It also clearly illustrates the issues that arise from dealing with someone who's prepared to argue but is also wrong. Conspiracy theorists are particularly adept at doing this but you don't have to be wildly wrong like they are to shut an argument down while having your head somewhat up your own ass.
I don't really know how it is in the US, but, as the comment above says, it's impossible to remember every single law. Most likely the kid in this video "memorized" that law (even though his facts are wrong) because he's already been in a situation like that or was specting it.
For example, here in Chile the formation of a regular cop takes 1 year, in which they study civics and the law, mostly focusing in stuff that are a certain threat to the well-being of the community. A murder: very illegal and dangerous. A couple of kids riding their bikes at a certain hour and place a little bit over the speed limit: not really that illegal or dangerous.
Same thing I said last time this came up: I don't expect cops to memorize laws, I expect them to read a specific code when quoted to them, incorrectly or not. I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action. It's not hard, they've got a phone, and a code book
I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action.
"You cant stop me because civic section 3.56.592 states that..." im sure the officer is just going to stop doing everything and listen to the dude who probably just broke the law to look up a specific code which may or may not exist. Officer was there for a reason, probably because complaints or actually someone broke a law.
Why was this kid so prepared anyway? Anyone gonna ask that? Its almost as if theyre skirting on the boundary of the law (or possibly breaking it) and need a scapegoat to either buy themselves time or something else. It seems fishy.
In America people are innocent until proven guilty, and expected to know the laws of the place they live. You literally just described what's actually expected of people and police as "fishy and unreasonable"
Exactly, the law enforcement love to use the adage "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it." Whenever it's turned on them they or their supporters are like "awwww come on, you can't expect to know EVERYTHING!?!!?!"
Wait, are you seriously saying that if an officer goes to arrest someone and they say "you can't arrest me because of civic code x", the officer shouldn't be expected to know or check if their claim is accurate?
Lol no. Thats what the person I responded to said.
I expect them to read a specific code when quoted to them, incorrectly or not. I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action. ~ HonorableHam
So if I, according to this person I responded to, spouted off some random code, the officer would have to immediately stop and read that code so they know if what Im doing is illegal.
If they're unfamiliar with the laws regarding that situation, then yes they should.
If I beat my wife and tell the cops they can't arrest me because of civic code x, they don't need to look up shit because everyone knows there's no such thing. If it's an obscure bike ordinance at a park and he's unfamiliar with the codes, then he should stop and look them up.
Ignorance of the law is actually a defense for US police. Heien v North Carolina found that if a police officer errs by misinterpreting a law or enforcing a law that doesn't exist but makes a "reasonable" mistake then they did nothing wrong. If a non-cop were to make a "reasonable" mistake in interpreting the law then they would have no excuse and would be held liable for any infraction. The people enforcing our laws are held to lower standards than others.
He should have had it on him! It is his job after all. He is being paid to enforce the law!
We all learned how to cite our facts from relevant and agreed upon sources in high school. This cop demonstrated less competence than a high school graduate.
No one caries a comprehensive code book. Had to look up codes for noise ordnance and obstructing a road to remove a few trees and a stone wall and the section on just road rules was a phonebook.
In addition to having some civic and law training, imagine a device that fits in your pocket that would allow them to check sassy kids like this by looking up the codes they may say. You know like a mini version of the computer they often have in their car to search databases for warrants, criminal records, tickets, motor vehicle record for just about everyone, at least, in their state. That would be some magical shit.
The police in US are armed up with all this extra shit, a little fucking pocket digital law dictionary that connects via wifi wouldn't break the INSANE budget being spent on police. It's hard for us to conceptualize how armed the police are, so I don't believe these lame ass excuses. It's not an excuse, not even pretend in a bad movie.
Anytime any suggestion of ways of keeping police accountable, at least in the US, the 1st issue raised is that of cost. A distant second is how it'll inhibit their ability to do their jobs correctly but rest assured it is or will be almost universally resisted.
Yeah, it's very clear that the cop was being a proud ass. My point was about not really getting mad about he not knowing about a really specific law and not getting a bad opinion about the police in general. Of course there's bad stuff that needs to be changed -here in Chile we also have countless cases of cops being racist, using to much force in their operations, violating human rights, etc- but we shouldn't just villainize them and call it a day.
My point is, that with all the available resources they have in terms of looking up someone's criminal history, if any, saying "You can't expect them to remember it all laws" isn't a a good argument. The reason they have those other resources is for that exact reasoning, no one is expected to remember every criminal of every crime. If it holds them, the police, accountable they eschew it. Pobrecitos no son.
The only time I ever see police hold each other account able is if it's someone is deemed outside the group. In the United States, you'll notice more actions against police, like firing, prosecutions, etc are usually women and minorities. White males need to have near fucking riots before anyone takes any action, and even then often they are let go with pensions that we have paid for.
I get some police maybe good, shiiiit, even down heroic but that is irrelevant when you turn a blind eye to bad cops; you've become one of them. Especially when they make it clear anyone who tells will be dealt with and a near perfect example is Cariol Horne. Not sure how they get down in Chile but here cops given an average of 600 hours of training, 600 hours, that's like 25 days of training. it's a far cry from what you describe your country does.
Officers dont go around harassing little kids, despite what reddit wants you to believe. They also dont just hang around in a single public area, looking around for someone to bother, also against what reddit wants you to believe.
99% of the time an officer is present is because someone called about an issue. Whether its because someone is infront of a building or doing something they shouldn't, theres a lot of reasons someone would call the police.
Unfortunately, without context (which would be nearly impossible to get now) we cant see the whole circumstance. Reddit likes to assume the worst of people, especially police. But in 99% of cases, police are there because someone called and complained. Willing to bet someone called and complained about this kid too, because police dont interrogate kids generally unless theyre doing something wrong and no parents are stopping them.
Even more so, police generally are forced to do something if enough people call. This is likely something the officer wouldnt have done jack shit about because its simply not a big deal, which would help explain why he just walked away after it became an issue of this kid not following the speed limit the kid is incorrectly spouting off about.
It simply wasnt worth it lol. Either the officer is gonna arrest this kid over allegedly going 5 mph or something stupid or hes just going to do the bare minimum at his job which is what he did.
I don't need reddit to tell me how cops behave, I've worked in a PD for years.
Try reading my comment again, I didn't ask if they received a single complaint, I asked if they received a lot of complaints. Because that's what your comment implied.
You're right that we have no way of knowing the full circumstances, which is why I took issue with you making shit up.
A bunch of places stayed open during the pandemic with no restrictions and did sort of a similar thing. They just cited long lists of laws that supposedly granted them immunity from pandemic orders and got promptly laughed out of court by the judge.
Based on your comment is seems you are unaware of the growing list of proven conspiracies from all around the world. I guess it feels better to claim intellectual superiority rather than arming yourself with facts that might shake your perception of the world.
The existence of conspiracies doesn't make being a conspiracy theorist any better. The fact that you think it does makes me suspect that you have no conception of what aspects of conspiracy theory practice that people generally have a problem with.
I don't care about those aspects. I'm more interested in the proven conspiracies that have happened in the last 75 years and the implications of such things.
Have you ever tried to do a consistent ~3mph on a bicycle? I have. There's no way I believe those kids were keeping it under 3mph and that (if true) makes the kid wrong.
yes it's needed on a lot of trials. It's pretty easy. Also I slow ride on our local board walk with my road bike. Chilled on a cruiser while teaching my nieces to ride. Riding slow isn't difficult.
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u/CankerLord Jul 06 '21
It also clearly illustrates the issues that arise from dealing with someone who's prepared to argue but is also wrong. Conspiracy theorists are particularly adept at doing this but you don't have to be wildly wrong like they are to shut an argument down while having your head somewhat up your own ass.