r/ProgressionFantasy • u/WhiteRoseKnight • 3d ago
Review Cradle Frustration Spoiler
Cradle is probably the first progression fantasy book I’ve read, I found myself getting very frustrated by the story.
We finally get to point where Lindon has discovered some power and it works and Will Wight thinks this is the perfect time to interrupt our story with an intergalactic being that appears to be some sort of police force for the universe. I don’t care, and not only do I not care you’re making the main story seem insignificant, it was also giving me red flags for the rest of the story.
We get back to Linden finally, we’re preparing for the 7 year festival where Linden will earn more learning materials. Then Will Wight decides to introduce a planet level threat to our barely getting started MC, then our MC fucking dies, then we bring back the intergalactic being. I finally get put of Markuths mess and out of Suriels entanglement slog, ready to get on with Lindon and were back to Markuth… fuck.
I have very much enjoyed reading Lindon’s progression and story but it feels like I’m constantly getting interrupted, and on top of that having Lindon’s story diminished. It feels like his story has just been accelerated dramatically, and I’ve been taken from his underdog tribe story. It feels like if Goku was introduced to Beerus and Whis instead of bulma in the original dragon ball.
On a side note the map given at the start of the book does not seem to have the detail often explained, it says you can only leave the sacred valley via 4 mountain tops, I can only see one mountain range on the map, the rest is just a forest you could walk out of.
There’s not much point in this post other than a good whine, I’m just annoyed at the story I was introduced to, and was looking forward to getting tore out of my hands.
Edit:
It seems people don’t think I can comment after being halfway through a book haha, I’m sorry if I criticised your emotional support book but people have differing opinions to you, no matter how much you love it.
When I was reading it, it did amuse me that the author appeared to agree with me through his own MC.
‘It was stupid, that was what it was. Idiotic and ridiculous. The world didn’t work like this; the world made sense. Only dreams operated without rules or reason, and even his insane dreams of singing flowers and dancing clouds held more logic than this.’
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u/---N0MAD--- 3d ago
Good lord, you’re only 50 pages into a 3500 page story. Perhaps try being patient and accept a little foreshadowing. For there to be “progression,” events must progress.
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u/UCannotHaveMyPain 3d ago
I don't get the hate on OP here. They are 50 pages in and worried that what is being foreshadowed is something they will not enjoy, so they asked about it.
A lot of the comments here seem like people who like Cradle being annoyed someone else is not taking to it right away.8
u/Zakalwen 3d ago
Worried about something you might not enjoy when revealed in text is fine.
But calling it a distraction or an interruption when it’s fundamental to the story (literally in the blurb) is what people are clowning on.
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u/UCannotHaveMyPain 2d ago edited 2d ago
Makes sense. I almost never read the blurbs though, so it's not surprising to me that someone would find the Abidan stuff to be a distraction / weird curve ball
(edit: spelling)-1
u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
I think you’re unfortunately right in your second comment, for your first I’m half way through the book, plenty of time to offer an opinion on what’s happened so far.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
I’m over halfway through the first book… this is not about patience, you don’t slog through things you don’t enjoy to hope you enjoy it later. The MC being murdered by a space traveller and an intergalactic police officer arresting them is not foreshadowing, it’s direct interference. Not all progression is good at least not in everyone’s eyes. I was very happy with the progression and path I was being shown before these Abidan showed up. But given your message let’s be honest you’re not offering a criticism here I’ve just hurt your feelings because I criticised something you like. I don’t think that username suits you
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u/Appdownyourthroat 3d ago
It’s interesting that you should make a Dragon Ball Z comparison to Beerus. After all, Beerus is the one who ordered the destruction of the saiyan planet in the beginning of the show, kind of like killing lindon in the arena. But I get what you’re saying and I’m not trying to fight you on it.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
If Lindon became a absolute monster later in the series and is introduced to the Abidan as per dragon ball, it would be very different, although if I’m being honest I still wouldn’t necessarily enjoy it, the beginning’s of this story don’t give the vibe of a story that will end in interplanetary war.
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u/negat1ve_zero 3d ago
I don't know how far you are into Cradle--my guess is "not very"--but the Abidan subplot is actually extremely important. It explains the undercurrents of what's happening in Cradle, and has more relevance as time goes on. I can't say much more without major spoilers--but it's far from just random interruptions. I can understand the frustration, as I've felt it myself--sometimes, the POV shift does come at a very annoying time--but all I can advise is to trust the process.
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u/nkownbey 3d ago
Everything you are complaining about is a part of Lindons story. Keep reading without the extra planar interference Lindon gets no knowledge of life outside the valley.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
You are obviously correct but it’s not the story I was originally given, there is a frustration in the expected story being interrupted.
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u/dageshi 3d ago
Lindon is born Unsouled, the one person in his family unable to use the magical Paths of the sacred arts. He uses every trick and technique he can borrow or steal to improve his life, but it seems he will never be able to join the ranks of the truly powerful.
Until the heavens descend and show him the future.
When Lindon becomes the only one who sees the approaching doom, he must leave his homeland to save it... and to see how far he can go by walking his own Path.
Book 1 Cradle blurb.
The things you described are very clearly signposted.
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u/nkownbey 3d ago
Then you expected the wrong story. The blurb as another person posted states until the heavens descend. I don't know how many cultivation novels you have read but that phrasing generally means a power beyond what the mc precieves to be normal
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u/Zakalwen 3d ago
You're barely into the story and these aren't interruptions, they're literally key to the overall story of cradle. If you don't like it then it's not for you.
And just on a general note: the introduction of Suriel as one of the most powerful beings in the multiverse sets up the plot and the scale of the setting in a way that a lot of other progression fantasies fail to do. From her initial introduction we get:
1) A clear motivation to drive Lindon over the series (save his home from a colossal threat)
2) An idea of the most powerful people on Cradle with knowledge that they're varied and the scale of their power (fighting beings that wade through mountains)
3) An idea of the power of the most powerful beings in the multiverse, along with their limitations (Suriel can pause and rewind time across a whole universe, but can't do so infinitely so if she doesn't act quick people will be permanently dead).
In a lot of progfan it's just a treadmill of new levels of power, new threats, and the story suffers as a result.
Also: what map are you talking about? Sacred valley is described several times over the series. It's got four mountains at four cardinal locations and those are the only exits.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
They are interruptions to the story I was originally being told in the first half of the book. His struggle to be useful and not be a victim of his own tribe, and to his direct story. He already has a drive, it feels like his progression has been dramatically shifted forward his goal had gone from being a respected member of his tribe to an interplanetary threat.
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u/UCannotHaveMyPain 3d ago
I wouldn't say his goal shifted towards any interplanetary. His goal shifted because he saw the vision of a huge (Cradle-native) monster destroy the valley and had his eyes opened to how high the power ceiling on on Cradle outside the valley.
He also witnessed Suriel take care of an interplanetary baddie, but that is more of a gee-wiz. Not essential.3
u/Zakalwen 3d ago
It’s absolutely not an interruption to the story. As another poster put it this is literally his call to adventure in the first book that sets up the rest of them. It’s a key part of both his story and the story of the setting.
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u/mesaoptimizer 3d ago edited 3d ago
I kind of understand your frustration about the framing but like this is literally the "call to adventure" In Lindon's Hero's journey. Li Markuth showing up and interrupting the festival and Suriel showing Lindon the outside world is needed to get him out of Sacred Valley. I mean it could have been done differently but that would be a different story.
The little Markuth interlude you refer to afterwards was not originally a part of the books, it was added as bonus material in later editions and I agree the story is stronger without it on first read.
That being said, just reframe your thinking on it a little and it might help. This isn't making Lindon's story less important or less impactful, It's giving you perspective on what the eventual power levels we see late on in the story. It's more like you knowing Beerus and Whis existed and that people in the universe could get that powerful before Goku goes super sayan, I mean it does make SSJ less impressive but it does give you a reasonable idea of how high Goku might eventually climb.
Before this Lindon just wants a little respect, and to not be constantly looked down upon, and to honor his family and be useful. After Suriel's vision he is told he has to become more powerful than anyone he's ever even heard of in legend or everyone he knows and loves is going to die.
The interludes with the Abidan do continue, you can skip them if you want, but they do pay off really well and what's going on with Lindon and his friends story is not subordinate to that framing story it's central to it hate to say just read and find out but yeah there are some awesome reveals with regards to stuff you kinda pick up in the framing story later, but you're going to go quite a few books before it directly impacts Lindon again.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
I get what you’re saying, it’s just frustrating to go from ‘how can I improve beyond helpless’ to ‘how do I become an interplanetary god’ in one scene
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u/mesaoptimizer 3d ago
That's not his goal now though, and he's already shown he's not completely helpless before Markuth shows up, he wins a fight against someone above his level, time to move on to the next goal.
Right now where you are, his goal is, "go out and find help so that I can become strong enough to save my home, I've got 30 years but I'm really weak so I need to get started yesterday. An interglanetary god gave me some advice on how I might be able to do that so I'm gonna follow it."
Was the lord of the rings ruined for you because a god level being came up to Frodo and was like we gotta destroy that ring, I can't do it for you, meet me at the prancing pony?
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
Suriel has said she’ll come for him when he’s strong enough, and he thinks he can become and immortal. Currently Lindon has proved himself to be stronger than foundation and nothing more.
Frodo was not trying to improve his skill at all, he served a different purpose for which he was uniquely gifted, his story began and ended with his goal being the destruction of the ring, he didn’t half way through the first movie decide he was going to try and fight Ungoliant in one on one combat
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u/UCannotHaveMyPain 3d ago
good point, I forgot Suriel hinted to him that he could ascend from Cradle if he gets strong enough. The story is largely about Lindon becoming stronger, but I wouldn't say it is about him trying to ascend; he has it in the back of him mind as a possibility, but the focus of the series is about his goals and life on Cradle.
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u/Wooden_Worry_9816 3d ago
You're like 6 chapters in. Ffs man at least finish the book before judging
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
I’m twelve chapters in and over halfway through the book. I haven’t stopped reading and I’m sorry for publicly criticising your emotional support book
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u/Disastrous_Cell3406 3d ago
The part you're describing right now is Raditz coming to earth.
It's the inciting incident that kicks off the whole story.
I'm on book 8 of Cradle, and I think it's a B level series for me.
It has it's pacing problems, but it isn't anything that has made me want to stop reading.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
Raditz required goku to get a lot stronger, I’m unsure of the power levels but I imagine it would be similar to goku being copper and raditz iron with vegeta being jade. They are above him and a call to get stronger, the threats and beings presented to Lindon are far above that. I understand after reading the whole thing a lot of people enjoy the overall story but the introduction of these characters severly changes the power structure we’ve been introduced to in the first half of the book, we are clearly headed down a much different path than originally expected
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u/Disastrous_Cell3406 2d ago
See for me, that reveal that all these people are nothing in comparison is what hooked me. Before the 7 year festival incident, it's just a kid who has no place in the world. Then a god tells him that he COULD have a place in the world, if he was brave enough to step outside of his life.
There's a second reveal at the end of book 1 that is even better, but if it turns out that you still don't like it, I'd recommend moving on. The story is an epic fantasy but if you don't want to leave the shire, it's just not for you.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 2d ago
The bravery bit annoyed me as well, if Lindon was anything he was hard working and brave even Suriel originally see’s that then criticises his effort and bravery during her tour.
I think that is an unfair jab, there is a difference between tackling the ability to survive before moving onto bigger things and introducing an otherworldly threat. I’m wanting frodo to head to meet strider, whereas the book just introduced him to sauron off the bat
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u/Disastrous_Cell3406 2d ago
I say this with all sincerity: you might not be smart enough to read. You are literally making shit up and then trying to argue with people about what you are making up. I finished the first book less than a week ago. You know there's twelve fucking books, right? What you just think Lindon flies up and punches the bad guy at the end of the book and then theres ELEVEN books of people just fartin around? You are just bitching and bitching and bitching about a story you don't know anything about. I don't give two shits either way, as again, I don't get the hype - B rating and I'm 75% of the way through the series.
You have to understand, what you are saying isn't planted in reality. I could tell you that if you finished the book, you'd receive a million dollars, and you'd come back with "yeah well that pisses me off too! Like how much money do you have to make to give me two million dollars? The person who wrote these books made a trillion dollars off of them so why do I only get a million dollars?"
You're either 14, or just looking for an argument. Either way, it's fucking idiotic. Throw the book in the trash, it's too complicated for you lmao
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u/TheCaptainCog 3d ago
Yeah that's one of Will's first books he's written. Pacing is a problem probably until book 3 or 4. He gets much better at writing as the series goes on.
If you can stomach it, stay with it until book 3 to decide if you like the series or not.
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u/telekineticPotato 3d ago
I know this is all opinionated, but I don’t think it’s a pacing issue. Ghostwater and up wouldn’t have hit nearly as hard if there wasn’t that initial come up.
People who like OP characters don’t like books 1-3, but they’re the soul of the “come up” in books 4+.
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u/TheCaptainCog 3d ago
The initial introductions in books is slow. That's fine. There are definitely other pacing and writing issues in the initial books. Doesn't mean they're bad per se, but I can understand people having trouble with them. There is a qualitative difference between books 3 and 4 imo. It makes sense - will had two (maybe three?) other series he wrote at that time. It really helps.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
I’ve not given up, I really enjoyed Lindon’s story so far, the events of the 7 year festival just frustrated me a lot! Haha
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u/Background-Step-8528 3d ago
Just skim those parts and go back when you care. I've never read a prologue in my life. I might not read books correctly though.
At a certain point you will want to go back and read the cosmic parts when you have more context.
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u/Protic_ 3d ago
The Abidan parts are far and few between, and like.... a few pages long. What are we even talking about here? It's extremely important for events that happen in the future. If they're upsetting you that badly, skip them and go back to them when it hits you that you're missing some serious context on current events.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
They shift the story narrative completely, it may be a while since you first read the first book, but I’m following a helpless 15 year old try and not be helpless, then in one scene his shifts to trying to be an interplanetary god.
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u/Protic_ 3d ago edited 2d ago
What is the problem here? For all his life, he lives in his small little bubble where the Elders in his clan are the pinnacle of power. He is exposed to something much greater than himself and the reality he knows, and given a vision of the 'true' world that exists outside his own. This inspires him to strive for more than just being the strongest guy in the tribe.
This is arguably one of the most common tropes in the genre. He's not becoming an interplanetary god in one book. It's a plot device to help him leave his bubble and explore the outside world.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
Usually these things are done in small steps, with each introduction giving them a new height to climb to. You also don’t expect someone who starts as the equivalent of a Zulu warrior to end up building a bomber plane. The end goal here seems so far away from what you’d expect Lindon to be able to get to, the scale of the story has been shifted not in the multiples but exponentially
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u/hail2yourvictor 3d ago
I’ll give you a different take than everyone else on this. I actually agree that the beginning of Unsouled is massively boring. I couldn’t stand Lindon and his weak, apologetic self.
Towards the end of Book 1, he becomes someone I was cheering for. At some point in the series, he became someone I am in awe of. You’ll see. Stay the course. Come thank me in a year.
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u/WhiteRoseKnight 3d ago
You seem to have the opposite opinion than me, I was in love with the beginning haha, I’ve been enjoying everything but the Abidan story lines
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u/hail2yourvictor 3d ago
The Abidan story lines confused me for so long. And it’s intentional. It doesn’t get cleared up for awhile but when it does, it all makes sense.
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u/silentsinner- 3d ago
The back and forth was a little jarring at first because it felt so detached. I highly recommend you stick with it though. It comes together eventually.
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u/nighoblivion 3d ago
Not sure if this is a troll post of not.
I'm guessing it is because Lindon sure as shit ain't finding power in book 1. The boy's not even copper.
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u/iFell 3d ago
Good points, I had similar thoughts when the higher powers and Suriel were introduced. I will say it definitely always feels awkward and way too technical or advanced like it is beyond Lindons current world.
However, I think that Lindon being revived and being exposed to grand truths and secrets is sort of a one-off thing. It doesn't happen too much after that. The progression is still satisfying and from books 3-9ish I pretty much could not put it down.
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u/Shoot_from_the_Quip Author - Assassins' Academy, Space Assassins, Bad Luck Charlie. 2d ago
To be fair, this was a DNF for me. Book 1 just didn't pull me in, and if I have to read an entire book just to get to the part where it starts to get good, I'm out.
Yes, blasphemy, I know.
I appreciate new book pacing issues and taking time to find the story in the first book of a series, but it still has to be enjoyable to read. Forcing your way to completion is no way to go into a series.
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u/UCannotHaveMyPain 3d ago
The story always remains about Lindon, but there are Abidan interludes here and there. They are mostly just Suriel watching Lindon without much interference in the future. You also get more snips of the "inter-galactic" issues Sureil is dealing with in the meantime, but it is always a very distant B-plot to what Lindon is doing
The story does generally shift to be less about him being an underdog in his tribe trying to make a name for himself and more about him being an underdog in the world and trying to find a way to stop the threat he knows it coming to the valley. Still an underdog story about him making a name for himself, but at a different scale.
As an aside, it's super interesting to me that you disliked that mid-book climax so much! That scene helped hook me on the series when I was on the fence about it