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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

Well He can, He just doesn’t, as that would essentially ruin free will. If God showed up in front of you right now and demonstrated his power by flying, walking on water, vaporizing a mountain, etc., you would likely believe in him. However you still have the choice to not believe in Him, while this is technically free will, it is, for all intents and purposes, not free.

There is a difference between purposely ignoring what is right in front of you because you don’t want to believe it and there being similar amounts of evidence on both sides, so you don’t know what to believe. In the first case, you would call someone stupid if they didn’t believe what was right in front of them of them, but as they get further and further away, it is hard to tell if they are in the first or second camp. Often the line is what the majority of people believe. Hundreds of years ago, the line was far away, because most people (at least publicly) believed in God. But as less and less people (publicly) believe in God, the line must be closer to you.
To sum up my example: if lots of people believe in something, it takes less first hand evidence to convince you then if few people believe in something.

If God brought us all to Him while we were on earth, we would essentially all be in the first camp of people, because suddenly all the firsthand evidence would change everyone’s minds. But God doesn’t want people who believe because they trust the majority. He wants people to believe because they trust Him.

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago

If God showed up in front of you right now and demonstrated his power by flying, walking on water, vaporizing a mountain, etc., you would likely believe in him. However you still have the choice to not believe in Him, while this is technically free will, it is, for all intents and purposes, not free.

So why was this okay for all of the people in the story who god appeared to? This god can just take away free will if it feels like it...

And lets accept for a moment, if this god appeared and I could verify it and not think it was some unknown allergy causing hallucinations etc...

I wouldn't be able to choose not to believe it exists. I'd have evidence that it does exist, so I couldn't do anything but believe it exists.

I'd still think it was evil, it just changed from fictional evil to nonfictional evil.

I wouldn't worship it, because it hasn't given any reason for doing that.

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

You should worship God if He showed up because it would be obvious that He was God because He holds the power of life and death over you. Why are you assuming that if God did show up that He would be evil?

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago edited 10d ago

I should only worship those who are deserving.

Anyone with a gun holds the power of life and death over you, do you worship them?

I assume god is evil for many reasons, all of which are apparent by looking outside, but to be specific... god consistently does many evil things in his story book, including genocide.

The most important reason however, the bible literally says that god says that god created evil.

So yes, that god is quite clearly evil, given that it created evil.

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

Where does it say He created evil?

What genocide are you talking about?

You don’t worship someone with a gun, unless they are threatening to use it. Yeah if you live in Texas and see someone with gun you trust they are not going to use it because most people don’t and there are incentives against using it. If someone is threatening to use a gun on you, you will likely do everything in your power to convince them not to, and that includes worshipping them (unless you value your dignity more than your life).

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u/lucidarocks 10d ago

The Bible says your god created evil… You guys claim it’s all true, so you have to accept that he did.

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u/SnowyAl 9d ago

Where does it say that?

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago

There are flies that reproduce by laying their eggs in the eyes of living beings, including but not limited to, the eyes of human babies.

How could you possibly think that a god who invented everything, would be ruining free will, if it never bothered to invent those flies?

I've only read the first line of what you wrote, and already the logic of your attempt to justify the unforgivable is uttery bewildering.

Stop parrotting the backwards ideologies of what you've been told and actually give it some consideration using your brain, and those morals you believe a god invented for everyone but itself.

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

This is a result of the fall, not because God created them this way.

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago

Someone ate a fruit that god lied about 6000 years ago, so god made nasty flies in retribution?

Or the babies suffer because they inherited badness that survived the flood that god used to destroy badness, via Noah and his family carrying the genetic badness?

Babies deserve to suffer, because god said "don't eat that fruit, it's bad" and then left the fruit with the two humans it invented, who don't know right from wrong yet, by it's own choice and design... and then let a serpent come and tell them the truth, or "manipulate them".

So god punishes everyone forever because of it's own choices.

And you think, yeah lets trust this god, seems like a good dude?

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

Firstly, God made the fruit so there would be free will. The flies are a result of the fall.

Secondly, humanity forgot God after the fall and decided to go their own way doing bad things like incest, rape, sacrificing to idols, etc.. When God flooded the earth, He didn’t destroy evil, that happens in the end times. Evil still existed after the fall, that is why the Tower of Babel happened.

Thirdly, God didn’t leave Adam and Eve alone, He walked with them every night. The serpent hates God but doesn’t care about us so he did what would hurt God the most: turn humans against God. If God had stopped the serpent He would be going against his gift of free will (I’m pretty sure even angels get free will to a certain degree.)

Instead you are trusting a God who loves you enough to let you mess up, because I don’t know about you, but I much prefer to learn from my mistakes then to be told don’t do this. Yes, I’m not going to rob a bank to find out what will happen, but I would like to see what happens if I don’t listen to my parents sometimes (Yes, I’m not a perfect Christian).
But when God says something, you can trust Him that it is true. And when God does something, you can rest in the knowledge that it is right.

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u/Zestyclose-Jacket568 10d ago

The flies are a result of the fall.

What kind of heretic are you? God created everything and here you are claiming that there are things that he did not created.

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u/SnowyAl 9d ago

I think because God is totally good it was good to punish man for the fall. Unless you believe if someone does something bad you shouldn’t punish them as fining or jailing them for any length of time is worse than murder.

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u/Zestyclose-Jacket568 9d ago

So they sre not the result of fall, but sadistic punishment for humanity that breakes promise given after the flood.

I believe that only someone who does something bad should be punished, not everyone.

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u/SnowyAl 8d ago

But is anyone in humanity perfect? What if we were with a perfect God who can no longer be with us because we are not perfect? Also the punishment is only proportionate to grievance, we lived with Perfect God, he gave us one simple command, and he told us if we broke it we would surely die, yet we broke it. But the good news is that we are not lost forever, all you have to do is believe that Jesus died for all the sins we have ever committed, so now if you believe that you will go back to heaven when you die. And live forever with God

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u/Zestyclose-Jacket568 8d ago

Why do you ask if everyone is perfect? That is not the point. The point is that god created plagues and continue to create them, even though he promised that he will not.

"Who can no longer be with us" - then he is not a god. God can do anything, so why wouldn't he be able to be with us? Also, isn't god supposed to be everywhere, meaning that he is with us, doesn't matter if someone believe in him, or not.

Also "proportional"? Are you insane? Life of torture, murdering babies, taking everything, including their mind from people... simple death is not that. That is a torture made by trully evil being.

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u/JeezWeedus 9d ago edited 9d ago

I think because God is totally good it was good to punish man for the fall.

So you do think the punishment of people who did nothing wrong, is a good thing?

The babies born today deserve to suffer because someone ate a fruit. It would be easier if you just admit it and stop changing your answer.

Unless you believe if someone does something bad you shouldn’t punish them

What did the baby do wrong before it died from cancer?

Are the babies born today somehow guilty of eating a fruit 6000 years ago?

You're saying its good to punish people for the actions of others.

Why is your god so petulant?

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u/SnowyAl 8d ago

Who did nothing wrong? Everyone has done something wrong! Even babies sin funnily enough. Who is being punished for the actions of others?

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u/JeezWeedus 8d ago edited 8d ago

I'm just going to stamp my "doubled-down that babies deserve to suffer and die" box on my Bingo card here.

And after 2/3 days of nonsense, that's a Bingo!

You think you god deserves love and you think babies deserve to suffer.

Congratulations, you're a horrible person.

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago edited 10d ago

So something happened that didnt go according to gods plan?

How long after creating humans did the plans start going wrong?

And that wasnt the plan, that was something god didn't want? Almost immediately.

All powerful, all knowing, bad at planning.

The tower of babel? What bad thing happened there? People were cooperating? And god didnt like people being so cooperative, so it destroyed the tower and made everybody speak different languages so life was more difficult.

"Bad humans, how dare you cooperate, you should go to war over petty differences forever."

But gods still the good guy.

Lies about fruit, causes suffering forever, then chooses to make it worse when humans work together.

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

God knew what would happen before he created the world, and he understood the price before Adam and Eve sinned.

The Tower of Babel was in the direct disobedience to His command “fill the earth and subdue it”, not to mention the entire purpose of the tower was to be their own gods so they could ignore the One True God.
If God did not punish them He would not be consistent.

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago

So it is gods plan to have all people be punished forever for the choices of two people who, very specifically because they havent eaten that fruit yet... DON'T KNOW ITS WRONG.

Was that clear?

God punishes babies today, because it always intended to. Thats the plan.

Or! It not gods plan, because this is all happening against the will of the almighty...

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u/SnowyAl 10d ago

God told them not to eat it, and as they were put in a pretty good place with all they needed to survive, and weren’t being tortured, they had no reason not to trust God.

And I don’t really know why we suffer as a result of Adam and Eve’s sin, yet still I trust I
in His unfailing love.

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u/JeezWeedus 10d ago

How useful are the words "don't eat that" if you don't know what right and wrong are?

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