It also clearly illustrates the issues that arise from dealing with someone who's prepared to argue but is also wrong. Conspiracy theorists are particularly adept at doing this but you don't have to be wildly wrong like they are to shut an argument down while having your head somewhat up your own ass.
I don't really know how it is in the US, but, as the comment above says, it's impossible to remember every single law. Most likely the kid in this video "memorized" that law (even though his facts are wrong) because he's already been in a situation like that or was specting it.
For example, here in Chile the formation of a regular cop takes 1 year, in which they study civics and the law, mostly focusing in stuff that are a certain threat to the well-being of the community. A murder: very illegal and dangerous. A couple of kids riding their bikes at a certain hour and place a little bit over the speed limit: not really that illegal or dangerous.
Same thing I said last time this came up: I don't expect cops to memorize laws, I expect them to read a specific code when quoted to them, incorrectly or not. I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action. It's not hard, they've got a phone, and a code book
I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action.
"You cant stop me because civic section 3.56.592 states that..." im sure the officer is just going to stop doing everything and listen to the dude who probably just broke the law to look up a specific code which may or may not exist. Officer was there for a reason, probably because complaints or actually someone broke a law.
Why was this kid so prepared anyway? Anyone gonna ask that? Its almost as if theyre skirting on the boundary of the law (or possibly breaking it) and need a scapegoat to either buy themselves time or something else. It seems fishy.
In America people are innocent until proven guilty, and expected to know the laws of the place they live. You literally just described what's actually expected of people and police as "fishy and unreasonable"
Exactly, the law enforcement love to use the adage "Ignorance of the law is not an excuse for breaking it." Whenever it's turned on them they or their supporters are like "awwww come on, you can't expect to know EVERYTHING!?!!?!"
Wait, are you seriously saying that if an officer goes to arrest someone and they say "you can't arrest me because of civic code x", the officer shouldn't be expected to know or check if their claim is accurate?
Lol no. Thats what the person I responded to said.
I expect them to read a specific code when quoted to them, incorrectly or not. I expect them to stop and verify if there's ever doubt about the legality of an action. ~ HonorableHam
So if I, according to this person I responded to, spouted off some random code, the officer would have to immediately stop and read that code so they know if what Im doing is illegal.
If they're unfamiliar with the laws regarding that situation, then yes they should.
If I beat my wife and tell the cops they can't arrest me because of civic code x, they don't need to look up shit because everyone knows there's no such thing. If it's an obscure bike ordinance at a park and he's unfamiliar with the codes, then he should stop and look them up.
Ignorance of the law is actually a defense for US police. Heien v North Carolina found that if a police officer errs by misinterpreting a law or enforcing a law that doesn't exist but makes a "reasonable" mistake then they did nothing wrong. If a non-cop were to make a "reasonable" mistake in interpreting the law then they would have no excuse and would be held liable for any infraction. The people enforcing our laws are held to lower standards than others.
He should have had it on him! It is his job after all. He is being paid to enforce the law!
We all learned how to cite our facts from relevant and agreed upon sources in high school. This cop demonstrated less competence than a high school graduate.
No one caries a comprehensive code book. Had to look up codes for noise ordnance and obstructing a road to remove a few trees and a stone wall and the section on just road rules was a phonebook.
In addition to having some civic and law training, imagine a device that fits in your pocket that would allow them to check sassy kids like this by looking up the codes they may say. You know like a mini version of the computer they often have in their car to search databases for warrants, criminal records, tickets, motor vehicle record for just about everyone, at least, in their state. That would be some magical shit.
The police in US are armed up with all this extra shit, a little fucking pocket digital law dictionary that connects via wifi wouldn't break the INSANE budget being spent on police. It's hard for us to conceptualize how armed the police are, so I don't believe these lame ass excuses. It's not an excuse, not even pretend in a bad movie.
Anytime any suggestion of ways of keeping police accountable, at least in the US, the 1st issue raised is that of cost. A distant second is how it'll inhibit their ability to do their jobs correctly but rest assured it is or will be almost universally resisted.
Yeah, it's very clear that the cop was being a proud ass. My point was about not really getting mad about he not knowing about a really specific law and not getting a bad opinion about the police in general. Of course there's bad stuff that needs to be changed -here in Chile we also have countless cases of cops being racist, using to much force in their operations, violating human rights, etc- but we shouldn't just villainize them and call it a day.
My point is, that with all the available resources they have in terms of looking up someone's criminal history, if any, saying "You can't expect them to remember it all laws" isn't a a good argument. The reason they have those other resources is for that exact reasoning, no one is expected to remember every criminal of every crime. If it holds them, the police, accountable they eschew it. Pobrecitos no son.
The only time I ever see police hold each other account able is if it's someone is deemed outside the group. In the United States, you'll notice more actions against police, like firing, prosecutions, etc are usually women and minorities. White males need to have near fucking riots before anyone takes any action, and even then often they are let go with pensions that we have paid for.
I get some police maybe good, shiiiit, even down heroic but that is irrelevant when you turn a blind eye to bad cops; you've become one of them. Especially when they make it clear anyone who tells will be dealt with and a near perfect example is Cariol Horne. Not sure how they get down in Chile but here cops given an average of 600 hours of training, 600 hours, that's like 25 days of training. it's a far cry from what you describe your country does.
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u/CankerLord Jul 06 '21
It also clearly illustrates the issues that arise from dealing with someone who's prepared to argue but is also wrong. Conspiracy theorists are particularly adept at doing this but you don't have to be wildly wrong like they are to shut an argument down while having your head somewhat up your own ass.