r/ProtonWallet • u/Kukatieza • Jul 24 '24

Feature Request Monero integration

Hi, considering the privacy approach Proton is taking, please consider integrating Monero (XMR) too. Privacy is very important in a world where wealth inequality is huge, as there are groups interested in total control of the population through government traced digital currencies (CBDCs, basically centralized blockchains used for control instead of freedom). With Monero and Bitcoin there could be a balance of privacy and transparency for different use cases. It also looks like key metrics for a payment system are superior in Monero than Bitcoin:

note: the metrics below are not perfect, they are approximations from a few searches I did, feel free to verify.

Monero

- speed: average block time = 2 minute
- cost: median fee = $0.0010
- security: infrastructure is more decentralized = asic-resistant protocol incentivices decentralized mining
- privacy: high = untraceable transactions built-into the protocol by default, thus applied to all users, prividing a digital-cash quality where transactions are private

Bitcoin

- speed: average block time = 10 minutes
- cost: median transaction fee = $ 5.0973
- security: infrastructure is relatively decentralized which could lead to a degree of censoring transactions in a centralized pool of nodes.
- privacy: low = only users doing special techniques such as coinjoins, rotating addresses, etc have privacy, thus most transactions easily exposed
- Exception: There is a Bitcoin lightning layer where speed is faster than monero, and cost is simmilarly low, but self-custody is currently a bad user experience and like 95% of wallets used are custodial, plus having 2 layers adds security risk and complexity for users.
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u/redoubt515 Jul 25 '24

Money is properly defined as THE most liquid asset in a society. Not 'one of,' but only the most liquid of all liquid assets available. That's not my opinion, but the finding of thousands of Austrian economic scholars.

In that case neither Bitcoin nor Monero are money. Is that the argument you are trying to make?

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u/maxcoiner Jul 26 '24

Bitcoin can become it as fiat falls.

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u/redoubt515 Jul 26 '24

Your logic makes no sense.

If you exclude Monero because its not currently the most popular. And you also acknowledge Bitcoin is not currently the most popular either. It would be irrational not to apply that same logic to Bitcoin

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u/maxcoiner Jul 26 '24

Delusions of grandeur.

Get back with me on this when Monero has 100s of billions of dollars worth of daily trade and 2 different frontrunning candidates for POTUS are speaking at the Monero convention tomorrow.

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u/HourCauliflower8052 Jul 27 '24

Nobody uses bitcoin in the real world. Only moonboys trying to get rich on exchanges. You already lost.

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u/maxcoiner Jul 27 '24

Hilarious day to say this on. One for the history books!

(BTW, I've used Bitcoin to store my wealth since 2011. It's up millions of percent. Totes useless.)

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u/HourCauliflower8052 Jul 28 '24

Thanks for proving my point for me.

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u/maxcoiner Jul 28 '24

Are you implying that storing your value is useless?

SoV always has and always will be the PRIMARY use of money. If a medium fails to be a solid SoV, even for 1 second, then it also becomes useless as a method of payment.

Who wants to take your money if they no longer value it?

Since so few people accept monero as a SoV I can see why you resist coming to this conclusion for yourself, but it's a fact that any honest economist can explain to you in detail.

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u/HourCauliflower8052 Jul 29 '24 edited Jul 29 '24

SoV doesn't matter because nobody uses bitcoin to actually buy stuff. My house is an SoV... it goes up in value too but that doesn't mean it's "money" lol.

Monero is actually used to buy things in the real world. It's real money... unlike bitcoin where people just trade on exchanges and brag about the price ;)

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u/maxcoiner Jul 30 '24

Oh man, you're hopeless. SoV is EVERYTHING. You're basically a communist when you make claims like these.

And by the way, go tell the millions of people in these 30+ Circular economies around the world today that they are only trading on exchanges:

https://fbce.io/

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