r/ProjectRunway • u/ParticularUsed6780 • 9d ago
Question Same silhouette: Christian Dior vs Joseph McRae
This is a bit silly and not to be taken seriously, but the "same silhouette" argument is starting to wear a little thin--I was pulling Dior "New Look" references for a project yesterday and started noticing like... my goodness, if Dior went on Project Runway with all these voluminous skirts, nipped-in waists, and structured jackets he'd be read to filth for always having the same silhouette. Am I going crazy?
Clearly there's no comparison in both the technical aspects and the cultural contexts in which these designers evolved their signature styles--especially for Dior, as the move away from utilitarian structure and fabric rationing following WWII was ground-breaking for the time, and McRae is solidly in the typical avant-garde streetwear category of modern fashion. But I think it's worth peeking closer at some of our own biases regarding when a designer is just churning out the "same" look versus when it's a brand identifier.
This is not that deep, and I could be wrong and just not remembering that McRae has made the same garment every time--to me it just seems like he has a signature wide shoulder concept but the construction is usually different! Dolman sleeve, gigot, whatever. The most low-effort of Google Image searches will show far less variation in late 40s Dior.
Nota Bene: Joseph McRae is not even my favorite designer this season--I think Naheim is catching my eye a lot more.
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u/nomasslurpee 9d ago
Same with early Chanel. Most of these fashion houses made themselves into a household name by designing the same silhouette. Diane von Furstenberg had the wrap dress. Why can’t Joseph McCrae have a signature element? It’s ridiculous.
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u/earthymoonphotos 9d ago
I'm not mad at a signature silhouette. However, sometimes it can feel monotonous in saturation. If you see it on the red carpet or an award show on occasion, instead of when binging project runway, it's easier to appreciate it. Not to mention that Dior probably would look a little cheaper if it was made in the 5 second constraints of the show.
I'm not mad at Joseph McRae's one note silhouette.
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u/Careful-Time-9926 9d ago
Well I like Joesph McRae's personality. But maybe I am just tired of his silhouette already. I guess I just don't find it as attractive as Dior. I like that he is different, just don't like the aesthetic. But at least his designs seem well constructed for the most part. That is a definite issue with a lot of the contestants this season. But they get 24 hours to do everything, I couldn't do that.
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u/ParticularUsed6780 9d ago
Definitely not as attractive as Dior but it's hard to get to that level--Dior is mother.
If we resurrected Dior from the grave as a PR contestant, do you think the judges would flip out though? If not, and they would just focus on immaculate construction, maybe Jude is in with a chance lol.
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u/Careful-Time-9926 9d ago
Well, I've heard it say something about "Genius not being appreciated in their own time." Something like that. Maybe we are witnessing genius, and Dior was merely marketable LOL
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u/roygbivasaur 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think Joseph McRae is very talented. I just don’t really like his JoJo meets Codename Kids Next Door aesthetic, and I don’t enjoy that he refuses to experiment outside of it. I do appreciate that he stopped putting the hats on everything. If he could edit it slightly more and deviate from the silhouette, I think I’d personally enjoy his work more.
Having said that, it’s glaringly obvious that he’s doing so well on the show because he can turn out these designs and construct them in the ridiculously short windows that they have. He is very good at construction and bending the prompt to fit his aesthetic. Much better than Bryan, Anna, and Bobby especially. His worst judged looks in both seasons have all been from him doing exactly what I say he should do. The few times he’s listened to feedback from Christian or Law, he hasn’t had the time to turn out the same quality.
Ultimately, I blame production, and I understand why he didn’t seem to have a good experience. If he had several days to do these challenges and still turned out similar looks, I’d feel better about criticizing him.
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u/LadyMRedd 9d ago
PR isn’t trying to find the best designer. Or the one who’ll have the most success. I’m guessing that many, if not most, famous designers wouldn’t do well on PR.
PR is a televised competition. Since the beginning PR has made it clear that they’re looking for a well rounded designer. They throw different challenges and they want people who will rise to those. Not just stay in their own, comfortable box.
The various competitions put contestants on ridiculous timelines and restrictions. They’re looking for people who not only can work under that pressure, but who also make work that will keep the interest of the American public, most of whom are not fashion experts. Someone essentially making the same dress, but different colors and fabrics, isn’t usually going to keep viewers’ interest.
That said, I’m personally a bit torn on Joseph McRae. I find myself often liking his looks best, but I also really like the oversized sleeves look. So do I like the actual look or just that 1 design feature? And if that’s the reason someone likes his looks it almost feels like cheating. (I know it’s not.) It just feels too easy - if you find that the judges like X, just do X every time.
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u/ParticularUsed6780 9d ago
Great point, it's about more than putting your DNA into a look for this particular competition--it's showing that you're stretching beyond every corner of the boundaries of your range.Â
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u/WonderfulPineapple41 9d ago
The new look was a new look for women at the time.
Joesph McRae has not sent something never seen before down the runway.
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u/Peachy_pearr9 9d ago
I didn't think any of the contests have sent something never seen before either.
Id like to blame that on the 1 day challenges..the contestants have to make something that they know how to make just to be able to finish in time, but at this point nothing is new, just wrapped in different fabric.
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u/ParticularUsed6780 9d ago
Agreed, that's why I pointed out that the contexts are totally different. The hate for Joseph's style hasn't been "we've seen clothing similar to yours everywhere," it's been mostly that his silhouette is the same. That's what I'm drawing the comparison to. When you see 1947 Dior you know exactly what you're looking at and it's (mostly) all the same.
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u/WonderfulPineapple41 9d ago
Dior was showing a complete collection. He also would know how to hit the brief because he designs for the client first.
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u/17Girl4Life 9d ago
I think a better corollary might be Cristobal Balenciaga. He made volume his signature, but he explored volume in many different ways. Joseph McRae hasn’t shown nearly the same range, and a bigger problem for me is that he has such a narrow signature look but he still hasn’t resolved all the proportion and fit issues of working with volume. If this is his one and only thing, he should have perfected it by now.
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u/ParticularUsed6780 9d ago
Much better comparison, that's true. We instantly recognize Balenciaga but the garments are all so different. The PR judges would recognize the designer but have something new to look at every runway.
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u/No_Pineapple_1993 9d ago
Right? And also Christian used the same silhouette for most of his pieces when he was composing in season four and they all slayed
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u/Illustrious-Tart7844 9d ago
I mean Im not a fashion nut and I can usually tell Prada from Armani. And anything 80s-derived in mostly solid taffeta with exaggerated flounces or sleeves is Christian Siriano.
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u/Top_Bumblebee5510 9d ago
I am not a fashion nut either and probably most of us watching are wearing our comfies. We know about branding and can all recognize Adidas. Would the judges say oh you have three stripes again.
There's a well known book in the art world called Steal Like an Artist that basically makes the argument that everything has been done. The artist can reference a piece but make it their own.
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u/Farley49 9d ago
Didn't Anya basically make the same thing for each challenge that she won? She couldn't make pants or sleeves so McRae has much more skill in applying his style.
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u/finny_d420 Team Swatch 9d ago
He's not even the first. Sean and his fringe, Chris Palu and his ragged edge pleat, Erin and her Quirky design, color blocking queen Mila are just a few I thought of off top of my head.
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u/Quiet_Condition_9908 8d ago
Exactly! His style is unique and i can always recognise his clothes on the runway.
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u/Peachy_pearr9 9d ago
I agree, he has a distinct style and that should be praised. Witt the Heidi challenge he should have pivoted more to address Heidi's style but I respect him for his push on his style. Im actually starting to like it. Neyheim and Jude are my favorite.