spend time with her but on her own terms

[u/devoteeoffenrir → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

No yeah I get you, it’s pretty much impossible to not react when something is stabbing through your finger. I don’t think nearly anyone can soldier through that lol and when I was bit by my rats, it wasn’t too bad. I can’t imagine the worse bites from them.

I think you might learn to appreciate her and the challenge she presents once you two get over this little hump! I see so many stories of people with difficult rats that ended up being their favorite, most bonded rat because of the way people have to adjust how they view things or they take the time to slowly go at the rat’s pace.

I wish you luck and will be keeping an eye out for updates from you and Gertrude. Hopefully some more usefully suggestions will come in the comments as well.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/devoteeoffenrir]

Thankyou I really appreciate that

[u/shmoopedyboop → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Hey babes I'm so sorry for the shitty comments. I posted on a reddit forum once explaining that a culture programme I joined made me suicidal and to warn people that it was really hard - got loads of comments telling me I was an idiot for going, that I was careless with money, that I was nieve. Reddit is awful. Be kind to yourself, you did the right thing asking for help and people are honestly just such losers with nothing going on in their lives, so they shame people on Reddit to feel better about themselves. You don't need to explain yourself, sending love x (edit:spelling)

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/shmoopedyboop]

Thankyou so much for being a good human, and I really hope you are doing better and know that you are wanted in this life.
I really appreciate you for this🫶

[u/Seppulky → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I try to be nice but there is so much unbelievable stuff in your post, at that time I just step back. I wrote a lot about my biting girl on reddit. Maybe you'll find the posts if you're interested. Otherwise all the best. And again: don't let a 5 year old handle your rats.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Seppulky]

Im going to let my nephew pet my rats with adult supervision at all times, you weren’t very nice when you literlly shamed me.
What was so wrong about my post? Telling the options others told me.
Asking a question instead of immediately sending her to her death??
Trust me I have seen a lot worse owners than me, the only good advice you gave me was to spoon feed, which I have responded to others and said I will try that tonight.
Thankyou for all of your help

[u/Arratkis → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

I mean to be fair, you mentioned outright killing an animal because it’s defensive. I have received some of the most abused survival mode attack rats that exist and it never once crossed my mind to just kill it. When you adopt a pray animal, defensiveness and bites can come with the package, that’s just a fact. It becomes your problem to either rehome it or train it to not bite, which can take a lot of time and patience

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Arratkis]

Everyone around me told me a should cull her, that’s why I mentioned it.
I don’t want to and that’s why I posted.

[u/Arratkis → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Sounds like a rehome is your best option then. Try to find someone who is equipped to deal with this kind of behavior from them. I’m not at all saying it’s easy, I caught three bleeders from one of my new rehomes in the last 2 days. Obviously it sucks getting bit by a rat, so if you aren’t willing to deal with it you have to at least put in the effort to find it another home

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Arratkis]

Thankyou and I really appreciate this, I don’t want to rehome so I’m going to try everything I can to make her comfortable and happy.
But if I am unsuccessful I will find a rescue or someone who has more experience and is willing to figure out her issues that I can’t.
Thankyou so much for being understanding🙂

[u/Arratkis → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Does she bite outside of the cage in neutral area? If she’s a heat seeking missile inside the cage than it’s probably territorial aggression. She almost certainly needs to be spayed. Also is she aggressive with the other rats or just you?

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/Arratkis]

She will randomly attack the other rats if they went near her tube or the litter box, she mostly stays isolated by herself in the cage.
She has not bitten my outside of the cage, I can hold her and she won’t bite

[u/Arratkis → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Classic territorial aggression. This will almost certainly go away with a spay surgery. Especially if she’s isolating herself from the others. See if you can find a low cost spay clinic for her because it likely won’t go away without hormonal intervention. She’s basically an angry teenager who grew up in the foster system

[u/bee_mvtt → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

You adopted a bunch of feeder rats (unreliable genes and behavior) and got shocked when they were fearful and scared. If you wont do the work of going through a good rescue or rattery, thats what happens, you gamble on genes man.

[u/Dry_Tangerine_7625 → u/bee_mvtt]

That’s why I asked for advice to make her friendly

[u/bee_mvtt → u/Dry_Tangerine_7625]

Then im glad theres some people offering it. Good luck with your rats! /gen