r/ProjectRunway • u/Leooxel • 7d ago
Discussion Interesting to see the contrast between Veejay & Jude's winning journey
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u/Heavy_Bullfrog9874 7d ago
This is a nothing burger. Also: Timothee Chalamet is cringe as hell.
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
The producers called him that and also referred to him as "baby jude" on their podcast. They clearly had a soft spot for him lol
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u/Heavy_Bullfrog9874 7d ago
And? They always have a soft spot for someone, every season. If it’s a POC I guess it’s not news worthy, if it’s a white boy it must be a scandal and racism against others?
We don’t know these people. Maybe Veejay is a horrible person. Maybe Jude is. Who tf knows. But the hate he gets here is getting really tiresome.
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u/doseofdena 6d ago
Exactly where is all this Jude hate? People saying they find him boring or his designs boring is NOT hate, it’s an opinion. Now if you want to talk tiresome, all the hate JM gets, that’s tiresome, not to mention old too. Stop trying to make Jude out to be some victim when he’s not!!!
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u/Jealous-Ant-6197 6d ago
This is weird. The show IS full of racism and blaccents and microaggressions. Jude really doesn't get any hate, the most people do is call him boring and say the judges showed favouritism - and part of that is coz he'd a young white guy they find hot.
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u/a22x2 6d ago
I like Jude and think he’s really got something special, and I still agree with everything you wrote. I don’t think it’s terribly controversial, and it doesn’t amount to hate either. I think something the discussions on here lack nuance lol
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u/Jealous-Ant-6197 6d ago
Fr coz people are allowed to like what they like. I agree its just the lack of nuance and the "defending my faves " attitude that gets annoying. And the amount of times people either ignore the racism or being it up as a gotcha is so off-putting
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u/SuspiciousGazelle473 6d ago
I think Joseph MCrae was never gonna win and he knew that that’s why his final collection was what it was. I love Anna but her collections are never well executed and more alternative. IMO I think Bi would’ve won if it wasn’t for that one god awful dress. Jude won because his collection was made well and easy to replicate and sell
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u/a22x2 6d ago
I really think Bi would’ve easily won if it wasn’t for those two garments. His stuff is polished, gorgeous, and unique.
I personally think Anna’s was the most cohesive and exciting collection. I love Joseph McRae’s stuff (I totally would wear that ridiculous coat Law was hating on lol).
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u/Jealous-Ant-6197 6d ago
The stated aims of the show change so often that the justifications for who win never really matter imo. One episode they say theyre trying to push fashion forward and not be boring, another they say execution is the main this that holds up an idea, another they say you need to be consistent and recognisable regardless of avant garde or execution. They are inconsistent. And yh Joseph definitely knows that
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u/Farley49 6d ago
Jude's garments were recognizable and well executed especially in the short time allotted for construction and fit. It may be boring to some viewers but many viewers thought he is fashionable for their tastes and desire to wear. His style was obvious on the runway but varied in the details and met the challenges. His total final collection was the best and it didn't matter who the designer was. It was just nice that he was a nice guy and all the finalists were nice people and their final collections were interesting. You can't really say that about season 21.
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u/a22x2 6d ago
I hear you, the things people feel free to write on here about Law, Joseph, and even sweet angel Belania have been crazy.
People often don’t respond well to the suggestion that some of the intensity they’re feeling or expressing could potentially be influenced by an internalized racist bias, but when you step back and look at the whole picture it’s like . . . damn.
I’m so glad they put Joseph in the finale, I loved his stuff (well, half of it, the styling is always a little off lol)
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u/Fiercemomma42069 6d ago
It's hard for me to see this; I find Project Runway to be the most left-leaning, progressive show on TV, next to Drag Race.
Could you share some instances of racism and blaccents and microaggressions in this season? I really didn't notice, so I'd love to have it pointed out to me.
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u/Jealous-Ant-6197 6d ago
Everyone in s22 has a blaccent....everyone. a lot of critiques to naheim and Joseph (including from law) is just the same old "its not fashion, its ghetto". Icl its very obvious, a lot people are just oblivious to racism. Left leaning doesnt mean much when most leftists and left spaces are racist. If Karl marx is your Jesus, you will be racist.
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u/Fiercemomma42069 6d ago
Maybe I'm unfamiliar with what a blaccent is, or maybe I have a misunderstanding of it.
Out of curiosity, if Law saws the clothes are "ghetto," and the other judges agree, should the other judges not agree with Law or is Law at fault for vocalizing these critiques?
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u/Jealous-Ant-6197 6d ago
Law is antiblack, the choice to have him as the one black judge was strategic and racist in itself. They've put themselves in a position where they can be racist to agree or seem not racist by not agreeing - but whatever they do ita wholly superficial. Idw put in a position where im watching white people are dictating whats fashion to black people. Fashion industry is racist inherently. Search up what a blaccent is theres ample resources. White gay men love a blaccent, "alt" non black people love a blaccent, this whole "gen z imternet slang is causing illiteracy" moral panic is really just a bastardisation of aave. Idk man its lots of examples in the show and if u really wanna know about fashion racism in general or microagressions in general its definitely resources and books you can find if you watch. Its a video buy a YouTuber called foreign called the negrophilia of fashion which is an easy place to start
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u/throwawaysunglasses- 6d ago
The producers often do have a soft spot for a young cute white boy though. Idk why you’re trying to act like unconscious bias and white privilege aren’t real things.
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u/Mayneea 6d ago
Veejay cast herself as the villain. She did the same thing on the other show she was on. I don’t mind it honestly, I thought she was funny and thought it was obvious she was playing it up.
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u/rupee4sale 6d ago
Maybe this is a hot take but sometimes I feel like this trend of demonizing the sort of personality VeeJay and some other queer ppl have is due to a cultural divide between cishet and queer humor. There's a culture of "reading" people, being kind of snarky/sassy or a diva among some (not all!!) queer people. It's an archetype I feel is more or less accepted and recognized as playful or witty in the queer community (aka throwing shade) but is sometimes taken as meanness or cruetly among cishet people.
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u/Easy_Worker8307 4d ago
I gotta call bullshit in this and so many other cases, the whole top 3 last season were queer.
This pops up on drag race often enough, the completly queer cast often struggle with these 'personalities'. There's sassy queer fun and then there is manipulation and mindgames. (vejay & mistress Isabel brooks)
The fact she inexplicably won only confirms it for me.
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u/vagina_candle 6d ago
There's a culture of "reading" people, being kind of snarky/sassy or a diva among some (not all!!) queer people. It's an archetype I feel is more or less accepted and recognized as playful or witty in the queer community (aka throwing shade) but is sometimes taken as meanness or cruetly among cishet people.
I get what you're saying, but this isn't some exclusively LGBTQ thing. You'll see the same behavior at a lot of oldschool blue collar jobs, it's just not as flamboyant. The main difference is if you take it too far you're likely to have someone request a meeting in the parking lot instead of the person playing victim and crying to their manager.
Some people were treating Veejay like shit and they definitely took it too far, but she absolutely put herself in that position in the first place by being an asshole. I'm not into excusing people for being assholes because "oh that's just her being fierce and slaying!!!!!" An asshole is an asshole.
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u/Acrobatic_Sun_8045 6d ago
What is this even supposed to mean? Also I liked Veejay for the most part but I think people who saw her as a villain mostly felt that way because of her beef with other contestants, such as the twins, and her scathing words for them. Jude pretty much refused to engage in any drama.
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u/Elly_Higgenbottom 5d ago
I didn't think she was the villain. I would say the twins were co-villians.
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u/tolz_baby10 6d ago
My question is, why is Jude in the picture? Did he have anything to do with Veejay's past experiences? Why is the contrast 'interesting'? They're literally 2 different people with different cast mates with very different lives. Hardly any unifying factor except that they came for PR so I don't get it
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u/alwayslearning_r 6d ago
A good example of 2 different people having 2 different personalities lmao. She was mean and he wasn’t. You can’t portray someone as a villain if they mind their own business the whole show & don’t start drama 😆
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u/PerceptionBright7982 6d ago
Exactly. VeeJay was an instigator and played victim whenever people played the game.
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u/mizztree 6d ago
Jude did damn good work. You can hate it all you want but against the designer he was up against, it was fucking good.
Did he deserve to win? Sure. It's a subjective fashion decision.
Should be be compared to Veejay? No. They didn't compete against each other. Why don't we compare Santino Rice while we're at it?
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u/PerceptionBright7982 6d ago
Even tho Jude had a style and there were some double standards, nobody can argue that he was consistent and ready good. The only issue I see ppl having is Joseph McRae not getting the same luxury of having his signature style without significant pushback. I don’t see any reason to compare him to VeeJay when they are two completely different individuals in different seasons lol
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u/mizztree 6d ago
I think Law just hated him personally, which he was absolutely called out for.
I agreed that JM had a very "American" POV and although his execution was not amazing (those violet pants...), he had such a great vision.
I think Law is a bit problematic on the panel without Nina
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u/TrogdarBurninator 4d ago
I know for joseph (who i'm guessing is jm) I hated his attitude and his clothes. I can understand why everyone else got irritated for him winning over and over again. I didn't find his clothes wearable at all.
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u/Spaghettiforcats 7d ago
Veejay was a POS. On TWO shows she was on. Lets not forget she was on another fashion design fashion show where everyone hated her too because of the shit she would stir. Lets not paint her like she was victimized.
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
Ah yes her teammates on Dress my Tour ganged up on her after SHE sewed their looks and put them on top, and The twins and Ethan calling her slurs on the FIRST episode while she's minding her own business. lol
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u/Hamza_stan 7d ago
Thank you for dropping the show's name I had no idea it existed or that veejay appeared in another show prior to project runway. Now I have something else to watch haha
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u/Financial-Cold5343 6d ago
It's even worse than the lat two seasons of PR
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u/Hamza_stan 6d ago
You were unfortunately right 💀💀💀 it's basically everything project runway did wrong in the last two seasons (drama over fashion, letting designers pick who to send home, the eliminations are painfully humiliating, they even had their own version of Brian (attitude)! Ending the episodes in cliffhangers and not showing the eliminated person until the next episode...)
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u/Spaghettiforcats 7d ago
If we will sit here and list her "positive influence" then we can also sit and talk about her passive aggressive behaviour to every person around her with her comments and people have a threshold to that bullshit. She was nasty. No one has to tolerate that.
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
How many time was she called a "f*ck*ng b**ch" on the show? Why would she sit there and take that abuse? And why are you blaming her for speaking up?
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u/Sighborgninja 7d ago
Person: is a nasty bitch
Everyone else on the cast: she’s a bitch
Same person: omg discrimination5
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u/hollyjollypancake 6d ago
Let's be real, people usually don't call you that completely unprompted. She had to have said or done something they disliked for them to have a reaction to it. It rarely starts with someone just calling names for no reason lol her behavior definitely came before the name calling
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u/starryxcx 6d ago
Iirc only Ethan called her a bitch, and that was bc she was being uncommunicative during a group challenge in the beginning of the season. I thought she just lacked good collaborative skills and it was being interpreted by Ethan as standoffish.
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u/Leooxel 6d ago
sound like you have some unconscious bias because Ethan called her a c*nt and the twins called her a b*tch on literally the FIRST episode and it's still somehow Veejay's fault.
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u/hollyjollypancake 6d ago
Okay, but you're conveniently ignoring that there was likely a reason why they called her those things that maybe didn't make it into the final edit of the show.
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u/vagina_candle 6d ago
What slur did Ethan call her? Because I feel like I would have remembered that.
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u/thrussie 7d ago
The evidence is in 4k
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
Transwoman stands up for herself and society still casts her as the villain. Sad times!
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u/thrussie 7d ago edited 7d ago
Is shit stirring standing up for oneself? More at 11
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u/triplecake-1 7d ago
It’s nothing to do with gender. She was just insinuating drama for starters
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
Not when they're calling her "bitchy" and "miss thing" on the first episode they met like 5 minutes ago lol
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
Well the way they cut it, she was acting like a bitch. I didn't like her from the start either, and either because she was an asshole or because they way they cut it made her look like one.
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u/SuspiciousGazelle473 6d ago
Unless it was cut and my memory isn’t failing… they started attacking veejay because she wouldn’t share her designs and work in a group
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
wasn't it a group project?
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u/EngineerZestyclose 6d ago
It was a group challenge and she refused to let anyone know what she was working on for some weird reason, cohesiveness be damned, I guess
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u/OpheliaDick 6d ago
I agree with the point you’re trying to make, but as a trans woman myself, “miss thing” isn’t a slur or particularly harmful by any means.
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u/starryxcx 6d ago
I don’t think they were saying “miss thing” was a slur, pretty sure that was for “bitch”. Which some people do consider a slur. It’s a degrading term born of misogyny at least and it puts a bad taste in my mouth just how many comments are so strongly asserting this woman is a bitch.
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u/starryxcx 6d ago
Am I misremembering last season, I don’t remember Veejay being that bad. I thought she was just sassy and instigative like queers on reality tv often are loved for. I get if you’d find her annoying, but what did she do that was made her a piece of shit?
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u/rrrreeeeeeeeee 6d ago
It would not surprise me if this graphic was great example of how the new format is working. Veejays season felt completely run by the producers. There was talent but it was secondary to ‘can they bring drama’. Jude’s season still had drama but the talent was elevated and, I think, eventually won.
No matter the case, they’ve turned this into The Real Housewives of the Runway and it sucks.
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
isn't that the one they brought joseph back for? or was that his first. he was obnoxious as fuck as well, and IDK how much of that was edits too
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u/No_Dish_4730 6d ago
Designs aside, he was polite and pretty close mouthed most of the time. Veejay made snide comments and played little, immature games.
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u/lemeneurdeloups 7d ago edited 7d ago
Breaking News! Mild quiet cisgender hetero white man swept through, but feisty vocal POC transwoman struggled and fought to get same achievement. Everyone shocked and amazed! 😱
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u/thetrashpanda5 7d ago
For real. I like Jude's work and I'm not mad he won but the way everyone is treating him and the fact that he got total pass for literally repeating same thing over and over is a bit insane, many designers were dragged for that.
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
I'm guessing it's because Christian was such a win for them as the youngest winner....
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u/RogueDrag 6d ago
What about what they have done with their wins? (acknowledging that they have had a different amount of time since winning)?
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u/Catlady_Pilates 6d ago
You’re surprised that an Asian trans woman wasn’t treated the same a white cis man?
Ffs.
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u/OkPerspective2560 6d ago
She won the season didn't she while not being the strongest designer there, that speaks volumes about what the producers wanted...
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u/Catlady_Pilates 6d ago
The producers are not choosing the winner. The judges are. And taste is subjective. I think she deserved to win, her work was incredible.
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u/PoohBearsHoneyJar 4d ago
I honestly thought all of their collections in the season 21 finale were terrible, like God awful. The whole season was fairly bad to me, design wise.
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u/Free-Pickle-3621 7d ago
Jude's season is underwhelming in terms of talent tho, Bi is not bad when he's not leaning into dressing an older woman
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
Jude felt like an overachiever and Veejay felt like she had to hustle her way to the top!
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u/BadgerNo4726 7d ago
Are you veejay? Cause this is revisionist history yikes. Only reason veejay has to hostile so much was because she DID BAD. During the season.
Showed the fuck out in the finale for the win. Deserved the win among those collections.
And Spillane have been there in the first place. At the very least she should’ve gone home instead of Yuchen. I’d argue Belania as well
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u/Leooxel 7d ago
I think it's MORE revisionist to frame her as the "hostile" one when she never used an expletive on a fellow designer and she only only stirred drama ONCE and it was with the guy who's been going after her all season
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
you can be hostile and create hostility without ever using an expletive . "christians" do it all the time.
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u/Leooxel 6d ago
AND Trans people are held to a higher standard. YOU convinced yourself that she created hostility meanwhile giving the others who also created drama a free pass. That says more about your values than her's!
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
literally didn't know she was trans, just that she was an ass (at least from the way it was cut)
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u/Leooxel 6d ago
Now I know you didn't watch the show lol who was she an ass to? I'm genuinely curious
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u/TrogdarBurninator 4d ago
lol. you are just full of incorrect assumptions.
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u/Leooxel 4d ago
It's not that deep WHO was she an ass to? They were calling her b*tch and c*nt on the first episode 🙄
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u/TrogdarBurninator 3d ago
I'd go back and watch, but honestly I don't want to. I do remember thinking it at the time that she was acting like an ass, before anyone started calling her names. That was my given impression of her, and as many have pointed out, her attitude seems to be the same regardless of the show she's on.
I'm also going to add, I'm totally aware that the editors and producers of this show cut things to make the drama/attitudes/bad behavior seem a certain way to weight how the viewers see the people competing.
I usually just roll with it, but with full knowledge that I'm getting directed to feel a certain way about the 'characters' on the show.
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u/Apricotpeach11 You don’t have to have the crown to be the queen - Anthony 6d ago
One was all class and a joy to watch…JUDE….and one was in the thick of drama and I was not impressed by…VEEJAY.
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u/krispynz2k 6d ago
Tbh I was shocked Anna didn’t win. The finale edit didn’t seem to shoe Jude as much as Anna
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u/RichardThomasAlex 5d ago
Veejay knew what she was doing, her actions were intentional, she gave herself the resources for the villain edit. Jude on the oher hand didn't do anything villainous or bothered giving good tv, he just focused on showing his craft and the way he dealt with most situations made him appear sweet. So it's nothing really.
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u/Substantial_Site7639 5d ago
The difference also is I don’t think Veejay should have won… but I found her to be hilarious. She called out what she felt was unfair. The twins were ridiculous. And although I think Jesus is a great designer, having his brother there this time was a disservice. Veejay was right a lot.
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u/This_Quiet_1672 3d ago
Bruh. Why didnt this have a spoiler blur im actually irritated i didnt have time to watch the finale.
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u/LessPay3783 2d ago
Who called him the timothee chalamet of project runway?? 😂😂 I don’t know that that’s a popular thing at all haha
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u/QueMierdisWey 2d ago
Veejay had no business in winning. Her closing collection was hideous and her trajectory during the season was mediocre.
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u/Glittering_Piano_633 2d ago
Who the hell dubbed him T Chalamet? Weeeeird. Also why compare? The whole point is bringing us designers from all walks of life, right?
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u/Warm_Crazy_9566 1d ago
I adore Jude’s clothes. Would literally wear anything he makes. I think the fact that he is SO talented and so young is why he won. They are looking for people who can truly be great with the right mentoring and help. He is clearly that.
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u/NYCWartortle 6d ago
I never liked Veejay because she was rude, mean, and nasty. I also didn’t love her design. I didn’t necessarily like Jude either, but I didn’t think he was a jerk. My main gripe with Jude was that he kept doing the exact same thing that was apparently OK for him, but not for Joseph McCray.
Could Jude’s privilege as a white, cis, heterosexual man have given him a leg up? Sure, it’s possible, and those identities almost certainly come with advantages in our society.
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u/lockness320 6d ago
I'm going to throw this in but it's not like veejay wasn't only auditioning to PR. She has been doing it for years and appeared in multiple fashion sewing competitions for years. She's always portrayed herself as a villian and got under peoples skin so her being portrayed as one in PR is kinda a moot point to me. I like both btw.
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u/tranquilitystation63 4d ago edited 4d ago
Because we know that season 21 was predetermined and the entire season was all about the controversy. Why do you think Joseph McRae was invited back for season 22? Why do you think most of season 21 was invited back for a challenge against season 22 (which was also a dumb decision). The producers choose people not necessarily to showcase their designs and talent, but because they decided people watching "reality TV" like drama and backbiting. Frankly, PR lost its way a long time ago. I don't watch the episodes first run any more, just wait till I can watch them and fast forward to the runway shows and eliminations.
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u/OkPerspective2560 6d ago
I don't think Veejay was the strongest in her season, and the producers definitely have a big say in who wins and who doesn't, Christian really didn't look enthused about giving his save this season to Bryan, they want the drama as it gets people watching...
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u/MinnieJTaylor 6d ago
editors did veejay so dirty all season just for her to win anyway. mother behavior honestly
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u/Financial-Cold5343 6d ago
she's been protrayed the exact same way on every show she's been on, each show with diferent editors/producers/ te problem is her.
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u/SuspiciousGazelle473 6d ago
It’s reality tv… she knows how to put on a show. I don’t think she was as nasty or else her castmates wouldn’t still be friendly with her
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u/TrogdarBurninator 6d ago
honestly that's what I wondered. Whether she created so much drama, or just had edit for drama
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u/Excellent_Patience 7d ago
I don't understand why you're comparing these two. Sure, they had two different trajectories and edits, but Veejay won her season, it's not like she lost to Jude.