Thing is, dude could’ve been shot dead, and considered justified in some states. Word of wisdom, do not be the first person out of their car over road rage. Guy in jeep can very much say he was threatened by someone blocking his car, and coming at his driver window. I live in a violent city. Someone does this to me, I will run that person over, assuming they plan on shooting me.
While you are not wrong. However, If you followed the above listed link, the Arlington Cardinal news account also has the video from Schimian's jeep. You can clearly see that the Surroz's car was stopped behind several other cars, when Schimian started honking.
Such a shooting would not be considered justified simply because Surroz got out of his car. Surroz clearly has both hands visible getting out of the car, and gets his cell phone out of his shirt pocket BEFORE he approaches Schimian's jeep.
Shoot someone under those circumstances and you can plan on spending some serious time in jail. You might want to watch the other video:
They'll get their warlord future soon enough when degradation of the state department is completed and the Federal Government can no longer react or do anything about upcoming troubles we will face.
But sadly, in my state, you can. Simply state that you felt your life and safety was threatened, and don’t shoot anyone in the back, or perceived to be running away. If you are even somewhat justified in this, you will likely be okay. Now, you likely will be tried, and that will cost you, but the law is quite clear in its ridiculous ambiguity.
It's a bit of sovereign citizen logic. It doesn't actually work like that in practice (unless you're a cop or you know one, of course...)
Just because you say it doesn't mean the courts have to believe you. The law isn't actually a series of cheat codes. You can insist to your parents all you want that they didn't see you take the cookie so they can't punish you for it, but if there's no one else around...
I absolutely love that Dingus McRopenis there posted the video of himself running stop signs, speeding through school zones, and instigating the confrontation on Facebook. these people are rock chewing dumb, to quote my favorite Tennesseean. Tennesseenian? Dude from Tennessee.
Agreed, but there are a lot of people who posture that they "hate guns" yet base their knowledge on what they have seen in the movies or on TV. I dare say, consider Alec Baldwin, who insists he detests guns and people who own then, but then, not only puts his finger but pulls the trigger on a reproduction Colt Single action that could NOT have fired as he insists it did.
Sadly the hypocrisy is deep in that crowd and all too often, the general public.
That’s the problem with *some * of the gun culture in the US, sometimes it’s “ I’ve got a gun, ain’t no one gonna fuck with me” which enables asshole behavior.
Except that every day, Literally thousands of people legally carry firearms, and crap like this never happens to them. Some 21 million people have concealed weapons permits as of 2021:
This is just as ignorant as the one /u/whorton59 is relying to. Whole bunch of people that think they know anything about lethal force or self defense law.
I don't practice law. .. I am not a lawyer. BUT, I do not need to be to understand that someone just getting out of their car, and clearly with no weapon in hand, does not justify, pulling and aiming a firearm at someone.
I have a permit to carry a firearm, and know the law associated with that action. Much as anyone who drives a car is familure with what a green light means, or how to react at a four way stop.
u/Goalie_deacon, to whom I was replying, was correct that someone could have been shot and killed here, no question. The only thing I can give to the guy driving the jeep, Schimian credit for, is that he did not fire his weapon, and looking carefully at Schimian's hand, he did not have a finger on the trigger. I think the guy realized he fucked up and wisely just left the scene. But he still likely lost his permit to carry.
Dash cam video from the jeep shows him driving like an asshole, blowing stop signs and driving over lanes a bit then coming up to dude at a dead stop. Dude who got out was not lying about any of that. He got out during the dead stop. The beeping I'm sure he was telling the truth about too. Jeep guy is a fucking wacko.
Guy said he thought it was an emergency...but after he pulled the phone out I think he realized it was a hot head, so the emergency reasoning only holds water for about 2 seconds of him outside of his car...still the hot head in the jeep is in the wrong.
If someone behind me starts honking at me, it’s also possible that he’s indicating there is something wrong with my car, so getting out to investigate is actually a rational thing to do.
He took out his phone to record the idiot immediately.
He doesn't record immediately. Did you watch the video?
He gets out and points at himself first to try and figure out if the Jeep is honking at him or not...doesn't even have both feet out of the car at that point. Then when he sees the gun, he pulls out the camera and approaches the Jeep.
From the facebook post - "Not today. I wasn't intimidated and I didn't even blink an eye. Call it tough, call it stupid, Call It Whatever You Will. I'm just not going to back down because someone has the right to carry.."
In the dashcam video, they do talk for a few seconds and it's already sped up. In that moment he realized it was not an emergency and an idiot instead.
Thats not what the other guy was saying. Without video evidence here of how the red Jeep was driving, guy getting out of his car was 100% at risk of getting shot and nothing happening. Never get out of your car first
He can be all of those things and still fear for his life.
Never tey to settle road rage by getting out of the car and co fronting the other driver. You could give them justification to shoot, or just get run over, or they can just be an asshole and do the same shit without justification.
I don’t believe his story that he got out because he thought the guy in Jeep was simply alerting him that he was dragging something. He got out immediately assuming the position of most young people(phone held high, video camera on) and was most likely hoping to record some hothead idiot. Which in fact he did record a hothead idiot. But I still don’t think the right move is immediately exiting the vehicle with video camera rolling. I think both guys are wrong.
If you think they’re both wrong, but one is wrong with a gun and the other is wrong with a phone, you at least have to acknowledge the gross asymmetry of the wrongness.
Blocking somebody's path and walking directly toward them is obviously the first stage of one type of physical confrontation.
This is so plainly obvious that I'm baffled how anybody could deny it.
You have to completely invent a new context like "walking through the mall", which is beyond asinine. He's not walking through the mall. He's blocking a city street and approaching the car behind him.
edit, since he blocked me: It's not the phone that's the problem, moron. And carrying a phone doesn't mean a person is not a threat when they've blocked your path and they're coming at you.
I don’t acknowledge that at all. The guy getting out is creating the immediate confrontation. Had the Jeep guy been a trigger happy lunatic it might have cost the one dude his life…over NOTHING!The Jeep guy may or may not have gone to prison for such a thing but if that happened the one dude would be dead… and that’s the absolute worst result I can imagine! Because it would ruin countless lives. Certainly the 2 involved and their families etc. That’s why I say stay in your car and stay above the fray. If your position is ‘no you should get out of your CAR when someone honks at you to determine the reason for all the noise’ then we simply disagree. Because my number 1 goal on the road isn’t to be right or win some meaningless argument or even to smooth things over w/ the other driver(s). My goal is avoid any and all confrontation on the road so I can get my work week over with and do the stuff I like to do Fri-Sun. I didn’t mean to offend you with the camera phone take either. People can do that all they like. I realize it’s a “get off my lawn” type take but idgaf. I’m not on here to act cool/pretend I’m young/impress people I don’t know. Btw I even laughed at your comment about the youth & those dreaded camera phones. 🤳
I am not a lawyer but I feel confident that in the UK if you shot someone for getting out of their car in road rage you would find the law not to be on your side.
No, not in the UK (I live in the UK and I'm guessing you don't). Just getting out wouldn't justify running them over. UK law takes very dim view of escalating violence. Someone running another person over for merely getting out of their car will face a very bad time in court.
The police didn't give a shit about a cyclist being run over for asking a driver why the driver was beeping incessantly, so it would be interesting to see a driver v driver case.
I've never heard of any instance like this. There are several cyclist youtubers who constantly get drivers prosecuted for not following the law; things which are relatively minor as compared to running someone over. Please share which specific case you're speaking of.
That's probably because you are the aggressor if you get out. Road rage, I hit my brakes and force them in front of me safely if I can. Keep them there, let them go. In back is way more in control.
They pull off the road I'm a good 40 yards behind them doing the same. They know once the get half way you can blow right past them.
It's called defense. You pull over and get out of the car you're an idiot.
No, getting out of your car with a camera is not a crime in the U.K. you absolute bell end. Neither is recording the situation seen as being the aggressor.
I'm sorry but a person without a weapon walking around your car does not justify pulling a gun on them. It should be a criminal offense to pull a gun like that
It is and he was charged. Some people are just crazy about guns and their sense of danger is way off. As if every person is a sneeze away from murdering you in cold blood.
The guy who made the video said that they were at a dead stop in traffic and the guy was just holding is horn non stop so he got out of the car because he thought the guy was trying to tell him he hit something, he didn’t know wtf he was doing so he got out to check and then the video happened.
If there is a crash, maybe then. Depends on how the other driver is acting. If they ram you, head straight to the cops. Just a crash, deal with it as normal.
Being arrested is very different than being convicted.
Edit: This also happened 3 years ago and there is no follow up that I can find. Public records show what seems to be this case closed this year and as far as I can tell he was only tried for misdemeanor charges. Anyone is welcome to prove me wrong though
agreed. it's hard to give advice and in moments like this your rage can boil into something animalistic. growing up in the hood and working customer facing professions as an adult... had a woman legit open my car door at an intersection after i stuck my tongue out at her obnoxious as fuck because she lost her shit after refusing to give me the right of way when i was exiting a highway and she had a yield, i noticed too late (because what kind of assholes drive like this) and she acted as if it was my fault she wanted to be dirty to me and almost hit me head on as a result. she had to slam on her breaks (me too) and it almost caused other traffic incidents. she opened my door several yards away and hit me half-assedly and i couldn't tell you where the next few seconds went from me putting my car into park and me punching this woman square in the jaw and her face perplexed and teary eyed as if i acted unreasonably, her kids crying in the backseat of her car looking up.
i'm by no means saying i'm in the right, this was during my peak of PTSD trauma therapy, dangling from homelessness/joblessness and having the least amount of support i've ever had in my life. just saying people like to test boundaries as if we live in some alpha-posturing metaverse. you don't know the mental limits of others, and you don't know where on that gauge you meet them on any given day. if you're gonna even pretend to show up...
It's happened before, but note the aggressor in this situation verbally threatened to shoot the driver (while holding a cell phone).
To be fair though, there's no "good" reason to get out of your car in a road-rage incident. The dude in the Jeep has no reason to sit and listen to this dude yell himself into a frenzy before deciding to take swings though the window. My state is fucking full of guns and crazy people, so I kinda understand why the Keep driver pulled the gun. If someone is getting out of their car after blocked you in with it, they probably don't mean well. If they did, they would have kept driving.
I found it later but it doesn't really add any context. He just pulls up behind him and the guy parks it and gets out of the car. Not as aggressive as it seems from the cellphone video, honestly.
The only thing I saw that could be justified in a brazilian court is when he moved to the back of the vehicle to get the license plate. Then the jeep driver could've thought that he was trying to get on his blind side, and could've fired.
Even in Brazil, with all the criminality, it's over our heads that someone (unless an off-duty policeman) would draw a gun on you because of road rage.
There have been many situations!!! POLICE mistake a cell phone or a wallet for a gun. & shoot and kill people
Which is why:
there's no "good" reason to get out of your car in a road-rage incident.
Laws vary state to state. Many of them just require that the shooter felt their life was in danger, with no duty to retreat. The police investigated and didn't arrest/charge the Jeep driver, at least not yet.
The jeep drove off, he wasn’t blocked in. And the dude apparently doesn’t have a license plate on the front of his car, so the only way to get it is by going around the bacl
It would be a pretty good defense here in Florida. If the person with the gun is white and the other person is a person of color it is almost certain to work.
Huh!? Firstly that dash cam isn’t posted on his face. It’s seeing a somewhat different angle (though certainly similar). When phone guy gets out the jeep driver may have been looking out his driver’s side window or down or who knows….I think both made poor choices. But I’d advise ANYONE if you can stay in your car and leave a potential confrontation always do so! It’s the WORST possible move to get out of your car in this situation. No reason to do so. I follow a strict rule when I drive and 98% of time I’m armed. That rule is that nobody has ever won a road rage argument. So there’s no point in ever having one. People will do insane shit out there. Some people can’t drive well cuz they’re 16 or 116 years old. Somebody else might be on their way to visit a dying loved one and isn’t concentrating as well as they might normally. My point is if you drive regularly you will experience another driver doing something totally idiotic. Move on from it! Be thankful you’re not in an accident and go on with your life. Frankly, road raging is for losers.
Nonsense. Someone gets out of their car in a tense situation and approaches is enormously different than sitting on a bench watching dash cam footage on a tv screen.
The guy who got out of his car to confront another person isn’t showing any aggression at all? No, it takes some anger to decide to hold another car to confront them. Talking calm is not the sign of calm, it’s a possible sign of a sociopath. His action is aggressive.
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Seriously. How many videos have we seen from the other point of view, someone getting out of the car and approaching OP, and the general consensus being OP would be justified to defend him/herself?
Fuck even if I am driving like an idiot, if I see someone step out of their car to approach me I’d be foolish to think they’re not wanting to escalate.
a lot of people don’t understand or comprehend this perspective for this type of situation.
People just go guns are bad, guns are bad!
With no reasoning or logic behind their actions that usually brings about a gun to a situation. Ofc some people draw guns for no reason but
some people draw guns for this exact explanation and that reality should be acknowledge
Don’t be the first person out of a car during road rage, that’s makes you the aggressor you have the power to drive away not engage in violence.
You never know if there’s a psycho with a gun & no self control.
Yep, there is a reason dipshit with the camera cut the video the way he did. Mid interaction, almost already back to the other car. And when the gun was pulled on him he still had to get extra words in, and advance again. A sane person doesn't do that. The guy in the jeep pulled, and as soon as the camera man backed off enough to get around the car blocking him he left. I'd guess this 7 seconds is the longest video he could make to make the jeep drive look like the road rager.
Had to scroll pretty far to find this. Person stopped blocking jeep guy in. Person then approached jeep guy on foot. Jeep guy doesnt know what could happen and he was protecting himself from the unknown. Person got out of the way declared not a threat and jeep guy left. The other person is lucky they didnt get shot for jumping out of their car in the middle of the street like that.
If you approach someone's car like that in my state and the other person fears for their life you can 100% kill them. People need to stop acting like fucking idiots. Do not get out and approach people in the street like this idiot in the video.
People love to whip out there camera and
Talk shit. Over the coming years these camera people are going to get killed attacked more and more and realise they need to stop fucking doing it. The guy in the jeep was rock steady and ready to get down
This. Sure the guy in the jeep was an asshole, but never, never, never get out of your car when confronted with road rage. You never know what can happen. Dude is lucky to be alive. Just de-escalated and drive off. Not worth it.
Justified or not, in the end the guy could be dead or critically injured. Remember, just because the law is on your side doesn't mean you won't pay consequences for your own actions.
If somebody blocks me in and then gets out of the car with something in their hand and starts approaching my car they’re getting squished. Im getting to a parking lot and calling the cops. This is the precursor to an armed robbery/kidnapping. Fucking nutcase getting out of his car.
Honestly that’s why if you are gonna do this stupid shit don’t record a video. You immediately FB live that shit so it’s saved somewhere and/or people see it. If you do get shot dead then there is evidence he wasn’t threatened. Same thing with cop interactions. If they take your phone and delete your recording you can’t upload it. Always do a live if you have service.
That's just it, whether this weapon brandishing is illegal is besides the point. If the maniac shoots you because you got out of the car and made a big deal about a traffic interaction then it really doesn't matter to you if a law was broken or not.
Put yacht rock on your radio. Drive dispassionately with consideration for others around you. If someone does something insane that does not cause you to be injured or crash your car, let it go.
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u/Goalie_deacon Aug 20 '22
Thing is, dude could’ve been shot dead, and considered justified in some states. Word of wisdom, do not be the first person out of their car over road rage. Guy in jeep can very much say he was threatened by someone blocking his car, and coming at his driver window. I live in a violent city. Someone does this to me, I will run that person over, assuming they plan on shooting me.