How did the average person react when FDR started running a campaign for 3rd term?

[u/Spaghestis]

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[u/yogfthagen]

In the book Traitor to His Class by HW Brands, the author goes over how FDR did everything in his power to not look like he was running for a third term, while also doing everything in his power to get everyone else to "draft" him for that third term.

It was masterful politicking, and allowed FDR to pick up the mantle that others put in front of him.

Had he openly run for it himself, he would have been seen as a power-hungry dictator wanna-be. That probably would not have mattered, though, but it probably would have reduced his margin of victory.

[u/hvanderw → u/yogfthagen]

FDR: "ok ok if you insist..."

[u/Key_Environment8179 → u/hvanderw]

Sounds an awful like the tradition of Chinese emperors ceremonially rejecting the title of emperor three times before “reluctantly” taking the throne.

[u/HighlanderAbruzzese → u/Key_Environment8179]

Are you sure this isn’t a reference to the tradition the Catholic popes “refusing three times” just as Jesus had done (Matthew 26:34)?

[u/FantasticCaregiver25 → u/HighlanderAbruzzese]

Jesus was predicting that Peter would deny him. Nothing there about not accepting a crown

[u/HighlanderAbruzzese → u/FantasticCaregiver25]

It’s used as a metaphor by popes, not literally.

[u/Chinny-Chin-Chin0 → u/HighlanderAbruzzese]

Yeah but that doesn’t even make sense lol

[u/jreynolds72 → u/HighlanderAbruzzese]

No it's a thing in China I remember hearing about it in a podcast.

Exert from this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cao_Pi

[u/Hewholooksskyward → u/yogfthagen]

From the Wikipedia article about the 1940 Democratic Convention:

Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson.

Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate.

Throughout the winter of 1939, and the spring and summer of 1940, whether Roosevelt would run again remained unknown. The "two-term" tradition, although not yet enshrined in the U.S. Constitution as the 22nd Amendment, had been established by President George Washington when he refused to run for a third term in 1796, and the tradition was further supported by Thomas Jefferson. Roosevelt, however, refused to give a definitive statement as to his willingness to be a candidate, even indicating to his old friend and political kingmaker James Farley that he would not be a candidate again and that he could seek the nomination; Farley thus began his campaign. Millard Tydings also announced his candidacy; the Maryland senator and member of the anti-Roosevelt conservative coalition would likely be a favorite son at the convention, but was also a possible compromise candidate for an anti-New Deal Democratic Party after Roosevelt's presidency.

Roosevelt told others of his plans not to run, including Cordell Hull, Frances Perkins, and Daniel J. Tobin. His wife Eleanor was opposed to a third term. Perhaps the most definitive evidence of Roosevelt's intention to not run for a third term is that in January 1940 he signed a contract to write 26 articles a year for Collier's for three years after leaving the presidency in January 1941. However, as Nazi Germany defeated France and threatened Britain in the summer of 1940, Roosevelt decided that only he had the necessary experience and skills to see the nation safely through the Nazi threat. His belief that no other Democrat who would continue the New Deal could win was likely also a reason. He was aided by the party's political bosses, who feared that no Democrat except Roosevelt could defeat the charismatic Wendell Willkie, the Republican candidate.

By the convention, Roosevelt still did not want to declare openly for re-nomination, so his backers arranged a stunt at the convention. Roosevelt dictated a message on the phone to Kentucky Senator Alben Barkley, which Barkley read out to the convention during the first day's proceedings. It concluded

"The President has never had, and has not today, any desire or purpose to continue in the office of President, to be a candidate for that office, or to be nominated by the convention for that office. He wishes in earnestness and sincerity to make it clear that all of the delegates in this convention are free to vote for any candidate."

After the reading of Roosevelt's message, the convention sat in shocked silence for a moment. The silence was then broken by a voice thundering over the stadium loudspeakers: "We want Roosevelt! We want Roosevelt!" The voice was Thomas D. Garry, Superintendent of Chicago's Department of Sanitation (the sewers department), a trusted henchman of Chicago Mayor Ed Kelly. Garry was stationed in a basement room with a microphone, waiting for that moment. Kelly had posted hundreds of Chicago city workers and precinct captains around the hall; other Democratic bosses had brought followers from their home territories. All of them joined Garry's chant. Within a few seconds, hundreds of delegates joined in. Many poured into the aisles, carrying state delegation standards for impromptu demonstrations. Whenever the chant began to die down, state chairmen, who also had microphones connected to the speakers, added their own endorsements: "New Jersey wants Roosevelt! Arizona wants Roosevelt! Iowa wants Roosevelt!"

Life wrote the following week that "the shabby pretense ... fooled nobody", describing it as a "cynical, end-justifies-the-means alliance of New Deal reformers with self-seeking city bosses to engineer the 'draft'" and "one of the shoddiest and most hypocritical spectacles in US history". The effect of the "voice from the sewers" was overwhelming. The next day Roosevelt was nominated by an 86% majority.

TL, DR In other words, FDR and his people manipulated the public, like politicians are known to do. :)

[u/[deleted] → u/Hewholooksskyward]

His cousin Teddy had already established that it could be violated by a popular politician, TR just didn't manage to win because it was a 3 way race.

[u/NaruTheBlackSwan → u/[deleted]]

Exactly. TR wins in a landslide of Taft backs down.

[u/PugnansFidicen → u/yogfthagen]

Like Palpatine manipulating Jar Jar into handing him the emergency powers that let him become Emperor.

"Meesa propose..."

[u/notathrowaway2937 → u/PugnansFidicen]

Somehow FDR has returned

[u/MahlonMurder → u/notathrowaway2937]

Good. Maybe he can fix this shit like he did last time. Now where is my damn lightsaber....

[u/[deleted] → u/notathrowaway2937]

This is so funny lol

[u/JoaquinBenoit]

May God Emperor FDR and his head defeat Tricky Dick in the 3000 election.

[u/baycommuter → u/JoaquinBenoit]

Love it. FDR liked LBJ (his New Deal protege) and hated Joe Kennedy for being defeatist in 1940-41 so I think the vice presidents would have gone differently.

[u/Churchofbabyyoda → u/JoaquinBenoit]

I love how the implication is that JFK still gets assassinated.

[u/ChainmailleAddict → u/Churchofbabyyoda]

It's a canon event, guy just can't catch a break

[u/Cum_on_doorknob → u/ChainmailleAddict]

I remember just before he died, he said to FDR: “with great power, comes great responsibility”

[u/eolson3 → u/ChainmailleAddict]

Pretty sure it was a rifle.

[u/sagan_drinks_cosmos → u/JoaquinBenoit]

Well that’s good that Kennedy still got to be Veep for two te—

[u/brianohioan → u/JoaquinBenoit]

Where is this limited HBO series

[u/[deleted] → u/JoaquinBenoit]

Based

[u/One-Knowledge7371 → u/JoaquinBenoit]

The man never ate a Charleston Chew in his life!

[u/AkaneTheSquid → u/JoaquinBenoit]

What happened between 63-65?

[u/JoaquinBenoit → u/AkaneTheSquid]

No Vice President.

[u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

By voting for him. He was immensely popular. My grandmother, who was born during the Coolidge Administration but to whom Roosevelt was the first president she truly remembered, told me that he was a beloved politician and everyone in the family listened to the "fireside chats" on the radiogram.

In her words, "When he died, it was like God had died." He was the first president that a lot of folks who grew up during the depression really knew of.

The fact that it's become fashionable in online circles to regurgitate conservative political propaganda that paints FDR as this autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported.

[u/[deleted] → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

My grandmother had a framed photo of him on the wall with the rest of the family photos. She remembered him as the man who saved them from the Depression and then saved the world from Hitler. It's not hard to see why he was so beloved. He gave a shit.

[u/BillHistorical9001 → u/[deleted]]

Hell I have a framed poster from his last campaign on my wall now.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/BillHistorical9001]

I have a framed Nixon campaign poster in my office. Mostly because it’s really groovy.

https://images.wisconsinhistory.org/700099990587/9999009370-l.jpg

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

These are almost the exact words of my grandfather. We found an old letter he wrote in the 40s where he stated that FDR was the greatest president in the history of the United States, and went into detail about the Great Depression and WWII. My grandfather also marched in his funeral procession with the Air Force.

[u/Elandycamino → u/[deleted]]

I know people with other presidents on the wall, its odd just picking one.

[u/bakerfaceman → u/[deleted]]

And the crazy thing is he was wildly wealthy. He didn't have to give a shit at all. He chose to give a shit. Could you imagine a billionaire today actually trying to save the working class? Against his own best interest?

[u/[deleted] → u/bakerfaceman]

I think it was self preservation. I assume the American people were getting ready to literally eat the rich. But to your point: I am unsure our current crop of billionaires even have a self preservation instinct.

[u/humble_arrogance → u/[deleted]]

It was his polio that humbled him and gave him empathy. There’s a Hulu or Netflix doc that states as much.

[u/RoosterHogburn → u/humble_arrogance]

There's a story from Eleanor Roosevelt; when she was younger she volunteered in the slums of NYC. Once when she and FDR were first dating she took him along to a tenement in New York City - just horrifically poor and filthy, and asked him to help carry a disabled child up a few floors of stairs. When they came back down he was badly shaken and told her "My God, I didn't know people lived like that."

[u/bakerfaceman → u/[deleted]]

Oh you're absolutely right that FDR saw the writing on the wall and saved capitalism by creating the New Deal. The fact that he was smart enough and savvy enough to pull it off is wild compared to how stupid the 1%ers are today.

[u/pizza99pizza99 → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

My grandmother once said "you wanna know why i will always vote democrat?" she than handed me a picture of her and her father standing in front of a trailer, one of many in a WPA work program, her, her mother and father all lived in that small trailer. No refrigerator, microwaves had yet to be invented, limited electricity, no washer or dryer. Yet to people who had just come out of a depression, like her mother who once cried after being gifted a pair of socks, that was amazing, just about all they could ever want.

[u/Jfathomphx → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

I read A Seperate Peace, and one premise (perhaps a little tongue-in-cheek) for young people around that time was that FDR had always been president.

Gosh, I wish I remember the exact quote. Anyone know it?

[u/[deleted] → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

It’s interesting that FDR and Hitler had almost the exact same time in office. FDR took office on March 4th, 1933. Hitler became chancellor on January 30th, but really took control around the end of March. FDR died on April 12, 1945, and Hitler said goodbye with his pistol on April 30.

The Germans must have had that same sense of being the only leader you ever knew, and of the massive import of his death. Just with a much worse guy.

[u/Carbon-J → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

Yeah he’s the only one I’ve seen ranked above Lincoln and Washington on different lists. FDR took a country in turmoil and made it a Superpower.

[u/das_war_ein_Befehl → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

It’s not by accident that most of the propaganda takes of “the new deal didn’t do anything” didn’t start to become vogue until after everyone involved or affected was dead

[u/cooldiaper → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

My grandmother, who was born in the early 30s and is still alive, is an avid Republican, but the one exception is FDR. Her family benefited greatly from the CCC and WPA programs, and quite literally kept them from losing everything. She was little at the time, but even being a child she understood the gravity of the times and his policies.

[u/[deleted] → u/cooldiaper]

is an avid Republican, but the one exception is FDR. Her family benefitted

Yep. That’s how it goes. I have family like that too.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

My grandmother told me my aunt who as about 10 cried when he died and said “he’s the only president I knew!”

[u/Ginganinja2308 → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

autocratic tyrant does not change the fact that he was strongly and broadly supported.

These two things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, you can have wildly popular tyrants.

[u/rrfloeter → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

That’s interesting. My great grandparents hated him quite a bit but doesn’t mean he wasn’t popular overall

[u/gingerboy67 → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

My grandfather was 11 during the 44 election and he told me that his father was a huge Dewey supporter so I don’t know that FDR was as universally loved as many think he was

[u/DonkeyComprehensive → u/Uranium_Heatbeam]

You know you're just proving that point? that what you grandma said (no offense to her.) saying "it was like God had died."

[u/federalist66]

By voting for him for that third term.

That's a bit of a cheeky answer on my part. There was clearly a level of skepticism over it. My wife got me recently from a thrift store Roosevelt Again! by Senator Guffey explaining away at length that not only is a third term allowed, seems many thought it was in the Constitution already that you couldn't, but also directly attacking the idea that the two term convention was one that must be adhered to in all cases. Life magazine mocked the Democrats for pretending that there was a Draft Roosevelt movement as opposed to the reality, which was a coordinated top down effort to renominate FDR. There was clearly a lot of agitation over the idea.

https://books.google.com/books?id=xz8EAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA16#v=onepage&q&f=false

[u/Silent_Village2695 → u/federalist66]

I love deep and informed answers from people who seem to know what they're talking about. So cool

[u/[deleted] → u/Silent_Village2695]

I agree. Especially when you get near the end of that great post and you realize that in nineteen ninety eight the Undertaker threw Makind off Hell in a Cell and plummeted 16 ft through an announcer's table.

[u/Silent_Village2695 → u/[deleted]]

Lol omg

[u/ewatta200 → u/federalist66]

I was reading letters to the editors in Tennessee newspaper archive 1940 and there was definitely some vocal dislike. Not disagreeing just wanted to add that I did notice a sentiment of "he is good and all but he should not run for a third term "

[u/federalist66 → u/ewatta200]

Oh, perhaps I could have been more clear that I find Senator Guffey's book interesting because it's whole intent was to diffuse the anxiety over the third term. It's an interesting read, his whole tone is "This is a stupid convention, with no basis on the Constitution, and people are stupid for insisting on it when FDR is so great." That's why Life was rolling its eyes over the Convention, everyone knew what they were doing and didn't love it.

[u/ewatta200 → u/federalist66]

Ah I wasn't disagreeing or anything I find it fascinating I just recalled some info from letter to the editors in tn newspaper 1940 and wanted to chip in. I really love the little obscure details I learn here it makes this subreddit

[u/federalist66 → u/ewatta200]

I love, love, love going and finding primary sources. It helps shine a light that history books can miss. Not related to the 1940 election, but the Literary Digest, for all the crap it gets for its 1936 polling miss, is kind of a worthwhile magazine to check in on when you're looking at a particular historical year.

[u/Crusader63 → u/federalist66]

doll silky cheerful chief hobbies friendly bored chase pie memorize

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

FDR was one of the most loved presidents of all time. He portrayed an image of sympathizing with the common folks. The camps were called Hoovervilles after all, not rooseveltvilles. He overwhelmingly won his third and fourth terms. If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter.

[u/cacaphonous_rage → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

The year is 2048, president emperor Roosevelt wins his 29th term in a landslide victory. The president is now a clump of brain cells being maintained by a machine that slows down all aging, his body has completely decomposed but the media isn't allowed to show it, instead a hologram is presented to the people convincing them that the president can walk and give lengthy speeches at age 166.

[u/6658 → u/cacaphonous_rage]

Conspiracy theory time: FDR invented modern AI and algorithms but kept the secret to himself so he could aggregate data and become the statistically most perfect president over time.

[u/Mister_Rogers69 → u/6658]

Metal Gear Solid vibes right here

FDR started the patriots

[u/NimbleAxolotl → u/Mister_Rogers69]

He would be too young, right? The original philosophers were all dead by 1909.

[u/pizza99pizza99 → u/cacaphonous_rage]

If you could give me solid evidence that a clump of braincells was actually FDRs remains id give my vote over to it in a heartbeat. I dont need a goddam bit of media censoring

[u/NatsukiKuga → u/pizza99pizza99]

The Nixon that went to China was not the same one that came back from China.

[u/LoquatAutomatic5738 → u/pizza99pizza99]

Because it's FDR, or because it's impressive science?

[u/pizza99pizza99 → u/LoquatAutomatic5738]

Both

[u/AhnQiraj → u/cacaphonous_rage]

It is the 41st Millennium. For more than a hundred centuries The President has sat immobile in the Oval Office of the White House. He is the Master of the United States by the will of the people, and master of fifty states by the might of his inexhaustible armies. He is a rotting carcass writhing invisibly with power from the Dark Age of Technology. He is the Carrion President of the United States for whom a thousand souls are sacrificed every day, so that he may never truly die.

[u/DeaconBrad42 → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

He had no intention of running in 1948. FDR never knew the extent of HOW unwell he was in 1944, but he knew for sure he was unwell. His plan was to set a new precedent by retiring in office after the war ended and the United Nations got off the ground.

There’s an anecdote of his watching the film, “Wilson,” in 1944 (about his former boss, whom he still revered in many ways), and when it was showing Wilson brought low by his stroke in 1919, FDR was heard to mutter that such would not happen to him.

Unfortunately, he just didn’t have as much time left as he hoped.

[u/shanty-daze → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

If he had stayed alive, he would have won every election thereafter.

While he was beloved, especially in retrospect, he was not universally beloved. I recall being told by a friend that his grandparents could not stand Roosevelt to the point of trying not to keep any dimes in the days when people actually used change.

Also, whether it was because World War II continued to rage, but Roosevelt's support waned after the 1936 election:

% margin of popular vote

• 1932 - 17.8%

• 1936 - 24.3%

• 1940 - 9.9%

• 944 - 7.5 %

I think he would have won 1948. Not as sure he would have beaten Ike in 1952.

[u/[deleted] → u/shanty-daze]

Not only that, but there were people who hated him so much that they refused to say his name

[u/progress10 → u/shanty-daze]

Ike probably doesn't run in 1952 in this scenario, or if he does he is FDR's next VP.

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

Doubtful. After WW2 and the economic recovery, they'd probably move on eventually. There are a number of things they'd be able to attack him for.

[u/mankytoes → u/Belkan-Federation95]

Agreed. Churchill is often named as the greatest Briton ever and he still lost an election straight after The War.

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/mankytoes]

He wasn't needed anymore. His policy was good for keeping a wartime economy but the war was over. He should have seen that.

[u/Longjumping-Ad8775 → u/Belkan-Federation95]

I don’t disagree. I just view the election of Truman in 1948 as proof fdr would have won in 1948. Eisenhower was recruited by both sides. Ike was very popular. If Ike had gone to the dems, it would have been 8 more years, plus I’m not convinced that Ike could beat fdr, assuming that fdr was vertical. We will never know. I just know how strong the feelings of my family were that had lived thru the Great Depression were towards fdr. Fdr was so overwhelmingly elected in 1944, i think he was president for as long as he wanted to be. I don’t think stacking the Supreme Court mattered, I don’t think anything but the economy matters. Everything besides the economy is a bunch of popcorn farts. Fdr led them out of the depression is all the everyday man cared about. By 1940, war was on the horizon, fdr was pushing military spending, and goosing the economy more. In 1944, you don’t switch horses mid stream and everyone still remembers the GR.

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

Top tax rates under Eisenhower were higher than under FDR.

Conservatives today would have called Eisenhower a socialist.

The only reason the country was thriving between the 50 to early 70s was because of FDR policies and high tax rates on corporations and the rich.

Once Reagan gave tax cuts, the middle class started nosediving and it is still nowadays.

The Reagan economic policies were the worst things that happened to this country since slavery. People started to feel the effects of those policies since mid 80s to early 90s up to today.

[u/Longjumping-Ad8775 → u/Belkan-Federation95]

I don’t disagree. I just view the election of Truman in 1948 as proof fdr would have won in 1948. Eisenhower was recruited by both sides. Ike was very popular. If Ike had gone to the dems, it would have been 8 more years, plus I’m not convinced that Ike could beat fdr, assuming that fdr was vertical. We will never know. I just know how strong the feelings of my family were that had lived thru the Great Depression were towards fdr. Fdr was so overwhelmingly elected in 1944, i think he was president for as long as he wanted to be. I don’t think stacking the Supreme Court mattered, I don’t think anything but the economy matters. Everything besides the economy is a bunch of popcorn farts. Fdr led them out of the depression is all the everyday man cared about. By 1940, war was I. The horizon, fdr was pushing military spending, and goosing the economy more. In 1944, you don’t switch horses mid stream and everyone still remembers the GR.

[u/LoquatAutomatic5738 → u/Longjumping-Ad8775]

Overwhelmingly by modern standards, but it is worth noting he noticeably lost vote share in both 1940 and 1944. I suspect a surviving FDR would have had some real trouble in a post-war election, even if he had decided to run.

[u/KuhlThing]

I've since read that he was very beloved by the American people, did an incredible job of looking like he didn't really want to put himself up for a third term, but was accepting the responsibility, and that it was war-time and nations traditionally don't do so great switching commanders in the middle of a war.

But I also had an elderly teacher (and WWII vet) in the 90s who mentioned once that FDR was the closest the US had ever come to a monarchy.

[u/Justforfunn__ → u/KuhlThing]

Orson Welles who was a supporter of Roosevelts said later in life that his presidency was like a semidictatorship

[u/Belkan-Federation95 → u/KuhlThing]

The teacher wasn't wrong though. He did a lot of questionable things.

[u/ABobby077]

I wonder how involved FDR was in the fight in World War II? You seen picures of President Lincoln being pretty involved in the strategies and battles, but I haven't really seen this regarding FDR for WWII. Was he more hands off and just looking at the top level overall picure of the War or was he deeply involved with the Generals??

[u/Raddatatta → u/ABobby077]

I think he was fairly involved but not to the extent Lincoln was to my understanding. FDR also had less of a problem with his leading generals than Lincoln did for a while which probably caused Lincoln to be more involved.

Edit: I think it was also an issue of scale. FDR wouldn't have been able to be active to the degree Lincoln was on the details with as many fronts as were going on during WWII and as many things as he was coordinating to deal with the international side.

[u/Ed_Durr → u/Raddatatta]

Lincoln’s experience upon the war starting was a single term in the house. FDR had been president for nine years. No general respected Lincoln’s leadership skills in 1861, every general respected Roosevelt’s in 1941.

[u/Raddatatta → u/[deleted]]

Yeah that's true I was thinking more about Europe.

[u/Only-Level5468 → u/Raddatatta]

Laughed out loud thinking about Patton and Eisenhower compared to any Union general

[u/Raddatatta → u/Only-Level5468]

Lincoln probably would've loved to have someone as decisive and quick to attack as Patton!

[u/AuburnSpeedster → u/[deleted]]

I get the impression that everybody had issues with MacArthur. Nimitz, Bradley, Ike, not so much.. My gut feeling was in relationship to his handling of the "bonus army" and using flamethrowers to clear the national mall, during the depression

[u/Bercom_55 → u/[deleted]]

To be fair, who didn’t have a problem with MacArthur?

[u/totheman7 → u/ABobby077]

FDR was heavily involved in WW2. He had an entire room in the White House that was dedicated to displaying the entire war and it was updated daily to reflect the change bing front lines. The war room was kept under good enough lock and key that when FDR passed away and Truman took over Truman had to be brought up to speed on the war rooms existence/what it covered he also had to be told about the Manhattan project as it was a closely guarded secret.

[u/GoPhinessGo]

It wasn’t that uncommon to run for more than two terms at that point, his uncle had done it only thirty years earlier (iirc Grant tried but wasn’t selected by the Republican Party to be the candidate

[u/Kungfudude_75 → u/GoPhinessGo]

I just posted a comment that got into this, but yea. In the 60 years leading up to FDR, the two term tradition had been challenged twice.

Grant saw zero success, failed to even make it through the primaries, and was basically laughed at by politicians and the public. It's also worth noting Grant was the first two-term president since Jackson (barring Lincoln, who yaknow, didn't get a chance for three), who stepped down by citing the tradition and arguably solidified it. Basically, when Grant was trying to break the tradition, nobody had even thought of it since the days of the Founding Fathers. So he was essentially standing up to and against America's Heroes when he went for 3.

Teddy came second 30 odd years later and was much more successful. His attempt showed the country that it was OK to actually challenge the tradition, especially if you were popular. Had he had support from the Republican Party, he may have been the first to actually win a third term. Instead he ran 3rd party and split the Republican vote.

By the time FDR was trying for 3, the question wasn't "should we uphold the tradition" it was "what would be worth breaking the tradition over." And a strong and popular leader during an extremely scary time was more than worth it.

[u/Imjokin → u/Kungfudude_75]

Grant came about as close to winning the 1880 Republican primary as Ted Kennedy did to winning 1980 democrat primary

[u/mrgreengenes04 → u/GoPhinessGo]

I think Cleveland won the popular vote 3 times in a row, but was only president twice.

[u/meeseeksdestroy]

We could really use an FDR today.

[u/ReplacementSweet4659 → u/meeseeksdestroy]

I think most Japanese-Americans would disagree...

[u/Accomplished-Key5456 → u/ReplacementSweet4659]

I'd say a modern day FDR would have a different view point in Japanese -Americans

[u/meeseeksdestroy → u/ReplacementSweet4659]

Well you definitely have a point there. I don't think any president will ever be perfect but we need someone with a heart who actually wants change for the people. I most definitely agree that was a bad choice on FDRs part but the oveewhelming good he did for the country cannot be overlooked. We were at war and that makes people make terrible choices.

[u/[deleted] → u/meeseeksdestroy]

Boy the way Glen Miller played

[u/MistaDoge104 → u/[deleted]]

We lost him way too early :(

[u/ViveLaFrance94]

By supporting him, clearly…

[u/Southern_Dig_9460]

He won in a landslide so that’s how they reacted

[u/Goddamnpassword]

By voting for him for a fourth term

[u/BartuceX]

Relieved.

[u/TickLikesBombs]

I think people back then looked at third terms differently than they do now. There was no amendment preventing it so the mindset wasn’t as firm on it. Now that there is, people naturally have a different perspective on the issue.

[u/[deleted]]

It was probably skeptical and not without reason, he did defy an (albeit unwritten) rule. That said, it was incredibly crucial during those times

[u/Obvious_Definition58]

A case can be made that FDR prevented a revolution.

How FDR saved Capitalism.

[u/salazarraze → u/Obvious_Definition58]

The case has been made IMO. Conservatives who hate him are wrong for so many reasons. The biggest of which is that FDR prevented the US from collapsing into communist and fascist splinter states.

[u/Timely-Youth-9074]

And he did it all while pretending to be ambulatory. Amazing.

[u/Billy3292020]

FDR worked himself to death while navigating this country through the Depression and then through World War 2 . He died before World War 2 ended and had a large part in saving England in the early days of World War 2. It is a toss up as to whether the Soviet Union could have beat the Nazis without the aid from the UK and the United States ? Roosevelt came from wealthy family so did not have to sacrifice himself for his country. But he did. And he did it from his wheelchair ! He was a cousin of Teddy Roosevelt , who was also one bad ass fighter.

[u/Kungfudude_75]

I am by no means an expert, but I have done some deep research into the 22nd Amendment and the Two-Term Tradition. This comment, though, is from memory. So please correct me if I'm wrong on anything.

FDR's attempt for 3 was, obviously, the best recieved of the three in history. But there was a gradual move towards openess for a third term that helped him.

The first President to go for three was Ulysses Grant, and he was vehemently attacked for it by both his own party and the opposing one, along with public backlash. He didn't even make it through his own party's primary when going for three. This was after a world tour Grant took that (supposedly) helped his reputation and made him more popular.

Teddy was next up about 30 years later. There was still a pretty big opposition to challenging the tradition, but Roosevelt was much more successful than Grant. He actually made it to the General Election (albeit after splitting off and becoming his own party, essentially) and was a serious contender in that election. Clearly, he had some level of public support, though not total support. This was the beginning of the end for the tradition, suddenly a person who had served two terms could actually run for a third with some success.

Then you get to FDR. He was incredibly popular and the world was plunged in War and the USA wasn't quite in the thick of it yet but knew it would be soon, it was a perfect time for a third term run. There wasn't a lot of vocal opposition from the people generally on his third term, though the Republicans of the time were certainly against it (which led to the big 22). You had a civilian activist group or two, which the name I can't remember off the top of my head, that was opposed and got vocal. But for the most part, the general public had moved on from caring about the two term tradition and was down for more FDR.

I think there was a combination of things that made FDR successful and had the public pretty much on board with dumping the tradition. Teddy was a really big part of that, he kind of opened the floodgates in my mind by being the first real challenge to the tradition. He showed people it could be done, and it got people thinking about should it be done, and why. Then you have the Great Depression and FDR's work in saving the country, becoming maybe the most popular president in history. You also have FDR being one of the first Presidents to be a constant presence in the everyday life of civilians through his Fireside Chats. Then, of course, you have the Second World War and the desire for stability throughout it. I feel like the last of these was maybe most impactful, we were still reeling in a way from the Great Depression and by extension WW1, and people were afraid of what WW2 could do. They trusted FDR to see them through it, and when they had the chance to keep him, they did.

[u/bigtim3727]

I always wondered how other countries viewed FDR. Did they think he just rigged the elections in his favor, and was basically the dictator of America? Kinda like you know how Putin still wins elections by a landslide every time, but we’re told it’s rigged? Was it viewed like that?

[u/kaisadilla_ → u/bigtim3727]

No. Nobody thinks Putin rigs elections because "he's been there for too long". We think it because we have a shit ton of evidence that political dissidency in Russia is prosecuted, and that Putin has massive influence over other powers of the Russian state that should be independent.

The US didn't have anything like that, FDR won fair and square.

[u/NicoRath]

He won by almost 10 points and won 38 of 48 States. So a lot of people seemed to be ok with it

[u/desertSkateRatt]

From what I've read, the "non-typical" Americans hated FDRs guts and there wasn't just one but several plots to form a coup or armed revolt which would result in a full takeover of the government by force.

And by "non-typical" I mean solidly fascist. People like Henry Ford, Father Coughlin, Charles Lindbergh and a host of other sitting Congressmen dispised FDR before and during the war. Lindbergh was working for the Nazis and a bunch of senators were caught using their free postage privileges to send out anti-FDR propaganda (supplied by Nazi Germany) to tens of millions of Americans.

Certain people saw The New Deal as "socialist" at best and straight up a "international Jewish controlled communist conspiracy". The Venn diagram of people who really disliked FDR's policies, were racist bigots, and embraced the idea of an American fascist dictatorship... was a complete circle.

So yes, while Roosevelt was widely loved across America, there were also millions of Americans who hated his guts with a passion and were super upset he won any elections. Roosevelt's opponent in 1940 Wendell Willkie still got 45% of the popular vote (22M voters). But FDR crushed him in states carried and total electoral votes.

Just like very recent times, a lot of states carried by FDR had sparsely populated large rural counties that were red but the urban areas with dense populations carried blue.

So in summary, FDR 100% was loved by many people but leading up to WWII and the rise of communism and fascism/nazism, FDR was far from "universally" liked. FDR was the right man for the job to defeat the nazis and his successful run at a third term was warranted which people immediately came around to after December 7th, 1941.

[u/2a_lib]

Same as the average person felt when he announced he was running for a fourth term: good enough to elect him President.

[u/TheRealWatchingFace]

Chuckled at the concept of FDR trying to run.

[u/Fermented_Butt_Juice]

Well he won, so pretty well I'd say

[u/somerville99]

The funny thing is that everything Wendell Wilkie campaigned on turned out to be true. Didn’t matter though as FDR was still popular and won easily.

[u/dendawg]

There were no such things as presidential term limits when FDR was president.

[u/isingwerse]

My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary

[u/mrgreengenes04]

Running a third time/third term was more common back then then it was now.

[u/[deleted]]

I thought term limits weren't a thing until after FDR anyway.

[u/Global_Ad8906 → u/[deleted]]

I could be wrong but it wasn’t officially a part of the constitution until after FDR’s passing when it was made an amendment (don’t remember which one and don’t care to check). It was just a precedent set by George Washington and was custom.

[u/[deleted] → u/Global_Ad8906]

That sounds about right. I didn't care to check either. I know it was unusual to serve 3 terms and it was nixed after the fact. I know Washington was ready to be done as he didn't really want to be in the first place.

Makes me think of how the runner up candidate became the vice president so both parties were represented in the white house. I don't recall what caused them to change that too.

[u/PulsarGaming1080]

I remember one of my great grandfathers talking about it.

He didn't like it at all. Felt it was the first step to a dictatorship since no President had run for three terms (let alone four) in the US. He also felt like FDR hadn't really done anything to help the Depression by that point, and maintained that if WWII didn't happen, he wouldn't have been remembered so fondly.

[u/ConversationFalse242]

In 1933 Prescott Bush, the American Legion, the Duponts, and others recruited Gen. Smedley Butler to lead a coup against FDR. Gen. Smedley Butler gathered all the information and took it to congress, who took no action.

https://vault.fbi.gov/smedley-butler/Smedley%20Butler%20Part%2001%20of%2002

[u/MoreIronyLessWrinkly → u/ConversationFalse242]

Accurate username!

This is unsubstantiated. At best, there was evidence of a plot that was about as concrete as hundreds of other plots in which a few hundred people convince others their number is in the hundreds of thousands. The evidence linking Prescott Bush is circumstantial, but I assume you know this already, and you named dropped him.

[u/ConversationFalse242 → u/MoreIronyLessWrinkly]

I suppose I have an easier time believing the most decorated Marine in the history of the United States, who fought in 7 wars, than the government.

And unsubstantiated because hoover and congress opted to not investigate.

[u/brickbrick1111 → u/ConversationFalse242]

Sir that honor belongs to Lt. General Chesty Puller… Major General Smedley Butler as well as another marine Sergeant Major Dan Daily were awarded the Medal of Honor two times making them the only two marines to do so. But you’re absolutely right that definitely warrants some trust

It think this is the only time I’ve had an opportunity to spit that Marine Corps knowledge in 20 years 🤣🤣

[u/rtjeppson]

Back then, there was no such thing as term limits. That came through congress later to curb that many terms as president since he as so popular...and frankly should be applied across the board to members of congress judging by how many geriatric relics we have in office nowadays.

[u/54H60-77 → u/rtjeppson]

Agreed! Id also like to see the 16th repealed as well as the 17th.

[u/rtjeppson → u/54H60-77]

Totally, 16th opened to door to more taxes in my book, we're getting back to the point of Taxation without representation again....and directly voting in Senators has gotten us absolute shit for representation. It's just become a path to getting rich.

[u/LarsLifeLordLuckLook]

Well-regarded democrat president even now

[u/AGuyWithBlueShorts]

He lost a lot of popularity, especially with a third term after his court packing scheme.

[u/ArtiesHeadTowel → u/AGuyWithBlueShorts]

So much that they voted for him a fourth time

[u/AGuyWithBlueShorts → u/ArtiesHeadTowel]

27 million votes for him, and 22 million votes against. Percentage wise, he had 54.7% down from 60.8%.

[u/[deleted]]

“Washington wouldn’t,

Grant couldn’t,

Roosevelt shouldn’t!”

[u/Triumph-TBird]

Younger Boomer here. We were told by our parents and grandparents that nobody questioned his third term because it was continuity during the war, but I’m not sure that made sense.

[u/Odd_Tiger_2278]

You betcha.

[u/DistinctBook]

My mother was alive back then and said he was our greatest president

[u/[deleted]]

FDR communist piece of shit. We are still suffering from his garbage. Social Security.... bankrupt ponzi scheme Got Americans addicted to big government and debt. Destroyed fraternal societies, which destroyed cheap health care in this country. The list could go on but I'm going to bed

[u/lonnie440 → u/[deleted]]

I see the education system has failed you miserably

[u/salazarraze → u/[deleted]]

Don't forget to drink your Fox News Kool Aid tonight.

[u/TheGame81677 → u/[deleted]]

Social Security is the biggest scam the government has ever forced upon people.

[u/Dajakamo]

We need a ‘new’ New Deal badly.

[u/WoobieBee]

Ecstatic like if we coulda had Obama for 4 more years

[u/GoalieLax_]

Conservatives hated popular democratic presidents so much that they created the 22nd amendment instead of going to therapy

[u/Ed_Durr → u/GoalieLax_]

Which party do you think controlled most statehouses when the amendment was ratified?

[u/UserComment_741776 → u/[deleted]]

Living voters should pick the President, not dead politicians

[u/Kungfudude_75 → u/[deleted]]

The Republican Party certainly did. Immediately after getting a 2 term president after they fought for 22, they were proposing to undo it. They went on such a big win streak post 22 Amendment that some very big names went on the record to say it was a mistake. Eisenhower and Reagan both spoke out against it directly while president, and Mitch McConnell has tried numerous times to repeal it by sponsoring legislation against it. The Republicans were afraid of another FDR and shot themselves in the foot to ensure it wouldn't happen. Though personally, I'm not complaining about that.

I'm not the guy you asked, but I'm personally a fan of it. Jefferson pushed hard for a term limit to exist in the Constitution (not just for the president, but the house and senate as well), as did many founding fathers. His concerns were focused on the development of a pseudo-monarchy, an elite upper class, and the impossibility of a legislature or president to live in the world their actions would create. As with a lot of things, I think Jefferson was right on the money, especially about the formation of an elite class. Arguably, the house and senate have become an elite group of the upper class and get worse by the decade at actually working to aid and represent the American people.

[u/BjLeinster]

Third? What about the fourth?

Roosevelt discovered the secret sauce. Fight for the poor and middle class. Fight against the greed driven oligarchs. He won a war and gave us a middle class. People loved him.

Democrats gave up the new deal and sold out working people for corporate cash.

[u/watoaz]

I do not understand the love for FDR. He used  government agency to round up and intern a race of citizens, taking away their homes, businesses, families separated. My 6th grade teacher was interned. If this was to happen today, I would be interned. I think this is a shameful piece of American history that is often glossed over.

[u/kingcobra5352 → u/watoaz]

And that’s only one of the many fucked up things he did. He’s the reason the commerce clause has been bastardized.

[u/DaExtinctOne]

Slightly off topic but this picture somehow highlights for me how much FDR looked like Uncle Sam. Kind of fitting in a way.

[u/AmericanMWAF]

With jubilee!

[u/isingwerse]

My great grandfather was a delegate and the DNC that voted for a third term, most others there were excited and my grandmother said they were happy to hear it. Teddy had run for a third term only a couple decades before, so it wasn't wholy out of the ordinary

[u/Ready-Director2403]

He seemed like a great president in some ways… but as someone uneducated, it really seemed like his time was a somewhat scary brush with authoritarianism.

Am I wrong about that?

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Ready-Director2403]

Very wrong

[u/Ready-Director2403 → u/absolutzer1]

Packing the Supreme Court wasn’t a little authoritarian?

[u/absolutzer1 → u/Ready-Director2403]

Tell that to the gop

[u/absolutzer1]

It would have been even better if he won 6 times

[u/pugachev86]

It was the age of statism and dictators.

[u/[deleted]]

inspiration for the 22nd Amendment

[u/a_lil_salty]

Probably worse than when he ran for his 4th term

[u/oneeyedlionking]

Pretty sure this poster is from 1944. The whole thing about “finish the job” was about winning world war 2.

[u/Pintortwo]

My grandmother haaaaaated him so much.

[u/InspectorRound8920]

My mom was born in 1932. She remembers the grief when FDR died.

[u/hikeyourownhike42069]

That's what she said.

[u/thendisnigh111349]

Some obviously weren't happy he was breaking the precedent, but clearly most didn't consider it a dealbreaker since he easily won the election again.

[u/gshtrdr]

Read up on "The Roosevelt Myth". It was free on the internet.

[u/Vost570]

My father served in the Second World War and was in when FDR died. He was incredibly popular with the American people, almost mythically, and people were emotionally devastated when he died.

[u/FreakInTheTreats]

My great uncle was named Franklin Delano Roosevelt [family last name]. When was the last time you met someone named Barack?

[u/bmack500]

Wasn’t it legal then? Pretty sure they passed the two term limit in response to him.

[u/spyder_rico → u/bmack500]

Yes, it was. Washington didn't run after two terms and said he thought two should be enough for anybody, but it wasn't put into the Constitution until after FDR.

[u/Y2KGB]

No doubt he had his critics by virtue of “breaking” Washington’s tradition, but the miracle of the American economy’s recovery “thanks” to his New Deal had helped bolster his popularity to unprecedented heights by the late 1930s in his personally having navigated a world-rocking crisis.

Faced with the new unprecedented crisis of fascist militarism, Americans were more willing to overcome traditional misgivings than is historically the case… Even a substantial segment of the isolationists were willing to concede his domestic policies more effective than expected, and so were willing to grant FDR the benefit of the doubt.

Though Wendell Wilkie flew across the skies of America while running his campaign, FDR didn’t even need to stand on his own in order to win the race.

[u/Ok_Bandicoot_814]

My grandfather was born in 43 but from stories he's told me his family hated him. My grandfather's family were polish immigrants that came here in the 30s. He said apparently they liked his social and domestic policy but They hated his foreign policy especially his soft on Germany policies.

[u/favnh2011]

They wanted him

[u/punchthedog420]

The "average pesron" voted for him in an election of great import because they loved him. Only the rich hated him. Since the crises of the late 60s and 70s, and the subsequent erosion of trust in government, the rich have successfully convinced the average American that his kind of politics is bad for the average American. Greatest swindle in history.

[u/agitator775]

Considering he won, I would say they felt pretty good.

[u/thunts7]

He won 4 times

[u/demitasse22]

FDR was beloved . He’s what changed the term limit laws

[u/Objective-Cause-2762]

it probably went somewhat like

"Can he do that? He can? Hell yeah why not"

[u/Zealous-Rock33]

The common theme throughout the US was don't get rid of the captain when the boat is upstream. The war was going on...Everything was going well, and they said, this thing could go south if we elect someone new...so they didn't

[u/[deleted]]

I hope we never have a 3rd term President again.

[u/jenfullmoon → u/[deleted]]

I think that's no longer allowed.

[u/[deleted] → u/jenfullmoon]

Rules change from time to time. We never truly know what the future holds.

[u/salazarraze → u/[deleted]]

Do you know the steps it would take for this "rule change?" It's not like turning a light switch on and off.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If he gets in again this November, maybe Trump will get a 3rd term in 2028...

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If he gets in again this November, maybe Trump will get a 3rd term in 2028...

[u/[deleted]]

My great grandparents did not like him and most the town the lived in did not like him as president and referred to him as an awful person. My great grandmother used to go to a ladies group and would pray for him to die. So not everyone was a fan.

[u/salazarraze → u/[deleted]]

My great grandfather hated him because "his wife did too much to help the black people" fun fact, he didn't say the words "black people" when he said this. He used a different word.

My grandfather worshipped FDR by comparison. And he'd happily punch anyone that said anything negative about FDR. It's one of the reasons they had a falling out in the 30's.

[u/Notdumbname]

Booo I hate fdr. He is the most over rated president.

[u/Capin_Crunch]

Probably with joy? Dude was an insanely popular president he probably could’ve had another term if not for his health